"How are people making ends meet?"...

[Buddyblazon]

my girlfriend asked me today.

Many may have read this week my thread about our problems with Dell. Well...we ended up paying the whole laptop off with our "DO NOT TOUCH" savings. We had just worked up a decent cushion and this cut that cushion in more than half.

So she has been very upset. Literally in tears last night. "We just got to a point where we had a safety net...and now we've been set back months.".

All I could do was hold her and assure the life wasn't going to end tomorrow...and in an absolute worst case scenario (which we are NOT at...and far from)...we would always have enough money to pay our mortgage. As long as we have a roof over our heads, than we are better off the many unfortunate people not only in the world...but America.


But today, she was pissed.

"How the hell are people making ends meet? I see people all the time dropping tens of thousands of dollars a year on family vacations. Where are all these people getting this money? They're buying new cars. New and overpriced houses. They go out to dinner all the time. They buy new clothing all the time. And still they can pay all their bills. How do all these people have all this money."

I was quiet for a short bit. I wanted to let her calm down. Finally I responded with:

"That is a small number of people. And unfortunately getting smaller. A lot of those people you are complaining about are leveraging themselves out the ass. Running up credit card debt that they can't afford. Taking on mortgages that set them up for a fall. Buying new cars they don't need with credit lines that make them have to work more.

"People in the U.S. are more in debt now then they've ever been. Savings is lower (relatively speaking) then it's ever been. We live in a NOW culture...and these people aren't taught how to handle their money. What to do with it. What not to do with it. Where to put it."

Then I saw Lou Dobbs today. He re-enforced what I was saying. Wages are not keeping up with inflation. As he said it, "It's a war on the middle class.". Lou got pissed. And so did I.

I went on in my pep talk to my girl:

"Baby, we may not have a lot of money, but other than our modest mortgage (under 1000$ a month), our student loans (in deferement...we pay what we can), and our modest car payments...we don't have a lot of bad debt. We have almost no credit card debt (under 500$). We are in better shape than 90% of Americans. We are on the right track. We are not falling into the traps. Keep your chin up. We are not going to fail. We are too smart for that."



But at the same time, I'm thinking, "Please, oh PLEASE Lord, help us not lose our asses."

[Duer 157099]

1. Yeah, I wonder the same thing

But I'm convinced that it's the real estate market that's keeping most people alive. They are maxing out their equity, refinancing and living on the increased value of their homes.

That's my best guess.

You'd think it would have to end at some point, but as long as there are foreign investors who can and will buy up US property, the trend might continue until who knows when.

[FatDave]

28. I get at least one call a day from a mortgage company

Mortgage companies won't quit calling me and trying to get me to cash out my equity. It's tempting, but I realize I may want to sell this house someday. Plus I'm worried to death the real estate bubble's going to burst and leave me sitting on a house that's worth half of what I owe. It'll be an interesting day nationwide if that happens.

But with all the advertising you see from the mortgage companies, I don't doubt that there are a lot of people cashing out their equity. Troubling times.

[Warpy]

2. I spent the last 2 1/2 years trying to live on less than $900/month

when my mortgage took the first $560. I did manage, but I had to go off a lot of the medication that was keeping me stable, went into congestive heart failure, had to deal with that without medication, and blah blah blah. I don't own a credit card and I refused to take on any more debt, so I simply stopped buying anything unless I could find it in a thrift shop. The only thing I bought new was my food.

In other words, I know exactly where you're coming from. In the last 2 1/2 years, I got "poor" nailed down really well.

[Buddyblazon]

5. Oh no...

well...I'm young (33) and healthy. But I don't have health insurance. I try not to think about it. I have access to a Physicians Assitant who can help me and write me prescriptions if need be. But at least my girl is covered and I don't have to worry about her.

As for the credit cards. I hate them. But I'm trying to follow in my Sister and Brother-in-Law's footsteps. Real estate. They did fix and flips for years. Now do rentals. They own about 40 properties. And the only way to do that, is to build credit. Wrack 'em up. Pay 'em off. And it's working. My buying power is steadily going up.

