OK the bushie is after me again.

[lonestarnot]

Her email to me today:

just curious.... what is more important to you, 30 years of friendship or
that I voted for Bush? For the record he is not my favorite president, I
wasn't crazy about him from the beginning.....I didn't feel I had much to
choose from. I'm an Independent, not a Republican, not a Democrat. I
voted
Democrat the time before...he was a real gem too. I haven't been thrilled
about the options for president for years.... I think it has become a sad
state of affairs. I fight to help people and save the environment. So
hate
me or love me.....don't know what else to say.
C-Ya,

My response to her:
I guess Democracy is more important to me than you and you refuse to be held
accountable for your contribution to what is happening just like every other
bushie. There is more here than meets the shallow look. A bushie is a
bushie and there is no getting around the fact that their (which includes
you) methods have turned America into something I do not recognize. For
this I will forgive you as I think you just didn't do your homework and
still haven't. But I am so angered by all of it I have severed ties with
anyone who supported him past, present or future. And by the way. Clinton
ruined a dress, bushitler ruined a nation.

So what do you think DUers? Am I heartless, stupid, not a real friend? I just can't stomach friendship with a bushitler ass licker! I just can't. I guess it's bothering me or I wouldn't be asking yous guys.

[Straight Shooter]

1. I won't comment on your decision, which is your personal business.

But that's one of the best lines I've ever heard: Clinton ruined a dress, bush ruined a nation.

[lonestarnot]

3. Well let me ask you this. If you were friends with someone for 30 years,

and the friend told you that they voted for bushitler, how would you feel about them? p.s. I borrowed the dress line from a previous user. It's not mine.

[Straight Shooter]

7. I would feel really let down and discouraged.

I would probably even feel hurt that the person thought so little of my future and the future of America, no doubt about it.

I do have a couple friends who voted for bush and I just keep a'trying to educate them. Sooner or later, I figure it's got to sink in.

[lonestarnot]

11. Straight Shooter, you are much more patient than I. Probably kinder

too.

[Straight Shooter]

39. Maybe more patient. Not kinder.

YOu do care enough to bring up the issue on DU and discuss it.

Good luck with whatever you do. Sometimes it's best to call a truce and go your separate ways for a while.

In the meantime, you can probably use this: :hug:

[lonestarnot]

50. Thanks straightshooter!

:hug:

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Right

One of my good friends voted for him. She asked me who I was voting for and I proudly said "John Kerry" and she replied back how he's a flipflopper and I of course stud up for Kerry. We don't talk politics but we have other things in common and I enjoy her as a friend. She isn't a fundie or freeper or anything like that. We never talked why she voted for Bush. I just never felt like asking. :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

49. Well I think this friendship that you speak of is not comparable to the

one in the OP, or maybe you are more tolerant than I am. Tolerant is good and maybe I'm the pot calling the kettle black, but there are too many mirrors and two much smoke in the 30 years of this crap and I don't have the space anymore. Maybe I am the one who has become something different, but I can do that if I want. But if you're not a lib, I don't want your company. Sound narrow, but I want peace, and if I have to spend hours away battling, I'm not having peace. And if I'm not having peace exponentially thousands are not having peace. Countries are not having peace and the world is not having peace. Peace FreedomAngel82!

[TankLV]

40. I have already ceased interaction with a couple friends over this issue.

Never felt better.

Do what your conscience dictates.

The aggrivation is not worth the bother.

Maybe if more people shunned this bushbots, they'd start to think for a change.

[lonestarnot]

71. This is my thinking also. Walk the talk!

[liberalhistorian]

72. I would be upset, of course,

but I would also recognize that politics isn't everything, and that some things are more important than politics, namely family and long-time friends. Seems to me your friend is asking the right question, "what is more important to you, 30 years of friendship or politics?"

