"I'm not gay, but I have a lot of gay friends..."

[Turn CO Blue]

So anyway, why do straight people who are otherwise in complete support of the GLBT community and furthering human rights issues feel the need to write in their otherwise wholly supportive posts:

"I'm not gay but..."
"I have a lot of gay friends..."
"As a heterosexual, I..."

I don't know if I'm going to be misunderstood or be able to get point across clearly enough to avoid flames or hurting someone's feelings. To be clear, I'm not making a judgment about any of the community-spirited posts today -- indeed it has been one of the most positive and uplifting days on DU that I've seen. I love it when we're all rowing in the same direction.

I am just asking a question because it seems that this warrants an honest discussion -- as it struck me as I was reading all of these threads about the redefining the undefinable Marriage Amendment that there seem to be quite a few qualifiers placed in the replies. I realize that the qualifiers were not given with any malice whatsoever. So, I'm wondering why we put those qualifiers in, then? Is it more of an: "I just want to be clear that I am with you and willing to go to bat for you -- even though I'm not personally affected" or is it a reflex reaction to clarify (in case anybody's interested) that the poster is interested (very interested) in the opposite sex.

Because I was thinking, "So what if you're gay or straight!?" It just isn't relevant to your disapproval of this asinine anti-human rights distraction, really.

I guess I'm saying that it doesn't/shouldn't matter which "team you play for" or the kind of intimacy you prefer (same sex or opposite sex or abstinance) as to your supporting civil rights for GLBT.

Am I making any sense?

---
tcb

[WindRavenX]

1. to me, it's the same as when people say"my best friend is black..."

Etc.

It's usually a set up for a horribly racist or homophobic comment, at least in my experience.

[LittleClarkie]

12. Except I don't think our fellow DUers are homophobs for starting out that

way.

I hope you weren't suggesting that.

[JuniperLea]

15. I agree...

That's pretty sterotypical... I like to think of us as a different breed:)

[WindRavenX]

36. no no no

I didn't mean that at all. :hi:

[MissB]

2. We'd all be better off by replacing that with "Since I'm human, .."

[Turn CO Blue]

4. Exactly! I'm going to have to hire you to write my posts for me...

I use all these words and just beat around the edges of what I want to say...

[Mass]

3. I understand what you mean, but it could be also interpreted differently.

As I see it, it could also be a way to say that this amendment concerns all of us, and not only gay people (as the right wants us to believe). But may be I am being naive.

(though I dont like the "I have a lot of gay friends".)

[Turn CO Blue]

7. No, not naive. I honestly want to know why...even for myself

because I started to put at the bottom "I'm a straight, married mother of two -- LOL!" just to be silly at the bottom of the OP. But I took it out, and I don't even know why I started to put it in...

[serryjw]

39. I agree..Talk about being PC

While petitioning I say that all the time. I assume if you ARE GAY, you would support gay rights. By saying I'm not gay, I am showing solidarity with the cause (much currently going on in CO for November). I want people that are sitting on the fence to understand you don't have to be gay to support gay rights.

[roguevalley]

43. I don't know. maybe they want it clear that they aren't the same

kind of heteros as the beasts are and that even though they are hetero, they are fair.

[Jacobin]

so, what should they say?

Why slap down people who are trying to be supportive? Must they be artful in their wording to please you?

geeze.

Are you LOOKING to make enemies?

[Turn CO Blue]

19. Certainly NOT looking to make any enemies...quite the opposite

Please re-read my post, I wanted to open a serious discourse on those qualifiers, not open a flamewar. I feel that you've misunderstood where I'm coming from... I was struck by the post above that suggests people should say, "Because I'm HUMAN, I stand with you" instead of "I'm not gay, but I stand with you"...

I knew I would screw this up.

[donco6]

5. Why do you have a pink triangle avatar?

To me, it's the same thing.

[Turn CO Blue]

28. I get you. I have it to show my support. I think we all truly want to

show support. This outrage, every damned outrage piling up with this misAdministration...we all want to say "this far and no effing further".

[LittleClarkie]

6. Perhaps it's to be clear about where someone is coming from

as opposed to making sure that people don't mistake the supporter FOR a gay person.

