Am I the only one who wouldn't vote Obama?

[The Cleaner]

It's not that I don't like Obama, or don't respect him. I do; But for me, personally, I value experience and seniority over any kind of Hollywood-like "Rock Star" status.

Look at Biden. Look at Kerry. Both have had tremendous experience in Congress, on critical foreign intelligence committees, and as we know Kerry was in fact a war hero (sorry you Swift Boat freeps but it's the damn truth). When you hear them talk about what's going on today, they know what the hell they're talking about because they've been there.

One more point I'd like to make. We all know *somebody* who recently made it to the Presidency with little experience and we all know how that worked out. Course he's a repug, but the point is that experience does count for something. Of course Obama is no Bush, don't get me wrong but still I am hesitant.

Am I the only one thinking this way?

[Mass]

1. Are you speaking about the primary or a GE?

In a primary, he is not my first choice, because of experience and also because he has not yet said what he would be supporting. (he is not far from it though).

However, in a general election, I would definitively and happily support him.

[crispini]

2. Does state and local experience not count for anything?

The man has a long history of experience as an activist and legislator in his own state, it's not like he was born yesterday and magically became a Senator. I just don't understand this whole "no experience" ding that's running around.

[kestrel91316]

33. It's about the no NATIONAL or INTERNATIONAL experience.

If he gets the nomination, he gets my vote. Period.

Signed, kestrel the yellow dog dem

[brentblack]

3. No...

Personally, I am still reeling from Evan Bayh's decision not to run. I would quit my job to work for his campaign.


Abraham Lincoln only had two years of Congressional experience when he was elected, but those were MUCH different times - regardless of any parallels you could create.

Obama has a bright future, but I will not be in his camp this time around - unless he is the final nominee. Then what choice do I have?

[abluelady]

4. Does "Experience" Really Matter????

I recently heard Doris Kearns Goodwin, the historian, speak. She was asked a similar type of question. Her response was experience isn't as important, in her opinion, as brains. She didn't say it quite like that, but that was what she was saying. She talked about good presidents in history without lots of "experience" who were extremely smart men and knew how to deal with life in general. They brought exceptional people aboard and they did well. That made lots more sense to me than experience. I think methods of problem solving go a long way. Sure experience and brains can work well, but I wouldn't not vote for someone without experience if he had brains. Obama seems like he's in the right mindset. I do wish he were a bit older. Personally, I value life experience more than government experience.

[bullwinkle428]

5. Lincoln's only experience was with the Illinois State Legislature

as well (as an elected representative)...do you feel like he was hampered by his relative "lack of a resume"?

[katsy]

6. I would vote for him in a heart beat.

He's gifted with the ability to speak with people, articulate the most complex plainly... that gives me confidence in his ability to lead.

[UTUSN]

7. If somebody is the Democratic NOMINEE, you wouldn't vote for him or her?

Besides, Shrub's PATHETIC record as a governor in a WEAK GOVERNOR state was not a disqualifier, was it.

[Lord Byron]

8. Obama's a media darling candidate

I wouldn't vote for him at this stage. Maybe he'll change. His positions are so bland. He seems just bland. I posted a book review of "The Audacity of Hope" (stupidest title I've ever heard) last week. I used to like him. Not anymore.

[Kerrytravelers]

42. What is so stupid about the title "The Audacity of Hope"?

:shrug:

[pocoloco]

9. What good is all the experience in the world

if you would make a completely political decision to vote for war knowing first hand the death and destruction to surely follow. I cannot believe the decision was stupidity and not political.

[youthere]

10. In the primary he's definitely not my first choice..

but if he gets the nomination I would cast my vote for him.

[BOSSHOG]

11. Isn't it a little early to make such a decision?

No one but an incumbment running for president has ever had "experience" as President. Obama meets all the congressional qualification wickets. There are many republican neanderthals with decades of experience. Ted bundy had experience. Jack the Ripper had experience. Tom Delay had experience. To your question:

I'm fixated on General Clark, however if Obama gets the dem nomination I'm voting for him in a heartbeat, sending him money, shouting down racist conservative dumbasses who hate in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Bridget Burke]

12. Well, support whom you like in the Primaries.

But--do you mean that you'd go Republican if he was our nominee?