But we ONLY use them when we have the cash. Ring it up on the card. Pay it off at the end of the month. We don't use them for vacations, or clothing, or unwise purchases. We pay our bills with them, then pay them off.

We are on our first fix and flip. Bought a house in Denver FAR below market value. About to refinance and take a SMALL portion of the value to finish the house. We have a budget for repairs. And I've spent a year in the house figuring out where to put that budget. Basically from my families advice, it's about putting lipstick on a pig. And being careful not to spend on things that won't give us a return.

And with the money taken out it should still leave us 20-30k in equity untouched (I told you we got it for a great price)...and this is in an old neighborhood with new massive developements a block away. The yuppies are moving in everyday.

So, our all our eggs are in that basket (starts biting fingernails). Barring the market or our neighborhood takes a major dive, we should be okay (fingers crossed).


I hope to turn it into a business.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

10. I guess everyone must become a businessperson in this society

Personally, I hate that kind of life. It seems now in this society that everyone must be tax savvy and be aware of every possible tax break, know how to invest in the stock market and diversify their portfolio, do real estate investment on the side and always pay attention to the market, worry about their IRA, the cash value of their life insurance, shop for the best health insurance, etc., etc., etc.

It seems to me that just mere survival within the middle class requires significant work and an awareness beyond just whatever skill you have or whatever profession you practice. You must also become an entrepreneur in your own finances just to keep up. You must not only work and do whatever thing in life you do for a living, but you must also put your money to work and manage it to the fullest possible extent on a continuing and relentless basis.

Sometimes I wish I could send myself back into simpler times in the past.

[Buddyblazon]

13. Yea...you're right....

but do it correctly...and you are your own boss...and you don't have to listen to some tool tell you what to do...or dangle an unobtainable carrot in front of your face.

And for me, I woke up won day and said I was sick and tired of being at the mercy of corporate America. My degree seems useless, as it is all a part of their system. Ring up massive loans so that you well take any small scraps they throw your way.

If I had to do it over again...I wouldn't have gone to college. I feel like it was a waste of time. At least for the reasons I went...so I could get a decent paying job...so I could buy a house...and a car...and go on vacations...and work even harder to pay them all off.

I WOULD go back to school for the only reason one should go...to increase one's knowledge.


Maybe I'll get flamed for this, but read the book Rich Dad-Poor Dad. It's got some great idea's about the way to think about our financial well being. I wouldn't call it the "bible". But it certainly did make me think a wwwwhhooooooollllleeee lot.

[sarcasmo]

38. Talked to a Emergency room Doctor on the way to the Airport last week.

DR Larry was telling me how it will be Medical bills/prescriptions that will make us all go broke in the future. He was saying how the DR's are so nervous about messing up that it's the 1/1000 that will put them out of business because of the medical malpractice lawsuits. He also agreed with me that the people who come in on fifteen different medications need to use common sense. Take one medication and you need to take another to cover the side effect of the first.
I drive cab for a living and this was by far the smartest person to ever be in my cab in the eight years I have drove.

[gizmo1979]

3. You have each other

and that sounds like it's mighty nice.Best thing nobody can take that away from you.Hang in there.

[Redstone]

4. An awful lot of people spend a lot of money they don't have to.

When I was kid, there was one television and one telephone and one radio and one record player in the house.

Now everybody has to have an individual cell phone, watch $90 worth of cable TV premium channels a month, have high-speed Internet (even if the only do things that work fine over a modem, like e-mail), and so on.

I remember a few years back someone from another country was quoted in an interview as saying, "how can these Americans claim to be poor? They have two televisions!"

Not that I'm saying that many Americans aren't having a damn tough time making a go of things. But you have to admit that many Americans simply buy too much stuff.

Redstone

[Buddyblazon]

6. Our countries slogan should be...

"He who dies with the most toys....wins."

