Report: Hezbollah used UN post as cover prior to deadly attack

[JohnLocke]

Report: Hezbollah used UN post as cover prior to deadly attack
Messages sent by the Canadian UNIFIL officer killed in the Israel Air Force attack on a UN post in Lebanon last week indicate that Hezbollah had been firing rockets at Israel from a location near the post "on a daily basis" prior to the IAF attack.

Several days before his death, Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener sent an email in which he wrote: "We have on a daily basis had numerous occasions where our position has come under direct or indirect fire from both artillery and aerial bombing. The closest artillery has landed within 2 meters of our position and the closest 1000lb aerial bomb has landed 100 meters from our patrol base. This has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."

Canadian media interpreted the message as an insinuation that Hezbollah had been using the UN post or its surroundings as a shield for launching Katyusha rockets at Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744393.html

[tuvor]

1. Information is power. Here's more. (No Hezbollah within a kilometer)

"This has not been deliberate targeting," he said, "but has rather been due to tactical necessity."

That last line has been read to imply that Hezbollah fighters also use the UN posts as cover from which to launch their rocket attacks and Israel is trying to hunt them down.

On the day in question, however, the UN stressed there were no Hezbollah spotted within at least a kilometre of the Khiyam post. Though that is not a great distance to cover in a pick-up truck full of small rockets.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/middleeast-crisis/un.html

[rockymountaindem]

6. Good article.

What's your personal opinion on this incident as a Canadian?

[tuvor]

7. An investigation allowing UN involvement would be nice.

Would be nice, too, if our PM were insisting on answers from the Israeli government instead of meekly accepting apologies. You know, just like the leaders of the countries represented by the other three peacekeepers who were killed in the attack.

Other than that, I'm at DU mainly to learn and to ask questions where the ME is concerned.

Glad that my posting the link to the article was worth your time.

[rockymountaindem]

9. I like the CBC

although my friends up in Canada always tell me that the CBC is in the pocket of whatever party controls Parliament at any time. I guess I should keep that in mind.

[tuvor]

11. I like having them around.

They provide a perspective that we wouldn't get otherwise.

As for whether they're in anyone's "pocket," well, who isn't? (It's not as simple as being dependent on the party in power, though.)

I can't imagine that there's anything broadcast anywhere that isn't filtered in some way by the time it gets to the viewer.

[rockymountaindem]

2. "This has not been deliberate targeting

but has rather been due to tactical necessity". I knew Israel wouldn't just go and blow up a UN post. That isn't just evil, but it would be totally stupid. When I first heard "Israel attacked the UN", I knew things were not as they seemed. Thanks for posting this.

[leesa]

3. Right. Sure. That's why Israel repeatedly agreed to stop bombing them

when asked to do so by the UN. This is such BS.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karmakaze]

5. Has anyone actually ever SEEN this email...

rather than just quotes of a Canadian General (remember Canada was one of the nations against a ceasefire)?

I have never seen the actual email in any detail, only quotes the general read out on a radio station. Also, how does this in any way change the fact that the post was deliberately hit with 3 guided missiles? Even if Hizbullah fighters we sitting on the damn wall, that does not excuse Israeli jets firing weapons into the UN post's grounds.

[madeline_con]

8. Hear! Hear! n/t

[poverlay]

10. I have to back Karmakaze on this. The guided missiles used had to

specifically target where they hit. They are extremely accurate and are visually targeted(Satellite and GPS). The U.S. makes great missiles. Too bad some conscience-less monster had to use them on innocents. They could have been targeted to hit close but not close enough to kill, the U.N. observers. Someone wanted those observers dead for obvious reasons.

[eyl]

19. You're thinking about cruise missiles

and even they miss occasionally

[poverlay]

33. Wrong. I know what they used. "Precision-guided aerial bombs".

These don't "miss" unless the bombadier can't tell the difference between a UN outpost and a Hizbollah firing position. (It's extremely obvious...kind of like a large red cross on an ambulance)
Allow me to reiterate, and please try and pay attention this time. These "precision" munitions use visual, laser, and GPS guidance. The chances of them missing are slim to none. Considering the fact that UN observers were informing the IDF for hours previous that they were taking fire, there is no "missed" excuse that is acceptable to logical~educated people.

