OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #14

[The empressof all]

From Skinner:

We are instructing the moderators to lock all threads about Jason Leopold and his Rove indictment story. If you wish to continue discussing this issue, you may do so here.

When this thread reaches approximately 100 replies, the moderators will lock it and open a new one.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin

#13 Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1235960&mesg_id=1235960

[stop the bleeding]

1. no one knows if the GJ is still meeting??? n/t

[sabra]

4. according to the spin master Corallo, nobody even know's where

they are meeting...

[Inland]

2. excuse me, it's "XIV". nt

[The empressof all]

30. It's too hard for my tired brain

I thought about it though :hi:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

46. I got chili sauce

for that chicken thigh and leg marinade.

You make cheese, I make chicken.

Life is good.

[Jackpine Radical]

78. Who's bringing the dope?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

89. He's already here

heh heh heh

I mean the dog, of course.

[janx]

108. ...

:rofl:

But don't be mean to yer dog. Surely s/he's not a dope!

[Stevendsmith]

3. It's irrational and unwarranted, but I'm annoyed with Fitz!

What the hell is taking so damn long? This investigation has been going on for YEARS!

Jeezus, the man operates in geological time!

[Loge23]

6. How would know if he's legit at all?

IMO, he's conducting a fair investigation. But how would we know if he was not?
I put nothing by this administration.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

47. You see Fitzgerald as part of this administration?

Oh, man, do you ever need to go read up on the man!

I mean, you really need to learn about him.

He's incredible. That's a word I rarely use, by the way.

[Loge23]

58. No, but who knows?

I know he has been completely unimpeachable and I trust he will continue to do so.
However, if this investigation goes nowhere, then I have to wonder what went wrong.
Let's hope it never comes to that.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

65. He's independent

Seriously, you should read up on him. The guy's so squeaky clean and driven, I can't believe he's real, either.

He registered as an Independent, thinking that would leave him apart from the Republican or Democratic parties. Then he found out that "Independent" was a party as designated, so he simply changed it to "no party," that's how diligent he is.

If your thinking is such, though, that you're going to see the Administration in everything that doesn't go the way you think it should, consider this:

They have gotten nothing right so far.

The only power they have is what Congress and the Supreme Court gave them.

They are now hung out to dry, and it's up to us to capitalize on this.

But, they are not at all able to touch anything Fitzgerald is doing.

I would bet my life on it. Seriously.

And, as other attorneys here have noted, the law he's charged with enforcing is truly impossible to enforce, it's so badly drawn. That's why Scooter Libby was charged with conspiracy, an ancillary charge having nothing to do with the original investigation regarding the outing of Ms. Plame.

Don't be surprised - I won't - if no one else is indicted.

And don't blame it on the White House. Blame it on a law drawn up by a rabid Republican hack - you probably would recognize her name - whose legislative drafting skills left a lot to be desired.

I hope this helps.

[Garbo 2004]

95. The fact that Libby's under indictment suggests that Fitz is not acting

as an ally to the Administration. Libby wore more than one hat in the Administration, he wasn't just Libby's chief of staff, he also was an assistant to Bush.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

8. LOL, that's great! Geological time...we're in the Neoconindictithal era.

MKJ

[MADem]

20. Nothing comes of undue haste

If he has to cross a t or two, and dot every i, he should take his time and do it right.

His goals are not political, they are judicial. Those of us with a political mindset want things to happen quickly, but he doesn't operate from that perspective. Which is a good thing, when you think about it. Remember the Clinton business? That was entirely political. I imagine he doesn't want to go down in history the same way that cretinous Ken Starr did.

Edit/cannot type or spell today.

[JuniperLea]

29. That has been his MO

And it hasn't failed him yet. He is a far more patient person than most of us are:)

Good things come to those who wait... something our instant, microwavable society has forgotten. Fast is not always best.

[DancingBear]

21. Well, you see, this is how it goes

In the previous thread, I explained that the "24" referred to by TO is actually a binary number - Base10 was used to conveniently fool all the lay people.

Extrapolating, then, we find that TruthOut has "1 1 0 0 0" business hours to prove itself correct, which is approximately 1375 business days.

