Hillary's Remarks: Stupid, Offensive and Pandering

[cali]

Flame away, but I think Larry Sabato, who I don't often agree with, is right on this one. He said she'll come to regret playing the race card, and that's just what she did. Are people discussing the meat of what she said? No, and they won't. All the commentary will be about the plantation remarks.

Let's not forget that Hillary has supported sending more troops to Iraq, spending more of our money on that hideous, immoral mess. She's waffled on issues like flag desecration and been mealy mouthed on choice.

Closer to home for me, she's actively supporting a tire burn in upstate NY that will spew dioxins and other noxious chemicals into Vermont. My repub Govvernor is fighting against this, and recently sent Hillary a letter chastising her for her support of this evil little project.

Hillary's a shameless opportunist, and just about the last dem I'll support.

[raccoon]

1. I wouldn't support her either; she's Bush lite. nt

[bpilgrim]

103. listen to hillary's and gores remarks and rebuttals here - > mp3

http://GlobalFreePress.com

peace

[Cooley Hurd]

2. The "plantation" comment wasn't a great idea, that's for sure...

...only because it could be easily spun by the repigs and their bedfellows in the corporate media.x(

[formernaderite]

64. A white woman should NEVER assume she can use that reference honestly

I watched the clip of her speech...insulting how she tried to change her english cadence for the audience as well.

Look, in the end it doesnt' matter....I don't think she'll ever be anything other than a senator from NY. She has no conscience other than political expediency...so it's not like anyone buys anything she says.

[mdmc]

71. it won't hurt her in NYS

but perhaps in 2008....

[KyuzoGator]

3. Playing the race card on MLK day is pretty goofy.

I'm inclined to agree with you, cali.

[rodeodance]

5. Her audiance was in Harlem. I think apropo for this group. I will not join

the RW who have been on TV demonizing her for this.

[BushOut06]

10. it is rather ironic, would you not say?

The gophers live for moments like this, when they can pounce on any little mistep. Of course, they won't talk about the speech itself, or what the "plantation" was referring to. And repugs complaining about someone being racist, doesn't that ring a little hollow?

[karynnj]

56. It also isn't racist as it's clear she feels the current state of the

House is bad.Saying it's like a plantation, implies plantaion, bad; House, bad.

[JuniperLea]

11. Well received in Harlem

I'm staying left too. Watching the RW eat their own is so distasteful I won't join in here.

I'll support any Dem brave enough to speak up against this evil administration. I may not vote for her, but I applaud her in this instance.

[chimpymustgo]

16. Apropos for "this group"? To compare Congress to a g*ddam plantation?

Stop and think about this okay? So in front of a Jewish group, let's compare it to a concentration camp. Yeah, that's it. Her remarks are stunningly callous and pandering and just plain STUPID.

[LittleClarkie]

63. It all depends for me on how her Harlem audience

reacted. Just as some people said that Dean's comments were racist and over the top when he talked about the only black people Republicans saw were the ones who served them lunch (or something like that), if the audence was mostly black, and they recieved it well, where would I, a painfully white Norweigian, get off saying that it was offensive.

Know what I mean?

I often have a problem with Hillary. But I try to evaluate comments like this while forgetting who said them, so as not to include my bias against her. A good way to do that would be to see how her intended audence reacted. Stony silence or raucous applause or polite clapping?

[goclark]

76. Me either, if anyone has a right to say it in Harlem, a Clinton does

Funny how everyone in the audience got it right away.

I heard her say it on TV and she expressed my feelings exactly!

Black Americans understand, and White America needs to wake up and understand that they are being treated just like SLAVES!!

I was proud of her for saying it, and surprised that she said it!

Everyone is saying that she is too "middle of the road" that she is too wishy washy on the War etc.

Well, she was not wishy washy yesterday!

Recall that when everyone else was not fighting for the Clintons, Black Americans( Rangel, Conyers and everybody) were with them 100%.

She was with people that cared about her and she knew it.

She is a smart politician and she chooses her words carefully, I have heard her speak without notes and she was BRILLIANT!

So, if she said it, she meant it!

Wake Up White Americans, Bush has ALL of us on Plantation America and it belongs only to his Crooks.

[AZBlue]

86. Well said! (nt)

[yardwork]

108. I won't criticize the senator from New York for this

Her comments were well-received by her audience at that event.

