Vehicles Used In Iraq Car Bombings Were Stolen In The US

[Jcrowley]

US car theft rings probed for ties to Iraq bombings
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff  |  October 2, 2005

WASHINGTON -- The FBI's counterterrorism unit has launched a broad investigation of US-based theft rings after discovering that some of the vehicles used in deadly car bombings in Iraq, including attacks that killed US troops and Iraqi civilians, were probably stolen in the United States, according to senior government officials.

Inspector John E. Lewis, deputy assistant director of the FBI for counterterrorism, told the Globe that the investigation hasn't yielded any evidence that the vehicles were stolen specifically for car bombings. But there is evidence, he said, that the cars were smuggled from the United States as part of a widespread criminal network that includes terrorists and insurgents.

Cracking the car theft rings and tracing the cars could help identify the leaders of insurgent forces in Iraq and shut down at least one of the means they use to attack the US-led coalition and the Iraqi government, the officials said.

The inquiry began after coalition troops raided a bomb-making factory in Fallujah last November and found a sport utility vehicle registered in Texas that was being prepared for a bombing mission.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2005/10/02/us_car_theft_rings_probed_for_ties_to_iraq_bombings/

Everyday the US Corporate Media bombards America with the “huge spike in violence” that inevitably means that Iraq is descending into civil war. We’re told there are two choices, it’s a civil war, or its “al Qaeda” - but there is a third option the corporate media refuses to utter.

Ever heard of the age-old strategy “Divide and Conquer”? Is it possible that there are outside forces working this strategy in Iraq today? Perhaps rogue elements inside some government(s) would like to conquer Iraq for the oil, permanent bases, strategic position, etc.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. Right. With smuggled cars from texas.

:eyes:

[Jcrowley]

2. How did this get past

that oh so tight Homeland Security? Any ideas?

Investigators believe the cars were stolen by local car thieves in US cities, then smuggled to waiting ships at ports in Los Angeles, Seattle, and Houston, among other cities. From there they are shipped to black-market dealers all over the world, including in places like Syria where foreign militants fighting in Iraq are thought to be transiting from countries across the region and where they gain critical logistical support.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. The same way drugs do.

Swallowed or shoved up the rectum.

[Jcrowley]

6. Cars are big

hard to hide inside even large orafici'

Maybe there are other elements at work here?

:shrug:

Nah probably best to ignore the entire historical record and just call it 'civil war'.

‘UNKNOWN AMERICANS’ ARE PROVOKING CIVIL WAR IN IRAQ - By Robert Fisk
The Independent UK 04/29/06

The Americans, my interlocutor suspected, are trying to provoke an Iraqi civil war so that Sunni Muslim insurgents spend their energies killing their Shia co-religionists rather than soldiers of the Western occupation forces… “One young Iraqi man told us that he was trained by the Americans as a policeman in Baghdad and he spent 70 per cent of his time learning to drive and 30 per cent in weapons training. They said to him: ‘Come back in a week.’ When he went back, they gave him a mobile phone and told him to drive into a crowded area near a mosque and phone them. He waited in the car but couldn’t get the right mobile signal. So he got out of the car to where he received a better signal. Then his car blew up.”

Impossible, I think to myself. But then I remember how many times Iraqis in Baghdad have told me similar stories.

“There was another man, trained by the Americans for the police. He too was given a mobile and told to drive to an area where there was a crowd - maybe a protest - and to call them and tell them what was happening. Again, his new mobile was not working. So he went to a landline phone and called the Americans and told them: ‘Here I am, in the place you sent me and I can tell you what’s happening here.’ And at that moment there was a big explosion in his car.”

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12885.htm

[MrPrax]

9. I wonder...

if this gang is related to the other gang spray painting 'Blood Wanted' in areas of 'sectarian' strife...

Scrawled in what appears to be spray paint on the mosque compound wall is the phrase "blood wanted," which Iraqis say has appeared on many structures in areas of heavy Shiite-Sunni sectarian conflict throughout Baghdad.

The phrase is a warning to the sect that is the minority in the neighborhood, Sunnis in the case of the region around the Mustafa mosque in Hurriyah, that they will be killed if they return.

SJ Mercury

In English? So sad for Sunnis that can't find a translator... :eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. The article doesn't say it was in English.

For all we know it could have been in Klingon.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Indeed.

Well, I guess that proves it, then.

[Cha]

31. Cars are big. That was my

first thought..how can you smuggle cars?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. Easy.

1) Steal car
2) Put car on tramp freigher
3) Deliver to destination
4) Get paid.

[Cha]

39. After you chop it around

a little?

[formercia]

55. 2 to a shipping container. n/t

[Joanne98]

50. Isn't that interesting..

[bobbolink]

54. You'd think that by now I"d be expecting this. Still, it broadsided me.

No matter how suspicious I am of the US Junta, it's always much worse than I thought.

Goddes, how are we ever going to get rid of them???

[Tesha]

4. Our borders are *SO SECURE* that a gnat couldn't get through!

Our borders are *SO SECURE* that a gnat couldn't get through!
Well, unless it's hiding in a stolen fully-loaded Mercedes-
Benz 600 SEL with the full leather package, electronic stability
control, and adaptive cruise control. In that case, the gnat
and a bunch of his buddies would have no trouble slipping past
the ever-watchful eyes of our port monitors.

Tesha

[nomo]

5. Getting stolen cars out is one thing

I'm just glad there's no way they can bring a dirty bomb *in*.

[htuttle]

7. LOL! You forgot the sarcasm tag!

Right?

They aren't even really checking for dirty bombs coming in.

[Horse with no Name]

23. Perhaps this is why

we are trying to outsource our ports to terrorist countries in the middeast?
Makes it a lot easier to keep the insurgency going.
Well that and all of the explosives that keep going missing.

[malaise]

62. Halliburton anyone?

What about those private contractors? I smell Negroponte in those ashes.

[Javaman]

8. Not hard to believe...

When I lived out in L.A. there were several car theft rings busted.

What was happening was, several of these rings would steal the big SUVs, drive them across the border within an hour or 2 of the theft. The drug dealers would then use them as transport cars. Carrying big loads of drugs across the more remote parts of the border.