[eyl]

35. "slim to none"?

you're a real optimist.

and again, AFAIK, only cruise missiles use GPS guidance.

"precision" munitions is something of a misnomer. It actually means their more likely to hit close to their target points than nonprecise munitions. That doesn't mean they never (or even almost never) miss.

[poverlay]

38. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it false. Think.

If these were mortars or even cruise missiles I might concede the point, but they weren't. Human and LASER guided ATG. VERY expensive. VERY accurate. (NO military would be using an ATG this expensive unless it was extremely accurate.)
Hours of previous alarmed notifications directly from the longstanding outpost to the IDF.
I would love to believe that no one wants anything but combatant deaths, but it just doesn't work like that. They're trying to achieve something specific and it is not peace.

Occams razor...

[poverlay]

39. Note: the favored ATG of the IDF, the GBU-28A/B ATG is GPS/Sat guided.

You know, the ones just rushed by the U.S. to restock the IDF...

[poverlay]

40. Note: the favored ATG of the IDF, the GBU-28A/B ATG is GPS/Sat guided.

You know, the ones just rushed by the U.S. to restock the IDF...

[poverlay]

41. Note: the favored ATG of the IDF, the GBU-28A/B ATG is GPS/Sat guided.

You know, the ones just rushed by the U.S. to restock the IDF...

[poverlay]

Note: the favored ATG of the IDF, the GBU-28A/B ATG is GPS/Sat guided.

You know, the ones just rushed by the U.S. to restock the IDF...

[poverlay]

42. Note: the favored ATG of the IDF, the GBU-28A/B ATG is GPS/Sat guided.

You know, the ones just rushed by the U.S. to restock the IDF...

[poverlay]

43. sorry dupe ... massive computer malfunction my bad

[eyl]

44. Case in point

even sophisticated machines can glitch.

[malaise]

18. Bingo n/t

[eyl]

21. The email story

is being carried on every major news outlet, though I can't find the actual full text of it (annoyingly, I saw a link to it yesterday, but can't find it now).

Anyway, gathered from UNIFIL press releases:

July 17

Initially, Hezbollah fired rockets from the vicinity of the village and subsequently the IDF fired into the village on two occasions

July 20

Hezbollah firing was also reported from the immediate vicinity of the UN positions in Naqoura and Maroun Al Ras areas at the time of the incidents.

July 26

It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Alma ash Shab, Tibnin, Brashit, and At Tiri.

July 27

It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Marwahin, Alma Ash Shab, Brashit, and At Tiri. The UNIFIL Engineering Contingent from China uccessfully disposed of one mortar bomb inside the Ghanaian battalion position, in the area of Marwahin.

Note the IDF isn't using mortars in Lebanon, AFAIK.

July 28

It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of five UN positions at Alma Ash Shab, At Tiri, Bayt Yahoun, Brashit, and Tibnin.

July 29

At the same time, it was reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of six UN positions at Tibnin (2), At Tiri, Beit Yahoun, and Alma Ash Shab (2)

July 30

It was reported that Hezbollah fired rockets from the vicinity of three UN positions in the area of Tibnin, At Tiri and Brashit. They also fired small arms fire from the vicinity of two UN positions in the area of Alma Ash Shab and Al Duhayyra.

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil/pr015.pdf">July 31

It was reported that Hezbollah fired rockets from the vicinity of this UNIFIL position prior to the aerial bombardment. Hezbollah also fired small arms fire from the vicinity of the same position. They also fired rockets from the vicinity of two UNIFIL positions in the area of Tibnin and At Tiri in the central sector.

[Karmakaze]

26. From the VICINITY not the post itself..

So why was the post targetted directly??

[eyl]

36. You're assuming

it was targeted, rather than the vicinity. See my post above regarding "precision" munitions.

