Phone service tech tells more than she should.

[China_cat]

I've been having a problem with my land line giving me a squeal instead of a dial tone when I lift the handset (not a fax or modem tone). When I used that phone to call the company, I kept (and still keep) getting a message "your call cannot be completed as dialed". This is not only a local call, it's less than 2 miles up the road from me.

So I used my cell phone and called to report it. Now, this is the same phone service that about 6 weeks ago sent not just one but -2- trucks to fix a problem that I didn't even know I had. Then 3 weeks ago they showed up again and when they left so did my husband's long distance and my caller ID. They finally put those back but left me with these other problems.

The girl I was talking to said "oh, it looks like the monitoring box is malfunctioning". MONITORING box? My jaws on the floor. "yes", she says, "your calls are being monitored". Then I hear 'please hold a minute' and a different person comes back on the line and refuses to discuss this call monitoring with me.

I think I'll be taking my phone off the do not call list. They want something to listen to? They can hear me piss off telemarketers.

I'm steamed.

[annabanana]

1. I would find a different company...

pronto..

[jean]

2. Can you change phone companies???

[China_cat]

4. This is the only one here that wasn't one of baby Bells.

[AmandaRuth]

3. please call your local chapter of the ACLU

and just let them know this.

[proud patriot]

6. I concur

this kind of stuff needs to be documented .

[Norquist Nemesis]

38. Absolutely! You are paying for phone service, not eavesdropping n/t

[joneschick]

5. quick say something subvervise!

Hullo? Agent Mike?

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system (sorry)

this is so wrong! Can you get someone's supervisor to give you some actual answsers? Keep us posted on these developments. :hug:

[China_cat]

9. I hope they have a Dutch translator handy

because I have a feeling that this is all about the calls to and from my husband's best friend in Waddinxveen. Now an elected member of the city council on the Worker's Party (more socialist than Labor but not as socialist as the Socialist).

That and the fact that my husband is secretary-treasurer for his union local and I manage their IT.

[joneschick]

12. ding ding ding!

I believe you have pin-pointed your problem. Why do you hate America? Dutch friends with Socialis leanings *and* union shit? Obvious security risks. good luck

[ProdigalJunkMail]

35. if you are an IT manager you should know better than suggest this

as a means of 'observing you'. An agency wishing to monitor you would never put a box on your house...there are much better ways of tapping your phone...think passive taps...

sP

[China_cat]

39. This is SC

and civil rights violations here are very blatant. I can believe it because it has happened before. Not only happened, but verified by both the phone company and Naval Intelligence at the time.

And since I called them about it, my phone service is now shut off. Period. I can't even dial 911.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. sorry, but monitoring techniques used today

have no need of being anywhere near your home.

And if your phone is OFF, then you have no dialtone...no tone at all...did they JUST turn it off?

And, having worked with various intelligence agencies, I would like to know what channels you went through to get the Naval Intelligence arm to admit to observing you...Intelligence agencies do no divulge their targets without a court order.

sP

[China_cat]

47. I have a dial tone

but any call I try to make (including 911) is answered with 'your call cannot be completed as dialed'.

It was the 60's. I was sleeping with the guy. He was young, horny and not very bright. But his daddy was a state senator with some pull.

btw...the phone company just showed up. They even showed my husband where the box is (on the side of the house right under the electric meter). Nice red security seal on it.

[IdaBriggs]

48. Unfortunately, some of us who are "monitored" don't qualify for

the high tech junk, so we bet the beeps, the buzz, the whole shebang. And its usually not put on at our location, but closer to the switching station (eight years in telecomm - sigh). Anyway, a whole bunch of us were on the "low budget" monitoring plan while investigating Election 2004 -- it was a hoot! :eyes:

[w4rma]

53. In technology "box" doesn't neccessarily mean a box.

And this hardware or software doesn't neccessarily have to be right outside your home since the network travels to other places too (like phone line hubs).

[ProdigalJunkMail]

58. the OP talked of work

right outside her home...and a 'box' physically attached there...thus my comments

sP

[Truthiness Inspector]

7. I think I know that noise

because I've had it too. Not everyday, all the time, but it happens about once a week.

It almost sounds like high-pitched rushing water, if that makes sense.