My best friend of 25 years is fairly conservative, as is her family, and I wouldn't dream of ending the friendship over something like who she voted for. And for the record, she didn't vote at all in 2004, because she couldn't stand either candidate. She voted for Bush in 2000. Yes, I was very upset over that and explained why, but did I end the friendship over that? Of course not. Every election in the past 25 years, we've enjoyed trying to convince each other to vote for the other's candidate and have had some pretty good debates and discussions over the years. But we never threatened to end the friendship over who the other voted for. That's the way it should be.

When she fought cancer, she was able to see first-hand many of the things about the state of our so-called health "care" system that I'd been trying to tell her for years. At the same time, she's taught me some different ways of looking at things as well.

I find it sad that you consider politics to be more important than a 30-year friendship. You don't jump up and down and scream and stamp your foot when a friend or family member doesn't agree with you politically, you have debates and discussions with them and recognize that people are ultimately more important then politics.

And let me ask you this: what if she had done the same thing when you voted for Clinton and she didn't? How would that have made you feel?

[Swamp Rat]

2. I don't know... I would have been a bit more forgiving - IF - s/he was a

longtime and close friend.

Maybe you could win her over by:

1. Forgiving her for her stupid choice in pretzeldents.
2. Work with her by informing her... a little bit at a time, or at least in doses she can handle.
3. Explain fully, in detail, why YOU are so upset.

I do not know how good of a friend she is, but if she is, then I'd apologize for being so harsh. THEN, open her eyes. Remember, converts are often the best allies, even to the point of zealotry... which is GREAT for we Americans.

[lonestarnot]

4. Jesus, a shortcoming I have is a short fuse when it comes to brick walls.

There is no getting through to these people. I conceded that back when I concluded I would never surrender. I told her I forgave her, but I no longer desire to have a friendship with her. I can't look at her without thinking about how she contributed to what's yet to come.

[Swamp Rat]

25. OK, I understand.

Been there, done that. :hug:

Send her this. Show her who's in her underpants:



:D

[lonestarnot]

76. eeeeeeeewwwwwwww! In her underpants you say! YIKES

God I love you swampie!

[FreedomAngel82]

28. Not always

My dad voted Bush in 2000 and 2004 but we voted for the same person for mayor and he is a huge fan of the "Daily Show" and "Colbert Report." He knows now after getting into these shows that Bush lied and things like that. So people do change. You just have to figure out each person's buttons and how to approach them. If this person really is an independent you should try to get them to vote democratic in the midterms.

[lonestarnot]

74. I can give you her contact information.

[acmejack]

5. At least your fiend still wants to be your friend.

Many Bushies are not, so your friend may be worthy of a reclamation project. I have similar friends, the loss of whom bothers me every single day. I loved those people for over forty years, so think carefully before you sever the ties, those are my only words of caution!

[lonestarnot]

8. Nope it's way past that. It would not be fair if I pretended to think

everything is just as it was. I have to be honest with myself, and frankly, I don't miss her that much. It's the whole bushie personality thing, I just can't hang. It's not me. So what do we have in common, nothing because everything is colored with that looking glass.

[acmejack]

10. Yeah, I can understand how that goes too

With the people I was talking about, they were the biggest liberals around at one time. But now, they are all recent (relatively, last decade) converts to evangelistic christianity. I don't know them anymore at all. Of course my friend had a pal who was an SDS member in the sixties and voted for * last time because he was worried about terror! She told him she didn't believe they could be friends any longer (she is very good at explaining these things, she is a clinical psychologist) and he was baffled.

But I agree with you, I feel as if I have no common ground with such people and am no longer sure if I want to look for any.

[lonestarnot]

14. You said it all right! Exactly the way I feel, only I am sure I no longer

want to look for that common ground. I am not capable, I keep seeing reflections of bushitler in her actions. I just can't stomach it, just can't.

[Oversea Visitor]

6. HA

Try leaving bygone be bygone.
More positively look at the future.
Not my favorite president is a very strong answer
Fact is I think the person starting to see through the bullshit
Person also call Clinton a real gem.

I think the I didnt have much to choose from is the real issue
Swiftboating work sadly here.
Right approach to problems will be sharing of infos.

