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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:45 PM
Original message
UK Secrecy Act Muffled Torture Docs Sent to DU'er - HERE

Dear All,

It's not the al-Jazeera Memo, but these are some more documents that the
UK Government are trying to supress with the threat of prosecution under
the Official Secrets Act. They detail our use of intelligence extracted
by torture, and legal advice the Foreign Office received on the subject,
and we need to get them out there as soon as possible before the
government act.

*If you could post them on your website, ASAP, it would be very much
appreciated.*

I have posted all the documents here




From

Calling All Bloggers: These Documents need publishing

By ringverse at Thu, 29/12/2005 - 18:45

Background:



The UK government has been quick to deny that we practice, or tolerate the practice of Torture. So it is perhaps not suprising that they are determined that you should not see the following documents:

http://users.pandora.be/quarsan/craig/telegrams.pdf

Craig Murray was the UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, untill his complaints and protest at the use of intelligence gained by torture got too much for Jack Straw and the Foreign Office, who set about attempting to unsuccessfully smear him, and to successfully remove him from office.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3750370.stm

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2005/04/timeline_of_cra.html

The Foreign Office has had the draft of Craig's book for clearance for over 3 months now, and they are doing everything they can to try and prevent him from publishing his side of the story. Their latest attempt to cover their own backs was to inform him, the night before Christmas Eve, that these two documents cannot be published, and that he was to return or destroy all copies immediately.

What are these documents?

The first document is a series of Telegrams that Craig sent to the Foreign Office, outlining his growing concern and disgust at our use of intelligence passed to the UK by the Uzbek security services.

The second document is a copy of legal advice the Foreign Office sought, to see if they were operating within the Law in accepting torture intelligence, and according to Michael Wood the FCO legal adviser; it is fine, as long as it is not used as evidence.

Faced with this heavy handed censorship by the FCO, in an attempt to cover up our use of and complicity in torture, Craig has decided to fight back, and has asked us all to publish this information, so it cannot be suppressed.
I am in discussion with the FCO over what I am and am not allowed to publish in my book. The FCO is seeking to gut the book of all evidence of complicity with the Uzbek regime.

With Bliar cornered on extraordinary rendition, they are particularly anxious to suppress all evidence of our complicity in obtaining intelligence from Uzbek torture.

In particular, they have demanded I do not publish the attached documents, and that I hand over all copies of them.

The obvious answer to this is to post these documents as widely on the web as possible. This is also potentially very valuable in establishing that I am not attempting to make money from these documents - you don't have to buy my book to see them, they are freely available. If you buy the book, you are only paying for the added value of my thoughts.

This will only work if we can get the very widely posted, including on sites in the US and elsewhere outside the UK … there is a chance that those who … post this stuff will get threatened under the Official Secrets Act.

In March 2003 I was summoned back to London from Tashkent specifically for a meeting at which I was told to stop protesting. I was told specifically that it was perfectly legal for us to obtain and to use intelligence from the Uzbek torture chambers.

After this meeting Sir Michael Wood, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's legal adviser, wrote to confirm this position. This minute from Michael Wood is perhaps the most important document that has become public about extraordinary rendition. It is irrefutable evidence of the government's use of torture material, and that I was attempting to stop it. It is no wonder that the government is trying to suppress this.



Compare and Contrast the government's public position on Torture, with the information they were recieving at the time from their own Ambassador, and the legal advice they were seeking.
We have archived a selection of government spin and lies on the use of torture in these 4 pages:
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/708
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/709
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/710
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/711

and you can listen to Jack Straw and Tony Blair deny what you read in these hitherto 'secret' documents here.
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/down/strawhust.mp3
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/down/blairrend.mp3

What you can do:
We have published the documents in full here, and ask that anyone who can will do the same.
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/715
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/714

If you could publish, host and link to these documents on your own webspace, then it will be harder for anybody to be prosecuted here in the UK, and ensure that they get maximum coverage.