[Marie26]

25. Here it is

And this is real. I actually posted it right after the UN post was hit before the names of the soldiers were released.

A Canadian soldier's report from South Lebanon -
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060718/mideast_lebanon_UN_060716/20060718/

[Karmakaze]

27. If this is the full email, then it does confirm what I was thinking...

Israel had no reason to target the camp itself. It is clear that they have previously targeted even extremely close Hizbullah positions without targetting the post itself. So what changed?

Also, note that it is NOT correct to say that Hizbullah was using the post as a shield, because the post was situated on high ground right in the middle of the most heavily contested piece of land. Hizbullah does not have to give ground in order to prevent damage to the UN post, all they have to do is not directly fire on the post itself, which this letter does not mention in any way - not once does the Major say that Hizbullah fired on the post.

So if Israel had previously targetted the immediate vicinity without targeting the post itself, why the change? Perhaps this part of the email can tell us:

"(5) Based on the intensity and volatility of this current situation and the unpredictability of both sides (Hezbollah and Israel), and given the operational tempo of the Hezbollah and the IDF, we are not safe to venture out to conduct our normal patrol activities. We have now switched to Observation Post Duties and are observing any and all violations as they occur."

The IDF in the past has shown that they don't like being observed by 3rd parties during war (USS Liberty comes to mind) and with the way the ground war was going for the IDF, it is plausible that they decided drastic measures were needed - measures that they wouldnt want unbiased 3rd parties witnessing.

[Marie26]

29. Right

They've cherry-picked the email to say what they want it to say. I saw the email on CNN & couldn't believe how they twisted his words to try to make it appear that Hiz. was sheltering at the UN post when it was hit. That wasn't what it was saying at all. And IMO, that letter also shows a number of reasons why Israel might have hit the post deliberately.

Maj. Hess-von Kruedener seems very professional & dedicated to his job. As he states, "Please understand the nature of my job here is to be impartial and to report violations from both sides without bias. As an Unarmed Military Observer, this is my raison d'etre." He says that his mission is to "report on any and all violations or activities that threaten the cease-fire and international peace and security here along the Lebanese/Israeli border, and Israeli Occupied Lebanon, and to support the UNSC resolution 1559, within our mission mandate." So, they are impartial & told to report on any violations by either side.

Also, he says that the UN post has a very good view of IDF positions: "Team Sierra is currently observing both IDF/IAF and Hezbollah military clashes from our vantage point which has a commanding view of the IDF positions on the Golan mountains to our east and the IDF positions along the Blue Line to our south, as well as, most of the Hezbollah static positions in and around our patrol Base." So, the UN Post was in a good position to see any activities by the IDF, and to report them to the world community. I'm thinking that the IDF did this deliberately to hide its military maneuevers from the UN.

[eyl]

37. Again

you're overestimating the precision of these munitions. Note that the email describes a bomb landing within 2 meters of the outpost - yet the observer does not consider that to be a result of deliberate targeting. That means a small miss - or a small error in target coordinates - would place the bombs inside the outpost.

[Scurrilous]

12. Previously catapulted here:

GD ~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1752133

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1748274


LBN ~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2417633

[NuttyFluffers]

17. "it's an accident!... wait, no, yeah, i really planned it all along."

i'm still trying to make sense of this... uh... flip flop? i'm not savvy on the "nuances;" probably because i'm slow... or is it because i have a memory?

[rooboy]

13. So Israel bombed the UN post whilst assuring them that it would stop...

when what it COULD have done was inform the UN soldiers that they were currently in the line of Hezbollah fire and that they should get out?

Even the excuses make Israel look like calculating butchers.

[David__77]

14. This is no way justifies the aggression and killings of UN personnel.

But then again, Israel sees every person in a wide area to be a legitimate target: Israel's Justice Minister proclaimed that to kill every person in southern Lebanon is justified, because "(a)ll those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

The IDF is taking a page from a certain playbook with its kill all, destroy all military strategy.