The person might have voted bush in the past but I dont think the person is standing by it in the present or the future. Maybe my take on this is wrong.
But my friend dont draw lines that cannot be change
The vote for bush cannot be change it is a done thing
If you are holding this as a test then that is truly a waste of time.
We cant change the past we can change the future.

What is then consider a winning objectives?
Losing a friend or winning and keeping a friend.....
The challenge here is to keep the friend and also to help the friend see the light.

Ultimately you decide but dont try to change something that cannot be change what done is done more important is that such mistake never be repeated.

[lonestarnot]

9. The gem comment was pure

:sarcasm: and if the election was a do over today, I have no doubt she would make the same decision.

[Oversea Visitor]

19. Would you assume so?

You are expose to lots of misinformation.
You can see through all of this
This hence is your advantage

Would the person that not conclude that bush is not a good choice if the person can see through all the bushit.
The question here is what bushit the person has swallow
The challenge here is to corrected that

But I see your faith in the person is not there no more
I truly cannot classified this person as a freeper
It there then no hope.

If that is the case then US is truly lose.

Do not cry about what has come to pass worry about what will come and work towards a better way

I am sorry but this battle is not worth winning.

[lonestarnot]

20. Well if you can't classify a bushitler voter as a freeper, what is your

definition of a freeper?

[Oversea Visitor]

21. A no hoper

A fanatical bush voter who will not accept any slight on their god president.

Does your friend fit this?

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Look at free republic

That's a freeper. A typical person voting for Bush isn't always a freeper. People change. For example I remember Ashton Kutcher said he voted for Bush in 2000 and he supported Kerry in 2004. My grandmother on my dad's side is the same. She voted for Bush both times but now doesn't support him because of all of his lies. She is even doubting his faith and that's a huge thing. So you shouldn't just paint people all the same. And you want to get these people to vote democratic in 2006 with how you treat them? Some people you can't change but a lot of people you can.

[Cleita]

12. No, it's about time we spoke the truth, no matter how it hurts,

She will either try to understand what you are saying or refuse to discuss politics with you, but I'm sure an olive branch for your friendship will be extended. I have done the same with my family. No they haven't disowned me, but they have asked that I don't discuss politics with them anymore.

Don't worry, I still get information in, especially when they are affected by the acts of the Bush administration, the latest being the eminent domain issue.

[lonestarnot]

15. Oh that old line about not discussing politics is a sick one isn't it. I

mean every fucking thing we do is political, down to picking out your shirt for the day.

[joeunderdog]

83. Convert, or else! Is that the message?

The 2 Best Men at my wedding last year are Repubs. If I were to engage in political discussions with these 2 guys, our friendship would suffer or end. Why go there? They, like other Americans, have the right to be wrong. I don't agree with their politics, but they're great friends in other ways. We all know not to get into it.

Since I can't convince EVERYBODY the error of their BushBot ways, I choose to not try to convince/convert my pals. It's poor judgement--like talking politics at an airport screening station or to your boss--too much to lose and other things matter.

Pick and choose who you want to put a full court press on. Good friends are hard to come by.

[BillZBubb]

13. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I could never respect anyone who voted for Bush. That makes a true friendship impossible.

I don't think you are being stupid at all, nor heartless. It is your life and you have every right to choose the sort of people you want to share it with. Personally, I have no time for clueless right wingers or their enablers.

Decide what's best for your happiness and peace of mind.

[lonestarnot]

16. I have decided, but I just wanted to know how my fellow DUers would

view my actions. She's outta heya baby!

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Even if that person changes and votes for someone better?

Such as a democrat? So what about people like my grandmother on my dad's side? She voted for Bush both times for whatever reason and now she doesn't like him at all because of his lies. So does that mean I should write her off because of who she once voted for? That's really childish and so immature. Politics is important but it shouldn't be the only thing where you base your friendship on or your family.

[BillZBubb]

37. Family members are somewhat different.

We choose our friends, our families are chosen for us. Family members merely loose my respect. I don't suggest you "write her off". I do expect you to not have much respect for her judgment.