Dozens of these stolen cars have been found abandoned in the desert.

So taking this to another level. What stretch of the imagination would it be to have these same car thieves sell their stolen goods to a third party? Nothing. And to put them aboard cargo ships for transport takes nothing. Remember they wouldn't be shipping them out of the U.S. but out of Mexico. And believe me, there are more than several hundred officials down there that would gladly look the other way or on the payroll of the drug runners. This would be just a side business for them.

on edit: and the crappier looking the car the easier it would be. Any late model shiny bling would catch anyones eye.

[Ian David]

11. "Hello, this is On-Star. How may I help you?"

"Hello, this is On-Star. How may I help you?"


"Hello?"

"Hello, This is On-Star?"

"What is this?"

"This is the On-Star operator, how can I help you?"

"Why are you speaking to me?"

"You must have pushed the On-Star button."



"I was trying to change the time on the clock. It keeps blinking 12:00, and it is driving me mad!"

"I can give you the number for General Motors Customer Service, if you like."

"No, I don't have time. I am going to blow this car up so I can have seventy two virgins."

"Will you be requiring roadside assistance after you blow-up the car, sir?"

"I will be dead and in the hands of Allah."

"Very good, Sir. Should I notify the police after detonation?"

"That will not be necessary. I will be blowing-up the police."

"Will you be requiring turn-by-turn directions to the police station?"

"No, I can see it from here."

"Then shall we terminate your On-Star service contract?"

"Well, it's not really my service, since we stole this car from America. How much does this On-Star cost?"

"You're currently paying $19.95 per month."

"Oh, so expensive! Yes, cancel it after I depart for Paradise."

"Very well, Sir. Is there anything else I can do for you today?"

"Maybe. Do you know how to change the station on the radio? I don't want the last voice I hear before meeting Allah to be this Rush Limbaugh asshole..."

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. Very funny. n/t

[originalpckelly]

17. If it weren't about something so sad...

this wouldn't be the second funniest thing I have ever read in my life.

[Ian David]

21. The dark comedy of American Consumerism's role in international tragedy. n/t

[shadowknows69]

12. Ok raise your hands if you think we might be behind some of the car bombs

Tin foil off now. There seems to be, thank god, a serious lack of US casualties when one of these suckers go off. The primary harm to our men comes from set bombs but if the insurgents have such an overabundance of these vehicles why don't they hit our troops with them more often. Again thank god they don't but it raises my paranoia hackles to full mast.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. That depends...

...on whether you think there's method to the maddness of the US strategy in Iraq, or just unadulterated madness. I tend to believe the latter.

If I could see any possible reason why the US might want to foment a religious war in Iraq, then this idea might make some sense to me. I don't know of any convincing argument for why the US would *want* the current situation. All of the arguments people prevent for this position seem to boil down to:

1) Foment sectarian civil war in Iraq
2) ???
3) Profit!

[Jcrowley]

20. Method and madness

And the methods aren't always so tidy nor well thought out. But of course these are age old strategies that can then bring about any number of unforeseen cosequences.

Remember when the British SAS shot at police in Basra, in what many Iraqis speculated was an intended staged car bombing followed by a "spike in violence" in Iraq. This is but another example of underlying strategy which serves to keep the country mired in turmoil to justify the continued presence of occupational forces.

This isn't a speculative conspiracy, it's demonstrable by the very words and deeds of the megalomaniacs now running the blood-soaked show in Iraq.

In November 2002 the Asian Times reported on the creation of P2OG, a Pentagon operation aimed at, "stimulating reactions" among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction, meaning it would prod terrorist cells into action, thus exposing them to "quick-response" attacks by US forces."

Rather than the traditional intelligence model of infiltration and sting operations, the Pentagon is now willing to allow terrorist atrocities to take place and indeed provoke them into being unleashed.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. I still don't get it...

This is but another example of underlying strategy which serves to keep the country mired in turmoil to justify the continued presence of occupational forces.

But why? Why do we want to stay there? What objective can be achieved, other than keeping Bush from having to admit that he was wrong? The presence of our troops in Iraq is not benefitting us in any way. It is already too dangerous to keep bases supplied, and this situation will only deteriorate as the civil war gets worse. Iraq is no longer a suitable location for permanent American military bases. The turmoil has all but stopped oil exports. The oil may be there, but there's no way to get to it with a goddamn civil war going on right on top of it. What's left of the infrastructure to get it out of the country is probably going to get destroyed sooner rather than later. The war is harming Bush, the Republican Party, and their agenda in a very serious way. Making it worse doesn't fix any of that, just as it doesn't get them the oil or the bases.


In November 2002 the Asian Times reported on the creation of P2OG, a Pentagon operation aimed at, "stimulating reactions" among terrorists and states possessing weapons of mass destruction, meaning it would prod terrorist cells into action, thus exposing them to "quick-response" attacks by US forces."

The various groups in Iraq are doing a very very good job of provoking each other on their own. There is already more violence there than we can conceivably deal with. The US forces demonstrably aren't able to give a "quick-response" or any other kind of response to these attacks, hence the abandonment of large portions of the country to militias.

Basically, what I would like someone to explain to me is why having your entire military (which you'd rather be using to invade Iran) bogged down in a civl war that is already bordering on ethnic cleansing, in a place with no functioning economy and no chance of recovery for decades is somehow good. Pouring gasoline on the fire in Iraq does not get us the oil, or the bases, or anything else of value.

Iraq is broken. Our continued presence there is of no benefit to us or anybody or anything else except Bush's ego.

[spillthebeans]

65. Stopping the oil was the plan

It may harm Bush Co, but is someone using this to their advantage?

If you have to much oil, the price goes down. Oil is sold in $ and to keep the dollar alive you have to keep the price of oil high.
They are building giant bases in Iraq and they want to control the region, break Iraq up into three parts etc
http://www.daanspeak.com/IranAttackBernardLewisMap.html

BTW we are talking about draft



If you are dealing with crazy people, rational thinking is not the best option

[NuttyFluffers]

74. the problem is you are thinking logically and compassionately...

change that thinking to irrationally and selfishly then it would make complete sense. basically, stop seeing it out of your eyes, see it out of theirs.

remember, first priority is to *know thine enemy*. when you begin to do a sympathetic understanding of how your enemy's psyche work, prediction becomes easier. hence why so many seemingly crazy bushco things have been rapidly figured out by others.

