Satellite photos of Beruit before and after the bombing campaign

[WilliamPitt]

Before on the left, ninteen days of bombing later on the right. This is on the NYT web page right now.

[malaise]

1. Holy Shite

I can't take much more of this.
Meanwhile, more leaflets.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5243758.stm

[Lindacooks]

2. Jesus Christ. Seeing those pictures, I'll bet the death count is

magnitudes higher than 600.

[FearofFutility]

44. Last number I saw was 875

and I'm sure it's much higher than that. I can't remember where I read it.

[Marie26]

90. It looks like this area was evacuated

days before the bombing. Which is a relief. I know it's still horrible, but at least there weren't people there when this happened. This neighborhood had more than ten thousand people.

"Dr Mohamed Bashir, general manager of Hizbollah's al-Rassoul hospital, leant back in his chair. 'We have 160 beds and all are full - with our usual patients. Since this war started, we have not received one person from Haret Hreik.'

Haret Hreik, Hizbollah's headquarters in the southern suburbs of Beirut, lies in ruins. Once home to tens of thousands, the neighbourhood is now a pancake of destruction. It bears silent witness to the futility of Israel's first 10 days of war in Beirut. For Haret Hreik was meant to be the tomb of Hizbollah's leader, Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.

There is no evidence that a single person died at the height of Israel's onslaught against Haret Hreik, a five-hour bombardment that provoked a counter-attack on Israel's third-largest city, Haifa, driving its inhabitants into shelters for the first time since the first Arab-Israeli war of 1948. It is a measure of the poverty of Israel's intelligence that those who ordered the air force into action on 16 July appear not to have known that Haret Hreik had been evacuated days before."

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1826935,00.html

[panader0]

3. That's horrible, very disturbing, just flattened, and that's from space

[Xeric]

4. These photos

should be evidence at a trial for war crimes at the Hague.

[Junkdrawer]

38. Imagine if this were Tel Aviv or Jerusalem...(link)

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/html/world/20060804_MIDEAST_GRAPHIC/index.html


:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[deaniac21]

113. The Hague is a city not the Hague.

[Xeric]

119. The name of the city Is actually Den Hague

which translates to The Hague. Been there. Nice place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague

[EST]

5. DAMN!

This looks like a magnitude 8 or better earthquake. I am reminded of the before and after pictures of Teheran, after the last big 'quake there.

[cool user name]

74. Dresden? Hiroshema?

[EST]

82. Been a while since I looked at pictures of the Dresden

firestorm but probably so. As I recall, Hiroshima pictures just showed a bit of geometrical pattern remaining, Nagasaki still looked like it once had been a city, however.

The most recent Teheran earthquake pictures were so dramatic-a lot like this-like a microchip layout made of soft modeling clay that somebody had sat on.

Strangely, this is actually making me nauseous-I think I'm gonna be sick.

[uppityperson]

6. wow, thank you for posting this. Unbelievable.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. I clearly see a hezbollah terrorist in the left one.

[ThomCat]

28. There was a terrorist in every one of those buildings

so Israel had no choice but to destroy all of them. Every one. It's Hezbollah's fault.
:eyes:

[Critters2]

79. They missed one?!

Time to get out the missiles again!

[Lerkfish]

8. STOP THE KILLING!

do you have any before and after shots of israel?
It'd be nice to compare them.

[truedelphi]

111. I read the daily stats on the rockets fired against Israel

100 rockets in -- two dead people.
The rockets Hizbollah uses are slightly glorified fireworks - if one landed on an average 3000 sq foot house, it might take out one third.

Compare that to the "tons" of explosives that Is. brags about dropping on its "tterrorist" targets.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. But, but, it's for their own good! "Birth Pangs", you know.

Regrettable.
Sad.
Tragic accidents.
Tsk. Tsk.
Such things happen.
We always try to avoid civilian casualties.
Mistake.
Rockets hidden in apartment buildings.
It's their own fault.
We warned them.
An investigation will be held.


Vietnam. Cambodia. Iraq. Lebanon.

Different murders, same excuses.

[AliceWonderland]

73. Yes.

Exactly.

[Lerkfish]

10. I went to the NYT website. its even worse if you enlarge the photo

it directly overlays before and after.

everyone should do that.

oh my god.

