WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE? Iraq Won't Deny Amnesty For Those Who Kill Americans!

[MannyGoldstein]

I'm dumbfounded.

An aide to the Iraqi government says that they're considering pardoning the killing of American soldiers.

The Iraqi government will not deny it, only giving a BS response, that the aide "doesn't represent the Iraqi government in this issue, and Mr. Kadhimi is not an advisor or spokesman for the prime minister."

This is ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHING to me. Does anyone else give a crap? (Heck, foxnews.com isn't even carrying this!)

WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE! PEOPLE SHOULD BE IN THE STREETS! We're shedding blood and bankrupting our country to support for a government that might well pardon the killers of our troops.

I give up. This is way to fucked up.

[Bonobo]

1. I am not going to pretend outrage. I'd frickin' be killing plenty if...

any FOREIGNERS invaded MY country, broke down my doors, butchered my children, raped my wife...

Sorry, you came to the wrong place for outrage. I have understanding and perspective.

[fooj]

3. That's not what he was asking...

I certainly understand the argument you make, however...

This is about THE US PRESIDENT agreeing to Amnesty against our troops. You may as well stick a bullseye on their backs. WTF are they announcing something like this for when our troops are still in theatre?

This is insane. Completely insane.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Thank God

Thank God I'm not the only crazy person here. I can't think of a more fucked-up thing that I've seen in all of my years. I'm glad that there's at least one person I can share the experience with!

[Bonobo]

7. Thank you for the explanation. I see your point entirely now.

Appropriate from the Iraqi's POV is NOT appropriate from ours.

Again, thanks for the gentle explanation.

[fooj]

10. No worries...

I COMPLETELY agree with your point, actually. We're all here for the same reasons, right?:patriot:

[fooj]

2. I'm enraged. Believe me.

:grr:

Of course Fox News isn't carrying this.

[AlCzervik]

4. was this brought up today by the house republicans?

Is this what Bush had in mind for a "democratic Iraq"?

[BayCityProgressive]

9. Yes apparently in Iraq

if you kill gays, soldiers, religious and political minorities, union members ect that's all fine and dandy you get amnesty!!!!! SO much for those law and order Republicans!! This makes me so angry!

[Gloria]

12. I heard a clip of Ted Stevens stumbling around and then announcing

"he would support it." I think Sam Seder played the clip...he railed about this for a long time today...

[AlCzervik]

14. wait Ted "Boeing" Stevens supports insurgency amnesty?

did i read that correctly?

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Unbelievable! Yes, The Rethugs Defended This!

Senators invoke Confederacy, Mandela to defend amnesty for insurgents

We are now paying people to have our soldiers killed.

Pinch me.

[PSPS]

6. Maybe I'm missing the point

Instinctively, this is a non-issue for me. We invaded a non-threatening country to, essentially, brutalize its population and steal its resources for the enrichment of a cabal of criminals conveniently installed in the white house. Well over 100,000 of its citizens were needlessly killed, at least some for sport and amusement.

The population of the invaded country rose up against us, resulting in the death of over 2,500 of our invading/occupying soldiers.

In a frantic attempt to gain acceptance by the population, the Iraqi government is proposing that those whose acts resulted in the death of a member of the invading army, whose invasion was illegal in the first place, be given amnesty.

So what's the big deal? Did the fighters in the revolutionary war require "amnesty" for killing invading british troops?

Why should there be "outrage" over this?

UPDATE

In the time it took for me to post my comment above, other replies were posted that tell me it was bush who suggested this. That is pretty surprising, isn't it? But, of course, maybe he's laying the groundwork for his own "amnesty" if anyone gets a hold of him, given he has the blood of countless people on his hands. Or maybe he wants to grease the skids when he absconds the country for life in the billion dollar compound they're building for him in Baghdad.

[journalist3072]

8. I have no problem with this amnesty proposal at all

I look at it like this:

We are foreign occupiers, and Iraqis are rising up against the foreign occupiers of their land.

Let's say that someone invaded our country in an attempt to oust Bush.