[serryjw]

12. BB ...Until everyone learns how to enjoy and appreciate what

they have, not what they don't have it's a stuggle of keeping up with the Jones. Sounds like you have a great relationship which is worth more than another vacation. You're young, working on increasing your net worth,paying the bills...You are doing great.
Speaking as someone old enough to be your mother; Sacrifice NOW,it's easier than when you are in your 50's

[Buddyblazon]

15. That's the point we hit about a year ago....

we hit the point of committment. Do we buy the house? Do we buckle down? Attempt to make ourselves financially independent from the "cycle"?

Or do we continue to rent? Be happy with our lot in life? Spend that extra money on vacations? Fancy clothing? Fancy cars?


Well, we decided the former. We figured 4-5 years of intense focus on a goal could get us there. So we put ourselves on a strict budget. We starting eating at home. We bought the house (after my family said it was a major deal and would be a great springboard). We live below our means. When we get our paychecks, we pay ourselves first (put money in savings) THEN we pay our bills. We discuss every purchase for pulling the trigger. We don't do vacations. The one thing we did, was purchase a minivan so as to be able to move material to and from the property (and my car was on it's last leg)...but it was used...clean...but used. We added a trailer hitch and my friend game me a flat bed trailer. The vehicle will be used in as many properties until it kicks the bucket.

But we have been very disciplined. And in one year, we are already beginning to reap the rewards.

When either one of us gets down about working extra hours...or not buying those cool new shoes...the other one reminds us of where we were...and where we've come.

And we feel a little better.

[serryjw]

21. Don' forget the little niceties

Flowers are cheap, modest bottle of wine,candle lite dinner,romantic card ...and don't forget the lotions and potions for a romantic massage afterwords ( I have to live vicariously!)

Keep fun & joy in your life....that doesn't cost money. Remember its the journey not the destination. You'll look back on these years and be happy you did it together.

Namaste

[Buddyblazon]

22. We have date night once a week ...

usually rent a movie. We make a nice dinner together. And if we don't pass out from exhaution brought on from the rest of our lives...and little somethin' somethin'....nudge nudge wink wink nowhatimean? ;)

[shanti]

27. yup

at my job, with a couple of exceptions, all they talk about is what they bought or what they eat or are planning to eat. it disgusts me, but what can you do? :shrug: i don't socialize with any of them outside of work.

[Nabia2004]

7. Wow, my soon to be ex made the same statement last night...

almost word for word.

"How the hell are people making ends meet? I see people all the time dropping tens of thousands of dollars a year on family vacations. Where are all these people getting this money? They're buying new cars. New and overpriced houses. They go out to dinner all the time. They buy new clothing all the time. And still they can pay all their bills. How do all these people have all this money."

We refuse to play the credit card game and only have a mortgage. As it is, we are now living paycheck to paycheck. Our annual income actually went down last year, same hours but no more overtime pay.

[Buddyblazon]

19. The credit card game sucks...

but if you want to play the game...you have to play the game.

Use them as tools. Tools to increase your credit rating. My Sister and Brother-in-Law don't use any of their own money. They use the banks money. Then they take the profits the made FROM THE BANKS MONEY and put it away...gaining interest...making more money.

And they only way they can do that....is spotless credit.

You know what the credit card companies WANT you to do. They don't want you to pay on time (one of the WORST things you can do). They want you to pay the minimum every month (the SECOND worse thing you can do).


If you can only get to that point by jumping through their hoops...jump through them once...and use their own evil credit ratings to grab them by the short and curlies.


Now my Sister and Bro-in Law have banks coming to them. They tell the bank what their rate will be. They tell the bank how much the will give them.

They lose once in a while. But they've won so much, that it's cancelled that out. Because they've been wise.

And they're great big Democrats. My Nephews will grow up to be Democrats. And THIS is how we take back America. By having so much buying power that WE set the policy.

[spuddonna]

8. I know many family and friends who bought houses...

... and are now loaded into debt. They have first and second mortgages, and thousands in credit card debt.

But they STILL take vacations to Disneyworld, the beach, etc, and keep racking up the debt, refinancing over and over... Most are terrified they'll lose their jobs. It's an utter crap shoot, and they pray no one gets sick.