Fitz, being a quick study and sensing this, now realizes that in order to stay on the good side of Leopold (a must, in the prosecutorial sense) he must adjust his schedule accordingly.

Therefore, expect a Rove indictment in the spring of '08, give a take a season or two.

I hope I have been helpful in this matter.

Anyone know why that pilot is drinking???????

[OldLeftieLawyer]

49. That's not the pilot.............

[janx]

104. Legal beagle stuff always takes a long time.

L'il Scooter's trial isn't until January of next year, in fact. ;-)

[Goblinmonger]

5. I remember back when we were on thread 1

And we had to walk through 4 feet of snow just to post our comments on that thread. And we LIKED IT. WE LIKED IT.

[nytemare]

10. Don't forget that the keyboards were on hills.

And we had to reach up to type. If you were a point and poker, you could forget it.

[Goblinmonger]

17. and we didn't have no fancy

ergonomically correct keyboards. You got carpel tunnel just from typing the subject line.

[eggman67]

16. Uphill. In bare feet. Both ways. n/t

[stop the bleeding]

18. LOL!

:rofl::spray::rofl:

[Snivi Yllom]

23. and it was uphill posting both ways

now we're just spoiled

[Hugin]

24. In a dry ice storm...

Had to add my 0.02... :D

[greatauntoftriplets]

How many business hours has it been since thread 1?

I have trouble keeping track of time these days.....

:shrug:

[Goblinmonger]

40. Well

First we need to know how long your lunch was today? Did you oversleep this morning or did you get to work early? I think business hours take into account actual productivity. And since this is a Friday, I would think the best you could count on is 2-3 business hours today. And that is being generous.

[Jazz2006]

35. Wearing our father's pajamas...

:rofl:

And yes, WE LIKED IT, dag nammit, WE LIKED it.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

48. YOU HAD FEET???

Huh, boy, the stories I could tell you if I had ears..........

[tandem5]

59. You guys are thread 1 foggies...

get with it! its 14 now - soon to be 15!

[yodermon]

7. ok i'm done

I know I haven't said a whole lot on these threads. But I just noticed that

A) people have started getting Tombstoned for posting on this topic.
B) other people are celebrating the Tombstoning of the people in (A).

This depresses the ever-living fuck out of me, even more than the fitz's non-announcement today.
Enough is enough, i'm outta here, and no the door will not hit me on my ass on my wa

[Catherine Vincent]

9. ~j~

"Everyone just chill out and let me do my job. Thanks."

[Writer]

19. Meow!

Love,

Writer.

[Hugin]

11. Business time... Hmm, is that like dog years?

Anyway, I've been enjoying these threads and all who have
posted in them.

[greatauntoftriplets]

14. I've enjoyed these t hreads, too.

They are an endless source of entertainment. Even the Lounge doesn't make me laugh this much.

:D

[no name no slogan]

66. More like metric hours

i.e., double it, and add thirty.

So "24 business hours" becomes 78 metric hours. Which have also passed, sadly.

I really hope this story is true, sincerely. But I too am beginning to wonder...

[madinmaryland]

12. uhh?

:boring:

[Hugin]

15. We'll wake you if something happens.

I'll be off reading web comics or something.

[Goblinmonger]

25. Wake me up

before you go-go.

That's what been missing from the last few threads. Senseless song references.

[novalib]

28. You Want A Song Reference?

How about "And I Will Always Love You"?

Or "Unbreak My Heart"?

Or "I Will SUrvive"?

Or "99 Tears"??

[Goblinmonger]

41. Or how about

"Micky"?
"Hollaback Girl"?

[Goblinmonger]

13. L-E-O-P-O-L-D

That's the way we spell rowdy, LEOPOLD, yeah, yeah, rowdy.

[sheelz]

22. Reply to TorchesAndPitchforks from thread #13

Will Pitt is an editor at TO

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1031366#1031595

[Nimrod2005]

26. My own time limit on this just ran out, one minute ago...I had

set 3:00 PM EST as my own deadline for this story to materialize.

Now I have think Jason was fooled by some punk on the right, it is that simple.

This story has crashed...