While we may not like Bush's policies and want him out of office, we are not going to let anyone else come over here and tell us how to run our country.

If they did, we would all rise up and fight them and resist.

That's what the Iraqis are doing: fighting against foreign occupiers in a time of war.

So I have no problem with the amnesty.

[fooj]

13. You NEVER agree to amnesty while STILL ENGAGED in theatre.

WTF are our boys over there for then?

Read my previous post. I hear what you are saying...I agree. However, it is NOT OK for the POS to tell the IRAQIS that it is OPEN HUNTING SEASON while these troops have been sent back for the third or fourth time! OMG!

[sam sarrha]

15. I'm not surprised at all, I'm surprised they didn't give amnesty for killing

each other.. maybe that will come tomorrow after the infidel murdering idea bonds them together..

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Even If You Think This Way, It's A Cluster #$%&

But we're dying and paying to support the government that's thinking of declaring open season on our troops. It's unbelievably stupid even by Bush standards: It has no point whatsoever - a perfect black hole of stupidity.

[journalist3072]

17. That's true. And what's more

We need to be asking this question of BushCo:

We went over to Iraq supposedly to liberate them from a brutal dictator. Our government told us they cared about the Iraqis and wanted to free them from Sadaam's grip.

So how is it that we began to torture and murder the very people that we said we wanted to liberate?

And how is it that they began to murder us?

[JDPriestly]

11. Unbelievable!

[peacebaby3]

18. As the wife of US soldier and veteran, I'm completely outraged.

I understand that many of these people believe they are defending their country. When my husband was there, he even understood, but he NEVER raped, killed, or injured any Iraqi people.

I'm surprised that some people say it is just ok to tell people we don't care if you kill our troops in Iraq.

For the scum that we have for a president to agree to something like this is just unbelievable!!! I feel the same rage I felt when my husband was in Iraq and that stupid MF got on TV and said to those trying to kill US troops, "bring 'em on!"

[havocmom]

19. Officials saying 'Bring it ON! Oh, and it's a freebie'

Guess they don't want to fund the VA next year. Gotta find the funds to make it up to Paris. She's so hurt since last week.

[raysr]

21. "WE" aren't doing anything

such thing, that's Bush blowing the money and sending kid's who VOLUNTEERED to go commit war crimes. Everyday the "Troops" seem to be enjoying it more and more, writing songs about killing Iragis for christ sake. They don't want us there, what part of that is hard to understand?

[cali]

29. I can't even begin to express the contempt I have

for your remarks. And I don't give a damn if my comment gets scrubbed as an attack on you. Do you even know anyone that's served in Iraq? Stating that kids volunteered to go commit war crimes is vile and false. I don't for a minute buy into the line that they're all heroes but I'm not stupid or cruel enough to assume that they're all blood thirsty monsters who want to torture and kill Iraqis. They're humans in a bad situation, and they react in differing ways; some good, some not. I don't value their lives more than I value the lives of Iraqi civilians, but I certainly value them. As far as your gratuitous commnent about writing songs about killing Iraqis, that's bound to happen. Not only is violence corrosive, but it produces black humor. That happens among medical personnel in hospitals, and other places where there's a lot of death. In any case, you're referring to one person.

Hey, for your next post, how about a brilliant piece lauding those insurgents who randomly bomb, kidnap and execute Iraqi civilians?

[Daphne08]

32. I support your comment, cali.

:thumbsup:

I don't like this war in Iraq, but I do recognize the fact that the majority of the soldiers there are doing the best job they can.

[Adelante]

34. Well done, cali nt

[Mike Daniels]

37. Hell, in the poster's mind if an Iraqi isn't shooting at US troops....

they're probably sympathizers and deserve to be killed by the insurgents.

[peacebaby3]

38. Thank you, Cali. As the wife of an American soldier who served in Iraq

not by choice, but because he was required, I appreciate your comments.

My husband joined in 1986 when he was 17-years-old. He went to boot camp/basic during the summer between his junior and senior years in high school. His parents had given him an ultimatum of joining the military or getting out of their house and he didn't think he could finish high school and survive on his own. A few years later, before his original contract was up, he had a wife (me) and family so the military who provided a steady income and health insurance had become a career. He retires this September and we have been waiting for this moment for the past several years now.