Craig Murray stood up for what many of us believe, and it cost him his Job, his health, and his professional reputation. The least we can do his stand by him as he defies the UK government's attempts at censorship, and possible prosecution.

Craig's own post on the subject can be found here:
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2005/12/damning_d...

Thanks for your help.
Trackback URL for this post:


I attach our latest post on the subject.
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/716

Thanks very much for your help, if you are outside the UK, then you are
not threatened by the use of the Official Secrets Act. UK bloggers
should be aware that there is the potential that we might get
threatened, but as the documents are already appearing all over the
internet, we think it unlikely at this stage.

Cheers
Dan
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk


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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Secredy Act Muffled UK Torture Docs Sent to DU'er - HERE
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 01:29 PM by dutchdemocrat
Dear All,

It's not the al-Jazeera Memo, but these are some more documents that the
UK Government are trying to supress with the threat of prosecution under
the Official Secrets Act. They detail our use of intelligence extracted
by torture, and legal advice the Foreign Office received on the subject,
and we need to get them out there as soon as possible before the
government act.

*If you could post them on your website, ASAP, it would be very much
appreciated.*

I have posted all the documents here



From

Calling All Bloggers: These Documents need publishing

By ringverse at Thu, 29/12/2005 - 18:45

Background:
The UK government has been quick to deny that we practice, or tolerate the practice of Torture. So it is perhaps not suprising that they are determined that you should not see the following documents:
http://users.pandora.be/quarsan/craig/telegrams.pdf


Craig Murray was the UK ambassador to Uzbekistan, untill his complaints and protest at the use of intelligence gained by torture got too much for Jack Straw and the Foreign Office, who set about attempting to unsuccessfully smear him, and to successfully remove him from office.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3750370.stm
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2005/04/timeline_of_cra.html

The Foreign Office has had the draft of Craig's book for clearance for over 3 months now, and they are doing everything they can to try and prevent him from publishing his side of the story. Their latest attempt to cover their own backs was to inform him, the night before Christmas Eve, that these two documents cannot be published, and that he was to return or destroy all copies immediately.

What are these documents?
The first document is a series of Telegrams that Craig sent to the Foreign Office, outlining his growing concern and disgust at our use of intelligence passed to the UK by the Uzbek security services.

The second document is a copy of legal advice the Foreign Office sought, to see if they were operating within the Law in accepting torture intelligence, and according to Michael Wood the FCO legal adviser; it is fine, as long as it is not used as evidence.

Faced with this heavy handed censorship by the FCO, in an attempt to cover up our use of and complicity in torture, Craig has decided to fight back, and has asked us all to publish this information, so it cannot be suppressed.
I am in discussion with the FCO over what I am and am not allowed to publish in my book. The FCO is seeking to gut the book of all evidence of complicity with the Uzbek regime.

With Bliar cornered on extraordinary rendition, they are particularly anxious to suppress all evidence of our complicity in obtaining intelligence from Uzbek torture.

In particular, they have demanded I do not publish the attached documents, and that I hand over all copies of them.

The obvious answer to this is to post these documents as widely on the web as possible. This is also potentially very valuable in establishing that I am not attempting to make money from these documents - you don't have to buy my book to see them, they are freely available. If you buy the book, you are only paying for the added value of my thoughts.

This will only work if we can get the very widely posted, including on sites in the US and elsewhere outside the UK … there is a chance that those who … post this stuff will get threatened under the Official Secrets Act.

In March 2003 I was summoned back to London from Tashkent specifically for a meeting at which I was told to stop protesting. I was told specifically that it was perfectly legal for us to obtain and to use intelligence from the Uzbek torture chambers.

After this meeting Sir Michael Wood, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's legal adviser, wrote to confirm this position. This minute from Michael Wood is perhaps the most important document that has become public about extraordinary rendition. It is irrefutable evidence of the government's use of torture material, and that I was attempting to stop it. It is no wonder that the government is trying to suppress this.