[Kailassa]

15. Wow, you're the 4th to begin a thread here with this same lie!

Canadian media interpreted the message as an insinuation that Hezbollah had been using the UN post or its surroundings as a shield for launching Katyusha rockets at Israel.

Check out which Canadian paper started this. Then check out the idiotic rumour they started re Iran earlier. A lot of people had to eat crow after repeating that one.

[Marie26]

32. It seems like Harper is trying

to give Israel cover. I wonder why?

[Sherman A1]

16. Without a complete impartial investigation

I would not accept anything said by anyone at this time. It is possible that it was a fog of war error, I tend to doubt that, but it is possible. Truth is the first casualty of war.

[LynnTheDem]

20. Yet his wife says it was indeed deliberate.

And 10 calls to the IDF over 6 hours, warning them they were hitting too close to the UN post, yet Israel's "precision" bombs hit the UN post "by accident".

Uh huh.

And Iraq did 911.

[MadHound]

22. Even if this is true(and we're not sure of that without an investigation)

It still doesn't make it any less morally reprehensible. Israel knew those UN troops were out there. If they were so damned worried about the rockets being fired in the area, then go in with the goddamn ground troops and take them out. Don't recklessly shell an area, you wind up with dead innocents. Of course judging by Israel's actions so far, dead innocents seem to be the farthest thing from their mind.

[stopbush]

30. Agreed. Israel still had a CHOICE to make.

They could have decided to not bomb a moving target BECAUSE the UN outpost was too close, or BECAUSE civilians and observers could be killed.

But they didn't.

[Marie26]

23. That's just spin

The Canadian officer reported that his post was often in the midst of shelling by both sides. Nowhere did he say that Hiz. was "taking cover" at their post. That headline is just trying to excuse the attack on that post.

[Spazito]

24. Incorrect. Hezbollah was NOT firing in the immediate vacinity of

the UN post when Israel bombed it:

According to a UN preliminary report, UN peacekeepers in southern Lebanon called the Israeli military 10 times in a six-hour period to ask it to halt bombing.

Annan has said Israel had given assurances to the UN that its positions would not be targeted by Israeli forces. In a briefing note to the UN, Jane Lute, assistant secretary general for peacekeeping operations, said the IDF had been repeatedly firing too close to the patrol base on Tuesday.

She said 21 strikes occurred within 300 metres of the base and 12 artillery rounds fell within 100 metres of it, with four hitting the base directly.

The strikes occurred despite the fact "Hezbollah firing was not taking place within the immediate vicinity of the patrol base," she said.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/07/25/un-lebanon.html

and adding to this:

Harry Bloom, eastern vice-president of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry Association, spent a year in the early 1970s patrolling the exact terrain where Hess-von Kruedener served.

snip

Bloom, now retired at 66, said he wasn't surprised by news that an Israeli bomb had hit the post - and he doesn't believe it was an accident.

"I agree with (UN Secretary General) Kofi Annan's comment that it seemed to be an intentional hit. It would have to be. The outposts are so well-identified with blue and white paint and flags. A pilot cannot mistake that outpost for anything else."

Bloom described repeated "altercations" with Israeli forces when he was stationed there.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=7eb2c665-888b-4025-8975-f405d1237e0e&k=7216&p=2

and this:

KINGSTON, Ont. — The wife of Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener says she has not given up hope her husband is alive somewhere in the rubble of his bombed out south Lebanon UN observation post, as she blamed Israel for deliberately targeting his neutral position.

snip

“Why did they bomb the UN site? In my opinion those are precision-guided missiles, then that is intentional — with three bombs.”

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=b2737d74-6906-4953-9bd5-29101885a22b

[smacky44]

28. And of course we should believe this e-mail from a dead person

because....? There is absolutely no corroberating eveidence that this was even a legitimate e-mail and the journalists on the ground (US) say this is not the case.

[Marie26]

31. It's real, it's just selectively quoted. nt

[mmonk]

34. Everyone has their excuses.

I don't believe nor disbelieve the report. But everyone has their excuses. No peaceful solutions.