As for friends, I think several characteristics essential to being a true friend are not to be found in anyone who would vote for Bush. The lack of empathy and concern for the disadvantaged being one. The blatant selfishness is another. People with those traits are not the kind of people to be counted as friends, merely acquaintances.

So take your childish and immature comment and stuff it where the sun don't shine.

[lonestarnot]

53. Oh boy do I have issues with this!

Yes I blame your granny for contributing to this mess and I would have a hard time liking her.

[Oceansaway]

17. I COMMEND YOU !!! WTG !!!

[lonestarnot]

18. Well those are my guns and I'm stickin' too 'em may be a bad thing,

but I think I've turned bad....LOL Thanks for the commendation!

[Generator]

22. Anybody that loves the environment

would not dream of voting Republican. She's talking out of her ass. They are ALWAYS bad for the environment since they always put business and thus, pollution first. Read any of the history of that. And Bush has been the worse-setting standards backwards all the time. Wildlife refuge? Oil? Energy? Has she ever met a tree she didn't want to chop down then?

Did she vote for Bush because she didn't like Kerry's tan? Or the fact that Bush will keep her safe? Or because gay marriage is a threat to her personally?

Yeah hold her accountable. Anybody that doesn't even say "I'm sorry, I was wrong about that creep," doesn't deserve your time.

The environment line just cheesed me off.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. So what about Teddy Roosevelt?

He was a republican who cared about the enviornment. Do you know every single republican out there in our country?

[Generator]

34. Jeez I was only thinking in my lifetime

I really only think about Republicans since Reagan.. haven't studied Roosevelt. But I stand by the comment I don't think if you love the environment you could vote Republican. Period. Maybe you wouldn't vote at all. But c'mon read the Sierra club or something. They only care about money-not stupid things like trees-Reagan said they were the cause of pollution. And yeah-if you really CARE about something-like saying you CARE about the environment then you take the time to CARE who you are voting for if you vote at all.

[BillZBubb]

38. Oh please, more naive bs!

Roosevelt has been dead how long?

Anyone who votes Republican or has for the past 35 years cares less about the environment--much less--than many other issues. You don't have to know every Republican to know that. It just isn't that big a priority for them. If it was they couldn't vote Repug.

[lonestarnot]

54. He stunk!

[IdaBriggs]

23. Regret, Repent & Repair

If she wants to keep the friendship, then I suggest you have her do something about it. She voted for him, she needs to help oust him. If she can't (or won't), then keep her gone. :) Best, Ida

[lonestarnot]

55. She wouldn't I know before asking. Keeping her gone! Thanks Ida!

:hug:

[FreedomAngel82]

24. I would ask her if she does care about her country

why doesn't she vote democratic in 2006?

[mitchum]

27. Kick her to the curb...life is too fleeting and precious to spend...

with idiots.

[lonestarnot]

56. absolutely too fleeting! idiots be gone!

:hug:'s to Mitchum!

[baldguy]

29. If she's an "independent"

why does she follow the sheep?

[lonestarnot]

57. Good damn question! Another contradiction in terms!

[BushOut06]

84. There are no true Independents anymore

Most "independents" I know are closet case gophers, but are too chickenshit to publicly say so.

[B Calm]

33. You can't be friends with a fascist. There is no place for their

kind in our country!

[lonestarnot]

58. Woo hooo B Calm! No argument here!

[PuraVidaDreamin]

35. LSN- I've seen you in action, You have much patience and compassion!

but I know exactly where you are coming from. I've severed
most ties of those who are apathetic, ignorant, or both.

I've no more tolerance for the above. I am enjoying all the
new connections and friends I have met through the movement.
These are the people who matter now.

Perhaps someday if any of this mess gets cleaned up I'll
reconnect with those from the past, when we can just joke
about regular bullshit. But somehow, I don't think it
will ever be the same.

Love YOU! Stay Strong!