It's hypocritical of the right to complain about her comments when they themselves constantly use the word "plantation" to refer to the Democratic Party.

The right are hypocrites and they love it when the left fights among themselves. I won't give them that satisfaction. Let the people of New York judge their senator.

[linazelle]

38. So every reference to slavery is "the race card"? NOT

The point was the Congress and the Senate ARE subservient to King Boosh.

[Ishoutandscream2]

47. "The Race Card" is right wing lingo

Right up there with "death tax," "class warfare," etc.

[rodeodance]

90. well, said. Lets all remember this before we slam Dems

[robbedvoter]

114. Using RW taling points such as "race card" is pretty revealing

I am inclined to know why wou're here Kyuzo.

[still_one]

4. I detest Hillary, but what she said is accurate

they are destroying the middle class and creating a plantation mind set

What bothers me is NOT the words, but the lack of action for the last six years

Let's see if they put up when it counts, that is, the Alito nomination

[Clark2008]

29. But not in Congress.

Congressmen and women are - to continue to use this metaphor - part of the plantation owners and overseers.

We the people are the corporate slaves.

So how is Congress run like a plantation? It's more a convention of elites discussing how to get more work out of the proletariat without giving them anything in return.

[still_one]

34. Give me a Clark/Feingold ticket any day in 2008

[Clark2008]

50. Amen!

:bounce:

[leveymg]

6. More opportunistic, than anything else.

As for her stated positions on other issues, exactly what one would expect of a triangulating Dem Presidential Wanna-Be. She's the one . . . the Repugs want nominated.

[mattclearing]

7. Yay, let's all bash Dems for stating the obvious.

Whatever.

[cali]

14. Did you even read

what I wrote. I'm hardly bashing all dems. I'm expressing my contempt for one particular dem. And as I noted it's not just her remarks yesterday, it's her performance in the Senate. As far as I'm concerned she's far more contemptible than Lieberman. She tries to have it every which way. This triangulating shit is not acceptable. And nothing excuses her support for tire burns without scrubbers. Nothing.

[mattclearing]

15. Yes, I read what you wrote.

It doesn't change the fact that what she said is true, and that you are bashing a Dem for standing up and telling the truth. If it were Howard Dean, would you react differently?

[cali]

17. I don't think so

I've been critical of Dean- and supportive of him- depending on the circumstances, for many years now. But the point is, Dean has stood up for things. As far as I can tell, Hillary hasn't.

[mattclearing]

18. Well, she's done it now, and I would suggest applauding.

Maybe she'll do it more often if she thinks it's politically advantageous to do so.

[radio4progressives]

51. I'm no Hillary Fan but i agree with Tasteblind..

I didn't catch her remarks/speech - if there should be critisim with Hillary - let it not be about stating the obvious especially on a basic but never spoken of truth such as this issue. Congress indeed has been acting like the Plantation, but what should one expect?

it is after all, an institution based on White Supremacy and it continues to exude white supremacy in this year of 2006.

And Judge Alito's nomination, like that of Roberts is the ultimate product of the White Supremacy which continues to be safeguarded.

The environmental issue you speak of needs to be given full exposure and critisim on that matter if merited. The war and other matters yes.

but on the plantation remarks? if it's the only honest comments she made in that speech, then she needs to be praised for it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. Hillary is the candidate that is being selected for us by the Media, and I

cannot stand her. No flames here. Her remark about the House being a plantation was downright Stupid, and I have absolutely no respect for her. She pandered the war, and still stands by her decision. I voted for her once, and never again.

[Loonman]

9. She'll say amything to anybody

For a shot at the Oval Office.

[ixion]

12. I am not at all impressed with Hillary's performance

in the years since she's been a senator, I've seen her do nothing more than pander to the RW. I always suspected she was a closet RW'er, but I think the fact that she's playing along so nicely with BushCo is ample proof, IMO.

[MH1]

13. What kills me

is that her comments are plastered all over MSNBC. Yet no mention of Gore's incredible speech.

:banghead:

[VaYallaDawg]

19. Hillary is busy promoting her sole agenda. Which is, of course ....

[montana500]

20. Why dont we save the thoughtful liberal act for a non-election year?

seems to be the prudent thing to do. The "thoughtful liberal acts" hasn't been so hot in winning elections lately. What has been? Stinging, partisan attacks.