...and yes, i know it's scary "to go there." walking through the heart of darkness never was a stroll through the park. you can do it, though; just put aside your sanity and let it flow...

[CJCRANE]

94. It may be harming Americans in general

but Bush-Cheney do not see anything wrong with what's happening. They always blame the media for not showing the "good news". Bush-Cheney would be happy to "stay the course" indefinitely - don't forget they think this is a "generational war". It's no skin off their nose.

[ronnie624]

26. Some U.S. Americans are unwilling to accept responsibility

for the activities of their own government, and are capable of concocting any number of excuses for avoiding responsibility. When all else fails, simply ignore the trends clearly revealed by an examination of the historical record, and haul out the "conspiracy theory" meme.

Cognitive dissonance can be a rather ugly phenomenon.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

27. I accept...

...that the United States and the US Government are the ones responsible for the situation in Iraq. We destroyed that country. We have killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. We have created a base for terrorists that is many times better than Afghanistan. We have bombed, tortured, raped, and mismanaged ourselves and all Iraqis into this situation.

But that doesn't mean I'm going to take the position, which to me is nonsensical, that fomenting a religious/tribal civil war in Iraq is somehow a good idea for the US. In another post in this thread I talked about why I think the arguments that this is somehow about permanent US bases or oil don't make a lot of sense. Those are the two I see cited most frequently to explain why the US would want to do this.

There are a lot of good reasons to believe that fomenting war in Iraq is actually a very very bad idea for US interests, not the least of which is the possibility of a regional war which might cut off oil exports and be utterly disastrous for the world economy, including America. It also has the possibility of greatly strengthening Iran, something that we nor our Arab allies want to see.

I have refrained from referring to anybody as a conspiracy theorist in this thread. I am simply asking for someone to present an argument that in any way supports the conclusion that propogating this war is good for anybody, Bush included.

[windbreeze]

58. ok, how about this then

The arms dealers, weapons makers, bush cronies, oil companies are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams...isn't that reason enough?...

In the last day or so, I have read about his most recent speeches in the ME....disparaging to the point that even the Arabs said his trip was disappointing and accomplished nothing..but he can't have the war in Iraq turn out to have been the wrong thing to do, because invading WAS his decision and if it was wrong, that most likely qualifies him to become the worst presisnot to hold office...that DOES matter to him...where most of us would just as soon admit the mistake and leave...

The deaths that have happened are nothing but numbers to Bush....waging this war, isn't costing him a damned thing, personally or otherwise...We cannot justify or understand Bush's reality, because we do NOT live there....and unfortunately, his group also had control of the other branches of the gov't...which meant that there were no checks or balances in place...and you have to CARE....THEY DON'T....

He's already making plans to escape and let us deal with the aftermath of the disaster this country's going to be, once he leaves...I just hope we're up for it...

windbreeze

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

89. Point by point.

The arms dealers, weapons makers, bush cronies, oil companies are getting rich beyond their wildest dreams...isn't that reason enough?...

To destroy your Presidential legacy and political party, to ruin a political coalition that took thirty years to build and controlled all three branches of the federal government entirely? No. There were plenty of easier ways they could have enriched their allies without doing this.


In the last day or so, I have read about his most recent speeches in the ME....disparaging to the point that even the Arabs said his trip was disappointing and accomplished nothing..but he can't have the war in Iraq turn out to have been the wrong thing to do, because invading WAS his decision and if it was wrong, that most likely qualifies him to become the worst presisnot to hold office...that DOES matter to him...where most of us would just as soon admit the mistake and leave...

I've got no argument with that, but I don't really see how it's relevant to the point I was trying to make, or the point you're trying to make.


The deaths that have happened are nothing but numbers to Bush....waging this war, isn't costing him a damned thing, personally or otherwise...We cannot justify or understand Bush's reality, because we do NOT live there....and unfortunately, his group also had control of the other branches of the gov't...which meant that there were no checks or balances in place...and you have to CARE....THEY DON'T....

I doubt they're even numbers to him. I doubt he could even name the number of coalition casualties from the war on any given day.

Actually... that'd be an interesting question for somebody in the WH press corps to ask.

"Mr. President, how many American troops have been killed in Iraq as of today?"

But I'm getting off subject. You're right, they don't care. And they never will. Ever.


He's already making plans to escape and let us deal with the aftermath of the disaster this country's going to be, once he leaves...I just hope we're up for it...

I fear we aren't up to it. Anyway, back to your thesis regarding the war being an excuse for profiteering, I think it's wrong, because it ignores the critical factors of neoconservative ideology (which has nothing to do with enriching arms merchants) and oil (in which case it makes no sense to foment a civil war on top of the resource you're trying to control.)

I think people just need to stop with the wild speculation and own up to the fact that yes, our government is actually that stupid.

[ronnie624]

92. For what reason

do you believe the Bush administration (not Bush) would invade Iraq in the first place, if not to establish a long term or permanent military presence there? Why would they build a vast, multi-billion dollar communication system? Why would they build a huge, fortress-like embassy?

Numerous members of the administration have stated, unequivocally, that the "war on terror" (the invasion of the Middle East) is a decades-long endeavor. Surely, the neocon's obvious and adamant intentions of remaining there, are motive enough for conducting false-flag operations - a strategy that has been utilized countless times throughout history, including by the U.S. government.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

93. Of course they expected to stay there.

They obviously wanted to put bases there. My point is that you can't maintain a military infrastructure like that in the middle of an ongoing civil war. In fact, the civil war in Iraq pretty demonstrably did exactly the opposite. Hence, the idea that the administration is clandestinely car bombing people in order to foment a civil war makes no sense.

are motive enough for conducting false-flag operations - a strategy that has been utilized countless times throughout history, including by the U.S. government.

I've never argued that the administration wouldn't do it if they thought it would benefit them. My point is that it demonstrably does not benefit them. The civil war in Iraq is going to make it almost physicall impossible, and very politically unpalatable to have permanent bases there.