[Karmakaze]

27. This is one of those landmark issues in DU history...

There are a few that stand out, and this has to be added to them. The Sept 11 attack, the 2004 primaries, the fundraising for Andy and now this. These issues resulted in lines being drawn, and in the end, tombstones being planted. Good DUers banned because their belief in one side of the issue or the other made them do something stupid.

If you look at that list though, one stands out as being wholly worthless. Sept 11 of course was a devestating attack both physically and psychologically. There was good reason for very strong feelings about it. Same with the 2004 primaries. We at DU had good reason to believe we were literally in a fight with the devil. Even fundraising for Andy was over a man's life.

What has this issue got, that makes it important enough for good DUers to be tombstoned over? If this WAS a Rove setup, THIS is what he was after - not bringing down Truthout, but setting Dems againt Dems. And it worked.

I hope Will has the guts to come back here and apologise for what has happened.

[GOTV]

33. What is tombstoning?

I assume it's some kind of account cancellation?

[Hugin]

37. Yep.

That's what it is.

[Karmakaze]

42. Yes...

This is why its called tombstoning:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=131175

And it is a permanent ban from DU.

[GOTV]

45. I see!

[Hugin]

36. Very true...

Well said... I'll leave this thread thinking about what you've said.

[Snivi Yllom]

38. having guts has nothing to do with it

what is required is journalistic responsibility

[Karmakaze]

53. Jounalistic responsibiltiy only requires a retraction...

It will take guts to come HERE and face the people this story affected. I think Will has the guts to do that, but I think this may be the first time I have ever seen him be wrong on this scale. If he does come and apologise, then that will INCREASE my respect for him.

I have never thought for one moment that Will Pitt was lying. I truly beleive that HE believed every word of the article. So in effect HE has been burned more than anyone. The true test of a person's character is how they deal with a situation such as this. Let's hope that Will passes the test, and we don't lose ANOTHER good DUer over this stupid bullshit.

[Snivi Yllom]

75. I remember one other story he pushed that never materialized as hyped

but I think this may be the first time I have ever seen him be wrong on this scale.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122404Y.shtml

He will argue he never said Kerry would challenge the 2004 election, but he sure insinuated Kerry would, and led many here to belive as much.

I agree, he has gone past that point and really stuck his neck out.

[Karmakaze]

98. yeah, but Kerry himself led people to believe that...

There WAS supporting evidence that had nothing to do with Will et al.

But this was ALL on the heads of Leopold, Pitt and Ash. They WERE the story. So this was much more a test of their credibility than the Kerry story.

[crispini]

31. Fitz!

It had to be done. :rofl:

[Loge23]

32. reply to the oldleftielawyer from #13

Not even close to Roberts or Alito's hearings - and this guy Hayden is on the record as being a criminal!
Good job with all of your responses, counselor - hanging in there and batting away all comers!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

55. Why, thank you

The utter shallowness of it all does make those other hearings pale, but at least Joe Biden didn't whip out a baseball cap. Watching the Senators fellate Hayden was quite enough, I thought.

Thanks for your kind words. Much appreciated.

[DemReadingDU]

34. How did this thread get to the Greatest page?

Something expected to happen?

[Goblinmonger]

43. What

you don't think this is good so far?

[Hubert Flottz]

39. Yes Virginia...

There is a Fitzmas, but you might have to wait a spell!

[Snivi Yllom]

63. not Fitzmas,it's the Fitzmas Bunny or It's the Great Fitzkin Charlie Brown

we have only had 14 threads to learn this

[Generator]

44. Something's rotten in Denmark

Okay I was out of town and didn't see this Countdown of May 8th:

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/08/shuster-convinced

OLBERMANN: What are you gathering on this? Is the decision by Mr. Fitzgerald coming soon? Will it be an indictment?