[WePurrsevere]

21. Please give me a link about Hillary supporting this "tire burn". NewsMax

is the only "news" source I found so far. I've found a few activist sites saying she and Pataki have been silent so far and news about the Vermont Gov writing her but I haven't found anything about her "actively supporting a tire burn in upstate NY" even in the Times Union which is the big newspaper out of Albany (of course I must say their search engine is not very good at all so maybe I missed it).

As one of her constituents in Northern NY I'd like more real facts and information before I write her blasting her stance on this so would truly appreciate the help with news links. I can't imagine the residents in NY towns around this paper mill are all too thrilled with the idea either... burning tire smoke is nasty stuff. (I remember it all too well from a small tire landfill fire near where I was living many years ago.)

Although the amount of old tires just lying around being a hazard and taking up much needed space in landfills (and sometimes catching fire and burning out of countrol on their own) is a very serious problem I don't feel just burning them for fuel is a good idea either... certainly not until an environmentally safe way of doing so is developed. OTOH recycling them as roofing shingles is pretty cool from what I've seen.

Anyway... thank you for mentioning this... it's a bit of news I hadn't heard since we don't get the local paper currently.

[cali]

24. It's been all over the VT papers

but the best place to go for information on the Ticonderoga tire burn is probably VPIRG, (the Vermont Public Interest Research Group), or the Vermont Government website.
www.vpirg.org/pubs/2005.05.04_7D_Davis.php

[yardwork]

109. PIRG was founded by Ralph Nader

Just sayin'.

[Jacobin]

22. Let her flame out early, so we can have a candidate in 2008

who I can vote for without twisting my own arm behind my back.

[mtnsnake]

23. What's stupid and pandering is this thread

If any other Democrat had the guts to say what Hillary just said about this administration, this forum would be having a collective orgasm right now.

If John Kerry was the one who had said it, there would be 200 threads on it, all with 150 recommendations for greatest page.

[robbedvoter]

25. Agree. No big Hillary fan, but this is shrill and idiotic.

You are right about your "if kerry said it"

[LittleClarkie]

99. Ditto, no big Hillary fan, but good for her

My perception of the Kerry thing is different however. He doesn't get as much flak as Hillary, but even when he makes a strong statement, his threads often turn into flame fests. They're about half split among the usual suspects on either side, and a few folks wandering into the crossfire. We Kerrycrats ain't that numerous.

Now if Conyers, Dean or Murtha said it, then you'd have the massive orgasm you're describing.

[linazelle]

28. AMEN. nt

[Libby2]

30. You said it !!

[cali]

31. Umm, no.

I'd be offended by any other dem who said this. Let's think about this for just one moment. Plantations were places where people were treated in concrete and atrocious ways, resulting in centuries of lost lives and lost families. As someone up thread pointed out, would it be appropriate if Hillary went in front of a Jewish group and compared the house to a concentration camp? And what's the difference?
Words mean something. This was an injudicious comparison. Beyond it being offensive to me, I thought it was just plain stupid. She should have realized that this remark would become the focus of the speech and not her condemnation of the house repubs.

P.S. I was no JK fan. Thought he ran a terrible campaign.

[linazelle]

37. Your comparison of a plantation to a concentration camp makes

no sense. The point is Congress and the Senate are subservient to the Executive Branch. Like it or not, that's the point being made here. There is no point to be made about concentration camps--there is no comparison.

[Sparkman]

84. Would you characterize 19th century RESERVATIONS, as concentration camps?

Cause I would, agreeing with Howard Zinn, that they were nothing more than concentration camps.

[robbedvoter]

89. Guess what? Unless you're black, it's not for you to protest it.

People like Conyers endorse this.
me thinks some protest too much. It's disingenuous.

[samhsarah]

44. Oh you are SOOO RIGHT!!!!!

Hillary Clinton is just great!!!! WOW!!! I sure do love her so!!!! The way she stood behind Murtha when he called for an end to the war in Iraq was just F*&$ING AMAZING!!!! And now let's just sit here on pins and needles while we wait for her to applaud Gore for his speech yesterday, or lead the filibuster against Alito, or call the Bush Cabal out on their Iran propaganda campaign!!!! HILLARY YOU ARE MY HERO!!! OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that a big enough orgasm for you?

[karynnj]

62. There were several threads praising this

I personally think it was not as bad some suggest because it means the media has to say the next line to explain it - that Democrats have no say or even ability to speak in the House.