Craig

Compare and Contrast the government's public position on Torture, with the information they were recieving at the time from their own Ambassador, and the legal advice they were seeking.
We have archived a selection of government spin and lies on the use of torture in these 4 pages:
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/708
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/709
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/710
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/711

and you can listen to Jack Straw and Tony Blair deny what you read in these hitherto 'secret' documents here.
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/down/strawhust.mp3
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/down/blairrend.mp3

What you can do:
We have published the documents in full here, and ask that anyone who can will do the same.
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/715
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/714

If you could publish, host and link to these documents on your own webspace, then it will be harder for anybody to be prosecuted here in the UK, and ensure that they get maximum coverage.

Craig Murray stood up for what many of us believe, and it cost him his Job, his health, and his professional reputation. The least we can do his stand by him as he defies the UK government's attempts at censorship, and possible prosecution.

Craig's own post on the subject can be found here:
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2005/12/damning_documen.html

Thanks for your help.
Trackback URL for this post:


I attach our latest post on the subject.
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/716

Thanks very much for your help, if you are outside the UK, then you are
not threatened by the use of the Official Secrets Act. UK bloggers
should be aware that there is the potential that we might get
threatened, but as the documents are already appearing all over the
internet, we think it unlikely at this stage.

Cheers
Dan
http://www.blairwatch.co.uk
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Pump this up and if people can get these on their sites fast
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 12:48 PM by dutchdemocrat
Litigation will be impossible.

I have also zipped them and put them up on a German server at


http://rapidshare.de/files/10048661/0PEJ.zip.html
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Done! n/t
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Bush and Blair's intelligence chickens are coming home to roost!
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 01:31 PM by rocknation
How long did they think they could keep dissing the CIA/NSA/Foreign Office/MI6 and get away with it? Best of all, I think they've only just BEGUN...pass the popcorn!

On edit: I've uploaded the PDF to my server. Come and get me, coppers! KICK AND RECOMMEND!

:popcorn:
rocknation
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. k&r sent to all my internet groups..getting out as soon as possible!n/t
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. K&R. Be sure to cross post at dKos; send to Raw Story and Brad Blog....
... and to Steve Clemons at The Washington Note, Josh Marshall, Laura Rozen, the Left Coaster and Talk Left.

Thank you.


Peace.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Markos has posted them and archived them ...
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Over top my diary
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 02:26 PM by dutchdemocrat
Which was up for an hour at Daily Kos and Booman.

The email was sent to all members of

http://www.wordofblog.net/redirect.php?id=400">

Empire Burlesque has been a member - we carry the banner on our front page and we were willing to post the documents if we got them. And Chris lives in the UK so it was a little dodgy legally.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Thank you! And, David Swanson has it up at AfterDowingStreet.org
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. i sent immediately to keith olberman..sorry i didnt post again till now
i was a bit sick...and had to get off..but i sent right away to keith...

and sent to many huge online blogs...and fla internet groups..and nj internet groups...so we got it out there lots right away!!

thanks everyone for getting this all over..its so important!!

fly
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. O.K. Just saw your post, flyarm, after...
posting that we send to him. Can I get his email address from you? Thanks.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. here you go
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 11:18 PM by stop the bleeding
[email protected]

I emailed him as well...
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Thanks! n/t
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. even though the Murray site has been taken down - did anyone get some
kind of screen shots or something to have as additional proof of this whole debacle???:shrug::shrug::shrug:

I am not the most internets savvy like dutchdemocrat is but I was thinking it would have been nice to have as much evidence as possible on this.

Thanks again for all of your work, the story has made it to the Independent Online in the UK by the time I posted this.

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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Done Done Done
I cross posted then Kos went front page - with his email.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Excellent. I've sent to numerous other bloggers, as well.
I think the documents are now broadly archived. Thank you again for moving on this quickly.

These heathens must be stopped and brought to trial.