He served most of his time under Clinton and while in the last 20 years, he has helped quite a few people here in this country alone. He was on duty 24 hours a day for 3 months after Hurricane Katrina working along the MS and LA coast. Our house was damaged also, but we had to wait because it was his duty to leave his family to go help others. It is the way it has always been since I married him 17 years ago. His family has always had to come last.

When he was in Iraq in March 2003 (to April '04), during one of the few calls we got to have in the middle of the night, I told him about seeing a report come out about an orphanage that didn't have enough food and medical supplies and in a desperate situation in a town in Iraq. He made sure they had supplies the next day. He went to many of the orphanages that were there, particularly the one in al-Hilla to brings things I would ship over in care packages. Often, I would be able to ship very little for him because he wanted me to ship things for the children. We talked to the Red Cross about adopting a couple of the boys from the orphanage, but because we are not Muslim, we were not allowed.

I'm very surprised that some of the people on this board have no problem with saying that it's ok to give a license to kill our soldiers while they are still on the ground over there. I find that very sad.

[cali]

39. You're more than welcome, peacebaby3

and please convey my gratitude to your husband (you too, of course). You should really post a thread about your husband's service. I'm finding the tendency to believe the worst about American troops that's frequently exhibited on DU, repugnant.

[Rex]

22. Further proof that Repukes HATE our troops!

Dam, what more proof does anyone need? I have a close friend going over there towards the end of the year (his 3rd rotation) and I really do fear for him this time (more then the last times). He has a wonderful wife and a child and one on the way. :(

[upi402]

23. Exactly. It's an upside down reality.

I blame the TV news for catapulting the propaganda. Traitors.

[High Plains]

24. And how would you stop the insurgency?

[shance]

25. Manny, how many Iraqis have we killed or is that somehow irrelevant?

Your post seems to further demonize and scapegoat a demolished, horrifically abused and tortured nation which has been destroyed by our horrifically targetted bombs, bullets and depleted uranium by this Administration. The genocide of hundreds of thousands and assasinations of innocent families and people who have only desired peace and harmony. All they have desired are the same things we want. They have wanted to live their lives and see their families and children grow and advance just as we want the same for our families.

Are you blaming them for wanting the same things that any individual would want for their families?

Lets be sure to be factual, shall we?

There was NO WAY FOR IRAQ TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. NO WAY. You know it and I know it.

They were a totally defenseless, helpless nation that happened to have a wealth of oil, resources and strategically located under their soil. That was their crime. THAT is their crime. That is IT. They were totally vulnerable to our highly impersonable and highly sinister bombs that not only kill, they slowly murder, they burn without any way stopping the burn, they desinigrate with the most sadistic of intentions. They create the most painful of suffering.

So you blame them for their outrage and pain?

I saw Iraqis asking us before we began this atrocicious genocide, why we were going to bomb them? Most of them are now dead and vaporized. They are invisible and irrelevant and highly expendable to the eyes of many AMericans, but not to their families.

Does that in any remote part of your mind bother you?

Are you blaming them for their tremendous pain and unwarranted assaults on their lives? This has unfortunately has been censored by our war agenda driven media and corporate war driven interests.

What is your goal for this post?

Have you not witnessed what this Administration has done to this country, not to mention what they have done to OUR country and what they continue to do IN OUR NAME, or would you rather continue to fuel the fire which is destroying everything we hold sacred?

[johnnydrama]

27. the point is

We're still there. Amnesty is something you decide when the fighting's stopped, and we're gone.

While we still have 150,000 soldiers on the ground, how dare they give people who could kill them tomorrow
and the next day the promise of amnesty.

It's like a free shot at killing any US soldiers that they want to in the future.

This isn't about the past. If we're ever gone, and Iraq is on it's own, then it's up to them to decide
what to do with the "insurgents".

While we're still there, for what possible purpose would our government give all Iraqi's a free licence
to kill American soldiers?