It's not the administration but the Republican leadership of the House. It also wasn't as good a hit as some suggest because the metaphor doesn't immediately click with what she wants to say.

If Kerry said this (or rather made one of the sharp, but polite cracks he is expert at), there would be a thread or 2 - it would start out positively, then would degenerate with comments absolutely not related to the topic. It's happened enough that it's even predictable which crack several persistent opponents will make.

[mdmc]

73. I'd like to hear HRC say it again, outside of Harlem

silence

[stepnw1f]

75. Great Point! (nt)

[Adelante]

100. Tell it. mtnsnake

"If any other Democrat had the guts to say what Hillary just said about this administration, this forum would be having a collective orgasm right now."

Aint it the truth?

[jarab]

26. I believe we should forego the expectation of anything

productive from HRC until after the 2008 elections.
There is the idea within her circle that she is ordained to be President - or at least make a hard run for it.
EVERYTHING she does at this point is prefaced on that race. And, Bill must be in that small (?) circle, too, because he's playing to the larger audience (going along to get along, perhaps).
Whatever is politically expedient at this point thru 2008, I fear. That's jmo, of course.
...O...

[linazelle]

27. Give me a break. Gore said the very same thing in a different way

the House and Senate ARE subservient to the executive branch. But you don't see Gore's remarks anywhere today, do you? Were those remarks not important? The "race card" ploy is just a way to divert attention from the truth of the remarks. As for "shameless opportunist"--a tire burn is shameless opportunity? And tire burning is "evil." Get a grip.

[cali]

33. Again

Words count. Gore's speech was brilliant, and substantive. He managed to point out abject corruption of the repub leadership, without making stupid analogies.

As for the Ticonderoga tire burn. It's clear you know zippo about it. But yes, spewing dioxins over Vermont farms, not to mention mercury and a whole slew of other toxins, is evil. Get some info before you tell me to get a grip. Maybe you're OK with environmental pollution, I'm not.

[linazelle]

35. "Gores speech was brilliant..." And you don't hear a word about it

do you? But you do hear about Hillary?

If it takes less-than-tactful words from a brilliant woman, then so be it.

[jsamuel]

49. umm... I heard more about Gore's speech than Clintons...

don't want to jump into the argument, but I thought that was glaring at me...

[MamaBear]

43. Thanks

Thanks for the info on the tire burn. I live downstate, and it was the first I had heard of it.

Figures Clinton would rush to support the "business" community without regard for the earth or the people.

I wish we could outgrow the myth of the Clintons so some real leadership could arise in our party, but the Corporatist dems aren't havin' it.

I'll pass around the article on the tire burn to some folks I know here who are active in environmental matters. Perhaps we can get some letters going to somebody here in NY who could help.

[seabeyond]

32. i thought the plantation thing was stupid. why i say we dems cannot

play the same stupid games that the repugs do. that so many on this board shout we do .... or they walk from the party. it never works with a dem, these stupid sound bites. the dems that dont give a shit if someone is gay got their ass kicked for calling mary cheney, an outed lesbian, a lesbian,.... bah hahahah. how stupid

kerry looked and sounded totally unnatural being so manipulative, didnt work at all

yet, people keep insisting our senators do this shit.

and then when the congress people do, and it sounds stupid, media repugs and dems ignore all that person said in a kick ass speech and focus on that one moemnt.

and so many on the board will jump on media and repug banner and beat the dem up

what hillary said in her speech was excellent. saying exactly what so many on the board is telling our senators to say. she got little coverage if any, for those of you that say media will play our stuff, if dems will only say it. i read it on the board.

and here is a thread, trashing hillary. hillary is not a favorite of mine, but seldom do i actually hear what hillary said. so i was interested in her speech. i appreciated it because probably i dont support hillary like i should. i am not a fan. and i dont like NOT supporting our dems, when they have earned it. so i value the fact that this speech actually got out for me to read. probably the only reason is so she can be bashed about the word plantation

[radio4progressives]

53. Why shouldn't we talk about White Supremacy, instead?

That's really the issue that seems to be pissing everybody off, and I find that interesting. My respect for HRC just went up a notch or two (which is way down there near the bottom of the measuring stick) just knowing she dared to mention what no one else dares to talk about.

Even Liberals. Amazing.