If so, you aren't the only one thinking this way. There are lots of Republicans out there.

[Clark2008]

45. What if you think the Dem nominee is as bad as a Republican

on many of your core issues?

I'm not speaking about Obama here - I'd vote for him in a general election - but there are a couple running who I don't want to see anywhere NEAR the button.

[Bridget Burke]

69. I don't know of any possible Dem nominee who is as bad as a Republican.

But I'm a Democrat!

[cosmik debris]

13. Definitely my third or fourth choice in the primaries

But I vote a straight ticket in the general erection.

[Nite Owl]

14. I haven't decided who

I will vote for yet but his lack of experience isn't what is making me hold back on him, I just want to know more about whomever is running. He has the ability to communicate which does outway the lack of experience. No matter what they seem to know if it can't be communicated to the American people nothing gets done. He gives that optimistic message of hope which we all need now and that is important too. I like Edwards and Clark too but I'm waiting to see who is really in and to hear more from them about what their actual positions will be on Iraq and on health care.

[TZ]

15. charisma is as important sad to say..

Do you really think Clinton would have gotten elected if he hadn't been so charismatic? I don't. Too many other issues came up with him. I also think that if you are worried about experience I think that he has just as much in some ways as Clinton did. He is also very intelligent as well so thats also a plus
Part of what got Bush elected vs. Kerry had to do with personality. Kerry was never my choice for a candidate even though obviously I voted for him vs. Bush. Likability and electability need to be taken into account (which is why I don't want to see Hilary get the nomination..she is qualified but is not at all electable because of all her baggage). In terms of personality/charisma for the general election I would say either Obama or John Edwards would probably do the best in that category.

[underpants]

16. DAMMIT! there goes his unanimous election

I knew that had to be one out there

[Henryman]

28. 285,000,000 to 1

Yes, you're the only one!
Are you serious?
The primaries are not being held today.

[Demeter]

17. No, You Aren't Alone

My advice is: get body armor!

[xultar]

18. If experience was all that...Bush would have been a great President...

Someone posted that yesterday.

[MemphisTiger]

19. Let's remember that Obama had been in the state

legislature in Illinois since 96. Bush was also and he was also Governor, which looks good on the resume of a presidential candidate. The biggest factor was that his last name was Bush.

Biden and Kerry flat out don't inspire many people, and senator have a lousy track record in the quest for the POTUS. I see Obama as the next Bill Clinton ushering in the new generation of the Democratic party.

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. LOL...yeah, 'experience' and seniority (Bush & Cheney) has done so much for this country!

Really, experience means diddly squat. Bush was Governor of Texas for 6 years and Cheney has been in politics since the stone age. They've done a wonderful job, haven't they?:eyes:

[xultar]

24. I hate to say it but I see the whole experience argument as an excuse.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. Why Do You Hate To Say That?

It's correct. Why do you think you should hate telling the truth?

He's had more gov't experience that Reagan, Carter, Clinton, Silverspoon, and as much as Kennedy and Truman.

It's simply a canard. Don't hate to say it! Shout it out!
The Professor

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. I Think There's Resentment But For Another Reason

Folks have a hard time believing someone as urbane, hip, charming, and witty as Barack can be smart too...

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. That's exactly what it is.

an excuse.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. And They Both Voted For The IWR

"Look at Biden. Look at Kerry. Both have had tremendous experience in Congress, on critical foreign intelligence committees."

[ProfessorGAC]

38. Bullseye!

Good catch, DSB.
The Professor

[Maiden England]

22. No - I would prefer someone with international gravitas

We need someone to help us restore our name abroad.

But then I'm firmly in the Clark camp.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. And They Both Voted For The IWR

"Look at Biden. Look at Kerry. Both have had tremendous experience in Congress, on critical foreign intelligence committees."

[generaldemocrat]

25. If it's Obama vs. Edwards / Biden / Kerry / Clinton / Dodd

I'd vote Obama.

Only Clark and Gore are higher on my list.

[k_jerome]

26. you wouldn't vote for him in the general? nt.

[GOTV]

27. My guess is you're one of the few who have already reached a decision. n/t

[LostinVA]

29. No -- I will if I have to, but I don't want to

[aikoaiko]

30. I don't know enough to answer whether or not I would vote for OB

All I know is that he has consistenly been opposed to the war in Iraq, and has a dismal record on gun control/liberty issues.

