I had NO IDEA there were so many M.E. 'Experts' Here On DU

[matcom]

just like I had NO IDEA there were so many in my office

i'd like to use this thread to THANK YOU ALL BOTH HERE ON DU AND IN MY OFFICE for the "Education" I have received the past few days.

and here I thought this whole time that it was a 'complicated' matter. most of you can sum it all up in a paragraph or so. sometimes a 3-word sentence.

to be surrounded by such brilliance is truly amazing.

:eyes:

[Robb]

1. There's sand there. n/t

:yoiks:

[CuteNFuzzy]

71. oil too, I hear

[northzax]

2. have you tried the gifted and talented group?

there it only takes two sentences!

[reichstag911]

23. Whereas morons can sum it up with just one:

""What they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over."

Your point being, I assume, that the "gifted and talented" know less than the average and mediocre?

[northzax]

29. yep, exactly my point

heck, I was never 'gifted and talented' but I've read "The Best and the Brightest" how'd that work out for us?

oh wait, the reason I was never 'gifted and talented' is because everyone is gifted and talented in some way. I don't recall anyone feeling compelled to put a label on me for being smarter than your average bear. for instance, I would never describe a human being as mediocre.

[reichstag911]

36. If you'd never describe a human being...

...as mediocre, then you haven't been paying attention, I think. And guess what, Halberstam's Best and Brightest weren't all that bright in the end, were they? So they went to the Ivies, big fucking deal. I did, too, but not with the family connections, and not with any overwhelming desire to rape my fellow Americans every chance I got, as long as I got richer in the process. GW went to Yale and Harvard; how gifted or talented is he? And McNamara, et al. were so fucking bright that they never really bothered to learn any of the history of the Vietnamese people before waging war on them. That's the kind of idiocy we still see, without even the veneer or myth of competence presented by Kennedy's advisors, in the Bush administration.

I'm interested in what people I know to be bright have to say -- not those that some politician or corporate crony deem as "brilliant" -- and given the uproar over the suggestion of a "gifted" group at DU, I'm guessing there's a lot less of those here than I'd have hoped.

And I am unsurprised that you were never considered "gifted (or) talented." And "everyone is gifted and talented in some way?" In what way is GW either (and I don't consider a fortunate birth to be a talent, nor do I consider complacent ignorance a gift)? Logically, then, if GW can be considered wholly without human merit, with no real gifts or talents whatsoever, it stands to reason, does it not, that he is not alone in his utter lack of redeeming qualities?

From Fight Club: "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake."

[northzax]

68. in what way if GW talented and gifted?

well, frankly, he has really good social gifts, that he doesn't use all that much. He may not have great book learning, or be all that logical or intelligent, from your perspective (which seems somewhat limited) but he does have incredible social gifts. he may waste them, but he does have them. ask anyone who has actually met him and spent time with him, in his heyday. he's not actually stupid, you know that, right? he just doesn't care. which is actually worse.

and I'm not surprised at all that you don't consider me gifted and talented, it's a problem with the genre, but I will put any test score I have ever taken up against yours, and unless you are truely remarkable, and I'm talking the top 1% of the top 1%, I will beat you. but since I don't consider that any sort of an accomplishment, simply an accident of birth, I guess we're even. if you don't consider fortunate birth to be a talent, then you can't consider anyone to be gifted and talented, since those are simply accidents of birth, just as a disability might be. how is it any less of an accident of birth to be born rich, or with a high IQ, or with Down Syndrome? all are pure accidents of birth. why celebrate one, and not the others? please, do explain why some accidents of birth are worth mentioning, and others are not.

please do. go right ahead. please explain to this poor simpleton why you disregard fortunate birth in some cases, and not in others.

oh, and by the way, anyone who quotes Fight Club should really reconsider their status in the world, if they think they are anything but a cog in the machine, cause they obviously missed the whole point of the book. or did you not actually read the book?