Peace.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
54. And Olbermann! n/t
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
61. Thanks for these
I even sent it to Alex Jones. :shrug: Hopefully he'll post it on his website.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. wow i clicked on "here " for the docs..and immediately got booted off aol!
i mean immediately i got booted the second i clicked on "here"

wow these are hotttttttt!!

fly
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Use Mozilla Firefox n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. I just tried it through aol and I got there fine
That's kinda weird you got booted off. What did the message say after it kicked you out?
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
50. I just tried it through aol and I got logged off
I'll try again later. must be stuff, too hot to handle
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. k&r
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DistressedAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. kicker
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. K & R
:kick:
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. K&R, with great gratitude to dutchdemocrat, and all who share this
widely.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. excellent K&R
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Now posted at the progressive independant
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DELUSIONAL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. kick
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Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. God Bless You for posting them -- I'm not nearly as brave
I have family in homeland security but would never post confidential documents -- am too afraid of reprisal.

Thank you so much for being braver.
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. It's things like this that make me love the internet
Information finds a way. K&R&DL...save for posterity
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
24. k&r. Here's another link
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. that typo in the headline is killing me
I was in such a rush. Is there a moderator around to change that? I am locked out due to time limitations. I already flagged the error about a half an hour ago. It's driving me nuts.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Thanks to the Graham-Levin-Kyl amendment, TORTURE EVIDENCE IS NOW
ADMISSABLE AS EVIDENCE, INCLUDING EVIDENCE USED AGAINST THE PERSON TORTURED, EXPRESSLY ALLOWED BY THE US CONGRESS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

Oh, you thought the McCain legislation banned torture? That people shipped to Gitmo had some kind of legal recourse and could not just be dumped there incommunicado for years? Guess again. And McCain did nothing about it and MUST have known about it. This outrage was sneaked in by the back door and voted on when the House reconvened on Dec 26. It was part of the defense budget bill. No wonder Bush and Cheney appeared to accept the McCain "anti-torture" legislation - THEY KNEW THAT IT HAD BEEN GUTTED BY THE GRAHAM-LEVIN-KYL AMENDMENT, WHICH WAS ALMOST TOTALLY BLOCKED FROM THE US MEDIA.

Read more - we tried to stop this or at least raise awareness, now we can only try to expose what has happened and try to get it overturned as unconsitutional. After all, it is in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5665289
thread title (12/22 GD): US BILL up this week would ALLOW TORTURE for evidence, long-term holding

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2331932
thread (12/24/05 GD-P): McCain=Bush* shell game! TORTURE to be legalized on MONDAY!?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5681815
thread (12/24/05 GD): Do you know about the Graham-Levin-Kyl amendment? Torture legal on {Monday?}

http://www.slate.com/id/2132572/
The Get-Out-of-Torture-Free Card
Why is Congress banning torture but allowing the use of torture testimony?
By Emily Bazelon
Posted Thursday, Dec. 15, 2005, at 5:19 PM ET
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #26
62. Oh wow
It makes sense now.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
75. UPDATE: The Nation article tells WHAT'S NEXT after passage of the Graham-
Levin-Kyl amendment allowing evidence obtained by torture and much more:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060109/brecher
article | posted December 21, 2005 (web only)

Fixing the Torture Fix


Jeremy Brecher & Brendan Smith

Congress passed just before Christmas legislation allowing evidence obtained by torture to be used against Guantánamo captives and denying them the right to habeas corpus--the right to make the government justify their captivity before a court. Christopher Anders of the American Civil Liberties Union calls these provisions "horrific precedents" that are "counterproductive and against the rule of law." Michael Ratner, head of the Center for Constitutional Rights, calls it "a legal, political and moral outrage" and "the worst thing to happen legislatively in my history as a civil rights litigator."

This assault on the most venerable and universal of legal principles is attached to the same legislation as Senator John McCain's anti-torture measure. But it provides a legal incentive to torture and blocks the main vehicle that federal courts and human rights advocates have used to uncover and challenge prisoner abuse at Guantánamo.

This language fulfills one clear purpose: to prevent courts from hearing evidence of torture, abuse and unlawful activity. What it protects is not the security of Americans against terrorism but the security of high government officials against prosecution for violation of the Anti-Torture and War Crimes Acts.