[ronnie624]

95. If everyone in Iraq was getting along,

the installed dictatorship was working perfectly, and the Iraqi people were all busy working to rebuild their country, there would be no need for the U.S. to remain there. Yet, our military is, in fact, there to remain permanently.

Your premise requires one to believe, that the purpose of the invasion was to eliminate WMD, and free the Iraqi people from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein - a reeking pile of bullshit that was debunked long ago. Your premise also requires one to believe, that the policies of the Bush administration, are guided by logic and rational thought, which is obviously, not the case.

The administration has stated repeatedly, that our military will remain, until the "mission" is complete.

Not only do you continue to avoid the motive for conducting false-flag operations, you are also ignoring a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests that the U.S. and British governments are quite possibly doing just that.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

98. No.

If everyone in Iraq was getting along, torship was working perfectly, and the Iraqi people were all busy working to rebuild their country, there would be no need for the U.S. to remain there. Yet, our military is, in fact, there to remain permanently.

Their goal all along was to set up a stable regime that was friendly to the United States - one that would give them oil, and let them have bases there. There's no reason to believe a stable Iraqi regime and permanent US bases are incompatible. They had that in Saudi Arabia. They thought they could have it in Iraq. They were wrong.


Your premise requires one to believe, that the purpose of the invasion was to eliminate WMD, and free the Iraqi people from the tyranny of Saddam Hussein

No it doesn't. I don't believe that. I don't think anybody here believes that. And it certainly isn't required to believe that in order to see the obvious fallacy of your "false flag" argument which, once again, makes no sense.

Your premise also requires one to believe, that the policies of the Bush administration, are guided by logic and rational thought, which is obviously, not the case.

Again, no no no. All it requires is that you believe their policies are guided by greed. Again, demonstrably the case, as the secured the oil ministry buildings before just about anything in the country. That ministry is now useless of course, due to the fact that it's in a war zone.



Not only do you continue to avoid the motive for conducting false-flag operations, you are also ignoring a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests that the U.S. and British governments are quite possibly doing just that.

No, I'm well aware of the motive. The motive is not the issue. We agree on the motive. What we disagree on is whether or not this is a reasonable strategy in pursuit of their goals. Again, the opposite is true. When we withdraw from Iraq, we will leave no permanent bases there. We cannot support them with no infrastructure in the middle of a civil war, and it is unpalatable to most Americans. Any such bases would be under constant attack and would be completely unfit for purpose.

Your arguments make no sense. I'm not the one spewing gibberish that is considered laughable by every serious scholar of Middle East current events - you are. And you've provided no evidence to back up your claims. You've repeatedly misrepresented my comments, misunderstood what I'm saying, and generally muddied the discussion with irrelevant tripe.

Provide evidence. Provide some reasonable framework for your argument. You just want to scream "false flag false flag!" over and over again, without even understanding what a false flag operation actually entails, or why you would engage in one. Your argument, in short, is nonsense. And I'm done discussing it.

[ronnie624]

99. Such blather.

"Your arguments make no sense. I'm not the one spewing gibberish that is considered laughable by every serious scholar of Middle East current events - you are. And you've provided no evidence to back up your claims. You've repeatedly misrepresented my comments, misunderstood what I'm saying, and generally muddied the discussion with irrelevant tripe."

I have advanced no argument, other than the fact that motive exists for the Bush administration to conduct false-flag operations, and that there is a certain amount of circumstantial evidence that suggests the possibility, which you studiously ignore, as usual.

There is no need for me to provide evidence or a "reasonable framework" (whatever that is), because Jcrowley has already done so, far more effectively than I could ever hope to. If you had a genuine interest in evidence, you would have addressed that which was provided in his posts.

Everything that you have posted on this thread has been nothing but snark, sarcasm, and opinion, which you have attempted to support with some of the most irrational and convoluted reasoning in recent memory - which of course, is why you have not, even once, bothered to provide references to support your twaddle.

But I'm supposed to regard you as some sort of "scholar of Middle East current events"? Pfft!

[Junkdrawer]

38. How about as an excuse for marshal law and strong man rule?

You know maybe, just maybe, a Shiite dominated democracy wasn't the goal of the invasion.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

44. There is NO rule in Iraq.

The Iraqi central gubmint is a joke. The militias hold the real power. You can't really even say that the Americans hold the real power any more. What the Iraqi central government does at this point is irrelevant. It holds no sway whatsoever outside of Baghdad, and its position within the city is eroded more and more every day. Any strongman from any group would have to contend now with militias from the other side. You can't just bring back Saddam or a shiite clone of Saddam and press the reset button. There's going to be a bloodbath, likely lasting years.

[Junkdrawer]

45. And after the bloodbath?

:shrug:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

46. Who knows.

That all depends on whether it stays primarily an Iraqi problem or engulfs the entire region. If the latter occurs, Iraq will be the least of our problems.

[PADemD]

48. Civil War - a reason to bring the troops home

[Ian David]

22. Anyone remember when British operatives were arrested driving a car bomb?

And then they sent in tanks to rescue them from an Iraqi prison?

British Smash Into Iraqi Jail To Free 2 Detained Soldiers

By Ellen Knickmeyer and Jonathan Finer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, September 20, 2005; Page A01

BAGHDAD, Sept. 19 -- British armored vehicles backed by helicopter gunships burst through the walls of an Iraqi jail Monday in the southern city of Basra to free two British commandos detained earlier in the day by Iraqi police, witnesses and Iraqi officials said. The incident climaxed a confrontation between the two nominal allies that had sparked hours of gun battles and rioting in Basra's streets.

An Iraqi official said a half-dozen armored vehicles had smashed into the jail, the Reuters news agency reported. The provincial governor, Mohammed Walli, told news agencies that the British assault was "barbaric, savage and irresponsible."

British officials said three soldiers were hurt in the day's violence, in which at least one armored personnel carrier was destroyed by firebombs. Iraqi officials said at least two civilians were killed.

In London, authorities said the two commandos were released after negotiations. But the BBC quoted British defense officials as saying a wall was demolished when British forces went to "collect" the men.

More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091900572.html

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. Was it actually a car bomb?

Prison planet and the like have morphed this story into "were arrested while planting a car bomb" and the interlinking of the usual suspects has turned the google results into a mash of unreadable gibberish.