[lonestarnot]

44. PVD! So wonderful to hear from you! Damn! I have missed you!

Yeah I got another email this morning saying she gets the message and telling me she still loves me like a sister and some more sad stuff about big D, but that is not the point, or maybe it is. You can't love someone and make bad decisions for them that ruin their lives! But I've noticed another similarity among these people, they are controllers. Their own lives are out of control in some aspect, so they try to reach in and affect others in ways they feel would be appropriate, even if the other person or people affected by them are doing nothing that would harm or contribute to thier life. Just make me sick I tell ya! SICK! Love you PVD, pm me with some news about you. Peace sister in Freedom's March!

[Ksec]

36. Me too. Ive lost a brother to this regime

And a once close Brother to boot. He was 4 years younger than me and he always looked up to me. Now he becomes real active in the Baptist church after he joined the air force and does a complete 180. He sounds like he would fit into Free Rethug real easy. Its almost word for word when we talked about issues. I couldnt take that so we had a falling out and havent spoke in a few years. He just retired from the military and now lives in Alabama with his wife and three kids whom they are home schooling. (apparently they dont want them exposed to the riff raff of the public school system...)

[lonestarnot]

45. You now, that is ironic, because I was in the Air Force, a baptist (not a

regular church attender, but I do know the Bible) and this friend is into well the total opposite, and now look at it. She's supported the fundy effort and I'm fighting for the libs. BWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Crazy! I'm sorry about your brother. That has really got to be bad. This hurts badly enough.

[cmd]

88. My brother has also gone over to the other side

In the 60's he was the wild one. One of the first with long hair, drove a psychodelic painted van, played in a rock band, considered our liberal dad far too conservative for him. Today dad is still the liberal that he always was, little brother is the ultra-conservative, fundamentalist. I feel sorry for him. He has cut himself off from the rest of our family and thinks he is serving God.

[Morning Dew]

41. "I fight to help people and save the environment."

and she voted for shrubco?

She's full of crap or stupid beyond belief if she supported * after the first term. I don't have any room in my life for friends who support or apologize for this regime.

You done good, IMO.

[Hello_Kitty]

43. Thank you!

If you're going to support these tinpot fascists, please do everyone a favor and stop pretending to be 'moderate' or 'independent' or gawd forbid 'progressive' about anything!

Much as the more overt Brownshirt types scare me, they at least have my grudging respect for being honest about who they are!

[lonestarnot]

48. Oh but are they so honest? This one wasn't for the longest time, longest

time. I had to pry it out of her with a big churchkey. I don't know why at her age she wouldn't just want to be herself unless maybe she just really doesn't like herself.

[lonestarnot]

46. Yeah I couldn't believe this confusing shit either. What is that? The

two terms are completely contradictory! It can't happen, but her message this morning points out that she "gets the message." I have no room in my life for that crap! Thanks Morning Dew.

[Hello_Kitty]

42. Very similar to my situation

I have this one particular friend who is a Bushie. She reaaaaaally gets under my skin for some reason, as opposed to other people I'm involved with, my recent b/f included (I know, I know :shrug: ) who voted for the Chimp. There is something annoyingly passive-aggressive about the way she broaches the subject of politics with me, and I can see it in your friend's emails too.


My friend tends to be fairly traditional in her views of gender (though she claimsto be prochoice) and is quite needy in general. The fact that I think voting for * is stupid and wrong and am quite vocal about it is an affront to her. It hurts her feelings. She perceives it as an attack on her. She's acts this way about everything, not just politics. If you disagree with her about something she pouts until you backpedal. And most times I go along with it. I'll pretend to agree with her choice in curtain colors or boyfriends to preserve the peace but when it comes to supporting fascists I draw the line. And that drives her crazy. Since she's a bushbot, of course she doesn't have a rational argument so what she does is drop little RW talking points into the conversation. Or she'll set me up by asking me what I think about something, having already gotten her talking points from Rush or whoever. She's tried the email route but I just delete them. It's getting really tiresome hanging out with her, which I do as little as possible these days.