[seabeyond]

57. hey..... i am all for talking about it. i have been for three decades

and i am not done talking about it. as racism has raised its wicked head once again. i have confederate flag flying across the street from me. they had a truck drive up in their yard the other day with a huge ass clothe kkk sign on their whole back window. i am all for talking about it. i talk to my young white sons often, about their responsibility and what their fellow white guys are still doing. why so many people are angry at them right now.

i guess that is my point, doing it in little "powerful" sound bites, or cute wording doesnt work for dems. we are really good at simply talking about the issue in sincerity though

[radio4progressives]

83. Racism is at the root of the Great White Plantation aka Congress and the

White House DESPITE all the appointments of Condi Rice and other positions that are filled with people of color, all token bush licker's that are enablers of the system that they should be fighting.

Maintaining White Supremacy in our justice system is at the very root of the SCOTUS nominations, which by extension is at the root of our entire system of laws that govern the people.

White Supremacy is the word that no one will speak of - people say racism but that loses the meaning when we don't address the root cause which goes beyond hatred and bigotry which are mere by products of the very system that fosters and nourishes hatred and bigotry.

so for that, Plantation is getting closer to the point. but let us not criticize someone for having the rare courage to speak on this matter, and let us not dismiss this as pandering and "playing the race card".

Though she might be in fact be doing that, but I would suggest reserving that criticism when she panders to the Evangelical Zealots and the War Profiteers first and foremost.

[alcibiades_mystery]

105. I agree

The people that are balking at the plantation thing have race issues, full stop.

[SaveElmer]

36. Had any other Democrat used these exact words...

Everyone here would be jumping for joy...

[slestak]

40. I wouldn't

Doesn't matter who says it -- Kerry, Dean, Clark, Boxer, any Dem you can think of -- it would still make me wince.

It's a cheapie, a soundbite. Doesn't matter how it's used, or the context around it, because the media just pulls out that one word and runs with it.

You think Sen. Clinton, as long as she's been in the public eye, doesn't realize this? The whole thing seems pretty self-serving to me, especially on a day when Al Gore delivers a terrific speech that not only questions, but offers solutions.

And, no, I'm not a big Gore fan. I have utmost respect the man, but this has nothing to do with any wound I may feel that Hilary Clinton stole the limelight from Gore.

[oasis]

59. John Conyers or Harry Belafonte need to complain about Hill's

"plantation" comment. If Conyers doesn't complain is he a pandering, DLC, corporate shill ? :sarcasm:

Edit to add: Harry Belafonte.

[robbedvoter]

88. Funny you should say it - Conyers endorses it!

here's the thread on his remarks:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=167925&mesg_id=167925

[Raster]

39. Folks, it's time to put aside Hillary as the great white hope.

She hasn't got the stones for the fight and no clear vision of what must be done. And finally, I dare you to tell her apart from most of the rethuglicans. Hil is no leader. She's not going to stake out a position unless the National Geographic survey team has come in and done the prep work and set up a base camp first. She really is bush* lite, just like most of the Dems in Congress. They're a bunch of wimps that are scared of their own shadows. I'm beginning to wonder if any of the Dems at the national level are capable of leadership in these perilous times. And no pining for the Big Dog either, his leadership style no longer has relevance. We need new, fresh blood that is willing to look bushco* in the face and then slap the snot out of them. We are losing our republic. The time to act is now.

The only thing you get from taking the high road is a bloody nose.

[seabeyond]

48. dont you support dem senators to speak out? why do you hate america?

dare to tell her apart from a repug. you dare me..... without any brain power at all, tell me how universal health care isnt opposite of what repug wants? did i pass your DARE?

[Raster]

85. Hil and universal health care was a long time ago in an administration

far, far away. Hillary speak out? Sure, as long as an advance team has polled EVERYONE within fifty feet to make sure they don't have a problem with her position.

[VonDoomPhd]

72. Drowning they are...

Fact: Hillary is indeed Bush-lite.
I wince every time I hear some right-wing, factually-challenged pundit refer to her as an unrepentant liberal and radical feminist.
Hillary's problem, and the problem infecting most of Dem leadership is that they still hold on to the sparkling eidolon of the Centrist-Democrat. They are forever fixed on the Halcyon days of Bill Clinton and believe his two-terms were indicative of the moderate Democrat's power and popularity. Nevermind that Ross Perot was the major factor in both elections. Nevermind that centrist Dem after centrist Dem keeps losing and losing big time.
By trying desperately to appeal to those fabled "moderates" and "swing-voters" and by padding each of their public speeches with qualifiers and non-commitals, all moderate Democrats do is push the center ever farther to the right.