I also know many people that work in IT and are being laid off, again, for the third or fourth time since 2000. My hubby and I were lucky enough to save like crazy during the late 1990's and now are students (again). But the savings is running low, and our debt is running high. We're not even back to square one yet - graduating with a degree looking for jobs yet - and are loaded with debt. It's very scary...

I say that prayer all the time: "Please, oh PLEASE Lord, help us not lose our asses." :)

[Buddyblazon]

9. It's the new National prayer....

we should force all our children to say before class:

"Please, oh PLEASE Lord, help us not lose our asses."

That's a joke...please no flaming. ;)

[spuddonna]

11. "Verily as I walk thru the valley of debt, I fear no finance charge..."

"...for Citibank is at my side, with low APR financing!"
C-C-C-Charge it!! :7

[Neil Lisst]

14. retirees on small incomes are taking a beating

real estate boom adds to their property taxes while energy cost increases and pharm. costs eat their income up.

[Buddyblazon]

16. Are you a regular on the ESPN NBA boards?

I've been meaning to ask you. Because someone is posting over there with a link to your comic.

And they're definitely a Democrat.

[SoCalDem]

17. Two words

credit cards

two more

house refinance

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. BINGO

[Buddyblazon]

20. But those people aren't using those things correctly...

they are spending them on things that are gone tomorrow.

I'm telling you, if they played the game correctly, they wouldn't all be in debt up to their eyeballs.


But so many of them are financially ignorant. We don't have a lot of money. But I truly believe, putting it in the right place will get you ahead. In one year of monitoring where we put that extra money, we are seeing good returns. We've got a long way to go. But at least that money hasn't disappeared.

I have to believe this...or i'll curl up and die.

[electron_blue]

23. You keep paying attn to your money and you will probably be okay

from what I can tell, most of the people taking $10K vacations, buying $5K tv's and whatnot, technically make more $ than they need to meet expenses and they flat out blow the rest, rather than socking it away for a rainy day. On top of that, they are not censoring their buying habits at all.

I read that book, too, RDPD, and learned a lot. I'm not interested in going into real estate, which as far as I can tell, is what he is mainly pushing, but it really got me to thinking that hey, I am smart enough to take control of my finances.

Another book you & your SO might like is "Your money or your life", if you haven't read it already. It sounds exciting and dramatic, but it's really about household budgets and how to tell if you're on track for financial independence. You can take & leave what you want from that book. Check your library - it probably has it.

[Virginian]

43. We've had to cut back since I've been out of work...

We've always kept our cars for a while. We try to buy reliable cars and keep them for about 12 years, or until they become unreliable. My car is 15 years old and my husband's is 8 years old. When I get a job, I'll need to replace my car.
We maintain the vehicles so that they do last.

I try to buy for value not for price. If I buy too cheap, I will get cheap stuff. If it is worth buying, I want it to last a while.
I try to think of it as the cost per year of use if it is an item like a car, that will last for several years.
Other things may have a joy of use value, How long you enjoy playing with them until they become boring or obsolete. This could be measured in hours, days, weeks or years, depending on the item.
Before buying, think about how you would justify it with your accountant if you had one.

We visit out-of-town relatives several times a year. It gives us a change of scenery and a chance to touch base and become reconnected.
We don't do big vacations every year. No vacation has ever cost us over $4,000. We have been able to keep it under $1,000 many years. Vacations don't last longer than a week or we will get too used to them.
I'm looking around at the different deals I can get on a cruise next fall. If you decide what you want (cruise line, type of room) and then get the best price for it, it will be the same cruise regardless what you paid for it.

After viewing the global warming map, we could retire in the declining Florida market. It looks like possibly a good buyers market by then. We expect to have part time retirement jobs. People live longer if they stay active.

[Raine]

24. Credit cards

is what they live on but one day the bill is going to come do then there is going to be BIG problems in this country for those people.