<some time later>

Right. Found it.

Richard Galpin said al-Jazeera news channel footage, purportedly of the equipment carried in the men's car, showed assault rifles, a light machine gun, an anti-tank weapon, radio gear and medical kit.

This is thought to be standard kit for the SAS operating in such a theatre of operations, he said

Not a car bomb.

Galpin is the beeb's reporter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4264614.stm

[Jcrowley]

29. Speaking of the SAS

The Sunday Times - Britain

The Sunday Times
August 28, 2005

SAS men get £100,000 to bribe Iraqi fighters
David Leppard
BRITISH Army officers in Iraq are being handed stashes of up to £100,000 in cash for “operational expenses” without formal controls on how it is spent.

The money is used by the SAS and other units to buy off leaders of the insurgency or to purchase weapons on the black market to avoid them passing into rebel hands.

The decades-old tradition of paying so-called “porter money” to officers is understood to be the focus of a wide-ranging internal inquiry in the SAS. It follows allegations earlier this year that hundreds of thousands of pounds may have been misappropriated during SAS covert operations in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1753874,00.html

At this point it would be instructive to go examine in detail the operations used in Iran in 1953. Please do so. It is all there in declassified documents. After doing so I suggest you go the National Security Archives database and look at the publicly available documentation on the various tactics and methodologies used throughout South and Central America. You will see striking parallels and operational procedures. Have you read the declassified materials as to operational procedures I am referring to?

You often refer to "us" as if who is fomenting this situation, which can then take a course of it's own and usually does, are some sort of folks aligned with the American people.

What you might also do is check the stock prices of the various war profiteers to observe who is benefiting and why they revel in this chaos.

Another point to consider is the desire to split Iraq into sections has been dreamt for years.

There are 70,000+ mercenaries in Iraq and these folks are very involved in what is mischaracterized as 'civil war', I assure you John Negroponte has done this before and if you'll take the time to read some of the above documents I refer to you'll see what historical patterns look like and how they can inform our thinking.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. Argh.

You aren't going to answer my questions, are you? You keep changing the subject. So now the reason for the Iraq war is to partition Iraq and enrich the SAS and mercenaries - a position to which no credible scholar on this issue gives any credence. Because it's silly. Really silly.

[Jcrowley]

37. Oh

But why? Why do we want to stay there? What objective can be achieved, other than keeping Bush from having to admit that he was wrong? The presence of our troops in Iraq is not benefiting us in any way.

Who's "we"? Who's "our"? Who's "us"?

Your reading is very selective and imprecise. The motive has nothing to do with enrichening the SAS and mercenaries that's just a side effect.

Again I encourage you to examine the historical record of how the US has been operating in other parts of the world in the last 50 years so that you can see more clearly what is rather obvious. What's almost admirable is the degree of naivete' one must possess to think that the very same folks who have been involved in orchestrating these very same tactics in many parts of the world during this time, again it's in the public record and I've read quite alot of it, and now possess even more power are not repeating their performance using the same modes of operation they are infamous for in a place they have had their sights on for years.

Have you read any of the CPA's Orders for example: Order No. 39 allows for: (1) privatization of Iraq's 200 state-owned enterprises; (2) 100% foreign ownership of Iraqi businesses; (3) 'national treatment' - which means no preferences for local over foreign businesses; (4) unrestricted, tax-free remittance of all profits and other funds; and (5) 40-year ownership licenses.

Balkanization is not exclusive to Iraq of course and the IMF and World Bank don't take "no" lightly. So they send in the jackals and call it 'civil war' which is also a convenient way to place much of the blame on the victim. Divide and conquer and propagandize the masses back home. Standard stuff.

[annabanana]

40. Thank you for the long view.

We cannot afford to be short sighted in this world.

[Jcrowley]

61. Operation Enduring Chaos

Iraq's savage sectarian war is now regarded as a greater obstacle to any semblance of peace returning than the insurgency, and was the main reason for the Americans recently pouring 12,000 troops into the capital - an operation that, they now acknowledge, has failed.

Yet, ironically, the death squads are the result of US policy. At the beginning of last year, with no end to the Sunni insurgency in sight, the Pentagon was reported to have decided to train Shia and Kurdish fighters to carry out "irregular missions". The policy, exposed in the US media, was called the "Salvador Option" after the American-backed counter-insurgency in Latin America more than 20 years ago, which led to 70,000 deaths and countless instances of human rights abuse.

Some of the most persistent allegations of abuse have been made against the Wolf Brigade, many of whom were formerly in Saddam's Baathist forces. Their main US adviser until April last year was James Steele, who, in his own biography, states that he commanded the US military group in El Salvador during the height of the guerrilla war and was involved in counter-insurgency training. The complaints against Iraqi special forces continue. At the end of last year, while in Iraq, I interviewed Ahmed Sadoun who was arrested in Mosul and held for seven months before being released without charge.

During that time, he said, he was tortured. He showed marks on his body, which were the results of the beatings and burnings. Mr Sadoun, 38, did not know which paramilitary group, accompanied by American soldiers, had seized him, but the Wolf Brigade was widely involved in suppressing disturbances in Mosul at the time.

more at:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article1938380.ece

[Ms. Clio]

67. would you stop with the America hating already?

sheesh

[Jcrowley]

70. My bad

Promise me you won't be exhuming McCarthy.

Exhuming McCarthy

You’re beautiful more beautiful than me
You’re honorable more honorable than me
Loyal to the Bank of America

It’s a sign of the times
It’s a sign of the times

You’re sharpening stones, walking on coals
To improve your business acumen.
Sharpening stones, walking on coals,
To improve your business acumen.

Vested interest united ties, landed gentry rationalize
Look who bought the myth, by jingo, buy America

It’s a sign of the times
It’s a sign of the times

You’re sharpening stones, walking on coals
To improve your business acumen.
Sharpening stones, walking on coals,
To improve your business acumen.

Enemy sighted, enemy met, I’m addressing the realpolitik
Look who bought the myth, by jingo, buy America

"Let us not assassinate this man further Senator,
You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir?
At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

You’re sharpening stones, walking on coals
To improve your business acumen.
Sharpening stones, walking on coals,
To improve your business acumen.