Does this sound like your friend at all? I don't have this problem with other bushies. We either argue or agree to disagree but there's not this undercurrent of weirdness and control issues like there is with this woman.

I'm dreading Thursday. A group of us are going to a dinner and wine tasting. I'm waiting for her to start her shit again. Ugh....:banghead:

[lonestarnot]

47. OMG! EXACTLY! Are we leading mirror friendship lives? LOL

No I guess not. I ousted her from mine. I am totatally me. Can't compromise this. My kid and Mother are the only ones I put above what is happening to us, and neither of them are "confussed." Thank God for that! I would be out of my tree if it broke up my tiny family. Wierdness and control issues baby, you got it! You would just like to shake them into their senses, like "I know you're in there, now cast off this other personality you stupid bitch!" Maybe that's a control issue in me. Well whatever it is I don't like it and I'm just not having it. I got on both sides of the bridge and burned the MFr down! It's gone, I checked and I'm not looking back.

[Hello_Kitty]

90. So it sounds like a personal issue with this friend, just like mine

The political stuff amplifies it to the extreme because we feel so strongly about it and aren't budging. Control freaks can't tolerate that. Particularly when they are accustomed to some acquiescence from you. And control-freakish sorts tend to gravitate to conservatism (though not always - I encounter liberal versions fairly frequently) because the authoritarianism appeals to them.

I'm pretty much ready to call it day on my friendship and it's NOT only about the election. That's just the catalyst for a lot of underlying problems that were festering. Friendships are supposed to be about fun and support. Life is too short to deal with pain-in-the-ass friends!

[hatrack]

51. How can anyone "fight to save the environment" and vote for Bush?

Run, don't walk.

[lonestarnot]

60. Heh heh heh

:rofl: But I think I leave the running to her.......

[Brewman_Jax]

52. I can appreciate your pain

but freepers suck. Their brains are turned off, and nothing will change until they are held accountable and feel the pain that they'd gladly inflict on everyone else. I used to attribute their freeperness to ignorance, (I've heard the "let's be nice to freepers" excuses and they make me want to :puke: ) I have other reasons to detest freepers, but, I digress. In order to be a freeper, one has to be first and foremost willfully ignorant. Haven't met a freeper that couldn't tell you all of the fact and fiction about Bill Clinton, but bring up the misdeeds of the High Lord Bush*, you get a :shrug: and "I never heard about that."

I agree with you, just say no.

[lonestarnot]

61. So true Lurking_Argyle! So true!

and don't you just hate that dumb as :shrug: shit? Just like makes me want to get the ice bucket as mopaul suggest this a.m.

[Nimrod2005]

59. Right on!!!

:toast: :yourock:

[lonestarnot]

65. Wooooodamn whoooooo it's a celebration! And on with life! I say!

:toast: :party: and kick it in the fascist fat ass and move on!

[OnionPatch]

62. She wants to protect the environment?

And she voted for BUSH!!!??????

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[lonestarnot]

66. Can you believe that shit? All in the same damn breath!

:rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[gauguin57]

63. Your friendship is your personal decision. But isn't it sad ...

... that, along with destroying our country, Bush is breaking up 30-year friendships? He's dividing the country so much that our friendships are suffering.

I have two family members who voted for Bush. I hate that they did that; I hate that they still defend these criminals. I cannot talk to them about anything in the realm of politics. But I love them, and won't allow Bush et al to destroy our family relations.

I understand completely how you feel ... I just hate to see Bush get the satisfaction of breaking up a friendship. It gives him too much importance, somehow.

My liberal sister is close friends with a Bushie ... they maintain their friendship by not talking about politics. At all. And, despite the fact that each of their personal politics is very important to them, their friendship is not a false one just because it doesn't include politics. Their friendship was too important to them to let politics come between them. My sister accepts that her friend has drunk the kool-aid, but that maybe when the chickens come home to roost, her friend will realize her colossal mistake in voting for those Bush b*stards. In the meantime, they chat, swap novels, go to the movies and support each other, as friends do.