And...monitoring box??? :scared:

[PWRinNY]

8. I had a truck come here once too

to fix my phone. Thing is - I never reported a problem. I was at work when they tried to come in, and only found out about it because my neighbor called me at work. I still have no idea what they did. When I called the phone company, they had no record of a visit. This was a couple of years ago. Before the 04 election. Very freaky.

[Jaundice James]

10. Don't call any of your Muslim friends! n/t

[China_cat]

18. The only Muslim I know is the

black Muslim drug dealer who sits on county council.

[blue sky at night]

11. AIR HORN

RIGHT into the receiver for about five minutes might make them shy away.

[Gman]

13. Phone companies routinely monitor lines for problems

and often fix them and you never know there was a problem. Sounds like that was a problem they needed to go to the house for. Don't read anything more into it than what it is. It's not sinister. Just business as usual for the phone company.

[Gabi Hayes]

17. if that's true, what about this?

''Then I hear 'please hold a minute' and a different person comes back on the line and refuses to discuss this call monitoring with me.''

[Gman]

22. What call monitoring are you referring to?

They're not gonna discuss the NSA issue because they know they're extremely vulnerable in lawsuits.

Or perhaps you're referring to the routine monitoring of calls by managers in a back room. That's been done for decades.

[dalaigh lllama]

30. monitoring as standard procedure???

Or perhaps you're referring to the routine monitoring of calls by managers in a back room. That's been done for decades.

I know sometimes when I call a business, they will play a recording notifying me that the call is being monitored for "quality control." I always thought they had to notify me because it was required by law. May I ask how you are aware that managers are sitting in back rooms monitoring calls unbeknownst to the callers? Do you work for a phone company? Can you fill us in as to their standard operating procedures before Chimp? Thanks.

[Gman]

50. I know because I used to do it

as a phone company manager.

A manager listening in on a call is legal and doesn't require a disclosure. Recording of a call has to be disclosed by law.

The only purpose of the listening is to make sure the customer service rep is doing and saying what they are supposed to be doing and saying. If at some point the rep is screwing it up the manager can and will come out of the room and take over the call.

This is nothing new and has been done pretty much since phones were invented. Personally, I think you want to have a manager listening in on your calls to the phone company these days just to be sure you're getting the service you should be getting. For the customer, this is not a bad thing. If the rep is screwing up, it's not a good thing for the rep.

This is one of the reasons I am very picky with customer service reps. I chewed out a service rep for my cell phone company who, when I asked for a manager said, "He's just going to tell you the same thing I am." I went ballistic and told him I was familiar with his company's contact procedures and if I was his manager and heard him tell a customer that I would come flying out of the back room so fast it would make his head spin and he knows better than to use that phrase. I told him that was terrible customer service at which point he turned around completely and I started getting something done. But it was only because I knew what to expect.

And all this has been done since long before the Chimp was even born.

[Gabi Hayes]

31. I quoted the OP. why would they refuse to discuss the call monitoring

if it was for routine maintenance purposes?

[AngryAmish]

28. The phone police! They know everything!

<>

[ThomCat]

14. I'd get a lawyer and demand to know

why your calls are being monitored.

[don954]

15. get a VOIP phone with a small company

Its almost guaranteed they don't have a tap system in place yet. Any POTS line is tap-able, no matter what company you have cause the local loop is owned by the ILEC.

[AlienGirl]

20. VOIP isn't that secure either

We use VOIP at the call center where I work, and not infrequenmtly we hear pieces of other people's calls. If the data that comprises the calls can leak by accident from one phone system to another, it sure as heck can be purpousely spied upon.

Tucker

[northzax]

27. so get a decent encryption system

Perfectly Good Privacy works well. Sure, the NSA can break it, but it costs them just a little more time to do so.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

16. If your calls are being actively monitored

Then you can bet alot more is being monitored.

You can be sure that you cell phone and house is monitored and recorded, and your cars are bugged and tracked, and your garbage sifted through.

Any phone company you switch to will be monitored within short order as well. This includes any VOIP companys.

FWIW, there is a different between traditional monitoring and the wide ranging data collection that the NSA is up to. The NSA isnt doing it through individual monitoring boxes, but through large data collection points. On the other hand, traditional phone taps ARE done via this method.

What you have described is quite intrusive and it sounds like you have garnered the attention of one of the 3 letter agencys (or someone that you associate with)

Best of luck, and its proably time to proactively get a lawyer.