[uppityperson]

11. I did that too, overlays are amazing.

[dogday]

13. Me too--jaw dropped

:wow:

[Lerkfish]

15. I think we see why they don't want UN observers

[Lerkfish]

16. funny, I'm not seeing yet anyone who defends Isreal's actions in this

thread.

they would benefit from seeing these pictures, I reckon.

[VelmaD]

31. see post #30

It has started.

[ThomCat]

29. There is very little left for them to observe.

If the rest of the city looks like that part of it then I'm amazed that thousands aren't dead.

[bloom]

42. That's horrible. nt

[Phx_Dem]

65. The shadowing is a little different

on the before shot, which exaggerates the appearance of damage. (no I'm not saying it was done on purpose) Looks like all the schools and houses of worship have not sustained any damage.

[mopinko]

116. misleading, tho.

if we are looking at the same page-
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2006/08/04/world/middleeast/20060804_MIDEAST_GRAPHIC2.html

the before pick is color, the after is b/w. there is also a great deal of difference in the contrast between the 2. the after is adjusted to wash out a lot of contrast, and make things look flatter.
i am making no comment whatsoever about the situation, just on the subtle manipulation of the photos.

[kurth]

12. Proof of a scorched-earth, indiscriminate military campaign against

the Lebanese people.

[Lerkfish]

14. my journal entry on scorched earth policies

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Lerkfish/16

[mod mom]

17. winning the hearts and minds of the world. :( nt

[theanarch]

18. yes, winning the hearts and minds of the world...

...one atrocity at a time.

[daydreamer]

56. Excellent soundbite.

[cool user name]

75. This is Beirut.

This is Beirut on bombs.

:(

[Lerkfish]

19. keep recommending this thread, people!

its evidence of war crimes.

[Nimrod2005]

21. This is what I call crimes against humanity!!! This is real terror...

[EVDebs]

99. It's bargaining.

I heard on CNN that Hezbollah claims it will stop firing rockets into Israel if Israel stops bombing from the air.

Good luck on that one. The Israelis are now saying they're going to take out Lebanese 'infrastructure' and leave the country in ruins, since Hezbollah wanted a client state it now has one, in complete ruins.

[truedelphi]

112. Actually I think it's simply

That some neo con Zionists want some nice beach front property

[EVDebs]

115. Nah, already oil stained by a slick like Exxon Valdez.

If Israel wants to it can knock out Lebanon's water infrastructure. Then Hezbollah can build dams as future targets...It seems they all like to chase their tails over in the ME.

A really sad testament to man's inhumanity to man all around. "My tribe's/invisible friend is better than yours".

[mom cat]

25. Precicely! This is a clear war crime. Nothing justifies this ... nothing!

[Nimrod2005]

20. All of these a residential buildings - used to be, people's homes

They worked a life time to have enough to buy a house for their families, there is no isurance there for properties...etc. Plus nothing would have been insured for American bombs falling from Israeli Jets...

[Nikki Stone 1]

45. We have evolved to the point where we can destroy so much so quickly

NT

[Jacobin]

22. Shock'NAwe Redux

I'm guessing it will work about the same as the first time.

:-(

[MessiahRp]

23. Did those come from Google Earth originally?

I love that damn program... invasive yet fun.

Rp

[minkyboodle]

24. heartbreaking

K&R

[Cleita]

26. Truly disturbing. n/t

[KamaAina]

27. Distressingly reminiscent of the before and after photos of New Orleans

bear in mind that that, too, was primarily a man-made disaster, triggered by the levee failures rather than the hurricane itself.

Before:



After:



How many more??? :cry:

[bullwinkle428]

98. I thought of the Tsunami right away, after seeing these pictures...

[JackNewtown]

30. That is in the area around Hezbollah's HQ

I have ridiculed the "Israel has a right to defend itself" blank check talking point a few times but this was justified in self-defense. Israel had to destroy the HQ of an organization lobbing rockets into Israel.

[chimpymustgo]

33. Dammit that's the whole fucking country. Slaughter. Massacre. Destruction

No damn excuses for these WAR CRIMES.