But in today's climate of growing resistance to the abuse of presidential power--evidenced by the blocking of Patriot Act renewal, the firestorm of outrage at NSA domestic spying and the McCain anti-torture amendment itself--the Bush Administration's torture cover-up may be short-lived. Human rights groups and members of Congress are already gearing up for the next round.

(snip - much more)


A must-read. The infamous passage of the Graham-Levin-Kyl outrage is NOT the end.

I'll be posting another thread on this outrage, which is amazingly under the radar so far, some time in the following week. It needs exposure and pushing BIG TIME. Let me know if you want me to PM you with a link when I post on this topic again.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. DAMN!
from the time of the OP, to ONE HOUR later... The information is cross-posted all over the damn place.

(makes it awfully hard to keep the dirty secrets, doesn't it)
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
73. Jurist carried it today
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. Can you guys vote this up again?
We lost the votes when merging for a new headline.

Check out some of this data picked out at booman.

bbbbbuuubububububububut it had nothing to do with the oil.



Conspiracy theory my ASS. US kids are dying for oil like rooks in a game of death for profit.



If Karimov is on "our" side, then this war cannot be simply between the forces of good and evil.

It must be about more complex things, like securing the long-term US military presence in Uzbekistan.

I silently wept at the 11 September commemoration here. The right words on New York have all been said. But last week was also another anniversary – the US-led overthrow of Salvador Allende in Chile. The subsequent dictatorship killed, dare I say it, rather more people than died on September 11. Should we not remember them also, and learn from that too? I fear that we are heading

down the same path of US-sponsored dictatorship here.

It is ironic that the beneficiary is perhaps the most unreformed of the World's old communist leaders.


Uzbekistan's geo-strategic position is crucial. It has half the population of the whole of Central Asia.

It alone borders all the other states in a region which is

important to future Western oil and gas supplies.

It is the regional military power. That is why the US is here, and here to stay. Contractors at the US military bases are extending the design life of the buildings from ten to twenty five years.


Nobody can believe this level of aid –

more than US aid to all of West Africa

– is related to comparative developmental need as opposed to political support for Karimov.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. K&R. . . . .n/t
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Nothing like lining the pockets of
Karimov the boiler.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Lot's of good info in this....
They have recieved 1/2 Billion dollars from the USA a good potion going to the military to fight terrorism. That same money is being used to keep the flow of information flowing to the USA via torture and fake info.

The USA is rewarding this country for torture and supporting it's use.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. recommending
:)
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. Primer on the region.
As long-ruling leaders fell against a backdrop of large-scale demonstrations in Georgia, Ukraine, and Kyrgyzstan in 2003-05, Karimov soured on close cooperation with the West, adopting the status-quo view among authoritarian post-Soviet elites that the "color" revolutions were merely foreign-sponsored regime changes. This simmering sentiment came to a head in the wake of Andijon, where Uzbek security forces used massive force on 13 May to disperse a demonstration that followed an armed uprising in the city. The West called for an independent international investigation of eyewitness accounts that security forces perpetrated a massacre; Karimov refused, blaming the violence on religious extremists as government-run media depicted the Andijon uprising as an externally supported stab at regime change.

The fallout was stark. In late July, Uzbekistan gave the United States six months to vacate its air base in Karshi-Khanabad. Meanwhile, Uzbekistan drew closer to Russia and China, two countries that voiced unequivocal support for the official Uzbek version of events in Andijon. Karimov visited China in the immediate aftermath of Andijon, and Uzbekistan and China inked a $600 million oil joint venture. In September, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov visited Uzbekistan to observe the first-ever Russian-Uzbek joint military exercises. And in November, Karimov and Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a treaty providing for direct Russian military assistance in the event of "aggression" against Uzbekistan. Further bolstering Russian-Uzbek relations, Russia's Gazprom and LUKoil are planning to invest as much as $2 billion in Uzbekistan's energy sector, albeit over an extended period of time.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. US policy is not much focussed on democracy or freedom. It is about oil,

As seen from Tashkent, US policy is not much focussed on democracy or freedom. It is about oil, gas and hegemony.