[China_cat]

19. During the vietnam era

I got used to our phone being bugged and waking up to find guys in suits on our porch taking pictures through the windows, being followed almost everywhere we went, being picked up for chickenshit stuff like being downtown barefoot in November (in South Carolina).

Only differences now are...I don't have a porch and I've learned to wear shoes.

[FlippyDoo]

23. You mentioned cars being bugged and tracked

According to what I've heard GM's Onstar does indeed do that so no one would even have to have access to the vehicle to skim info. The government is apt to have a direct link to it.

[Recursion]

21. Umm... of course it's monitored; it's circuit-switched

Circuit-switched communications must be monitored, unless you lease or build a private circuit. What, do you think AT&T just guesses how long each of your calls were, and what number they were to, in the bill? (well, I've gotten a few bills where that seems to be the case, but that's a separate rant...)

Back in the day, the operators who physically connected the circuits listened in to all the calls, because they had to know when the call was over to break the circuit. Now they have computers that do that, but, yes, every call in the US is monitored, because Ma Bell & co. gots to get paid.

If the monitoring is that odious to you, you are free to use VOIP with point-to-point encryption, though using encryption you can only call other people who use encrypted VOIP.

And don't even get me started on cellular phones. People are honestly worried about the NSA monitoring their cell calls... yes, that's troubling, but if you're talking on a cell phone (or a cordless land line), the NSA, the local police, drug runners, the russian mob, and hordes of dastardly ninjas can all listen to your phone calls without any trouble at all.

[ThomCat]

24. There is a big difference

Between having the central office record the duration and destination of the call automatically, and having a "monitor box" on only your one phone line. That is not normal monitoring. There is no "monitor box" on a typical POTS line.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. you are not being monitored

in today's world there is no way in hell that they would actually put a monitoring BOX on your house or China Cat's. They have no need of doing that...there are much more 'quiet' methods of monitoring for the monitor's to choose from...this is something NOT sinister...

DU...meet paranoia...

sP

[ThomCat]

40. Nobody said it was in anybody's house,

but if they wanted to truly monitor a line they would need to attach a recording device to the line in the central office. The switch itself doesn't have that capability.

If you're going to go calling people paranoid you should at least have a clue what you're talking about.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

42. i work in the industry...

I sniff for a living...and she did say that trucks (2 of them no less) were at her home...

Want to talk about clues...I guess you really have never heard of passive tap...and I suppose that switches cannot indicate HOW they are switching a call??? hmmmmm

sP

[ThomCat]

44. Just because the tech checked the far end first

doesn't mean that's where the problem was. Perhaps you've never managed or coordinated repairs. Step one: run some simple automated line tests. Step two: if it isn't an obvious CO problem then dispatch. Step three: if it isn't a problem at the far end, trace it back.

If the problem on the line was a monitor box it is almost certainly going to be in the central office, and it almost certainly would not show up on simple automated tests.

Sending out more than one tech on a residential repair call is odd. I've only seen that when one person is training another. Sending out two trucks is very odd, and normally only happens when a problem is affecting multiple customers.

Yes, I'm familiar with passive tap. It's standard in call-center and call monitoring applications. It still requires equipment, and that equipment could easily be described as a monitoring box.

A phone company rep would not have mentioned that a line is being monitored unless she saw it on her screen. Reps don't know much telecom and depend on what's written in the records. Often don't know much more than what's presented to them, so that's a good indication that what she said is what she saw in the notes on that account. It's not proof, but it's still evidence.

I'm not sure why you're trying to get into a pissing match. I'm not sure what you mean by "sniff for a living" but I'll assume you actually work in telecom. If so, you're not the only telecom professional working here. We can do a resume show-down some other time if it gets you off.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

45. two trucks to check the far end...nah

at least we agree on that. I just get pissed at all the people here who say, "Well that HAS to be done this way" when obviously there are LOTS of ways to get the data that is desired. It is purely paranoid to think that because you are having problems and a tech showed up at your home to do some checking that NOW you are being monitored. If THEY (whoever THEY may be) want to monitor you, you will NEVER know it. And, if you were being monitored for anything other than service issues a Rep would not have that on their screen anyway. And with the tap...it would NOT be on the house...equipment, yes.