Enemy sighted, enemy met, I’m addressing the realpolitik
You’ve seen start and you’ve seen quit
(I’m addressing the table of content)
I always thought of you as quick
Exhuming McCarthy
(Meet me at the book burning)
Exhuming McCarthy
(Meet me at the book burning)

R.E.M.

[Ms. Clio]

75. I can't believe I was not familiar with that; thank you

Talking]
The new age is upon us
And yet the past refuses to rest in its shallow grave
For those who hide behind the false image of the son of man
shall stand before God!!! It has begun
The beginning of the end
Yeah..
Yeah... yeah, yeah


The voice of racism preaching the gospel is devilish
A fake church called the prophet Muhammad a terrorist
Forgetting God is not a religion, but a spiritual bond
And Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran
They bombed innocent people, tryin' to murder Saddam
When you gave him those chemical weapons to go to war with Iran
This is the information that they hold back from Peter Jennings
Cause Condoleeza Rice is just a new age Sally Hemmings
I break it down with critical language and spiritual anguish
The Judas I hang with, the guilt of betraying Christ
You murdered and stole his religion, and painting him white
Translated in psychologically tainted philosophy
Conservative political right wing, ideology
Glued together sloppily, the blasphemy of a nation
Got my back to the wall, cause I'm facin' assassination
Guantanamo Bay, federal incarceration
How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancin' offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?
Human rights violations, we continue the saga
El Savador and the contras in Nicaragua
And on top of that, you still wanna take me to prison
Just cause I won't trade humanity for patriotism


It's like MK-ULTRA, controlling your brain
Suggestive thinking, causing your perspective to change
They wanna rearrange the whole point of view of the ghetto
The fourth branch of the government, want us to settle
A bandana full of glittering, generality
Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?
Read about the history of the place that we live in
And stop letting corporate news tell lies to your children


Flow like the blood of Abraham through the Jews and the Arabs
Broken apart like a woman's heart, abused in a marriage
The brink of holy war, bottled up, like a miscarriage
Embedded correspondents don't tell the source of the tension
And they refuse to even mention, European intervention
Or the massacres in Jenin, the innocent screams
U.S. manufactured missles, and M-16's
Weapon contracts and corrupted American dreams
Media censorship, blocking out the video screens
A continent of oil kingdoms, bought for a bargain
Democracy is just a word, when the people are starvin'
The average citizen, made to be, blind to the reason
A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are freezin'
And the world doesn't believe that you fightin' for freedom
Cause you fucked the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon
It's open season with the CIA, bugging my crib
Trapped in a ghetto region like a Palestinian kid
Where nobody gives a fuck whether you die or you live
I'm tryin' to give the truth, and I know the price is my life
But when I'm gone they'll sing a song about Immortal Technique
Who beheaded the President, and the princes and sheiks
You don't give a fuck about us, I can see through your facade
Like a fallen angel standing in the presence of God
Bitch niggaz scared of the truth, when it looks at you hard


It's like MK-ULTRA, controlling your brain
Suggestive thinking, causing your perspective to change
They wanna rearrange the whole point of view in the ghetto
The fourth branch of the government, want us to settle
A bandana full of glittering, generality
Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?
Martial law is coming soon to the hood, to kill you
While you hanging your flag out your project window


Yeah..
The fourth branch of the government AKA the media
Seems to now have a retirement plan for ex-military officials
As if their opinion was at all unbiased
A machine shouldn't speak for men
So shut the fuck up you mindless drone!
And you know it's serious
When these same media outfits are spending millions of dollars on a PR campaign
To try to convince you they're fair and balanced
When they're some of the most ignorant, and racist people
Giving that type of mentality a safe haven
We act like we share in the spoils of war that they do
We die in wars, we don't get the contracts to make money off 'em afterwards!
We don't get weapons contracts, nigga!
We don't get cheap labor for our companies, nigga!
We are cheap labor, nigga!
Turn off the news and read, nigga!
Read... read... read...

--Immortal Technique

Video: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x8154

[Ian David]

42. Thanks for setting me straight. Al Jazeera and the Konspiracy sites were saying car bomb.

But in any case, the guys were operating "out of uniform," which is a problem.

[blonndee]

30. My very first thought as well.

Hard to imagine, but not as hard as imagining that a terrorist "network" would go to the trouble of stealing cars thousands of miles away and then somehow smuggle them all the way to Iraq. Why in the world would they bother? It's not like there aren't cars and trucks all over Iraq, and in surrounding counttries for that matter. Their theory makes NO sense at all.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

43. Raising hand! Do you remember the British soldiers dressed as Iraqis that were

arrested by the Iraqis for killing an Iraqi policeman and wounding another? The British troops then broke the men free with a tank.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4819548

[rman]

49. *raises two hands*

The other is for non-Iraqi interests being behind the death squads.

[Morgana LaFey]

53. Yeah, might be, might be.

Try these on for size. They're links I've accumulated and put under the heading, "CIVIL WAR - US FOMENTED?" I haven't revisited any of them, just posting them:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2506905

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x92532

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2278449#2278731

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x696722

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x193106#193113

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x510889

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5554171#5554406

[Ms. Clio]

69. excellent links

they will be studiously ignored.

[Jcrowley]

73. Excellent references

Ali Ghazi, also a Shia from the Iraqi deep south. “I believe it is the Americans who are doing this, pretending it is the Sunni, so there will be a civil war and they can control our wealth.” Many survivors lying mangled by this morning’s bombs subscribed to a conspiracy theory according to which the US wants to rule Iraq by fomenting differences between Shia and Sunni…

Many of those wounded denied there would be a war between Shia and Sunni. Mohammed Abdul Karim, an injured Shia at Noman hospital, pointed out that he was in a Sunni district and the Sunni doctors were doing everything to help him.

Context:
In the ’90s, (US hand-picked interim PM) Ayad Allawi helped the CIA bomb civilians to destabilize Saddam. Source: Democracy Now

(snip)

http://benfrank.net/blog/2005/09/17/suicide_bombers

From comment:
One British soldier has been arrested for having a car filled with explosives. The British government apologized for that. Then next week a US soldier was caught with another car full of explosives. Lot of Iraqi citizens have complained about being stopped by US soldiers and interrogated then when they finally got their cabs, cars, or trucks back they found explosives in them. If there was no “insurgency”, and the Iraq people got united and told the US to get out, we would have no reason to stay there. As long as the country is a disaster, our government has an excuse to stay there and keep trying to get our hands on Iraqs oil.