[hfojvt]

72. I never liked the label for other reasons

if someone says that I am "gifted and talented" that implies that a) I do not read, think and study and/or b) that I do not practice my musical instruments. It was like my dad said once, that I was the least athletic of his kids, but the only one with a high school letter. My mom thought I would be insulted when she said that my oldest sister was the smartest of her kids, but the way I figure it, even if I was not the best baseball player, I was still the one who hit far more (academic) home runs. That seems like more of an accomplishment than a gift, but I never got the accomplishments outside of the classroom.

[northzax]

79. good point

I don't think it means you don't put the work into it, though. I can see that sometimes it appears that way, but I don't like the connotation. Still, it's what you do with it that matters, not what you are born with.

How many people have the athletic ability of Micheal Jordan? probably hundreds, how many had the combination of drive, dedication and effort to turn that talent into brilliance? just one.

[Sapere aude]

24. Can we start an average and below intelligence group?

At least we could get the probles solved. I used to work with 3 Phd's and I swear they could not solve a simple problem because they had to have a complex solution every time. If the faucet dripped, they could not change a washer, they had to go to the river to make sure it flowed then to the reservoir to see that it was getting the water from the river and then to the levy to see that it held the water in the reservoir then to the damn to see that it let the water out of the reservoir then to the treatment plant to see that the water entered there and got treated then to the pipes under ground then to the pipes into the building then to the facet. "Yep," they would say, "the water flows so you have no problem."

Save me from the gifted and talented group.

[banana republican]

32. Don't worry 50% of the people are below average...

[Canuckistanian]

48. I did a study once about intelligence...

And surprisingly, I found that EXACTLY 50% of people were above the median. And even more surprisingly, I found the other 50% BELOW the median.

Who knew?

[robinlynne]

61. love it!

[BlooInBloo]

75. Biased study then... You never sampled an odd # of people...

[reichstag911]

40. I tried at...

... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5381851 , but it got locked, like all threads on the IQ subject. And who locked it, you may ask (or observe for yourself)? Why, EarlG, the man who gives us Top Ten Conservative Idiots of the Week. Clearly, low-IQ Repubs get their own DU feature, but high-IQ DUers who'd like to fraternize with our own peers are denied that forum.

As for saving you from the g&t group, don't worry. It doesn't exist, for one thing, and since you feel such antipathy, you wouldn't have to fucking join, would you?

[RagingInMiami]

46. Who is to say that the DUers with "high IQs"

are smarter than those of us who never got tested?

[reichstag911]

49. Then CHANGE THE CHANNEL...

...if the idea of the group bothers you so much.

[RagingInMiami]

51. This is General Discussion

An idea was presented and I spoke my opinion. That is what we do here.

And I will continue speaking my opinion as long as the channel remains turned on.

[reichstag911]

56. An idea for a group...

...which you clearly don't have to join, nor does it appear that you'd be inclined or qualified. Go rage to someone else, hermano.

[RagingInMiami]

62. No, I will keep raging where I so desire

And just how would one "qualify" to be in this group, if it had turned into a reality?

[BlooInBloo]

76. IMO, the quickest way to find low-iq people....

... is to find people who like talking about how high-iq they are, and how "they need to be with their peers" and the like.

If you geniuses want to secede, go right ahead and make your own elite-DU - I don't see anyone stopping you.

[The Magistrate]

3. As The Saying Goes, Sir

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is obvious, simple, and wrong."

[matcom]

9. no truer words have been typed Sir

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Ha! Love It!

[Atman]

47. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

BushCo of course, not DU!

;)

[Jim Sagle]

55. Fuckin' A.

[Guaranteed]

64. LOL, that must be the Thousand-Year-Old one. nt

[hlthe2b]

4. Amazing that this whole Middle East "problem"

has been simmering all these decades, given the "simple solutions" being offered, eh?

[Ian David]

5. See, the secret to peace is to get people to stop the killing shit.

I can be President!

Just say, "No!"

If someone says, "Hey, you wanna kill some Jews," you just say, "No!" and you tell a grown-up.

If someone offers you a targeted assassination after a terrorist bombing, you just say, "No!" and you tell your mom.

[Frank Cannon]

12. And it's "ironic" that no one's figured that out

At least, ironic to an idiot with a mouth full of food and a brain full of Jack Daniels.