I just can't stand it when people think they are somehow worthy of being observed. The manpower required to observe active DU members ALONE would be staggering. Is it paranoid...and even a little arrogant.

Not wanting a pissing match, just want people to stop being so ridiculous. Please forgive my rancorous tone...

sP

[RoyGBiv]

56. Glad you said it ...

This whole thread had been rolling in the floor.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

57. "Do not attribute to malice that which can easily be explained

by stupidity"
~ Hanlon's Razor

"What Hanlon said, but also consider paranoia, hubris, coincidence and equipment failure."
~ Wrinkle_In_Time's Butter-knife

[China_cat]

25. As of this morning, I cannot dial out on this line at all.

[mitchtv]

52. the simplest explanation is a reversal of the tip and ring

giving the condition of "can't break Dial tone". Box with the seal could be the protector or SNI (standard network interface) just a guess from an old maintenance administrator.

[Roland99]

26. Drop the landline and go VoIP with something like Vonage

[dalaigh lllama]

29. How about a LTTE?

I just finished reading H2O man's thread about how important letters to the editor can be, and it occurs to me this would be a great example to fellow citizens to let them know just how intrusive Big Chimpy is getting. You also might be able to get a response from the phone company if you let them know you're writing a LTTE.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

37. if someone writes a LTTE on this they would look

ridiculous and paranoid to anyone with even a smattering of telephony or networking knowledge...

sP

[dalaigh lllama]

46. Can you please explain to those of us who aren't familiar

with the usual modus operandi of phone companies just what they are doing? Please don't just sneer at our ignorance. I for one would appreciate some more info.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

49. not sneering ... just frustrated

the telecom and networking worlds have vast resources that would never be seen if they were in use. Phone companies and other entities can just put a little device ANYWHERE in the central part of the networks (be they telephone or data) that can capture all they need for any purpose...and no one will ever be the wiser. I have done this sort of work in the past and still have ties to part of that world... people who THINK they are being monitored because of something they saw and not being monitored by something they saw...if at all...

sP

[Jeffersons Ghost]

32. kick

[donsu]

34. the electric company put a new line to the house I live in (apt. up & down

nothing wrong with old line. no one called them.

have wondered about it ever since.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

36. people...please

this is paranoia run amok. If you have SEEN the trucks then they were not tapping your line checking out your internet connection or anything of the sort. In today's world, if they want to monitor you you WILL NEVER KNOW IT. An agency with monitoring desire and capability would NEVER show up at your house to do ANYTHING.

You may be being monitored, hell, we probably ALL are...but not like this...

And as an IT manager, China_cat, you should know that...

sP

[Jed Dilligan]

51. Inconsistency here

You're advising us not to be paranoid and at the same time telling us that phone monitoring is entirely undetectable. That seems like something to be more paranoid about than weird noises on the phone. You do discount the fact that everyone from local law enforcement on up likes to tap phones, and lower levels have lower budgets.

[Mr_Spock]

43. What does that mean?

Sounds strange - they had better have a technical explanation for this or it's time to call the ACLU.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

54. it's called VONAGE get high speed, save money and tell telco...

to get lost! Vonage is cheaper with free long distance. I just spent three hours talking to a regional guy with Veterans For Peace and my bill next month is $24.95 plus tax.

[Cha]

55. Is there a mainstream

phone company who didn't turn over their customer records to the nsa?

I was on the phone with my son the other night and he thought there was one but we couldn't remember which one. He calls his wife in Thailand from Kauai all the time and gets a lot of beeping from Sprint.

[Rosemary2205]

59. My 2 cents

I fled Bellsouth 3 months ago for Comcast phone to get rid of $200 a month long distance bills. My "monitor box" is still out there connected to the house with it's "security tag". All the thing does is connect the land line coming in from street to all my jacks. About 10 years ago the thing malfunctioned and my phone service went haywire. They had to replace it. About 5 years ago some idiot phone tech somehow blew every phone and dialup modem away in the whole neighborhood. Bellsouth was by the fix each of our phones without anyone calling in to complain. 2 years ago I acquired a stalker who liked to call me in the middle of the night. They tapped my phone for 4 months. No one ever came to the house to hook up any wiretap. No one messed with my so called "monitor box".

So there's my 2 cents.

[nolies32fouettes]

60. wow!