[JackNewtown]

88. I'm on your side 90% of the way. Look at my posts

I am hardly a cheerleader for the neocons or one of those individuals who support anything Israel does. I am one of the most critical posters of AIPAC. However, if what the link says is true, that Hezbollah was HQ'ed there, Israel had a right to attack the HQ of an organization that is lobbing rockets into Israeli cities. If Israel can't attack the HQ of the very entity that is attacking it, what is it permitted to attack? If the link is false, I will resume my usual criticism of Israel's disproportionate, ineffective response that is only strengthening Hezbollah, constitutes illegal collective punishment of the Lebanese people, and is greatly increasing the terror threat to the United States by further adding fuel to the anti-US ferment in the Muslim world.

[Mr_Spock]

36. This was justified?

You are on my shit list.

[Little Star]

41. I thought that is why they bombed the

hospital in Baal-beck. How many headquarters does Hezbollah have? Also, I hear what you are saying but not all those buildings were headquarters. I thought that Israel had precision bombs that could easily target one building? But that much destruction, I have to disagree with your justification.:shrug:

[Henny Penny]

47. You have got to be kidding! n/t

[Lerkfish]

54. How would you feel if that was Tel Aviv?

would you still consider it justified? how about Washington D.C.? London? Paris?
would it still be ok?

I"m sorry, but you cannot justify war crimes. This is collective punishment, pure and simple, indiscriminate bombing and destruction of infrasgtructure.

where, oh where will it end?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

59. You know the area that well?

Damn, I would have trouble recognizing my own home from a picture like that.

You are good, dude!

[uppityperson]

64. which one was the HQ? Why bomb so many blocks out?

[GirlinContempt]

70. They have a stadium in their headquarters?

SWEET :eyes:

[scarletwoman]

76. No, these are the RESIDENCES of Lebanese Shi'ites.

South Beruit is the suburb in which thousands of Shi'a Muslims relocated after Israel's 20 year occupation of southern Lebanon.

Hizballah is also a legitimate political party in the Lebanese national government, they hold seats in Parliament, representing these now-bombed neighborhoods.

Would you justify bombing Belfast into rubble because Sein Fein might have offices there?

sw

[tuvor]

32. Yeah, george. They SHOULD stop just for the sake of stopping.

God damn, it looks like when a train runs over a penny.

[Phx_Dem]

34. does anyone know the scale of these pics?

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. Very roughly, the pictures are 800-1000 yards wide

There's a football field in the lower left, about 100 yards long. If you go the the nytimes.com front page, and look at their enlargement, there's an exact scale given.

[Mr_Spock]

35. This is so fucking infuriating. I won't forget this any time soon.

Israel is making a world of enemies as we speak.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BuyingThyme]

37. You can't negotiate with photographs.

[Ghost Dog]

39. Heavy pounding, in that quarter. Looks like the southern suburb of Dahieh

--> translates to eg. this on the ground:



http://www.whylebanon.net/i7a6+16.jpg

http://www.whylebanon.net/i7a6+18.jpg

http://www.whylebanon.net/i7a6+23.jpg

- But the city of Beirut is much larger (so there's still a lot left to destroy):

http://www.whylebanon.net/i7a6+14.jpg

(Source: http://www.whylebanon.net/index.php )

[Rex]

43. Flatten...people realize that Israel has the same weapons we do.

I'm not getting into the flame wars here, but Israel has the capabilities to flatten Lebanon and that is literal. Where is Bolton? Cheney? Condie Rice? Oh that's right, Cheney planned this out a year ago. :(

Some people WANT WWIII to start! No, some people NEED WWIII to start! My guess is that it is because of 911 and Iraq...a new 'distraction'. The ruling elite will just pimp out Cheyenne mountain and let us kill each other off. Like snakes crawling under rocks.

[Henny Penny]

51. Bolton, Cheney and Rice are boxing the bombs for the next shipment. n/t

[Rex]

52. That's so crazy and times are so crazy

it probably is true.

[leftchick]

46. and Israel isn't done yet. More Bombings as we speak...

Beirut residents warned by Israel

Beirut's southern suburbs have already been hit hard by Israel
Israeli planes have been dropping leaflets on southern suburbs of Beirut telling residents to leave ahead of new military operations against Hezbollah.
In Israel, the army has reportedly been told to plan a push into Lebanon as far as the Litani river, which is up to 30km (19 miles) north of the border.

Hezbollah has warned Tel Aviv could be attacked if Israel's actions intensify.

Lebanon says more than 900 people have died, most of them civilians. Israel has lost 27 civilians and 40 soldiers.