[Lerkfish]

19. actually, there IS irony in the situation, though I doubt dimbulb gets it

the irony is that the US forced syria out of lebanon, because dimbulb thought their presence was causing terra terra. Now, he wants them to "fix it".

yes, there is irony.

[EFerrari]

52. That's irony? I thought that was strategery. n/t

[Lerkfish]

6. here's my one sentence solution to all the world's problems...

grab the world, and shake vigorously until it settles.

thank yew, thank yew very much...I'll be here all week.

[ChiciB1]

16. And Another One Sentence Solution....

War is what makes the WORLD go round!!

My answer: Go F--K yourself you idiotic leaders!!!!

[Ghost in the Machine]

25. Now I'm disillusioned....

I always thought that "gangstas" made the world go 'round... cuz I heard it in a song... "gangstas make the world go 'round, and if you live on the west side of your town, you gotta make them other fools bow down" ....

Now I have to go rethink my whole life....

[LoZoccolo]

7. WINNER!

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Ain't It Somethin? The 3 Words Don't Even Have To Be Spelled Right Either!

True geniuses they are, those keyboard warrior M.E. experts.

[bluestateguy]

11. I'm the first to admit that I am not an expert on this mess

My feelings on this matter are complex and not definitively in one camp or point of view. It would take me several paragraphs to fully explain my nuanced feelings about the Israel/Lebanon/Iran/Syria mess. I'd probably piss off people on both sides of the issue.

[matcom]

13. ah, don't bother

"Kill Them All" seems to work for most people

[Turbineguy]

14. Would this then

be the place to point out that the two kidnapped soldiers are Druze?

Or would that add an unnecessary complication?

[AllNamesHaveBeenUsed]

15. "sometimes a 3-word sentence."

sometimes a 3-word sentence.

As long as one says it with conviction...

[Fleshdancer]

17. that's because we're all gifted with IQ's in the 150 range.

In my awesome brilliance, I'll sum it up in just two words: war sucks.

Your welcome.

:D

[StClone]

18. I was giving solutions to Global Warming

I didn't know you'd plug it into "solution to ME conflict." I'll stop posting now so that you may have the soap box.

[Spazito]

20. Yep, we should do as the leader of the free world....

who obviously understands the complexity of the crisis and the Middle East:

"What they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit, and it's over," Bush told British Prime Minister Tony Blair at a leaders' lunch at the Group of Eight industrial countries gathering here.

:eyes:


I would take the discussions, with all the lack of expertise, taking place on DU over many of the leaders, especially the President of the United States, any day.

[BeHereNow]

21. Actually Matcom, it can be summed up in ONE word!

IRAN.

BHN

[jonnyblitz]

22. you might not remember but we discussed this briefly before so

I know which side you take on this issue. I find it amusing that the people here at DU you would disagree with and have the mindset you are referring to are the ones basically high fiving you on this thread! :rofl: :rofl:

[DancingBear]

39. You noticed that too?

The irony is almost too much, ain't it?

:hi:

[jonnyblitz]

43. it made me chuckle..

:hi:

[LittleClarkie]

26. That's the internets for ya

Everyone's an expert.

[nam78_two]

27. Everyone is an expert on everything nowadays

If you have read the wikipedia entry on a topic-all of it -you don't need nuttin' else...

Ever watched those libertarian charmers -Penn and Teller?
"We studied this issue for a whole week and we are here to tell you its all bullshit!"
(where "it" can be anything from global warming to foreign policy)

That seems to be about the level of confidence coupled with the lack of actual knowledge, with which solutions are offered up for any complex issue these days.

[Karmadillo]

28. Foreign affairs are quite complicated. They should be left to

big smart powerful important people like George W. Bush and Chris Matthews. Ordinary people like us shouldn't have opinions on this sort of stuff. It's like Iraq. Many silly DUers think we should have just avoided going to war there in the first place. How simplistic! We didn't recognize how complicated it all was and how complicated it all is. It's simply beyond our comprehension. We should just go shopping at the mall or something and let Dick Cheney and Tucker Carlson tell us the way things should be. Same with the Middle East. It all just goes over our head. Swoosh!