SHUSTER: Well, Karl Rove’s legal team has told me they expect a decision will come some time in the next two weeks. I am convinced that Karl Rove will, in fact, be indicted and there are a couple of reasons why. First of all, you don’t put somebody in front of a grand jury at the end of an investigation or for the fifth time as Karl Rove testified a week and a half ago unless you feel that’s your only chance of avoiding indictment. So, in other words, the burden starts with Karl Rove to stop the charges. Secondly, it’s now been 13 days since Rove testified. After testifying for three and a half hours, prosecutors refused to give him any indication that he was clear. He has not gotten any indication since then and the lawyers that I have spoken with outside of this case say that if Rove had gotten himself out of the jam, he would have heard something by now. And then the third issue is one we have talked about before, and that is in the Scooter Libby indictment Karl Rove was identified as “Official A.” It’s the term that prosecutors use when they try to get around restrictions on naming somebody in an indictment. We have locked through the records of Patrick Fitzgerald from when he was prosecuting cases in New York and from when he has been U.S. attorney in Chicago. And in every single investigation, whenever Fitzgerald has identified as somebody as “Official A,” that person eventually gets indicted themselves in every single investigation. Will Karl Rove defy history in this particular case? I suppose anything is possible when you are dealing with a White House official. But the lawyers that I have been speaking with who know this stuff say don’t bet on Karl Rove getting out of this.
~
SO I suppose it's not just Jason Leopold and Truthout and us nutball Dems that are rotten. Do you think the leader of the -ahem-free world-the President-whom I tend to think would do ANYTHING to defend his best bud of all time-the one who has consistently put himself above the LAW, showed nothing but contempt for the American people and the truth-well I think I smell something real real bad.

I have that sick feeling like I did around midnight on November 3rd, 2004.

[Stevendsmith]

51. I think you're right. (n/t)

[KoKo]

69. Could be the Indictment was "Rathered" or folks "jumped the gun" on

the the timing and were "Rathered."

[Laurab]

84. I think Rove's going to be indicted, or has been

although of course ANYTHING can be happening with this pResident and his evil cronies.

I have a sick feeling, too, though - but it's from watching so many people having so much fun, and spending what is apparently, most of their time, bashing their own. I'll just be happy when it's over.

[theboss]

50. Where does this leave Will Pitt at DU?

He's always going to have his fans, but between backing a really sketchy story and then attacking everyone who questioned it - including Skinner - will he still be the local celebrity? Will he keep posting at all?

[Karmakaze]

64. He was, and hopefully still is, a good DUer...

This may be the biggest screw up in his career. I hope he has the guts to come back here and apologise, and I really hope this stupid issue doesn't cost us any more good DUers.

Maybe Will needed this to some degree. Till now, he has never been REALLY wrong on something, and I think that lead to a little arrogance. Maybe this will bring just a touch of humilty out of him.

I like Will, and I hope he continues doing good work for the cause, and I certainly don;t blame HIM for this. In fact I think he got burned more than anyone.

[Catherine Vincent]

52. Okay, who has been tombstoned?

PM me if you desire.

[benburch]

54. How could they PM you if they are tombstoned? nt

[Catherine Vincent]

77. I wasn't talking to the tombstonees.

I was talking to someone here in the know.

[Jazz2006]

57. See #42. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

81. Thanks.

I thought it was a whole slew of posters.

[Jazz2006]

86. You're welcome.

I don't think there was a whole slew - that's the only one I've noticed so far.

[Snivi Yllom]

56. The OFFICIAL guide to the OFFICIAL THRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREADS

KICKED OFF AT Thu May-18-06 10:42 AM

Official Truthout/Leopold/Rove Indictment Thead #1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1224473&mesg_id=1224473

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE INDICTMENT THREAD 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1225093&mesg_id=1225093

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE INDICTMENT THREAD 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1226036&mesg_id=1226036

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE INDICTMENT THREAD 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1226805&mesg_id=1226805

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE INDICTMENT THREAD 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1227513

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE INDICTMENT THREAD 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1228597&mesg_id=1228597

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #7
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1229549

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1230678#1231700

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #9
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1231864&mesg_id=1231864

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #10
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1233436&mesg_id=1233436

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #11
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1234209&mesg_id=1234209

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #12
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1234857

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #13
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1235960

OFFICIAL TRUTHOUT/LEOPOLD/ROVE THREAD #14
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1236596

[Jazz2006]

60. Hurrah! A program! Well done :)

:hi:

[Hugin]

62. Brilliant! Bravo!

:applause:

[stop the bleeding]

67. you should post this in the Research Forum

for anyone who wishes to stroll down memory lane, good work btw

[Karmakaze]

71. LOL! So "indictment" was dropped from 7 on?

There is a sign if ever I saw one :)

[Jazz2006]

76. Very telling, indeed.

:)

[Snivi Yllom]

80. It's a KARLSPIRACY!

I missed it myself.