[fujiyama]

81. Then again

it could actually be Sunnis actually killing Shiites bitter over losing their power grip on Iraq after the fall of Saddam...and it could actually be Shiite militias, intent to capitalize on having power and being the majority...

The interviewed Shiite could just be stunned that his countrymen are as violent as they are. Denial is common when you see people around you acting like savages. People want to believe the best in those around them. We heard the same thing by people here in the US when McVeigh blew up the federal building (including wild claims that he was part of an Islamist plot).

The current raging civil war was foreseen by many before the invasion. The US is responsible for opening up the conflict in the first place, but the hatred between the different groups goes back much farther.

This doesn't back claims that they are importing cars from the US (which makes little sense as far as I can see), but to ignore the true hatred that does exist in the country, is fuckin stupid.

[Jcrowley]

84. The civil war is a creation

The civil war label ignore a whole host of factors. It's a matter of divide and conquer. Another in a series. To ignore this reality is to erase history and tactics.

The horrific attack which destroyed much of the Golden Mosque generated sectarian outrage which led to attacks on over 50 Sunni mosques. Many Sunni mosques in Baghdad were shot, burnt, or taken over. Three Imams were killed, along with scores of others in widespread violence.

This is what was shown by western corporate media.

As quickly as these horrible events began, they were called to an end and replaced by acts of solidarity between Sunni and Shia across Iraq.

This, however, was not shown by western corporate media.

The Sunnis where the first to go to demonstrations of solidarity with Shia in Samarra, as well as to condemn the mosque bombings. Demonstrations of solidarity between Sunni and Shia went off over all of Iraq: in Basra, Diwaniyah, Nasiriyah, Kut, and Salah al-Din.

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000365.php

[fujiyama]

87. A few demonstrations of "solidarity" mean nothing

The bloodshed at this point is hardly a civil war. It is pretty much ethnic cleansing.

There is enough evidence to show Sunnis and Shiites distrusted each other before this.

[Ms. Clio]

90. yes, that's why more than one-third of all marriages are between Sunnis and Shias

because there was so much "ethnic" (?) hatred and distrust.

[ronnie624]

86. Good collection.

One poster in particular, who - judging by his scattered and confused arguments, seems to be suffering in pathological denial - was noticeably absent from all but one of those threads. There too, his replies were typically weak.


(edited for punctuation)

[marmar]

13. Well, we've exported white supremacists and Chicago gang members to Iraq...

so why not a few stolen cars, too.

[Eugene]

15. This article is from October 2005.

Stolen cars from other countries are turning up in Iraq too,
not necessarily for car bombs. The article goes on to say
that bombers like American cars because they are big and
they can blend in American convoys.

It doesn't take a terrorist conspiracy to ship stolen goods
to poor countries.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. No, it takes a *criminal* conspiracy.

:)

[cali]

64. Your post will be roundly ignored

by all those who are utterly determined to see fingerprints of the US on virtually every evil that takes place.

[H2O Man]

24. Wow.

That is not good news ....

[porphyrian]

32. That sounds like way more trouble than it's worth. I'm not sure I buy it.

I don't doubt it could be done, but I can't imagine it's easier and less expensive to steal cars here and smuggle them to Iraq to be blown up than it is to just steal and use Iraqi cars.

[Jcrowley]

33. Here's one thought on that

Terrorism specialists think Iraqi insurgents prefer American stolen cars because they tend to be larger, blend in more easily with the convoys of US government and private contractors, and are harder to identify as stolen.

There is a nexus of various illegal activities involved here. There is no disputing that this is/has been done as the article clearly states the only point of contention is the who's and why's and number of cases.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. You appear to be making the assumption...

...that the cars are being stolen with the intent of using them as car bombs. I suspect that is not the case. I suspect they are simply obtaining stolen cars through the same channels used by criminals to obtain stolen cars.

As for it not being worth the time and effort to move stolen vehicles overseas, it most definitely is worth the effort. You're effectively getting the cars for free. You can move them via sea for not that much money to a place where you likely won't get caught and sell them at a tidy profit. It is not altogether without risk, but it can be less risky than reselling a stolen car in its country of origin.

[sweetheart]

56. Yes, its a way to call car thieves terrorists

Its the new criminology to suggest that 'terrorists' are behind every drugs and
crime deal in an american inner city... and its not much further of a leap to
start blaming terrorism more on poor people of ethnicity living in those cities
where those crimes are more frequent, and terrorism can now be levied as a
charge against all car thieves.

You'd think people'd catch on to this stupid bollocks since they tried it with
drugs warriors and cannabis smokers, 'smoke a joint, support a suicide bomber.'
Just like the nazis, they are broadening their political ground for persecution,
the prison guard lobbiests need to increase the prisons population, they
need more terrorists.

[Morgana LaFey]

57. You know, those are good points

Especially with the far more, shall we say, law enforcement-friendly laws for people suspected of being "terrorists."

Let's also remember that our very own CIA (and God know what else) is heavily involved -- and financed -- by its own drug operations around the world.

[Richard Steele]

78. That's EXACTLY what I thought, as well. nm

[fujiyama]

82. That was my thought as well

I have basically heard now that every criminal activity, no matter how low level it is, funds terrorism.

Pirated goods fund terrorism...so does weed, and apparently so do stolen cars...Now this doesn't mean Al Qaeda doesn't participate in such activities - seedy people are generally involved in seedy deeds, but to claim EVERYTHING is tied to terrorism is just typical fear mongering.

Why can't some just admit that sometimes criminals are criminals and are there for their own profit and greed. Not everything is a damn conspiracy. While I'm sure Al Qaeda finds funding from many sources, it's likely largely from Saudi Royals, the Pakistani ISI, and sure, drugs as well (heroin - though in that case, the CIA was likely involved in the same operations many years ago with the forerunners of the Taliban).