Even that Chomsky guy gets it wrong:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:1g3AFZ9rhvMJ:www.chomsky.info/interviews/200311--.htm+foreign+affairs+complicated+chomsky&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9

<edit>

Remember, intellectuals internalize the conception that they have to make things look complicated, otherwise what are they around for?

more..

[matcom]

30. sorry. haven't seen too many 'intellectuals' around discussing this

just a bunch of people typing mostly crap

[LittleClarkie]

33. That'll do for a definition of "internet" I'd say

A bunch of people typing mostly crap.

[Karmadillo]

34. My point exactly!!!!!

We're not intellectuals!!! We're just crap producers!!! It's not our fault, but it's all we can do. We can't handle the nuances of reality. It's just too damn complicated!!! We're just not up to the thinking power of the big powerful smart important people like Nora O'Donnell. It's like that crazy complicated memo that said Bin Laden was planning on using planes to attack targets in the USA. A gaggle of DU's crap producers would have probably thought the memo meant Bin Laden was planning on using planes to attack targets in the USA. It took big smart powerful important people to recognize it was much more complicated than it seemed and meant something else completely.

[LoZoccolo]

37. The strawman never really does it for me.

See you in November.

[lostnfound]

66. That's right. And especially for the merely emotional mothers like myself

who ought to be content merely to provide sons for the war machines of the world, never quoting Smedley Butler along the way.

For he was just another simple-minded fellow who misunderstood the superior intellect of his masters.


Emotional creatures who ought to keep quiet while greater minds are busy pontificating about strategy, lest we reveal our ignorance in thinking that killing is killing is killing.

[treestar]

31. You may as well accept the reality

Nobody thinks they have to be an "expert" to have an opinion on anything. And no one is going to accept another person's determination that they are NOT an expert.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. Opinions are like assholes...

Anyone who relies on the internet for expert opinions gets what they deserve.

[Stardust]

69. Uh, oh. I'm in Deep DooDoo now.//

[Pacifist Patriot]

74. It was said tongue in cheeck, but I really do doubt there are too many...

here who relyon the internet (or any single source that matter) for expert opinions. And boy do I hope people don't rely on it for medical care! When I shared my shoulder pain with some internet buddies I got everything from "you slept on it wrong" to "bursitis" to "shingles." Shingles?!

Cheers!

[CatWoman]

38. heh

they are doing much better than me.

Last night I was talking to Teena, and she mentioned that Israel was the only country to possess nuclear weapons, and I blurted out, "what about Pakistan"??

:blush: :blush: :blush: :blush:

[CatWoman]

58. DAMMIT!!!

I meant to say the only country in the middle east".

Kinda won't get the "joke" without that part.

[blonndee]

65. Heh. I thought *I* had missed something.

Here I was scratching my head going, "Gosh, I thought Pakistan DID have nuclear weapons..." :)

Don't feel bad. Yesterday I mixed up Pat Buchanan and Pat Robertson, even though the thread to which I was replying had the bugger's name right in the subject line. And MY subject line had the OTHER guy's name in it. And I did it right in front of everyone. :blush:

[Solly Mack]

41. Sabine, Stilgar and the M.E.

Sabine


and

Stilgar





I was cleaning out Sabine's and Stilgar's home today and talking to (at) them about world events. Stilgar loves to scoot around the hall, stop and do the "wave" (pictured) and then scoot some more. Sabine enjoys tapping on my feet and asking for snacks, especially peanuts. (pictured)

So here I am, talking, sweeping, refilling food dishes and water dishes - but mostly talking and not enough doing. I'm going through the pro's and con's and "what if's" with no real satisfaction - just trying to figure things out. Just talking out loud and getting all frustrated.

At one point I stop sweeping (again) and ask "what do you two think?"... I feel something soft and furry on my foot. It's Stilgar. He lightly landed, paused, and left me a poopy pellet. Sabine comes scooting by at almost the same moment Stilgar bounces off and she stops long enough to bite my toe.


I started laughing - not at them but at myself.