[SeattleGirl]

25. Unfortunately, I'm not making ends meet at this time

I get paid by the billable hour, and my work load is referral-based. Referrals in my industry (voc rehab for worker's compensation cases) have taken a real nose dive over the past few months, so my income has also taken a nose dive. I am making about $1500 a month less than I used to. I'm behind in all my bills, (but trying to work things out with creditors). It's a week before payday, and I have nothing in my checking account. It totally sucks. Hopefully referrals will pick up, but I'm in such a hole right now that it will take some time to dig myself out. The one good thing I can say is that, unlike so very many people, I do have health insurance. There are meds I have to take every month, and if I didn't have insurance, I couldn't afford the meds.

[OneBlueSky]

26. here's how they do it . . .

they continually draw on the increasing equity in their homes . . . oblivious to the fact that it's largely an illusion that will come crashing down when the "real estate bubble" pops . . . which it seems to be getting ready to do . . .

http://www.financialsense.com.nyud.net:8090/Market/cpuplava/2006/images/0125.a.gif

[SoCalDem]

35. It amazes me when people do a re-fi to pay credit card debt

all they have done is turn unsecured debt into a 30 year secured debt...attached to the place they LIVE..

I have talked to people who said they were saving money and felt great to be "out from under" the CC debt, but within a few months, they were charging up a storm on their credit cards again..:eyes:

and if they had to sell their houses anytime soon, they would get a lot less because of the re-fi..

[PassingFair]

54. Credit Card debt is now SECURED debt.

Thanks to the new bankruptcy bill...

[SoCalDem]

59. Now it is, but it didn't used to be and people have been

using their houses as ATMs for too long..I am old enough to remember when credit cards were ONLY goven to credit-worthy people with incomes and credit ratings that warranted them.. They also did not routinely increase your credit limits..

We were the last people on the planet to do a refi in Feb 05. :).. We needed a roof & AC and a kitchen remodel.. We ended up closing most of our credit accounts when the refi guy told us we had over $100K in "available credit" on cards we rarely ever used.. One of them had a $20K limit with a zero balance, ..

Easy credit is killing America..

[NMMNG]

29. Two full-time jobs

Seven days a week.

[B Calm]

30. Regardless of what the cheap labor cons say, this economy sucks!

[AzDar]

31. You know when it gets reeeealllly scary? When you have two little boys

dependent upon you. Getting ahead is nearly impossible, then, even if you make decent dough.
They are EVERYTHING to me; and that is probably why I am scared to death for their futures.
Having children makes you hyper-aware that disaster is just an illness, or job-loss away these days.
And don't even get me started on the worrisome rising costs of college, or global warming, or the nut-job in the White House...

[MadHound]

32. Well, first off, the average household carries $9000.00 in CC debt.

And for the past couple of years, Americans have had a negative savings rate of 0.5%. It seems as though most Americans are following the lead of our government and are sacrificing their future in order to have all the cool toys now. And in both cases, it is a recipie for disaster. Any blip, any downturn in either one's personal economic means or the nation's economy spells disaster.

And that fall is coming, quickly. Such borrow and spend economics cannot be sustained forever. With energy prices rising, and our debt rising, inflation is going to start ravaging us in a major way. When this happens, people are going to start going under. And if China gets pissed at us, or merely uncomfortable, they will start selling dollars and really screw us all.

I would suggest that you pay off you CC debt immediately, followed by the car loan, student loan and mortage. I know that you can't possibly do all that at once, but the less bad debt you have, the better when the fall comes.

[Buddyblazon]

34. The CC debt is gone.

We HAD one card with 200$'s on it. After I wrote this, my GF paid it of last night. Came out of our savings, but after paying off the Dell, we just said screw it...and paid it off. We officially have no CC debt.

Don't have the money to pay off the car loan immediately. Don't have the money to pay off the student loan immediately. And why the hell would I pay off the mortgage? We plan on selling next summer. That would be a waste of money. We owe 117k on the house. IF I had 117k I certainly wouldn't spend it on paying off the house. I'd put it in some sort of interest barring account.

Unless you plan on living in the house until your death, paying off a mortgage is certainly NOT the wisest thing you can do with your money.

The example:
Brother A and B both buy identical houses right next to each other for 100k each...but worth 120k.