Read it here

http://www.chris-floyd.com/telegrams

http://www.telegrams.chris-floyd.com/
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Here's another gem of a quote

I watched George Bush talk today of Iraq and "dismantling the apparatus of terror... removing the torture chambers and the rape rooms". Yet when it comes to the Karimov regime, systematic torture and rape appear to be treated as peccadilloes, not to affect the relationship and to be downplayed in international fora. Double standards? Yes.

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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Thanks for all your work on this. I think that the info has now been
"published"!
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Protagoras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
38. RE-K&R
Well the cat's out and clawing up the furniture...funny though, I wonder when the MSM is going to report on it...now that it's OUT THERE EVERYWHERE!
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Watch the RSS feed I put up here
It's a grabber that pulls from Google, yahoo, technorati and delicious all in one place.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/telegrams/feed/

It may take a minute to load sometimes but it does have a caching system
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Peter Frank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
39. K & R... n/t
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kicked and nominated! Thank You!
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. The blogs are picking this up FAST!
http://www.chris-floyd.com/telegrams/feed/

This memo is ripping through the net.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. Somebody email to Olbermann!
I still can't find his email address. I used to have it. Anyone?
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
43. You have got to be kidding me, I looked it over really quickly. First
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 08:28 PM by stop the bleeding
I assuming that all of this has been checked out as legit?

Second,

I am sorry in advance, but please let me know what the basics are here, I going to the site right now for some reading but it looks like there is a lot there - I will check back in second..

Thank you in advance DD





Give Mommy a Kiss....."


Wake up America time to IMPEACH!
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Follow it here in real time as it unfurls.
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 08:34 PM by dutchdemocrat
http://www.chris-floyd.com/telegrams/feed/

Between the RSS feeds and the documents on this link above (which appear further down) - this is the best place to find Data.

The UK Independent has picked it up now.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I have been reading like a banshee since the last posting and this is my
take so far...

Please forgive me if I am missing the boat here....
Anyway this is about how the UK and the US recieved intel from the Uzbek's via torture-correct?

Also this has to do with the ongoing relationships in that area of the world in regards to OIL-correct?

Did you guys send this to Conyers?????


Give Mommy a Kiss....."
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Think Joseph Wilson.
Think Joseph Wilson. Ambassador. Sees bullshit and takes the government to task on it.

He's the UK version.

He complained about the torture - Karimov of Uzbekistan has been known to boil people - and the Foreign Office told him to shut up. Then they fired him. Then he wrote a book. Then the Government used the draconian British Secrecy Act to stop him from publishing these letters. The people who gave them to me were one step from him - as all members of "I'll print the al Jazeera memo" got the email. I immediately went converted the PDF's and put them up here.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/telegrams

Now I have done a new page - http://www.chris-floyd.com/telegrams/feed/ - which collects RSS feeds from google news, Yahoo news, and technorati using keywords associated with the breaking story - as well as added in the documents and links to those who broke the story in the UK and asked bloggers overseas to saturate the blogs with the information so that the UK government can do nothing and no one will likely face prosecution.

This is WHY they want to wiretap US. It's pretty simple really. Secrets are harder to keep in the anonymous blogosphere. These are real. This is real.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Please be careful.. this is serious .. I am not joking around either..
American's owe people like you, Murray and Wilson and many many others a thousand thank you's.

:patriot:

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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
46. #15 from letter 3...OMG. Kick and Recommended
15. At the Khuderbegainov trial I met an old man from Andizhan. Two of his children had been tortured in front of him until he signed a confession on the family's links with Bin Laden. Tears were streaming down his face. I have no doubt they had as much connection with Bin Laden as I do. This is the standard of the Uzbek intelligence services.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. K&R. "Dear Gov. Dean -- The Bush, Blair Confess-or-Boil Policy" ...
... that's my New Year's eve letter to the Gov:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5711900&mesg_id=5712734

These guys make barbarians look warm and fuzzy ....