[The empressof all]

107. More like a very tired mod getting a little sloppy....

I'll nip that one in the bud.....Mea Culpa......

[Gregorian]

61. We're all on the same page. United.

I have patience. I have tenacity. I do not believe anyone at Truthout did anything out of malice I hold absolutely no animosity at all. Remember Dan Rather. I'm used to being the underdog. And I can wait until hell freezes over to see these evil creatures pay their dues.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

72. The evil creatures

were the guys who wrote and promoted that absurd story, thinking that people would be silly enough to buy into it.

Those are the ones you should hold accountable, since this is nothing but a tiny blip that's not even newsworthy. But, a lot of DUers were taken in and lied to and had their trust betrayed by those two men, and I think that's worth getting pissed about.

Those two should pay their dues here to the people they fleeced, don't you think?

[Gregorian]

93. I don't know the truth yet.

It seems from my experiences with Will, that it is inconcievable that this was anything but a mistake. That may seem like giving a lot of slack. But I'm not experienced enough to know what else to think. After all, just about everything I know about politics, I've learned in the last three years.

Edit- No, that's not true about the three years. But most of my intense learning has occured in that period of time. Plus, I'm slow. I often wake up to the facts well after everyone else. And take no offense, as I have read your posts and been enlightened. But I still question everything. I wish I could be quicker in my logical awareness.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

106. Well, hang in there,

because learning about politics - and good for you for wanting to learn - is a lifelong pursuit. It's fun, though, I must admit.

Giving a lot of slack to someone who's betrayed your trust is, in my old-timer's opinion, just another way of saying "Hit me again."

"Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me."

Even Fuckface couldn't get that simple truth correct, the ugly little weasel.

But, if you want to be any kind of realistic with politics, keep your skepticism and trust your guts. If it feels like you're being taken for a ride, you can bet you're being taken for a ride. This whole Pitt/Leopold sham was hardly a mistake. It was deliberate, it was (for a while) defended, and the good people of DU were called names like "fuckwit" and "cretins" for doubting its veracity, which, in the end, was completely lacking.

It was not a mistake - it was a lie. A complete set of deliberate falsehoods, backed up by nothing and passed off as "breaking news" and a "scoop."

All that said, have fun.

[Stevendsmith]

68. What happened to Schuster? Jeez, even the speculation has stopped.

WTF?

[demobabe]

70. UPDATE from Talk Left

Bump and Update: This just in from Mark Corallo :

Nothing going on. I was told by several journalists who were down at the courthouse that the Grand Jury was not meeting today. Of course, the GJ may be meeting at the undisclosed location (as VP Cheney is out of town and not using it today...)

Thanks, Mark!

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014885.html

[uppityperson]

73. How is much of what is on these threads different than what is in Lounge?

no kitten pictures, true, but still.

[Catherine Vincent]

97. This is a hot general topic.

Not lounge material. Sorry.

[uppityperson]

109. I know, I am watching and waiting also, just amused at some postings

postings by people who have posted anti-lounge stuff, yet write things in these threads that are like the lounge writings.

[benburch]

74. Patience might still be in order.

I might have more to say soon.

[KoKo]

79. It's getting kind of late in the day for a Fitz announcement,though.....

:eyes:

[Catherine Vincent]

83. That is what a lot of us have been saying all along.

Fitz!!

:)

[Nickster]

85. Spill it Burch! Spill it NOW! LoL. n/t

[Snivi Yllom]

88. now isn't that cryptic

c'mon, splain Lucy

[BlooInBloo]

91. ROFL!! Keep teasing the credulous twittering baby birds!

:rofl:

[Marie26]

94. When will you let us know?

Within 24 business hours, I hope.