And how could someone post on another thread that he appreciates the support on the board from gay and straight alike if some hadn't identified themselves as such.

Not to mention it's a way of saying "Hey, I have no dog in this hunt, but I stand with my GLBT brothers and sisters." It does rather add something to support someone when you have no personal stake in the proceedings aside from having gay friends and relatives.

Just a thought.

[JuniperLea]

18. No dog in this hunt

I love it.

[Epiphany4z]

8. you make sense

I think it is a couple of things its the old my best friend is one...black, jew, gay whatever..people just do it ye old pc guilt type thing...then there is a need to let people know that you don't have to be gay to feel it is wrong to discriminate against gays.

[IndyOp]

9. One possibility: They want to make clear that they are not saying it to

benefit themselves. I am standing up for my friends and family because I believe what I am saying.

I am a woman. When I argue in favor of women's rights, my statements can be interpreted as self-serving. When a man argues in favor of women's rights their statements are sometimes viewed as having more weight (by some people) because they aren't arguing to directly benefit themselves.

I am straight - when I argue in favor of gay rights I am not being directly self-serving. I have nothing, directly, to gain from saying what I am saying. This is what I believe. I am not saying this just to get something for myself.

I chose the pink triangle for this week and I've noticed others have chosen Human Rights Campaign or Rainbow Flag or the pink triangle with "Straight, Not Narrow." I like the diversity, and I like the fact that anyone reading these threads sees that we are gay & straight TOGETHER.

:hug:

[Swamp Rat]

17. I believe a large majority of DUers feel this way too

hug:

What do you think of this idea?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1367928&mesg_id=1367928

[IndyOp]

30. Sorry... I think marraige gives long-term relationships

some stability. I would like more people to have long-term counseling before marriage, so they can know better what they are getting into and know more about how to navigate the inevitable rough spots. I think, though, that in the best cases I know of - being married just adds a little extra determination to make things work. It is, also, a standard legal contract that helps people negotiate the getting together and moving apart and a lot of legal rights are associated with being married - rights that ALL couples who are willing to accept the responsibilities should be able to enjoy.

Go Ahead - CALL me a conservative poophead!

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

35. I am talking about a purely symbolic action

This in no way is meant to subvert any legal right within the bounds of civil marriage, or disrupt healthy relationships, but instead puts pressure on the 'church' to stop supporting bigots.

[Turn CO Blue]

25. Even your replies are very nicely/thoughtfully written... n/t

[IndyOp]

31. That's why I wind up being the 9th reply, when

I was the first person to click on your OP! Seriously, I am slow.

:D

[Gormy Cuss]

42. You're one of the people who caused the problem with that thread

You know, THAT thread from yesterday.

:hi:

I'm too old to care if people misunderstand my use of an avatar.

[Betsy Ross]

10. It is absolutely a human rights issue.

I think being a Liberal or Progressive includes the notion that one needn't wait for an attack on one's direct interests to take a stand. But we have been living in a non-ordinairy reality regarding what exactly is in one's personal interest; i.e., working class voting for tax cuts which only help the rich. So many feel the need to speak up, make it clear that their interests are human interests regardless of supposed personal impact.

[JuniperLea]

11. You make perfect sense and I agree...

Unless you are here to pick up on people *blush* then your sexual orientation has nothing whatsoever to do with your posting or your supporting a basic human rights issue. For a long time people didn't know I was a woman, for instance. And many swore I was a man:) I tried very hard not to let my gender show in my posts. (It's too hard. I'm a girl, sheesh. Gotta be yourself. It's too hard any other way.)

All that being said, this raises more questions in my mind.

Is there a difference between a gay person stating their sexual orientation or a straight person doing so? Is it ok for a gay person to have gay pride but a hetero person shouldn't? Do you see where I'm going with this? Like you, I don't mean to start anything, but these really are questions that should be addressed... and in a very non-confrontational, non-flame way.

Is it ok for a gay person to say, my straight friends... blah blah blah... but not for a straight person to do the same.

I really am curious.

[Jigarotta]

13. yep. you make sense.

I've seen some of that here but know that it was meant in kindness and support. I don't understand the 'defensiveness; (? if that's the word) but hey, take what you can get.