Brother A immediately starts paying extra money on his mortgage payments...planning to pay of the 30yr mort. in 20 years.

Brother B immediately takes out the remaining 20k in equity. Puts it in an interest barring account. And with the same extra amount his brother pays a month...he adds that to the account every month.

In 20 years. Brother A has paid of his house. That's what he has to show for his hard work.

In 20 years. Brother B still owes almost quite a bit on his house. However...20k invested, plus all the money each month placed into the same account has swelled WELL beyond what he still owes on his home. Now he can pay off the house, if he so chooses, and he have a large sum of money left over.



Like I said...paying off a mortgage as quick as you can is not always the best thing to do with your money. And unless you plan on retiring in the house, definitely NOT the best thing you can do with your money.

PLUS any interest paid on the house is tax deductable. Once it's paid off...no tax deduction.

[Tsiyu]

39. Real Estate is speculation

The entire freakin' economy is "specilation" right about now.

But I will bet that if the economy crashes, owning my property outright is going to be safer for my family than paying a mortgage. Owning my car outright feels safer to me than knowing a finance company or bank has the title.

I understand the concept of using others' money to make money especially via real estate but I personally have always felt better owning the property I lived in. Obviously, I will not get rich in real estate. But I won't get kicked off my property due to a financial downturn, either. My family lost some nice farmland and family homes during the Depression.

Investment decisions - like all life decisions - just depend on what you're comfortable with. Hope your partner cheers up. Sounds like you two are working hard and doing your best.

Relax and enjoy life, too. :hi:

[Buddyblazon]

42. Buddy to Buddy....

Boy...wish I had the money to own my house outright.

Maybe someday ;)

[MadHound]

41. I agree with you up to a point about the mortage

However, when crunch time hits the economy, which is looming just over the horizon, financial institutions can and will call in their debts, including mortages. If you can't come up with the needed money right then and there, they foreclose on the property and you are kicked to the curb. This happened a great deal in the Great Depression, and it ruined many a family.

And frankly, I think that land is the stablest long term investment one can make. Virtually all of the other finance markets are increasingly becoming nothing more than crap shoots, elaborate pump and dump games played the high rollers of Wall Street and the PPT. But hey, that's me:shrug: your mileage may vary.

[Buddyblazon]

44. I think if the economy turns as bad as it did in the Depression...

it still wouldn't be as bad on our citizens as it was back then.

[MadHound]

46. LOL, I'm hoping that it is as only as bad as the Great Depression

I fear that when the hammer falls, it is going to be much, much worse. We have bungled our way right into the path of the perfect economic storm, and I believe that soon we will be paying the price. A few pointers.

The Great Depression was the climax of the a period of time in US history known as the Gilded Age, where robber barons ruled the roost and called the shots in government, much like now. Except in this, the Second Gilded Age, we have surpassed the excesses of the first one by miles, in terms of the gap between the rich and the rest of us, in terms of the percentage of wealth owned by the rich, etc. In fact we passed those marks in the latter stages of the Clinton administration.

To further these troubles, we have a higher debt to income ration than ever before, a higher national debt, both in sheer numbers and as measured against our GDP. We have little left of our manufacturing base, which is the bedrock of any economy, and are instead relying on service sector jobs to keep our employment numbers afloat. Not only are service jobs poorer paying than the manufacturing sector, but they are also quite vunerable to downturns in the economy. When the economy tanks, well then people don't have money for services, which puts more people out of work, etc. etc. around that vicious circle we go. With a strong manufacturing sector, you can at least export what you make, even if your domestic markets go to hell.

And lastly, we are overly dependent on an aging energy source, oil. If you look at the other two recent merchantile empires that relied on a singular energy source, the Dutch and English, when a new energy paradigm was established, they quickly slid into irrelevance. This is where we find ourselve now, overly dependent on oil and facing an imminent crash.

Put all this together, and the picture quite frankly looks very grim indeed. We've pumped our economy to record heights in many areas, and what goes up must come down. And I doubt seriously it will be a soft landing.