[Alamom]

105. I think this is my first post on these threads...other than laughing at

some of the truly funny remarks.

I wondered where you had been.



May I say, TIA for "whatever".

[kpete]

82. Maybe next week...

Bump and Update: This just in from Mark Corallo :

Nothing going on. I was told by several journalists who were down at the courthouse that the Grand Jury was not meeting today. Of course, the GJ may be meeting at the undisclosed location (as VP Cheney is out of town and not using it today...)

Thanks, Mark!

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014885.html#comments

[Lerkfish]

87. I have been appalled at the glee with which people rooted for

non-indictment of Rove.
I dont' quite get that.

I found that more disturbing than anything else.

I'm not talking about skepticism, I've been skeptical throughout.
I'm talking about swiftboating truthout.

I've responded in these threads to that point only.

My own opinion was "wait and see" the whites of the eyes of the indictment, but I felt no need to trash Leopold.

My estimation of certain other DUers during this has certainly been amended.

[johnnie]

96. Exactly

I feel the same way. I had a bit more respect for a few people here who I don't any longer. Chances are, they don't really care anyway. :shrug:

[zippy890]

99. my feelings too

smearing is not just for gopers anymore
:-(

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

100. True, that.

Skepticism is a healthy response to anything but the fait accompli of an indictment.

But, it seemed as if there was glee at the idea of Leopold being wrong. Not seeming to care that being wrong means no indictment. At least not now.

It didn't seem to matter to those aggresively mocking those of us who weren't willing to call Leopold or Will derogatory names and who maintained a "time will tell" attitude.

Nothing in the world of politics is simple and straightforward and when we're talking about the shadow people in the corridors of the WH, the complexity and secrecy has got to be almost impossible to sort through.

IMO. Thanks for your post, Lerkfish. MKJ

[stepnw1f]

101. Very Well Said...

and I agree... I have read many posts in these threads carefully and do also feel the same people continue to attack those who believe or wish to believe TO, Will Pitt and Jason Leopold. It's pretty damn obvious at this point and I am having a hard time understanding why it is allowed. Discussion and debate are one thing, but personally attacking people for supporting the given journos is just nasty and stifles any real debate.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

102. That story was absurd ab initio

It had everything wrong, and lots of people with legal expertise tried to point that out to those who refused to believe the reality, but chose to believe the fiction.

Now you think people who didn't agree with your point of view were "root(ing) for the non-indictment of Rove," which is the first I've heard of anything like that. You've possibly confused a caveat warning that it was possible that Rove would not be indicted as some sort of cheerleading effort. If so, you owe those people an apology for your poor understanding of the English language. Clarification is hardly the same as endorsing.

No one "swiftboated" truthout. Swiftboating is based on lies. What happened at truthout was done by truthout, no one else. To call someone on something that's patently not true is not good behavior? If you do, you're accused of "swiftboating"?

You and Richard Mellon Scaife, my friend, share far more of the same thinking patterns than I bet you'd care to admit. Intolerance of the opinions of others is a hallmark, and there you are.

Wait and see for what? This is a week later. There is no indictment.

What will you wait for, and while you wait, will you continue to defame and insult with false charges those who saw the story differently than you did from the start?

I never had any opinion of you, so your comment about estimation simply tells me something about you that I'd really rather not know, but Richard Mellon Scaife would be nodding his head at you, with pride, right about now.

Free speech is still alive at DU, and that's a grand, grand thing.

[GOTV]

103. They troll us....

... and we troll them.

Isn't that the way of the world?

[bluestateguy]

90. Truthout and Leopold owe us an apology

Not excuses, but an apology for negligent journalism, shifting stories and questionable definitions ("24 business hours"? Uh, OK).

I don't care if they were jerked around by sources or not. That happens to reporters all the time. Good reporters know how to tell a real story from a fake story. If it's not a story they can vouch for then they don't run it. That's what a professional reporter does. If they are wrong about a story then they must take responsibility, not make excuses or conspiracy theories, or point fingers at Fox News, Judith Miller and Diebold.

[savemefromdumbya]

92. It must be SEALED then

the indictment that is!

[pinto]

110. Thread #15 is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1237105