How does it further the Muslim cause?

[Joe Fields]

To set fire to embassies, because they are upset over a cartoon ? A CARTOON, for crying out loud.

That's like pro life activists killing doctors who work at abortion clinics.

[KittyWampus]

1. Publishing those cartoons certainly helped advance the NeoCon Cause

though.

How helpful to get Europe riled up against Muslims in return.

Just when Iran is coming under the gun.

[dolgoruky]

2. Call me Mr cynical...

But me smells a conspiracy. Wouldn't be surprised if some of those islam preacher folks are in the pay of the CIA. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time. Mighty convenient for neo cons.

On a philosophical note, this whole mohammed cartoon business has dismayed me greatly. I'm an atheist and, I have to say, this has simply, once again, driven home the ridiculousness of all systems of belief based on faith.

It was a drawing, for fuck's sake!

[Joe Fields]

3. it's true. No one is really flame retardant.

But , not that it really matters anymore, I have to wonder if they are true Muslims, or just twisted folk who have perverted the writings of Islam.

No matter.The effect is still chaos.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. I suspect they are the Muslim variation of

followers of Falwell, Dobson, and Robertson.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

9. You nailed it

and while it is understandable (the American response to this thing) it is also not good for bringing about world peace or anything remotely resembling it.

We at DU have to skirt this dichotomy all the time and it is interesting to see how we are handling it today.

[file83]

17. It's almost like WAR by Intelligent Design...governments are behind all

of this. It's too perfectly timed, like an elegent symphony of propaganda, stimulation of social turmoil, reinforcments of stereotypes. I wonder who could make all this happen? Who has the resources, who has the technology, who has the experience, who has the political agenda...


I rest my case:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB177/

[Sinistrous]

5. The childish hissy fit by certain Muslims has tarnished their religion,

something the cartoons did not do. Personally, I am having a hard time thinking of Muslims as anything more than thugs and bullies. I hope that, in time, I will be able to convince myself that it is only the nutcase fringe members of Islam that are rioting and threatening.

I think it is long past time for those with their noses out of joint over these drawings to put on their big boy pants and suck it up.

Sinistrous

[liberalpragmatist]

18. Do you know any Muslims?

I'm certainly not condoning what's happening right now. There are lots of extremist Muslim thugs who are far more violent in general than the Christian Right.

But do the Christian Right represent Christianity as a whole any more than extremist Islam represents Islam as a whole? People who shout the loudest get the most attention. The overwhelming majority of Muslims, even if they are more conservative than Westerners, are NOT radical lunatic thugs.

Do you know any Muslims? I have a hard time seeing any of the Muslims I know as "thugs and bullies".

[DemonGoddess]

24. The Muslims that I know

are NOT thugs and bullies. You're absolutely right, the fringes of ANY religious group do not represent a religious group as a whole.

[Benbow]

19. How many Muslims do you know personally?

None, I bet.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

7. This isn't really about the cartoons

Can't we at least establish that?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joe Fields]

10. So true. Any excuse will do for those people who commit

such violent acts. They cannot be Muslims , anymore than Grover Norquist is a Christian.

[Igel]

11. On what basis?

Plausibility based on our cultural values and beliefs? Our suspicions?

If we want to establish some other motive--and I'd love to be able to do so--we really do need at least some evidence that isn't simply the philosphical parallel to the lint we find in our own navels.

As far as I can tell, it's about honor and respect: Insult prophet, insult Islam, insult Muslims. And the only way to show that Islam is tolerant is to do as it requires, especially if you're not Muslim.

[Ms. Clio]

12. This topic is really drawing it all out, like pus from a boil, I guess

Some of the posts just in this thread alone are simply astonishing to me.

"Muslim cause?" What the bloody fuck is that? There are a billion people from across the entire planet who practice Islam -- what deep dark "cause" do you think they all share?

[JeffR]

13. Exactly right!

If Tim McVeigh blows up a bulding, no-one talks about how it helps or hinders the "Christian cause". No one talked about Abramoff's crimes hurting the "Jewish cause".

This sort of thinking is just flat out silly.

[Karenina]

15. So many INSIST

upon looking at "the other" as a monolith. THOSE Muslims. THOSE blacks. THOSE Jews. THOSE Mexicans. THOSE of "you white folks" who haven't yet developed the capacity to understand how your emotions and fears are being MANIPULATED will be the death of us all...

Marie26 GOT IT after a bit of critical thinking...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x309030#320240

[JeffR]

16. "The sad thing is that all sides are so easily manipulated."

Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that thread.

[liberalpragmatist]

20. Well, it's not exactly a fair comparison...

... in that neither Timothy McVeigh nor Jack Abramoff claim to be acting in the name of religion.

But that said, your larger point is correct. We don't use the abortion bomber as our gauge of Christianity; we don't use extremist Jewish Israeli settlers as a fair representation of Judaism.

As I said in another post, those that get attention are the ones that shout the loudest.

[JeffR]

22. Thanks

Your comparisons were much better drawn than mine.

[Ms. Clio]

27. I've even seen posts that hint darkly of "cabals" etc.

Next we'll be reading about the Protocols of the Mullahs, or some such rot.

No different than bigots who believed JFK would take orders from the Pope.

[KittyWampus]

23. Mrs. Clio, there are indeed a great many Muslims who allow themselves

to whipped into a violent frenzy of anti-Western hatred that is only partly rooted in what goes on in Israel and the policies of the US.

Let's not ignore that.

There are extremist Fundies here in the US and even more extremist Fundies in the Middle East.

[Ms. Clio]

26. Where, exactly, are those places? I can't think of any

Please name some specific places where "violent frenzies of anti-Western hatred" routinely occur that are not directly or indirectly related to Israeli policies, U.S. imperialism or the remnants of European colonialism? And why is it necessary to conflate "anti-Western" with Muslim?

[KittyWampus]

28. Please, you know the Saudi's do what they can to keep their citizens

pissed at the US and Israel just so the people don't throw their corrupt, immoral asses out.

And the clerics calling for jihad are about power for themselves, not principle.

Just as outlawing abortion would rob the GOP and the Far Right ministers of their best way to agitate, so the Saudis & radical clerics would be devastated if they couldn't find a reason to channel hatred towards the West.

This is true of all Fundamentalists now, in the past and in the future. To deny this is intellectually dishonest.

[Ms. Clio]

29. Please, do you really think the Saudis are anything but U.S. puppets?

The Saudi monarchy was manufactured and installed by the United States and Great Britain in the 1920s. Of course the Saudis use radical clerics to help them keep their people in line. It's what subject kings have been doing for empires for millenia. I think one of the Herods spent a lot of time in Rome with one or two emperors, while back home the Pharisees and Saducees helped impose order on the populace.

The problem is that too many here seem to believe this is really just about religion, and not about economics and politics, too, or even mostly.

[Kire]

14. How does it hurt?

They're at the bottom of the barrell as it is anyway, clutching at straws, all they have left...things can't get any worse for them. What can anybody possibly do to make them want to stop?

[meganmonkey]

21. Do you think there is one universal "Muslim cause"?

You are talking about almost 2 billion people. I would imagine there are all sorts of people ina population that size :shrug:

[enigma000]

25. Just probing your enemy

A riot here, a fire here - see what the European people and governments do. Freak out? Stand firm? Appease or surrender? Just probing.

And it teaches the Europeans a lesson: look the other way when it comes to Islam. Next time there is an honour killing, or a prominent Islamic leader gives a hate-speech, the news will be less inclined to report it.

Just thinking. No offense intended.

[abex]

30. can you expect the victimized to behave rationally at all times?