[Turn CO Blue]

22. Thanks Jigarotta. Everyone has indeed meant well, as did I!

[Berry Cool]

14. Yes, but unfortunately

a lot of people are still really insecure in their sexuality.

Then again, maybe some want to make the point that they have no direct vested interest in GLBT civil rights as it is not their personal ox being gored, yet they believe in it.

The same might happen on such a forum if this were the '60s and we were talking civil rights for blacks. Some people might choose to say "I'm white, and I am for civil rights" as a means of demonstrating support for civil rights amongst a broad group of people. I.e., it's not "just a black issue."

Technically, the right to marry whomever one pleases shouldn't be "just a gay issue" either. Nor should it be just an issue for people who have gay friends. It should be an issue that matters to everyone. Not only because we're all people, but because the mere fact that they're telling gay people they can't marry each other today may be the first step to telling other people they can't marry whomever THEY choose for some reason or other.

If you believe the right to marry a person of one's own choosing is a basic civil right, you will not support attempts to enshrine any sort of marriage prohibition in the Constitution.

And maybe, someday more people will feel comfortable about saying that without having to add "And I'm straight, but I still believe that."

[Nikki Stone 1]

16. I think it has to do with speaker credibility

A lot of sensitive people understand that they might not have the same experience as someone else of a different sexual orientation, race, gender, etc. and so they have to legitimate their opinion somehow. It's a way of demonstrating that they are not just talking out of their hats. Yes, it is entirely possible to invoke the Constitution and work the issue out logically, but real-world experience is somehow more convincing to a lot of people.

And a lot of straight people learn about gay issues from their gay friends.

[The Straight Story]

26. I would agree with that myself, as I have done this before

Up until my best friend told me he was gay many years back (mid 90's) I had never known anyone who was gay and did not fully grasp the issues - and they never seemed to impact anyone I knew or cared about.

Humans often don't have a lot of empathy for someone they don't relate to in any manner.

I can do my share of talking smack about some idiot christians (well they think they are...) but I am one myself. I didn't know but one person for the longest time that was islamic so it was hard to put a face to it all and understand the differences and lack of differences in a personal context.

Reading helps, but personal experience is the key for many things.

I like to let the person know that I am talking on some subjects that I do have some understanding and can relate to them. I would do the same for a thread about parkinson's patients (I don't have it, but my wife does kind of thing. I don't know how it feels to have it, but I live with someone who does so I would qualify that I am not just imagining how things would feel).

It places you outside a vacuum in a conversation.

[Nikki Stone 1]

37. We're on the same page here.

Empathy can change belief systems for a lot of people.

[searchingforlight]

20. A positive and a negative side

On the positive side perhaps people use that qualifier to show that there is support from outside the gay community.

On the negative side, when I hear or see that phrasing I sometimes think the person is saying "Look at what an accepting person I am. Aren't you impressed?"

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

21. I can't answer for others and I haven't written those phrases

myself... here... yet... that I recall... but I might write them to point out that while I support GLBT rights, I cannot comprehend what it is like to live as a GLBT person myself. It's the whole "walk a mile in my shoes" thing.*

While I can sympatize, I can't empathize.

It's probably a defensive thing: not in the sense of "don't think that I am queer" but rather "I haven't had to live through what these people have lived through, so please accept my humble opinion in that light".

*I was really tempted to make a joke about the style/colour of the shoes, but you were being so serious. :P

PS: The DU spell-check wants to turn "GLBT" into "GLUT". Are there that many? ;)

[NC_Nurse]

23. Maybe they are trying to indicate their support

comes from the "straight community". ;-)

[Marr]

24. Maybe they just want you to know that there are straight people who

will stand with the gay community. I don't see what's offensive about it.

[astroBspacedog]

27. I'm gay, but I have a lot of straight friends.

Just kidding, ---- really I wasn't serious. I'M NOT GAY ! --- but I have a lot of gay friends.
;) ;)

[Beelzebud]

29. Because for any homophobe that might be reading, I want them to know

that there are straight people out there that are not bigotted towards gay people.

That is the ONLY reason I've added that qualifier to some of my posts.

Let's face it. In our society, the act of a hetrosexual standing up for the rights of homosexuals, IS a statement.