Israel's campaign began three weeks ago after Hezbollah militants captured two Israeli soldiers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5243758.stm?lss

[maxsolomon]

48. notice WHERE the damage is

it appears to be concentrated within the rough rectangle of the 4 arterial streets.

what neighborhood is this? is it a hezb'allah stronghold?

you bet your ass mossad says it is.

[The Witch]

53. the NYT links shows where the stronghold is and labels other

items of interest.

[allemand]

49. Not enough, apparently:

Report: 2 huge explosions rock Beirut

BEIRUT, Lebanon - Two huge explosions had rocked Beirut early Friday in what local media said were new Israeli airstrike on Hezbollah strongholds south of the city.

There were no immediate reports of casualties in the two strikes that hit at 12:55 a.m. Israeli had dropped leaflets late Thursday warning residents in the area to leave. Israel last hit the area about 2:30 a.m. Thursday.

Many of the neighborhoods in the region just south of Beirut proper lay in rubble from repeated Israeli attacks since the fighting began July 12.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_attacks_1

[Skidmore]

50. Will, OT, but what is that picture in your signature line?

On topic, the devastation in Beirut is horrible. Thanks for calling our attention to this.

[zulchzulu]

55. It's good to see my tax dollars going to help put blood on my hands

Cut them off now...

[bdamomma]

96. our tax dollars are killing people

what are WE going to do about this, perpertual war that's what these neo con fascists want. Damn them all, send them to the Hague please.

[stepnw1f]

57. And This is Defending Israel?

every action has a reaction.... dumb and just inhumane. This is not defending anything.... this is calculated murder by a fringe group in the Israeli government, and I hope they will be brought to justice someday.

[The Witch]

58. Reminds me immediately of the pics of Hiroshima...

before and after.

Disclaimer: I don't know if this is useful to anyone in terms of the comparisons you want to make between standard and nuclear war. I don't intend to make any point - you can draw the conclusions you want.

Hiroshima


Nagasaki:

[Pavulon]

67. no 875 dead vs 75k

no were near. Nuclear weapons even teensey little 20kt bombs dwarf all but the most destructive strategic strike.

Not that it is right.

[The Witch]

69. I simply wanted to present another set of before/after pics

Allow you to draw your own conclusions. Which you did.

[Snivi Yllom]

71. not comparable, the difference is a few square blocks vs an entire city,

The majority of Beirut is untouched. I wish the Times photos showed a wider area to compare and showed other areas of the city. This was specifically the area where Hezbollah was centered in Beirut.


Hiroshima was erased.

[Snivi Yllom]

72. Anderson Cooper just said the media impression of Beiruts damage is off

The impression is all of Beirut looks like the photos in the Times.

He said most of Beirut remains cosmopolitan, and in untouched.

This is about as precision as these kind of strikes can get.

[Mr_Spock]

84. Killing is just a beautiful thing huh?

I love the neocon viewpoint being promoted here on DU.

Limited surgical strikes with occasional "collateral damage".

Those who believe that crap are losing my respect - ALL of it.

[Snivi Yllom]

91. Israel could just as easily shell Beirut into dust

But it hasn't

[Laurab]

93. Why, isn't that KIND of them

that they haven't......yet. Maybe they're interested in self-preservation - I'm not sure bombing Beirut into dust would go over well on the world stage, although King George would probably be ok with it.

My sister-in-law has a ton of family still living there. I met many of them at my brother's wedding a couple of years ago in Boston. Lovely, kind and a few quite elderly, now all living in fear of what's next. For WHAT?

The (large) portion of the family in the U.S. hasn't slept much since this started. But, hey, they didn't shell Beirut into dust, and they haven't killed THAT many innocent civilians....yet.

[Mr_Spock]

97. Well, at least you aren't even trying to appear compassionate

I appreciate your admission - at least your honest.

[Lerkfish]

106. I admire their collosal restraint (sarcasm)

[Minstrel Boy]

103. If this were Tel Aviv,

would you be so nonchalant?

[scarletwoman]

60. Thank you, Will. Folks need to see this.

Alas, poor Beirut -- "The Paris of the Middle East".

Makes one wonder: if this were happening to Paris, France -- would the rest of the world stand by and give the bombers more time?

sw

[xultar]

61. You see. It is working. Hezbollah was apparently sending rockets

from all those locations.

There's no destruction of Civilian infrastructure.

There's only distrusting of TERRORISTS and their infrastructure.