The GOP dominates because it believes in its base. It believes in selfishness and ignorance.
It believes in money and fear.
After their disastorous presidential losses and failure to roast Clinton on the impeachment spit, the republicans did not attempt to become more like the democrats.
Fuck no.
They went harder to the right than ever.
And. They. Won.

When is the Democratic Party leadership going to realize this? When are they going to understand that liberal is not a dirty word?

The time for a neo-progressive revolution is now and Hillary Clinton has no place in it.

[FloridaPat]

41. How about * hanging MLK? Where's the outrage on that?

What Hillary said I have to agree with her. Too close to what the repubs have in mind I guess.

[samhsarah]

42. the talking heads in the M$M seem to think Hillary's strongest opposition

will come from those radical left-wing nutjobs in her own party. Being one of those looney left wing commie pinkos myself, i have to say that for once maybe the M$M got something right. I hope Hillary hears the message loud and clear. Hillary, don't go away mad, just go away.

[Bethany Rockafella]

45. Nope, I don't agree with the Republican.

Hillary spoke the truth and they know it. They are pissed. Good! So Hillary makes a reference to the Republican party being like on a plantation, big deal. How many times have I heard Republicans say the blacks vote for the Plantation party i.e. the Democrats?

[iconoclastNYC]

46. She'll get my primary vote when she peels it out of my cold dead hands

But I did like that she was criticizing Bush. Interesting it came on the same day as Gore's speech. Maybe to suck the oxygen out of the story?

She's a DLC democrat, and I hope she stays in the Senate.

[SaveElmer]

52. Right on target...

Show's the irrational hatred of Hillary that is pervasive here. Then in denying their irrationality, they spout even more untrue hysterical criticisms.

I think what is driving many nuts, is that deep down they know Hillary will very likely get the nomination, and they will be forced to decide whether to support her or not.

[cali]

61. Hardly irrational

I gave substantive reasons for not supporting Hillary. And if you care to go to the vpirg site I linked to, you'll see that my criticism about the Ticonderoga issue is true. I had a hard enough time supporting Kerry because I felt his vote for the war was based on political opportunism. Let me add that your post is not only far more irrational than any of mine, you indulge in ad hominem attacks (ie describing people who disagree with you as possessed of irrational hatred). If Hillary's the nominee, I'll hold my nose and vote for her. Hardly a decision that has me in an agony of indecision. Try again.

[SaveElmer]

66. Link please...

I haven't read all of your posts...and in fact I was not referring to you specifically. But if you want to provide me the link you were talking about I will be glad to look at it.

Thanks

[cali]

79. The link

is in my post- #24- on this thread. It's the Vermont Public Interest Research Group. It details Hillary's support for, and my repub gov's opposition to the Ticonderoga tire burn.

[oasis]

54. Hillary's attack on Bushco prompted a CNN poll. She's "on the mark" and

well on her way to the Democratic nomination in 2008.

[progressivebydesign]

55. The audience applauded wildly... sounds like she was fine.

Why the HIllary bashing? Laura Bush gets more respect around here..

[Vidar]

58. I don't generally support Hillary, but anyone who attacks * is OK by me.

[seabeyond]

60. that is what i would think. geez, i say thanks to the likes of stern

flint and maher, all pigs in my book. but when they go after bush they get a thumbs up

[MsAnthropy]

65. I disagree

this is what the right counts on--that the left will jump all over each other!

[LeftCoast]

67. Hmm...So if Hillary doesn't attack Repubs she's a DINO, but if she does

then she's still a DINO. Is there some logic here I'm missing?

[goclark]

78. Exactly - yet another example

that she spoke the truth.


We are so afraid that Freepers will think we are crazy...hello!

Freepers know we are in our little houses on their Bush Plantation.

[Dorian Gray]

68. I'm very hesitant to agree....

I sometimes feel like she's playing at being a moderate to get the vote. Then I think, how long until "playing at being a moderate" becomes "actually being a moderate?" I wish she were more progressive, as I would love to have our first female president elected in '08. I just don't think it'll happen.

[mdmc]

69. Well, if HRC repeats what she said in Harlem again in upstate

NY, then she ain't pandering. Mark my words, the progressive candidate that spoke in Harlem yesterday was a one day, one speech event. HRC will win her Senate seat, and will continue to wholeheartedly support Bush.