[gollygee]

31. Well when it comes down to it, in the general election I'll vote straight party Dem

but I don't know if he's the one I'll choose for the primary. Right now, I think Edwards because I think maybe he has the best chance. But I'll probably change my mind a few times before then.

I don't think lack of experience is Bush's problem. He would make a terrible president no matter how much experience he had because he has issues with not even understanding the structure of our government - he thinks the presidency has a greater level of powers than the judiciary or legislative branches. And I think there are plenty of people with limited experience (relatively speaking - they're all in government after all) who would make very good presidents.

[kestrel91316]

32. If he gets the nomination, he gets my vote. Period.

[wisteria]

35. I love your post and I agree with you. We have a "uniter not a divider"

in the White House who had little experience and appeared personable and look where we are.
I personally support Senator Kerry for the very reasons you mentioned, experience and leadership. I feel the situation in the Middle East is too dangerous to just let someone inexperienced try to handle.
As you have said, Biden even has the expertise we need to straighten out the Middle East.
Obama may be the candidate that makes us wish for harmony, but for our safety sake and our standing in the world, we need real qualified people right now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Experience And Wisdom Are Not Synonymous

If they were, Kerry and Biden wouldn't have voted for The IWR

[ripple]

76. We have NOT had a uniter

and I think most people knew that when he took office. There is no comparison between him and Obama. None.

Experience is important, but so is the ability to critically analyze situations. The president doesn't exist in a vaccuum. Instead, he has the world's best advisors at his disposal. I think Obama has both the intellect and the sensibility to gather as much information as possible, before making crucial decisions that might affect our nation's future. I'll take that over a rigid idealogue any day. No that I would necessarily place Kerry in the latter category, either. My biggest objection to Kerry is that I can't imagine any scenario in which he would get more votes than he did in 2004. And we sure as hell can't afford to lose.

[Tesha]

36. Yuo're not the only one. Call me back when he's more experienced.

A few years as a state rep and less than two years as a Senator?
Call me back when he has more like ten years experience at the
statewide or Federal level.

Tesha

[MzNov]

39. I would not vote for him and it has nothing to do with experience.

the job of President is an on-going learning experience for anyone, as the world changes that person must have great abilities to lead this country.

but even tho I love how he speaks, conducts himself, and inspires.... he's a protege of LIEberman, and a "centrist," whatever the hell that is. I know it's early, but I haven't heard his position on so many other issues. and I just think he is not a progressive. This country needs a progressive IMHO.

He should have a very high position, even VP, in 08, along with a more liberal president.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. Please

The only thing him and Lieberman have in common is that they are senators...


If he's this "centrist" why did he have the sense to oppose the Iraq War before he knew if it was popular or not.

[MzNov]

43. he was one of the first to support Lieberman in the bogus

CT primary. Please yourself.

lots of centrists oppose the war. That's not my point. It's the only thing we've heard from him so far. even Hillary opposes the Iraq war, now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Lots Of Senators Supported Him Because He Was The Incumbent..

"even Hillary opposes the Iraq war, now."

Good for her but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube...

Obama opposed the war from the gitgo...

[MzNov]

52. and I love him for that

[geek tragedy]

54. Lieberman was endorsed by the state

convention and was the incumbent.

Is Barbara Boxer a centrist too? Lol.

[MzNov]

57. doesn't mean the Senators had to kiss his sleazy butt.

and Boxer traveled to CT to do it. But I'm not talking about Boxer here. She's pissed off a large large bunch of CA'ians by supporting the asshat.