[Jcrowley]

41. Conditions and context

As Iraq tilts toward a sectarian war, such strains are playing out in homes all over the country. Many of the differences between Sunnis and Shia are small enough to dismiss: how they wash their feet or fold their hands in prayer, and which religious figures they most revere. Despite years of discrimination against the Shia during Saddam's era, mixed marriages between the country's major groups, including the Kurds, have been very common. There are no official statistics, but prominent sociology professor Ihsan al Hassan, who has studied the subject, estimates that of Iraq's 6.5 million married couples, 2 million are Sunni-Shia unions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11677916/site/newsweek/

AMMAN, Jordan - Retired doctors in the dapper black hats of old Baghdad slap down dominoes in smoky cafes. Construction cranes operated by Iraqi workers dot the skyline.

And when the dancing begins after midnight at Cafe Sultan, a sweaty singer gives a shout-out to Iraqi patrons, calling them by their home towns: ``Where are you, Fallujah? Where are you, Karbala? Where are you, people of Baghdad?''

The answer is: Amman.

More than 600,000 Iraqis have fled the war next door to settle here, leaving behind their homeland's violence. Shiites and Sunnis mingle easily, filling this city's downtown streets with the guttural dialect of Iraq, not the sounds of gunfire.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/16120845.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

[DemReadingDU]

47. we sold a car

It was a couple years ago. We live in southern Ohio, but the people who came to buy it were from Detroit. Middle Eastern men bought it with cash. The car was an older big Ford Crown Vic. We've often wondered whether that car is still in the U.S.

[fujiyama]

83. Then again

it could just have been a recent immigrant looking for a cheap car.

I'm not telling you you're wrong to wonder where the car went, but I think these wild exaggerations of everything funding terrorism or being used in terrorist plots is getting idiotic.

[FredStembottom]

51. My God! Think of the Cars!

Our innocent, precious cars getting maimed and destroyed in Iraq!

Thia may finally get us to pull out!

[Ms. Clio]

52. k&r

There are multiple sources that strongly support this interpretation, including Riverbend. And just yesterday the idea of partition was raised by the Bush administration: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2637889

Despite the ethnocentric notion here that Iraqis aren't really a nationality, it's not what Riverbend and, I suspect, most of her people want: "I swear we no longer want buildings and bridges, security and an undivided Iraq are more than enough."

on edit: well, I would nominate if the time period hadn't passed.

[formercia]

59. Can't have those shipping containers going back empty...

http://www.fraudcoalition.org/en/Insurance_Crime/Auto_Theft/

What Happens to Stolen Cars, the Victims and the Thieves
What Happens to Stolen Cars?

Stolen cars usually end up in one of the following places:

1. In chop shops
2. In shipping containers at ports in Canada or overseas
3. At other crime scenes
4. Abandoned in random locations
5. In the hands of unsuspecting consumers

Chop shops

About 50% of stolen vehicles end up in "chop shops,” where stolen cars are dismantled into parts to be sold off separately, often to legitimate businesses unaware the parts are stolen. This is a big business that accounts for millions of dollars a year in profits for criminals.
Shipping containers

Each year, tens of thousands of cars are stolen for export to other countries where they can be sold for many times their original market value. In some cases, these cars are recovered at Canadian ports before they reach their intended destinations. IBC is actively working on having CBSA take a more active role in preventing these vehicles from leaving Canada.

[w4rma]

60. Remember that the Republicans have been stonewalling on port security and these cars passed through

our ports.

[goforit]

63. Do ya think any US Privately hired Contractors had anything to do w/it

[Ms. Clio]

66. naw

and the CIA never utilized criminal drug networks in pursuit of its goals, either.

All is perfectly fine and well in this the most bestest country in the world, forever and ever, amen.

[goforit]

88. LOL!!! so true!

By the way, your puppy looks like my puppy.

Adorable!!!

[Ms. Clio]

91. thank you!

is your puppy a shepherd?

[lonestarnot]

68. They are using new technology in Phoenix.

Going through sweeps of large parking lots in 20 minutes. Just like the new peepee display machine at the airport. Phoenix must be the new hub for teeves and terraists!

[jeffrey_X]

71. ...were "probably" stolen in the United States...

Probably?

How hard is it to verify the VIN???

let me know when this is factual instead of speculation.

[tammywammy]

72. The VIN doesn't state where it was sold

But where/when it was made. With the VIN you could contact the manufacturer and from there find out where it was shipped or sold to.

Here's a site with a decent explaniation of VIN digits.
http://www.autoinsurancetips.com/vin.htm

and here's a site that will "decode" your VIN for you, if you don't know how to read it:
http://www.analogx.com/contents/vinview.htm

[mistertrickster]

76. This reminds me of the mysterious British soldiers that were dressed

as locals with a car load of explosives. They were arrested by Iraqi police. The British military simply drove a tank through the wall of the jail where they were being held.

I could never figure what's up with that.

Now I'm getting a better idea . . .

[JCMach1]

77. This is common, they are all over asia and africe... Stolen is cheap, that's

why they are using them!

[Ganja Ninja]

96. Exactly! Welcome to reality America.

Stolen cars are taken out of this country by the ship load and wind up all over the world.

[madmusic]

79. When were they stolen? 1991?

[allalone]

80. the operative word here is probably

Once again the sky is falling. No proof. Everyday it's something or rather everyday it's nothing.

[knitter4democracy]

85. How ironic.

Attack us using symbols of our excess and dependence on oil.

[BluePatriot]

97. Perhaps purchased / titled in Texas by a contractor and stolen?

*shrug* That makes a lot more sense than having a giant auto theft ring sending vehicles over there...My Houston-based company exports vehicles to the field for a contractor, so it just makes more sense that way to me.

[TexasLawyer]

100. Proof positive that the American Government is behind the Iraq bombings!

well... er ...

at least it's proof positive when you employ the same logic that says weapons made in Iran and showing up in Iraq constitutes proof positive that the Iranian government is arming the Iraq insurgency.

[Peace is Possible]

101. I have long suspected the civil war was a lie

Why would they bother killing each other when they have a bigger enemy in their country-US?

Why would war criminals perpetuate lies- to make more money of course.

great post-thanks
:applause:

The Iraqis have united in asking US to get out of the country. It is easy to see why.