[Turn CO Blue]

33. You're very correct on that...

as white liberals stood up during the civil rights movement for blacks. It does seem to shift the view.

[Redstone]

32. Oh, bullshit. There's no agenda, for Christ's sake. They're just

trying to be polite.

You know, even in this complicated world, some things really are what they seem to be. Sometimes people say things that really are just what the words say.

Yeesh.

Redstone

[RagingInMiami]

34. Well, I'm not gay but I do have gay friends

But I've also been in situations where if I meet gay people, say in a bar, and I don't freak out because they're gay, and instead I continue talking to them because we were having an interesting conversation about something unrelated to sex, then they come on to me.

I've also been on the receiving end of a gay infatuation, which included gifts, cards and resentment towards my live-in girlfriend at the time. The guy couldn't get the hint.

The truth is, there are a lot of heterosexual men out there that are extremely uncomfortable around gay men. And then there are others, like me, who didn't really give a shit. But we do get uncomfortable if they start coming on to us very strongly.

And let's face it, most men are dogs whether they're heterosexual or homosexual. They are a lot more aggressive than women are when it comes to these things. So a straight man who says he is not gay is simply setting the record straight before someone gets the wrong impression.

However, in the context of a hetero coming out in support of gay rights and qualifying it by saying he is not gay, just means that he is letting you know that not all of us heteros are homophobic nazis.

Does that make any sense?

[Tansy_Gold]

38. Looking at it from another angle,

I think some of us -- and I include myself in this group -- are not only identifying ourselves as "straight but not narrow" and in support of GLBT rights, but also distancing ourselves from those who are "straight AND narrow" minded.

We all tend to speak from our own experience, and our experience gives our words weight. I am a mother, a grandmother, a widow, a college graduate, a writer, a dog-lover, a daughter, a sister, an aunt, and so on. These are the perspectives I can bring to a post, or to an expression of support. If I were the mother of a gay son or the daughter of a lesbian mother, my perspective would be different and it would carry certain weight. But I do not have those experiences, so I can only express my support from what perspective I do have. And the same with others.



Tansy Gold, who talks too much

[gollygee]

40. I would think

that it means, "This isn't important only to the GLBT community. It's important to all of us."

[Stinky The Clown]

41. I won't take any offense in what you said. Nor will I question

your motives in doing it.

I suspect the reasons for it are as many as there are people using the verbal device.

I suspect for some it is a good intention that can, unfortunately, be seen as less.

I suspect for some it is latent, and probably unwanted, but no less real, homophobia.

I suspect for some it is simply without any intent at all.

I *can* articulate why *I* do it, if indeed I even did. To emphasize that it is an issue that really doesn't affect me initimately but also an issue that means a great deal to me. A way of saying that I would go the extra mile to make things better. And in saying that, which is meant sincerely, you could take away an implication that I am saying exactly what you're questioning. In the end, it is a *human* issue ... and **all** my friends are human!

As a side note ..... my wife and I always marvel at the way men hug. It *is* all the rage these days. But most men, when they hug, keeps their butts back and sorta slap at the other guy's back. "I'm huggin' ya man, but I'm also slappin' ya."

I'll take people at face value.

[ruggerson]

44. I'm glad if someone identifies themselves as straight

in the context of a political discussion, because it demonstrates the wide support that exists for full civil rights for gays.

Gay citizens are not going to win this war without tens of millions of straight citizens going to bat for them.

The more widespread the phenomenon becomes of straights standing up for gay rights, the harder it becomes for the far rightwing to marginalize the broad movement for human rights as merely a bunch of "gay activists." (their second favorite phrase, after the "gay agenda.")

When it becomes very common for straight people to fight for gay rights, the war is nearly won. And we're almost there.

[Turn CO Blue]

45. In that case...you should know that

I'm a 40-year old, straight, long-time married mother of two, and I stand fully in support of you and of your right to marry your true-love (or not marry, if you so choose), and I am outraged that we have to keep protesting this crap (or similar crap) every day and every time they bring this stuff up every two years.

[sproutster]

46. I certainly have said it. My dearest friend is, and that makes me passiona

Passionate about it, rather then just believing it is right.

:)

Flamefree :)