[in_cog_ni_to]

59. So you would prefer to be the MINORITY in the Senate? sheesh. n/t

[MzNov]

64. You think LIEBERMAN is with us?

Lieberman is loyal alright. TO BUSH

[in_cog_ni_to]

71. On IRAQ. He votes with the Dems on most other issues. n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

51. LOL! a PROTEGE of Lieberman??? Oh my. NO HE'S NOT!

He's a protege of Paul Simon of Illinois! One of the BEST Senators to ever serve in the Senate!
<snip>
Simon died in Springfield, Illinois following heart surgery at the age of 75 in 2003. Just four days before, despite being hospitalized and awaiting surgery, he had endorsed Howard Dean's 2004 presidential bid in a telephone conference call he conducted from his hospital bed. He was also an early supporter of current Illinois Senator Barack Obama, having made a television commercial that later aired in downstate Illinois after his death. His endorsement was used effectively and was considered a major reason for Obama's surprise victory in the Democratic primary.<snip>

Obama loved Paul Simon and they were great friends. Obama is not a protege of Lieberman's. They are complete OPPOSITES on the political spectrum fercryingoutloud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Simon_(politician)

[MzNov]

55. He WAS. BIG RED FLAG.

protege not really the correct word to use I guess. Supporter probably better. Gave HoJo standing ovation along with the other senators. Give me a break.

[in_cog_ni_to]

58. Oh please. You'd rather Lieberman be a repuke and give the Majority to the RWers?

unfortunately, ALL Senators are in the difficult position of having to kiss Lieberman's ass so we can hold onto the Majority. Does that make them ALL a protege of Lieberman's? I think you need to do some Googling on Obama. Learn something about him. He's not what you think.

[MzNov]

62. I don't need to google anybody.

I stated my reasons for not supporting Obama's nomination. And there lies the problem! Senators kissing peoples' asses for political reasons. You think kissing Lieberman's ass is going to make him vote with the Dem's??? You haven't been paying attention.

[in_cog_ni_to]

70. I've been paying attention longer than you've been born. If that's the excuse you wish to use, so be

it.:eyes:

Lieberman will vote with Dems on most issue...Iraq aside. I DETEST Lieberman now, but I'm sure as hell not willing to sacrifice our Majority by losing him to the repukes. Lieberman's day will come in '08. The Dems will win by a HUGE margin and he will be inconsequential. We only have to put up with his crap for 2 years and then he can switch parties.

[MzNov]

86. OK..... whatever

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're wrooooonnnnnnnnngggg


I feel like I just got carded.

[Kerrytravelers]

44. Is there a vote today I am unaware of?

I'd like to see who all has chosen to run and what they have to say for themselves fist. Then I'll make my decision.

[theHandpuppet]

48. No, you're not the only one

Too slick and his quick ambitions set off my alarm bells. I don't vote for "star quality" or celebrity.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. How's He's Slick?

I can remember a recent Democratic president who was derided as "slick"...

[Clark2008]

56. That's the way I think about Edwards.

Obama, not so much. I think the media is trying to make him into a "rock star," but I don't find that he seeks it out like Edwards does.

[ripple]

75. I feel the same way about Edwards

I know it's his experience as a trial lawyer coming through, but he comes across as something of a salesman to me. I like him and agree with him on a lot of the issues, but he doesn't strike me as particularly sincere when he speaks. I think he is sincere, he just has a polished speaking style that seems contrived at times.

I hate the "rock star" label the media has tagged on Obama. It only serves to trivialize his candidacy. I suspect that's where a lot of the "he lacks substance", "what has he done", "but where does he stand on the issues" comments are coming from. Obama has a solid record as a legislator and there is plenty of information available to find out where he stands on most every issue.
I wish more people would get past their cynicism about all of the media attention and actually look at what he has to offer as a candidate.

[redqueen]

49. In the primaries I will NOT support Obama.

He voted for the Onan Trade Bill. MAJOR red flag.

He'd probably support FTAA and CAFTA too.

We can do MUCH better. (e.g. Edwards, Gore, Clark)

[geek tragedy]

53. He opposed CAFTA.

http://obama.senate.gov/news/050630-why_i_oppose_cafta/index.html

I wish the people who don't like Obama would at least get their facts straight. If I have to see him described as voting for the Bankruptcy Bill or for CAFTA one more time . . .

[redqueen]

67. Did you miss the word "probably"?

Thanks for showing me his statement. However, I'll ask that you please pardon me if I don't exactly trust him on these issues. I'd like to see him square his support for the Oman Free Trade Agreement with his opposition to CAFTA.

And yes, I am aware of the confusion regarding the Bankruptcy Bill.

If I might be so bold as to make a humble request, please don't assume that people don't have their facts straight... because sometimes it might be a case of misreading, as it happens to be this time. It's unnecessarily divisive. Thanks for your consideration & no offense intended.

