Bush vs Clinton ie: Giving to the Poor

[Sugarcoated]

I know I could Google this, but it still would take some digging and I thought I'd just ask someone here to give me a link to save me some time. Is there a comparison to how much each has done for the poor in this country?

[The Straight Story]

1. Depends on how one defines that really

I remember reading something about there were more homeless people under clinton than bush 1. But that does not really tell a lot of the story (this was from a homeless advocate site).

The question needs, I think, to focus on what legislation was passed and how it affected the poor.

I would argue both did not live up to what we would expect. And I think we should keep hammering on whatever party is in power at the time to do more.

The RW hasn't got a clue about helping the poor as they think it all relates to one thing - hard work. They are wrong, and I can prove it to them, but they don't care.

I would say clinton was more in tune to it, but sadly when people get to washington and get theirs it seems that poor people are a million miles away and not worth worrying about as much (except around election time).

[Sugarcoated]

2. I'd be very interested

to hear your proof of that. Dubunking the conservative BS about hard work, that is.

[The Straight Story]

3. My proof:

The core ideal:
Hard work is all you need to make it in America

My view:
Hard work as it is defined requires an equal set of circumstances for all. IF we all set out equal, then how does one explain...

1. Varied forms of mental illness which afflict folks. From depression to bipolar.
2. Physical limitations, how come the RW folks you are talking to are not all professional athletes in various sports, did they not work hard enough?
3. Do they think they can play better music than someone else? If so, why aren't they doing it?
4. From the above: we all have different skills, talents, and abilities (and this, BTW, is mentioned in the bible - god said in the NT that different people had different gifts)
5. Why is it that joe six pack can fix a car and a brain surgeon has to take it in to their shop to be fixed? Reason to me is - we only have so much time to learn so many things, things we all need but at differing levels. If someone invests all their time in college and internship on brains they have less time to invest in car issues. Hence we cannot all be equal as we must remain diverse. Some people will have less skills, but we need them all the same - it is teamwork.
6. If everyone became a dr to make money and get ahead in life, no one would have the time to learn the other things or be the other things we needed (firemen, police, janitor, etc). - Hence we will always need less skilled people in this world and if we don't support them in the basics we all lose out.
7. Investments: We invest in something we want to have a return. If we invest in education (tax dollars) we get a huge return that benefits us. Some will choose to take a less complex route (food service, car tech, clerk, etc) and we must see that all are needed for our society to function as it does.
8. If we do not support the people at those levels so they can survive we lose needed functions and must make them up ourselves, which we don't need to do if we invest in them.

If life was all about money, maybe, just maybe, I could see their point. Life is about more than that and is made up of a potpurri of things - things we all need. Scientists of many disciplines, athletes, janitors, security guards, etc and so on. It behooves us to invest in the core things which make this country what it is. Hard work can lead to great wealth for one, but it should never lead to great poverty. Since we need hard working people in all fields then it follows that we should insure all people can have the basics in life to survive so that those in higher learning fields can be able to pursue the things they do.

We depend on them, they on us. If EVERY US citizen tomorrow had a law degree, it would be worth nothing for us all. We need diversity of employment, but we also need to make sure all those employed can stay in their jobs while being able to survive with the same basic things we all do (housing, food, electric, heat) - if they want more (expanded cable, et al) they could work two jobs for the perks, marrying someone who was working and use those funds for other things, etc.

[theHandpuppet]

4. Have you visited the Poverty Forum?

There are any number of threads there concerning the steady rise of poverty during the Bush tenure.

[theHandpuppet]

6. Here's one GD thread with lots of links

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1786400

[Lindacooks]

5. Well, the poverty rate has soared under chimpy.

Poverty rates declined to a 26-year low in 2000 of 11.3 percent. Then it went up to 12.7 percent in 2004 and is still climbing.

That's all I need to know.