[alfredo]

42. Not a ME expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[varkam]

44. LOL!

:rofl:

[Nothing Without Hope]

45. I agree. Those who claim it is very simple, only the Israeli goverment

protecting the country and nothing more, are part of the problem.

Also part of the problem: those who, like Kos and Kevin Drum, say they won't write about the new round of MidEast violence because, they say, until both sides get tired of war, it won't stop. Guess they don't want to trouble their "beautiful minds."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/17/131952/052

Why I won't write about Israel/Lebanon/Palestine fighting

by kos
Mon Jul 17, 2006 at 10:19:52 AM PDT
(snip)

Me? I grew up in a war zone. And there was one clear lesson I learned -- there will never be peace unless both sides get tired of the fighting and start seeking an alternative.

It's clear that in the Middle East, no one is sick of the fighting. They have centuries of grudges to resolve, and will continue fighting until they can get over them. And considering that they obviously have no interest in "getting over them", we're stuck with a war that will not end in any forseable future. It doesn't matter what we bloggers say. It doesn't matter what the President of the United States says. Or the United Nations. Or the usual bloviating gasbag pundits.

When two sides are this dead-set on killing each other, very little can get in the way.

And I, for one, sure as heck have no desire to get sucked into that no-win situation. I just hope that war-fatigue sets in at some point.

As if it doesn't affect the rest of the world, as if we can do nothing except swallow what the corporate media chooses to let us know. As if it's best to ignore the pain and death and pretend it's just a dirty sandbox that we have nothing to do with. Can you tell: I disagree.

[Guaranteed]

63. I don't disagree with Kos, at all.

In fact, he's dead on.

If they don't want the fighting to stop, if they LOVE "open war," then they're going to feel the pain of it. And I don't give a shit.

Yes, there are the children who are caught in the middle, powerless. One can't help but care about that. But, the ones who are fighting- they don't. They don't care about their own children. They want open war.

They want open war.

Fine. Reap it.

[leftofthedial]

50. you're welcome. in my expert opinion:

they'll kill each other until the last person on one side runs out of strength.

they never stop killing each other.

sometimes, they kill each other more efficiently and in greater numbers than at other times.

assholes who aren't directly involved always use the perpetual killing to justify their own actions and to further their own ends, usually political or financial.

[fishnfla]

53. The Arabs and the Jews hate each other

It gets more complicated than that?

War is extremely simple, like hate

Peace is very complicated , like love

[Cleita]

67. In real life, at least in my neck of the world, I haven't found

that to be true. Mostly each camp wants the same thing the other camp wants and war isn't it. The negotiating table with some good minds on both sides hammering out a solution could be wondrous. It's time for their people to dump their political players and warhawks out of the picture and get their best people in there to make this happen.

[MissB]

54. You sound frustrated, Matcom.

I usually offer that people might want to sit down and read Thomas Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem for a little background on the region.

I haven't spent much time reading the Middle East threads. I assume the board is full of experts?

[Odin2005]

57. Everybody thinks they are experts, nowdays.

And If you try to tell them they arn't you are declared "Elitist Scum." :eyes:

[Guaranteed]

59. Fuck 'em both. Simple and beautiful.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there really aren't any angels involved in this dispute. No one is "taking the high road," that's for sure.

The sympathy store is closing. Been giving it out for free for too long. Now, maybe people should actually earn it- through their actions.

So, I'll stick with my three-word sentence. Fuck 'em both.

[rug]

60. To fill you in, Matcom, consider this:

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/2005/12/img/Gabrielle%20Bou%20Rached,Miss%20Lebanon%202005.jpg

[Crazy Guggenheim]

70. Matcom! That's the most beautiful thing you've ever said.

:beer:

[slide to the left]

73. I enjoy the sarcasm

However, Middle East studies was my minor in college and I just recently graduated. I plan on getting my masters in Terrorism studies.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

77. Tee hee.

I just posted this while arguing with someone in another thread. I suspect this makes me part of the problem.

[Ganja Ninja]

78. I did stay a a Holiday Inn Express last night. n/t

[Wonk]

80. kick