I'd hate for you to lose a long, valued friendship because of those creeps in the White House. When this is all over, your friend may think better of her decision to vote for Bush, but your friendship will be irretrievably broken. And, even if he's sitting in an orange jumpsuit in the Hague, Bush will get the last laugh.

[lonestarnot]

68. Nope, I just don't see it that way, even one's choice of socks is politica

l, so people that think they can avoid political talk and get along are just wrongo!

[BushOut06]

64. I try not to associate with stupid people

And anyone who voted for Chimp and continues to defend him fits that category.

I can feel some sympathy for those who might have bought into Bushie the first time around, and became disillusioned afterwards. But to vote for the ass twice shows either sheer stupidity or incredible stubbornness.

[lonestarnot]

69. Agree!

[stepnw1f]

67. I Understand and Feel the Same Way

Just keep in mind that the Bushies pulling the strings want us to completely divide. If ya can keep arguing and fighting, that may be better than splitting.

[lonestarnot]

70. But when she comes to my house, I feel I would be feeding the enemy.

[Armstead]

73. Don't know your history but friendship is more than politics

It's difficult to comment on such a personal thing, but I don't write off friendships just because of political differences unless the other person is a true freeper.

I had one long-time friend who was a hardcore freeper. We used to enjoy arguing politics, but eventually it made us both too mad and we haven;t seen each other in a long time. In that case, he was just too strident and inflexible, and his politics infiltrated his opoinions about everything. Therefore couldn;t talk about anything else either becaue it always eliited a Hannity like response.

But I hve other friends who voted for Bush but are good people otherwise, and we just agree to disagree about that. They aren't freepers. In those cses, the friendships are worthwhile enough to make it possible to overlook the differences.

I guess basially what I'd say is that when politis colors evrythng in a friendship, it's probbly not worth it. But if the other person is at least reasonable, and there's more positives than negatives, I don't believe it is worth sacrificing the friendship based on who they support a president.

[lonestarnot]

75. I find nothing satisfying in a shallow friendship such as the one you

describe. This issue is much deeper, much much deeper. Friendship means way more to me than just surface and appearances, and 'getting along.'

[Armstead]

77. I didn't find it satisfying either

That's why I was able to let it go so easily.

However, for example, another friend since college is one of my best buds in the world. back in the 70's when we were dorm mates we were alrady different in some of our goals,etc. but what we had in common was much more important....He later became a Christian and more conservative. But the baic rapport and supportiveness is still there.

That's why I said there is no "one size fits all" regarding this. The degree to which politics matters depends IMO on how deep and multi-dimensional the friendship is overall.

[lonestarnot]

92. Why must Christian and conservative be used in the same line here?

"He later became a Christian and 'more' conservative. What is conservative by your definition? and what is a Christian by your definition, and do you think bushitler is really a Christian?

[Heewack]

78. After reading several posts like this

I just don't understand it. They all read pretty much the same, "lost a friend of 30 years, brother, sister, mother, aunt, etc.", because of "my purity in my political beliefs" that these "friends" don't share. That type of thinking will undoubtedly lead to one lonely existence. I rarely read of someone who has been themselves disowned by a friend because of their beliefs, so it begs the question of why is this such a one way street? Why are DU'ers choosing to end friendships and family relations over politics? I think the answer may come from mopaul's thread he made earlier. Panic. IMO, irrational panic. Victims of our own hyperbole. No matter how bad things seem right now there will be a correction. It may not be this year or the next, but it will come. That's the history of this country. It always ebbs back and forth.

Remember that we are all on our own journey, and it's unrealistic to expect everyone in our lives to be at the same place we are on that journey. Condemning someone because they are not in the same place serves no purpose. If you were wanting her to see things the same way as you do, you effectively slammed the door shut on that possibility, and maybe even turned her away from ever seeing things in that light.

Intolerance has never solved anything.

Peace.

[BushOut06]

79. Intolerance?

What about their continual intolerance of minorities, homosexuals, women (in power, that is), non-Christian religions, etc? They love to try to cast us as being intolerant of them - "Oh look at the liberals, they preach tolerance but don't tolerate anyone but themselves".