Peace.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. History of America 2001-2005
There are many more stories like that over the past four years. This one just got documented.
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il_lilac Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
57. Incredible
Had to tear myself away from these- I keep reading them over and over. And to imagine this is just a tip of this evil iceberg. :scared:

thank you for your courage Mr. Murray!
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Blue Velvet Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
59. Thanks for your bravery and diligence in disseminating all this important
info, dutchdemocrat!
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Welcome to DU Blue Velvet - crazy movie BTW
:toast: & DD is an awesome source of research.
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Blue Velvet Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #60
63. Thanks for the welcome, and yeah -
it is indeed quite the trippy flick. Then again, with all the surreal shite being unearthed and shared by good folks like DD, Lynch's twisted cinematic landscape is looking saner by the second!
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
64. the Uzbeki Secret Service 'extracts' information
From Chicken Yoghurt

Craig Murray, the former UK's ambassador to Uzbekistan, can tell you how the Uzbeki Secret Service 'extracts' information with the nod from DC and London...

Was it obtained from "the woman who was raped with a broken bottle in both vagina and anus"?

A woman so terribly violated that she "died after ten days of agony"?

Or was it obtained from the "old man suspended by wrist shackles from the ceiling while his children were beaten to a pulp before his eyes"?

But Saddam was a torturer right? These telegrams are extremely significant because they are high level and really point out how the utter illegality and how horrifically diabolical extraordinary renditions really are. Bliarco is in trouble. And the finger is also pointed at team Bush.
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. The Register
SNIP

Former ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray has harnessed the Internet in his long-running feud with the UK Government. A forthcoming book covering his time as ambassador is currently being blocked by the Foreign Office, which has demanded he remove references to two documents from the book and his web site. Murray has responded by publishing the documents in full there, and by encouraging bloggers to disseminate the documents as widely as possible.

The documents consist of a Foreign & Commonwealth Office legal opinion concerning evidence that may have been obtained by torture, and several letters sent by Murray to the FCO during his time as ambassador.

These letters state that the use of torture is routine in Uzbekistan, that US policy there (which the UK supports) is focussed on oil, gas and hegemony rather than democracy or freedom,

and that by knowingly receiving evidence obtained through torture the UK is in breach of the UN Convention on Torture. "With Tony Blair and Jack Straw cornered on extraordinary rendition," says Murray, "the UK Government is particularly anxious to suppress all evidence of our complicity in obtaining intelligence extracted by foreign torturers."



And indeed, in a July 2004 letter headed "Receipt of intelligence obtained under torture", he writes:

"It seems to me that there are degrees of complicity and guilt, but being at one or two removes does not make us blameless. There are other factors. Plainly it was a breach of Article 3 of the Convention for the coalition to deport detainees back here from Baghram, but it has been done. That seems plainly complicit."

SNIP

And the likes of Murray plus Internet plus "dissident blogs" (Murray's expression) add up to a nightmare for the system. We should however see what's happening as a development, rather than an entirely new phenomenon. Pre-Internet the http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/october/13/newsid_2532000/2532583.stm">Spycatcher affair illustrated the impossibility of suppressing inconvenient information when the opposition declined to play ball, and the existence of the Internet has simply made it faster and simpler for leakers and whistleblowers to make attempts to suppress troublesome documents utterly futile.

:toast: :smoke: :) :toast: :smoke: :)

SNIP

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/30/murray_lets_slip_blogs
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #65
68. spycatcher link has double http's coming up and is not linking to
story.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
66. I just tried to go to Craig Murray's site and access his page: 404 found
Edited on Fri Dec-30-05 10:03 AM by TheBaldyMan
probably a broken link but makes you wonder.