I know why. We want to book a win at any cost. The adminstration doesn't care about the soldiers, the Iraqi's
or anything except somehow being able to get out of there claiming victory.

The reason all you ever hear from Republicans is stay the course, is that doing what's right at this time leaves
their war a miserable failure.

As soon as they can figure out a way to spin our exit into a bold victory against terrorism, they will be out of there
as soon as they can before it changes.

Then cutting and running will be the prudent strategy.

[shance]

28. My God. What CHOICE has "our government" given our troops to begin with?

Please explain why our own Administration and many in our own government are literally penalizing the troops benefits for protecting themselves better and wearing more protective armor which is NOT currently being provided by the tax dollars we pay?

Where is that money going that should be going to better protect our sons and daughter and husbands and wives? Can you tell us?

Why is this Administration penalizing the troops for protecting themselves?

Is that an Administration to you, wants them coming home healthy and whole?

Tell us why Halliburton is intentionally and knowingly giving our troops toxic, untreated sewage water which is making them sick to a degree which we do not even fully know?

Moreover, why are they allowing private contract workers and company members purified water?

Why has the Administration sought to limit and deny rightfully earned pensions and benefits to our troops when they have their lives and futures on the line every single day?

Do you think this Administration is taking care of our troops? Please show us how they are.

Have those in the Administration ever seen a day of combat?

Have those in the Administration been to ONE FUNERAL SERVICE of a soldiers death?

Can you answer this?

You seem to want to blame and scapegoat the Iraqis for what the Administration is implementing. Why?


On another note, have you considered what its like to have your nation destroyed for no reason other than monetary gain and its natural resources?

What if it were YOUR nation being the United States, and your family being needlessly murdered for greed, natural resources and strategic location? How might you react?
Have you taken the time to consider if it were happening to you? Of course not. Because you think it wont ever happen to us as a nation.

Have you ever taken the time to consider why this Administration put our sons and daughters in this position in the first place?

Have you considered what it's like to have your family killed right before your eyes for no reason whatsoever?


Please stop blaming the Iraqis for what they have no responsibility for, moreover they are victims of themselves, and start placing the blame where it is rightfully warranted.

[dailykoff]

26. Looks like we lost another one.

And I've been outraged for five years.

[AzDar]

30. They are desperate and without a plan. This proves they'll do anything

to try and stabilize Iraq in order to keep the war machine humming along for as long as possible.
Wonder how the Troops feel about this traitorous notion?

[malaise]

31. And where do the bombers of that

Cubana aircraft reside? On whose behalf did they kill those people? Is Kissinger still walking free after Chile? Why isn't Bush on his way to the Hague?

[patricia92243]

33. Maybe I don't understand your post. It seems you think the Iraqis WANT us

to be there. They (rightly) don't care if we are stupid enough to kill our own soldiers and bankrupt our country. Naturally they are going to forgive there own people when they kill the "enemy." They don't want their country occupied any more than we would.

[cali]

36. Oh, so you have no problem speaking for the Iraqis,

and lumping them all together? That's what I call western hubris. Iraqis have widely differing views on the status of their country and American troops. Some polls indicate that a majority of Iraqis want us to leave. That doesn't mean they all think killing Americans is a good thing. The latest poll I heard was that 43% of Iraqis see killing Americans as legitimate. That's certainly a large number, and should give us a clue that it's time to get out, but it's not all Iraqis. Like people everywhere, opinions vary.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Supposedly, it's THEIR govenment. Democratically elected.

They, supposedly, get to run their own country.

If we don't like having our benevolent occupiers there shooting up their country, we should pack them up and bring them home. Or, find a job for them shooting up a less testy host country.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

40. MannyGoldstein you might be mistaken.... did you see yesterdays debate?

I saw the Senate debate on C-SPAN yesterday on this very topic and from what I gathered it was the NEW IRAQ LEADER who offered amnesty only one day after the chimp cut and ran from the country. Later, some low-level person in the Iraq government retracted the remark and leading Republicans were actually defending the Iraq government on this issue.