Why should we be tolerant of a bunch of racist, homophobic, xenophobic misogynists?

[Heewack]

80. I don't think that is the issue in this case.

What you are talking about is another issue altogether. But to answer your question I have never been able to change anyone's mind that I am not at least willing to talk to. I perfer to lead by example and that has worked quite well for me. Two wrongs certainly doesn't make a right.

Maybe I'm different, but I love my friends and family unconditionally. If they do something I don't like it doesn't mean I disown them.

[nanbrown]

81. jmo, but what a waste

i don't throw out friendships because people don't agree with my politics or world view. life is too short and would be increasingly lonely if i tossed away well built relationships over political absolutism. isn't worth it.

sometimes people on this forum seem to confuse political activism with realtionship building. i have been a hard leftist for many years and maintain friendships both within the movement in the south and with other people i love as well. life is big. the older i get, the more value i put on knowing others well and loving them well.

[joeunderdog]

85. McCain recently said, "They are the opposition, not the enemy."

when discussing partisan politics. We Liberals bitch, bitch, bitch about the Republicans flat out ignoring our ideas and our even existence. We want to be respected as important and worthy. We get angry because the people who don't agree with our politics are rejecting us wholesale. We accuse the BushBots of only looking at The Bottom Line and not investing in people. We want meaningful disagreement to re-enter our political culture.

And now I see 75 posts saying "If you can't beat em, join em."

Shame, shame, shame.

[greentrees]

89. Heewack's Philosophy

There's something about Heewack's philosophy that makes sense.

Remember the old adage: "This, too, shall end."

You just have to keep working at it ... reasonably.

[foreverdem]

82. I almost lost a 20 year friendship

One of my friends, who I've known since high school, is a hard core * supporter. The usual, Reagan was a great president and "trickle down economics" worked, Clinton did not leave us with a surplus, environmentalists are "tree huggers", etc. If you present her with facts, she interrupts you, gets flustered and starts talking over you. I think you get the picture.
Anyway, we got into some real knock down, drag out fights over politics and actually stopped speaking completely for almost one year. I was the first person she called, crying hysterically, when she found her husband cheating on her, apologizing profusely for the things she had said. We talk now, but it's strained at times and agreed that politics is an off limits discussion.

[TexasLady]

86. perhaps your being worried says something to you

the way i see it, ive lost friendships over bush bullshit, and never had another thought about it. For this one, though, maybe your worried about it for a reason. She does sound sad that she was duped. Search your heart for this one.

[jeanarrett]

87. One of my best friends is a Bush lover.

I think it's for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is her SO is a Vietnam vet and believed the swiftboat shitheads. Her son served in Iraq and safely returned, but referred to those people he was taking freedom to as ragheads. So my friend really does not trust herself, I think, to think her own thoughts. She's buying into what those closest to her tell her to. We've had many fights about Bush/Kerry/Clinton/Iraq, etc., and what usually happens is that she has no response or is unable to form an honest answer to my question, "what is it about him that you like/admire/worship so much?" Usually, she just says she is entitled to her beliefs and I'm entitled to mine, which tells me absolutely nothing. Sometimes she gets pissed off at me and blocks my e-mails, but she always comes back around and we agree to disagree and move on to something else.

What is really weird is that she and I are so MUCH alike in every other aspect of our lives other than our politics. I love her--she has stood beside me through some pretty tough times and I absolutely refuse to let the asshole in the Whitehouse who has destroyed so much else around us, take away this friendship too. The bastard is just not worth it, so we agree to disagree, and someday 20 years from now, we'll probably laugh about it over our gin and tonics, but we'll still be friends.

[lakeguy]

91. had a couple friends who voted for bush in 2000...

hung in there and they did NOT vote for him in 2004. these guys just didn't have the facts and thought they'd be better off with "lower taxes" or some bs like that. now they know better. helps that a couple of us talk politics all the time so they always got little doses of the truth.