[Marie26]

62. Incredible. nt

[Pavulon]

63. Need a scale. 3 mi by 1 mi?(nt)

[Maven]

87. No, not that big.

Look at the flash link below, and compare to the diagram of Manhattan.

Based upon the scale next to the photo, I'd estimate about 1200 X 3000 feet. That's still about the size of more than sixty football fields. Also remember that this was a densely populated area.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

66. Here's the flash from the NYT...

http://www.knology.net/~rareandfirsts/bombedBeirut.swf

[Misunderestimator]

80. Holy shit.

:(

[Marie26]

89. Thanks

It's shocking, but it does appear to be "targeted" at the area in the center that's labeled as Hizbollah offices. The labeled schools, mosques, etc. surrounding the area are still standing. This makes me feel a little better. The main extent of the damage seems to be in a 1500-feet square radius. That's big, but it's not all of Beirut. If this is the main area that's being bombed, it does seem like Israel is at least trying to aim at Hiz. areas, instead of bombing residential areas indiscriminately throughout the city. Still, it's an incredible amount of damage. 1 square mile = over 15 city blocks destroyed.

[zulchzulu]

68. Projected image on August 12th of Beirut

It's a guess...

[scarletwoman]

78. Kicking... (nt)

[althecat]

81. Hey Will... I reced your thread... will you rec mine....

http://tinyurl.com/nygvm

[4dsc]

83. And what give Israel the RIGHT to do this??

Absolutely nothing!! No right what so ever!! These are pictures of war crimes in action!!

[Fovea]

85. Wow, this looks very like what the New Jersey

did to the Druze highlands outside Beruit in the 80's.

Sabra and Shatilla did not make Israel safer, occupying Southern Lebanon did not make Israel safer.
When will Israel get the message? About the time we understand that occupying Iraq does not make us safer.

[Maven]

86. Awful, awful, awful. Right now it's only a small suburb.

But I wouldn't be surprised if downtown is next.

[burythehatchet]

92. Anyone remember Jenin?

I do.

[jonnyblitz]

95. yup.nt

[Lindacooks]

94. Kick

[EVDebs]

100. Ahmadi-nejad : Destroy Israel . Surrogate Hezbollah just following

orders

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/03/iran.israel.ap/index.html

Funny thing is the wrong country is getting destroyed. Can the Iranians say "oops" ?

[jonnyblitz]

101. everybody needs to see this devastation wrought by Israel. nt

[unkachuck]

102. it's a shame....n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

104. How is this better than intl. cooperation in intel and police work?

a new gov't in Lebanon, fledgling, barely getting even the brass name plates all correct on desks, and expect them to work miracles that even powerful nations cannot do (war on terror, my ass!). how is this better than working with the newly budding sense of progress that the nation was having? there was opportunity to build up intelligence and law enforcement relationhips, increased commerce, communication, and trust. and with those increases in ties, that empathic relationship and mutual love of peace growing between the ordinary citizens of both, old relics of violence and hatred would have had a greater chance to wither on the vine. scortched earth isn't the best method to weed the garden.

the greatest crimes of this new century is the squandering of such beautiful opportunities...

[Dead_Parrot]

105. Shit, looks like someone just took a mile-wide mallet to it. k&r, nt

[underpants]

107. Kick

I duped it. Ooops

[farmbo]

108. But but but...Rush said all those bombing deaths were...STAGED!

Memo to Dittoheads: When 1000lb bombs take out ten story apartments...PEOPLE DIE!

Deal with it.

[underpants]

109. Yeah apparently that was the RW meme

Amazing

[PATRICK]

110. Question about satellite photos

Is this from an open site one can subscribe to, enter address and actually zoom in on and scan any area? I thought one service was dated years ago. I could see my house, the dead car parked in the stone driveway and scan across to other homes, local traffic. To what extent can one even historically eavesdrop on that scale? With paid subscription you get more detail.

Like Crawford Ranch before a Bush vacation and after three months of chainsaw activity. I wonder how Baghdad compares to before and after the bombing and today?

[Generic Other]

114. Frightening

Truly.

[Wonk]

117. kick

[spanone]

118. I think it's called wiping a city off the map.

Thank God there were no 'innocents' there. :sarcasm:

[dogday]

120. In case anyone missed it

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/khtml/2006/08/04/world/middleeast/20060804_MIDEAST_GRAPHIC2.html