[MadHound]

41. Why the outrage?

Because these people have been labeled "insurgents", "guerillas" and "terrorists", when in all reality they are simply doing what any other person who finds their nation attacked would do, resisting the invading forces by any means neccessary.

After all, aren't we absolving our own soldiers of the murders they committed? Absolving them of tens of thousands of innocent lives they've taken since we've invaded? Having already absolved our soldiers of the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives they snuffed out from '91-'03?

We have engaged our country in an illegal, immoral war for oil and profit. The Iraqis didn't start this, and they are doing what any people of a sovereign country would do in such circumstances, fighting back, resisting the invasion, and doing whatever is needed to get their country back. Why should they be punished further for doing what mankind has done for thousands of years, resisting the invading enemy:shrug:

[cali]

43. That doesn't fly for me.

Many of the insurgents are attacking and killling Iraqi civilians. In the past 6 months insurgents have killed thousands of Iraqi civilians in Baghdad alone. And most Iraqis whether they support killing Americans or not, sure as hell don't support insurgent bombings, kidnappings and executions of fellow Iraqis.

Iraqi public opinion on the American invasion is far more complex than you seem willing to allow. And by the way, the majority of them aren't fighting the Americans or each other.

Stating this does not mean I support the invasion or the occupation. I don't. I never have.

[MadHound]

44. They aren't considering giving amnesty for those who kill Iraqis

Simply those who kill Americans. From the Washington Post article linked above: "The Maliki aide who resigned, Adnan Ali al-Kadhimi, stood by his account of amnesty considerations, reported Thursday by The Washington Post. Kadhimi said Maliki had indicated the same position less directly in public. "The prime minister himself has said that he is ready to give amnesty to the so-called resistance, provided they have not been involved in killing Iraqis," Kadhimi said Thursday."

And yes, I realize that Iraqi public opinion is very complex. Any public opinion in such circumstance is complex. Hell, when our Founding Fathers fought the Revolution, the majority of colonists were not in their camp, their was indeed a minority position.

However the fact remains that the US launched an illegal, immoral invasion of a sovereign country. Are these people simply supposed to roll over and play dead? Are Americans the only ones who are to be allowed to defend themselves? C'mon now, you know fully well that if somebody invaded the US, the American people would be out resisting that invasion in much the same manner as the Iraqis are, with everything from the organized military forces to guerilla attacks to IEDs. And yes, there would be killings of fellow citizens who were percieved to be cooperating with the invading forces. And you also know damn well that when all was said and done, those people would be held blameless for their actions, except perhaps for the killings of fellow citizens.

The population of any sovereign country has the right to resist with any means possible the illegal, immoral invasion of their country by another. This has been bedrock morality in the world for thousands of years. Why the hell should exceptions be made, just because we're the great and mighty USA? Give men a break:eyes:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

46. The prime minister himself has said that he is ready to give amnesty!!!

There you go FINALLY the correct story, according to what I saw in the C-SPAN Senate debate! way to go MadHound. I think we should tell it like it is or not at all! :yourock:

[populistdriven]

42. So what happened to "You are either with us or against us"? I guess it is

"If you attacked US troops you can have a cool high-paying political job inside the new Iraqi government".

[roody]

45. This was a lose-lose situation from the

beginning, US soldiers being on the losing end in Bush's plan. It is sad that they have been used and abused by BushCo. This could end if the US soldiers refused to further serve the corporate interests that took them to Iraq, and lay down their arms.

[PA Democrat]

47. I just called my Republican Congressm(or)an and asked how he can

continue his "stay the course" mentality to help an Iraqi government which is planning to grant amnesty to the very people who are killing US soldiers. I said if he thought that was a smart strategy, then he needs to send his OWN children, and bring the rest of the troops home.

[Vidar]

48. Perfect example why we should be out of there. I don't blame

the Iraquis. Our soldiers have slaughtered many more of their people. Sounds like democracy in action.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

49. yep, "democracy in action" chimp style!

[Zhade]

50. Um, why would they?

We're the invaders. That's a fact.