[PaulaFarrell]

70. Inapt and inappropriate

She can't have really tried to imagine what being a slave on a plantation was like.

[underpants]

74. Sabato is a tool. Give money to him and he will say anything you want

He has been exposed as nothing but a mouth for hire.

[Sparkman]

77. Say your piece, the LIONESS did the hunt, takes em down, in for the kill.

This is a war, Dr. King would disagree with all of you, stand with Hillary against this criminal enterprise know as the Bush Administration. Find me the LIBERAL black leaders who decry her analogy. Plantations had worse conditions and we have more black, unimployed PRISONERS, JAILED for nonesense drug charges,than any nation on the planet.
We need more, not fewer, comments like this true accounting of the U.S. white dominant class racism, disguised by intelectualizing and rhetoric. Who's leading the progressive, Larry Elder, Condi Rice, Oprah? I'll take Glover, Jessie and Harry any day.

[Hardrada]

80. I agree. I thought it was a good analogy.

[rodeodance]

95. Bingo. thanks --well said.

[closeupready]

81. "Plantation" may be underground vernacular, but it's not new

I don't like that Hillary used it - it would be like her using the n word. Some words can be used by some people, but not others. Hillary can't use "plantation."

[rodeodance]

92. yes, she can, she was in a Black church in Harlem and as Sharpton said

no one was offended.

[rodeodance]

93. here are others who used the word plantation posted ealier on DU

Tue Jan-17-06 07:32 PM
Original message
Fake Outrage 101 / Hypocrisy 101 - The Republican Party


Edited on Tue Jan-17-06 07:46 PM by cat_girl25

Why are media whores like Chris Matthews and Republican mouthpieces so offended by Senator Clinton's use of the word plantation and the Republican party? Is it because Ms. Clinton is calling them out on their hypocrisy? How many times in the past have we heard conservatives and Republicans blather on about "Democratic plantation"?

Cal Thomas - "Michael Steele should be elected to the United States Senate from Maryland, not only because he is qualified, but because he would provide a sharp contrast to the Democratic Party and its plantation mentality." http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/calthomas/2005/...

Sher Zieve - "Black Americans who have left the Democrat plantation are no longer "black" according to Democrats."
http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_2121131...

Andrew Sullivan - " In fact, it's hard to under-estimate how much some on the left despise the idea of gay men and women leaving the Democratic plantation."
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archiv...

Wall Street Jouranal - "Democrats are rubbing their eyes in disbelief not just at President Bush's success across America, but also about the fact that a major group they thought would stay on the liberal plantation forever is making a getaway."
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id...

[rodeodance]

94. LASHBACK: Gingrich Said Democrats Think They “Run The Plantation”

http://www.thinkprogress.org /
FLASHBACK: Gingrich Said Democrats Think They “Run The Plantation”

Prodded by the right-wing, the media is already swarming around Sen. Hillary Clinton for saying the House of Representatives “has been run like a plantation…It has been run in a way so that nobody with a contrary view has had a chance to present legislation, to make an argument, to be heard.” MSNBC has already launched a poll: “Was Clinton’s ‘plantation’ comparison too harsh?”

How long before the media mentions that Newt Gingrich, just before becoming Speaker of the House, made the same comparison in 1994:

“I clearly fascinate them,” Gingrich said of the Democrats. “I’m much more intense, much more persistent, much more willing to take risks to get it done. Since they think it is their job to run the plantation, it shocks them that I’m actually willing to lead the slave rebellion.”

[Blue_In_AK]

98. I wondered if Hillary had been aware of this Gingrich remark

prior to making her own and was setting a trap by using the same phrase. It's quite embarrassing to the hyperventilating Republicans, I would think, when the exact words can be traced back to one of their heroes.

[0007]

82. Hillary was right on regardless what you're opinions are.

Give credit where it's due.

Was Clinton's "plantation" comparison too harsh? * 132,393 responses
Yes.
44%

No.
54%

I don't know.
2%

Vote here

[AZBlue]

87. Oh please....if it wasn't this you would have found something else to

bitch and moan about her speech at the church yesterday. What she said was dead on and resonated soundly with the audience. She didn't play the race card, she understands racial differences. This is just another bash-Hillary thread - I mean, come on, we haven't had one in about a week, you guys must have been hyperventilating at the lack of opportunity to spew lies and hatred.