I hope you're right, that our economic downturn is a mild one. But being a student of history and economics, I just don't think that is in the cards. I believe that when the crash comes, it is going to make the Great Depression look like the Roaring Twenties. As such, I'm preparing accordingly.

[Buddyblazon]

47. Okay...can't argue with you on any of those points.

P.S....saw your sig line. The Israelites is one of the greatest songs ever.

[MadHound]

49. LOL, sorry I'm such a cynical bummer

I really am a bright happy person most of the time. It is just when I contemplate the future that we're facing, and the ineptitude of the government that I become drastically cynical. Sometimes I think it would be better to drive an ice pick through my frontal lobes, then watch Faux, NASCAR, and chant U S A, be fat dumb and happy:shrug: But really, most of the time I'm a cheery person.

And yes, Israelites is a great song, as is most reggae/ska/mento. I ran across a great box set of early reggae classics, "This Is Reggae Music: The Golden Era 1960-1975 " that is an absolutely fabulous collections. Cuts that you just don't hear anymore anywhere. I highly recommend it if you've got the extra cash<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00064LOV4/102-6199571-6243354?v=glance&n=5174>

[Buddyblazon]

52. My summer job....and has been for a decade...

is Concert Production. Usually a P.A.. But this summer I'm going on the road and building stage for one-offs all around the country (maybe I should start a journal on my adventures around the country).

Do you live in KC? I grew up in Lawrence. My Sis and her family life right of the Plaza. My Mom just moved out there to help with the critters.

As far as being a pessimist. I have issues with depression. If I let the bad thoughts into my head, I basically become immobile. I try to be realistic, and the girl and I are talking about places to put the money to protect ourselves for just such a scenerio. The only one we could come up with is gold.

As far as the banks calling their loans in...we hope to be out of the house a year from June. We can do what we want with the profits...hoping to put it in another property. But perhaps a portion should go into a contingency plan in case the shit hits the fan.

As far as them calling the loans on the car and the student loans...they can have the car back...and unless they plan on putting everybody in the country in debtors prison (which would end up costing them more money)...I don't know how they could make everybody that has a student loan pay them completely off. Can't get blood from a stone. Of course we're talking worse case scenerio.

We talked about it. The biggest thing for us was to have enough money to move to another country and start over if the bottom dropped. My winter job is for a Canadian company and they constantly tell us we should move up there. And I constantly tell them that if "it" does happen, we'll be on our way. Everybody in the company has already offered us spare bedrooms while we find a place. I'll tell you what, the Canadians are really great people. And a dream to work for. Totally different approach about life.

[Buddyblazon]

36. Yea...our long time friends across the street...

(that's how I found our house)...have a daughter. They had a shotgun wedding. But they're certainly very greatful to have such a wonderful little daughter.

And it's a whole different ball game once you have kids. My heart goes out to you.

And all the things I talk about me and my girl doing (financiall), I can't imagine trying to do those things with a child. Throw all those plans of attack out, because at this point we don't make enough money to get ahead with a child.

My Sister has two little boys. They're doing well with all the properties and rent checks they receive. But even for them...it's tough.


And that is just not right. This administration talks about being pro-family. But their actions are just the opposite. They have not set up anything to help families truly get ahead. They have their little programs that are nothing but pittance. But they do nothing to truly make sure the middle class can get a leg up.

And I KNOW that's on purpose. They don't want the possibility of anybody else touching their little clique's money.

Greedy bastards.

[qanda]

33. If you haven't seen it

You should watch Oprah's Debt Diet on Fridays, you will find your answer. People are so overextended and in debt that it's not even funny.

[Generic Other]

37. I get the feeling we're all going to "lose our asses"

I fear a great Depression worse than our grandparents faced. We will have to learn how to survive again. Or die.

We haven't even come close to the worst yet. More of Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath" days ahead. I don't think our current government much cares whether we survive.

[Imagevision]

40. And Bush says that India's middle class will grow 300% this year!!

I guess there are many jobs americans refuse to do?? I think this president is selling out the people who put him in office and he's laughing his butt off in the process!!