If anyone has accessed these pages could they make them availiable please.

btw is the US a signatory to the International accord on torture? One memo quotes article 2:
"No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of
war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked
as a justification of torture."


if the US has signed up to the accord it looks like Bush has broken both Federal and International law.
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. try this...
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. thnx n/t
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Follow the story here - and your welcome, but really thank dd
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
69. Coverage from Scoop (NZ):
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stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
72. Now the timesonline.co.uk is carrying the story
Former British envoy releases 'torture' documents on web

Story is gaining more and more traction
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
74. Uzbekistan
Man accused of running private Afghan jail had U.S. letter
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=769011

MI6 accused of using data gained by torture in Uzbek jails
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=898249

UK diplomat loses job after criticizing Uzbekistan regime
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=928039

Polls empty in Turkmenistan elections
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1084949

Kyrgyz (ex-USSR) public suspects U.S. diplomat of preparing revolution
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1104170

Bush Vows to End 'Tyranny in Our World' (puke alert)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1168465

Uzbekistan: Rights Group Threatened for Alleging Abuse
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1214047

Kyrgyz government HQ 'stormed'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1337657

Bush Administration Welcomes the Kyrgyz Revolution
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1353990

Quiet American behind tulip revolutionhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1362104

Uzbek militants seize jail, freeing hundreds of prisoners
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1468023

One killed as Uzbek soldiers fire on protestors
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1468927

Protesters Demand Government Resignation in Uzbekistan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1468390

'High death toll' in Uzbekistan (President says 30, witnesses say 200
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1471782

UZBEKISTAN: US-BACKED DICTATOR DROWNS UPRISING IN BLOOD
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1472816

Doctor Reports Seeing 500 Bodies as Violence Flares at Uzbek Border
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1473537

Thousands Try to Flee Uzbekistan Violence
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1473074

Uzbekistan 'on brink of revolution' as protests against President spread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1473154

Anger as US backs brutal regime
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1473236

Witnesses describe bloodbath outside Uzbek school
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1473856

Mayhem follows Uzbek massacre
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1475038

BBC: Uzbek troops seal off second town
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1475795

U.S. Ally Fires On Its People
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1472136

Refugees Put Uzbek Dead in Thousands
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1479083

US hardens stance on Uzbekistan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1476957

Uzbek opposition leader says 745 killed by troops (Mass grave)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1479018

'They Are Afraid of the People Now, We Taught Them a Lesson'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1480729

BBC: UN Calls For Uzbek Deaths Inquiry (100s in Refugee Camps)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1481560

Over One Million To Flee Uzbekistan For Kyrgyzstan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1480827

AP: Muslim Leader Announces Revolt in Uzbek Town
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1481490

'If the Troops Return, We Will Fight Them'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1483577

BUSH: REVOLUTIONS WILL COME TO CAUCASUS SOON (Nation Building coming)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1484299

Uzbekistan Unbound
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1484695

Forces 'May Have Killed 1,000 Uzbek Civilians'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1485136

US military limits Uzbek activity
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1486579

Uzbekistan Opposes Int'l Probe of Violence
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1486082

Washington Retains Strong Ties With Uzbekistan Despite Notorious Human Righ
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1487387

BBC: Defiant Uzbeks stage new protest
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1488587

Uzbekistan: Rights Defender in Andijan Arrested
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1494904

Uzbek Activist Says She Saw 500 Bodies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1495921

NATO Warns Uzbekistan on Crackdown
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1497682

Rights Group Alleges Uzbek Cover-Up
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1502547

Land Rovers 'used in Uzbek killings' (Guardian)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1503899

Amnesty slams U.S. on human rights
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1498523

U.S. warns Americans in Uzbekistan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1507903

U.S. senators call for inquiry into Uzbek killings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1509503

Bush wants full inquiry into Uzbek violence
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1512557

WP: Crackdown Muddies U.S.-Uzbek Relations (US Base in Uzbekistan)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1522185

US senators ask for UN action in Uzbekistan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1534018
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
76. BBC Radio did about 10 minutes on this this afternoon
on the 'PM' programme - though they haven't put anything on their news website. Audio is available here for the next 16 hours or so. The piece starts about 5 minutes into the broadcast. It includes an interview with Murray, and an ex-politician trying to make excuses for the government.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
77. Kick! Thank God for a few decent, honest men and women.
Imagine where we'd be without them.
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