Does this sum it up for you?:
"On a day when Americans are focused on the legacy of Martin Luther King, Hillary Clinton is focused on the legacy of Hillary Clinton."

[robbedvoter]

91. Like "Al Gore's desperate plea for attention" Same writers, same ploy

And for any DU-er to use words like "race card" - well you need remedial RW meme school.

[goclark]

101. So right ~ why we would bash someone,

especially a woman, who has been a true party liner for years is beyond me.

She didn't have to go to New York and be a Senator as a DEMOCRATS.

She could have traveled the world, written a few books, started a law practice and made millions.

After the beating that she took from the Plantation Owners/Neo Cons, if anyone knows an owner when they see one, it's the Clinton family.


I sure hope that the AMERICAN PEOPLE (all colors) will wake up and realize that she is not playing the race card, she is telling America the TRUTH.

We, multicolored slaves, are on the Bush Plantation.

Wake Up SLAVES, wake up.

[ProSense]

96. She is right. Where was all the fuss when she said it the first time?

She said live on CNN when Republicans were in the process of changing the ethics rules to protect DeLay:

AMERICAN MORNING

Aired November 18, 2004 - 07:00 ET

snip...

CLINTON: Well, what can I say? It's just so typical. I mean, they're running the House of Representatives like a fiefdom with Tom Delay, you know, in charge of the plantation. I think it's kind of a sad commentary. I don't think it's good for Democracy. I don't think it's good for the Republican Party. But again, I don't have a vote in the Republican caucus in the House; they'll decide what they want to do, but one would hope that they would not be so quick to change the rules when it affects their leader. They certainly wanted to apply the harshest of rules to Democratic leaders for so many years.


http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0411/18/ltm.01.html

[LittleClarkie]

97. According to other reports, the audience applauded thunderously at that

They didn't seem to be offended.

[qanda]

102. As a black person...

I thought the remarks were absolutely pointless. The thing that pisses me off is that she grabbed the headlines away from Al Gore, who really had something to say and wasn't just saying something to gain a few votes. Honestly, I don't care who said it before her, it's not an appropriate comment to make on any day, let alone MLK day and before an entire audience of black people.

[ProSense]

104. The audience and African American leaders didn't see it that way.

The audience applauded her comment. Sharpton and Conyers supported Hillary's comment, which was to point out the Republican Congress' dereliction and rubberstamp support of an administration that has no problem lying and cheating. The majority of the public appears to support her comment.

I think MLK probably would have accepted Jan. 16 as a good day to march and speak out against an oppressive government that sees nothing wrong with trampling on civil rights.


It's not the same as Bush using Veteran's Day to speak out against those who speak out. Imagine speaking out against freedom of speech on Veteran's Day.

[qanda]

107. Actually, I knew that many blacks supported her comments

And I don't care if they did or not. I am an individual and am speaking as such. I think her comment about plantations was pointless and took away from any valid points she may have actually had. I don't agree with the backlash she is receiving because most of it is coming from people who were probably saying "Happy Robert E. Lee Day" on Monday. My main problem with it is that it was unnecessary and has taken the focus away from the true news of the day, which was Gore's speech.

[robbedvoter]

110. Pointless ain't offensive. To pretend to be "offended" is patronizing

and please notice al, the good ol' boys who affect outrage.
Grabbing headlines from Gore - unfortunately, it's not up to us what the headlines are - crocodile tears of Ms Alito or sharks. At least this time it was another attack on BFEE, rather than W strutting in some paramilitary uniform in front of the troops or some terra alert.
Damning her when she speaks up, using freeper arguments makes us self-detructive fools. sad thing is, they counted on us doing it when they conceived this attack. We are THAT predictable.

[Snivi Yllom]

106. Nagin and Hillary both need to be slapped

Dumb, distracting and unnecessary.

And then Nagin needs to be slapped again.

[robbedvoter]

111. yeaghhhhh! remember the scream? You're running WITH the pack now.

[Snivi Yllom]

112. entirely different situation

one was enthusiasm, one was stupidity

[robbedvoter]

113. Stupidity is yours to not see you are being played the same way

by the same people - only you don't like Hillary, so you think it's OK.
I am not a fan myself, but I see the two as the same. SHE WAS ATTACKING W in her speech - and they are parsing words!