[anarch]

45. I wonder about that every day

Sounds like you're doing better than I am, at least, if that makes you feel any better.

I'm constantly amazed that anyone can afford to buy new clothes, drive cars, go out to eat....

[Buddyblazon]

50. We can't afford to buy new clothes.

And if I go buy clothes...it's at Marshalls, Ross, or the thrift store (Sis taught me how to be a successful thrifter when I was 10). We don't go out to eat...and my old car...I inherited from my G'ma when she passed in '99. It was a '92 Ford Taurus...and the repairs on it the last few years were really costing me. So I bought a used car.

Personally I was pretty angry about having to buy another car. I hate shopping for cars...and cars are just about the worst place to put your money. But, I got an '01. 55k miles. Clean. Good price. As it is a minivan, it's been great for fixing up the house. And my paycheck job has me toting lots of product. So...it has become very useful.

Let me put this way. The least DISSATISFIED I've ever been with a car.

If I had a million bucks in the bank, I still don't think I'd waste my money on a NEW car.

[azmouse]

48. By a lot of standards I would be considered rich.

I'd rather not give exact numbers but I have enough money saved and invested and enough money coming in that I don't have to worry about paying my bills and having some extras. I don't take many vacations and they aren't expensive ones, my car is 5 yrs old, I don't have designer clothes, I don't have children to take care of and I seldom eat out. I still worry that if the economy fails my investments will be wiped out. That is why I'm trying to get my house paid off in the 3-5 yrs so that should the worst happen I'd still have roof over my head.
I often wonder how people making the average wage pay their bills. What little extras can they buy for themselves and their children? Do they have a nest egg to see them through tough times?

[bleedingheart]

51. The American People have been duped into becoming comfortable with Debt

It used to be when I was a kid that my parents wouldn't buy anything on credit. In fact credit cards were rather rarely used. People wrote checks or paid cash.

However people have swallowed the concept that "they can have it now". No one waits for anything anymore. If you want it...you can have it.

Young couples will borrow huge amounts to buy their "dream house" now...rather than buy what used to be called a "starter house"...They will then fill that house up with furniture on credit.

Now credit cards are useful if they are not misused but unfortunately they are misused very often.

[Buddyblazon]

56. Not us...

Home built in 1916. 1095 sq. ft. We live in a construction zone. The furniture is stuff inherited from my G'ma (she had cool taste) and matching mod couches and chairs from a great local 2nd hand store, Mod Livin'. We got the 1965 10' sectional with matching chair for 375$. Bought with cash. The lamps and tables are high end '60's stuff my Grandma kept spotless.I believe you can't find the cool stuff in a new furniture store anyway.


Starter house, inexpensive (but hip) furniture.

Maybe my Mom and Sis just raised me right.


But I know what you're saying. Most of my friends did exactly what you said. And now...they...are...fucked. I feel so bad for them. But they bought houses WAY outside their means. I worked on my credit...and looked for the right property (below market value in a good neighborhood...affordable) for two years.

They caught the bug, decided they wanted to buy a house, and within a month or two, bought properties too expensive because the weren't patient.

I try to keep focused on my stuff...but being a Democrat...I worry about my friends too. It is a major form of stress in my life.

[bleedingheart]

58. we live within our means as well

in fact we have been ridiculed by friends in the "big house" for being so risk adverse...I call it common sense...

oh well it will be interesting to see what happens when the bottom falls out...some people won't know how to live without a $4 latte and their garden tub...

[MazeRat7]

53. Stock Trading

Not day trading and not investing - those are different. Rather trading on news, earning reports, etc and making a few $$$ here and a few $$$ there. You can can open a brokerage account with as little as $2500. I could not live of what I make doing this, but it does help supplement my income. But like anything else, its a job albeit part-time. You have to do research and homework, but it does pay so long as you don't get greedy and don't let your emotions get involved.

MZr7

[Imagevision]

55. Are you better off now then say...5 years ago?? Gas alone has doubled

in price

[Buddyblazon]

57. I am better off...only because I saw this coming....

and I figured I better work on my resourcefulness.

My friends...not so lucky.