[geek tragedy]

83. No offense intended. It's just that there are

a lot of misconceptions about his record out there. A lot of people seem to suspect that he has some sort of DINO or DLC voting record, which he clearly doesn't.

[redqueen]

85. Yes, that's true.

I think it's only because we were so badly burned by Bill when he was in office that we're so suspicious. We'll see how he votes over the next year. That should help.

[Matariki]

60. I would love to see Obama in the VP slot first

In fact I would love this ticket the best: Gore/Obama

I can hope, can't I.

PS - we need more facts on this board about candidates and less fuzzy, feeling oriented opinion on candidates. There was a great post listing all the bills Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored in his two years in the Senate - it really demonstrates his caliber. We need posts like that, not posts like the misinformation up-thread about Obama being a Lieberman protege' - that's just a fuzzy pejorative. I'd rather we discussed al the potential candidates ACTUAL voting records, public works etc - stuff based in FACT not FEELING.

pss - isn't about time 'Obama' got added to the DU spellcheck?

[Blue_In_AK]

61. I'm not enthralled yet

but I would no doubt vote for him if he's our candidate - which I hope he isn't.

[Orsino]

63. If he's the alternative to McCain? Maybe.

Obama's not my first choice, either. But whether or not I'd vote for him depends upon who else is in the race at that point. Like, whether or not there's a Republican candidate.

[Tom Rinaldo]

65. Obama won't rise above my third choice

Clark and Gore are my first two choice, and I am a very informed voter regarding both of those two men. My support for both of them is deeply rooted and it would take a major earthquake to dislodge either from my top two slots. Obama will need to compete with Richardson and maybe even Dodd for my third slot. I like a lot of Obama's instincts. I love his life story, I think it gives him a powerful perspective on being an American. I like Obama on many issues but sometimes I think he goes soft on me with details right when it really matters. There will be plenty of time for that to all be fleshed out in the build up to the Prmaries though.

But I want someone with hands on experience dealing with the complexities of the world right now. Some one who has vision, yes, but also a wealth of knowledge built up from really having been there through it for a long time. I am not looking for the hot shot bright promising new surgeon recently out of med school to do an organ transpllant for America right now. I want someone who has been there doing that for decades. If it was my body, I would want someone with a long track record of having handled those types of complicated procedures before, in the flesh. It may not be my body, but it's my country and I am worried enough to want a seasoned pro to operate on it.

[WI_DEM]

66. I don't care if you don't vote for him in the primary, but if he's the nominee

I would hope you would vote for him against any of the prospective Republicans.

[redqueen]

68. Damn straight I would. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

72. I wouldn't vote for him. He lost me when he voted to confirm Rice. eom

[SmokingJacket]

73. All the experience in the world wouldn't make Bush a good leader.

And look at Don Rumsfeld -- tons of experience, but he still sucked at his job. Or Cheney??

Being a decent human can go a lot further than experience. Clinton only had experience as governor, none at all in Washington. It meant he wasn't all dug in with the system.

[Ganja Ninja]

74. You're not alone.

What do we really know about Obama? He's a gifted public speaker but after that what?

For me the biggest task facing the next Democratic president is weeding out the right wing insurgents in the government and military. The next biggest task will be converting our economy over to an environmentally sustainable one. I can't see a centrist appeaser like Hillary or Obama being able to get those jobs done.

My ideal ticket would be Gore/Clark.

[mdmc]

77. You are the only one who would vote GOP over Obama

imho

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. I'm Not Sure That's What He Meant...

eom

[mdmc]

79. ok

:thumbsup:

[WI_DEM]

80. but he certainly hasn't posted anything more when people have

asked him what he means to indicate that he only means in the primaries.

[sammythecat]

81. You made reference

to Bush and his lack of experience, while also saying Bush is no Obama.

Both are, or were, relatively inexperienced. The differences are:
Obama is a smart man, Bush is not.
Obama is a good man, Bush is not.
Obama is a Democrat, Bush is not.

I'll cast my vote for the smartest and the 'goodest' Democrat out there when the time comes.

[FlaGranny]

82. I'll vote for Spongebob Squarepants

if he wins the Democratic nomination.

[Nimrod2005]

84. Yes, you are the only one.....nt