English as National Language or Common and Unifying Language of US?

[BurtWorm]

The Senate voted this morning to agree to both terms. But what is a "national language" exactly? What effect does it have for the Senate to "recognize" English as the "common and unifying language?"

The Inhofe Amendment

Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 4064 to S. 2611 (Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 )

Statement of Purpose: To amend title 4 United States Code, to declare English as the national language of the United States and to promote the patriotic integration of prospective US citizens.

Result of the vote: 63 Yeas to 34 Nays (3 not voting)

Analytical Breakdown: All but one Republican (Domenici-NM) voted for the amendment (except for Martinez-FL and Bunning-KY, who didn't vote); Ten Democrats voted for the amendment (from AR, LA, ND, SD, Carper of DE, and the Nelson twins and Byrd-WV). Jeffords voted with the other Dems, and Rockefeller of WV didn't vote.

The Salazar Amendment

Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 4073 to S. 2611 (Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 )

Statement of Purpose: To declare that English is the common and unifying language of the United States, and to preserve and enhance the role of the English language.

Result of the vote: 58 Yeas to 39 Nays (same 3 not voting)

Analytical Breakdown: All Democrats (but Rockefeller) voted for the Amendment. New England Republicans (Snowe, Collins and Chafee), McCain-AZ, Domenici-NM, Coleman-MN, Warner-VA, and DeWine and Voinovich-OH voted with the Dems, as did Jeffords. Only Republicans voted against it.

[SmokingJacket]

1. Why don't they just call it what it is?

The Anti-Spanish Amendment.

[BurtWorm]

2. What's the Salazar Amendment really called?

The "We're Too Chickenshit to Vote Against an English First" Amendment

[IChing]

3. that and a deficit reducer..........

purely a ploy to pump up their base and ignore real issues.


I want my $80,000 tax cut deficit reducer.
:banghead: :sarcasm:

[buff2]

4. I happen to agree with the amendment

This is AMERICA,not Mexico.

[BurtWorm]

5. Que?

Como?

[buff2]

10. Why do you hate America?

Isn't the English language good enough for you? :wtf:

[Solon]

28. Non, Je parlez Francaise. n/t

[Mass]

40. Non, je parle français.

Puis-je toujours parler français à mes enfants?

[Solon]

42. Shit I'm out of practice...

Not to mention that I REALLY suck at writing it, its been quite a few years for me since I spoke or wrote it, not a whole lot of opportunity to practice in this country.

[Mass]

55. I know. You're doing quite well.

[Solon]

58. I butcher languages, by and large...

but practice makes perfect as they say, however its rather difficult to do so when in the MIDDLE of the "English Sea" so to speak.

[Solon]

7. So why English?

Shouldn't it be a Native American language, such as Cherokee or something?

[buff2]

9. Do most Americans speak Cherokee?

I don't know any that do. :shrug:

[BurtWorm]

11. A lot of Americans--more and ,more, in fact--speak Spanish.

[buff2]

14. That's because the illegals are coming here in droves

Soon we will have to get translators to go to the grocery store.

[BurtWorm]

16. Maybe you should learn a little Spanish.

Couldn't hurt. It's actually good for the brain.

[buff2]

22. I get by very well speaking ENGLISH

thank you very much. I have no interest in learning any other language. I'm too busy worring about the small shit.....like SURVIVAL.

[BurtWorm]

24. So don't worry about what other people speak.

Just a suggestion. (Non-English speaking immigrants who are also worried about survival tend to want to learn English, too.)

[flashdebadge]

31. I'm not so sure about that. Print and radio don't emphasize english.

[BurtWorm]

38. In New York, every immigrant neighborhood has an English language school.

Every bookstore and librerio has a section on learning "business English."

Immigrants know they need to speak a minimal amount of English if they want jobs. They want their kids to speak good English so they can get better jobs. There is a natural pressure to speak English. There's no need for an official pressure.

[flashdebadge]

56. That's the exception, not the rule. (n/t)

[Solon]

61. ESL schools are found throughout the nation...

the problem is they are underfunded and teachers are hard to come by. If English firsters REALLY want to put their money where their mouth is, lobby for them to be better funded, then the point would be moot.

[BurtWorm]

64. Can you back that up?

I can understand that temporary workers here may not bother learning English. But immigrants who want to stay have always had (and will have for the foreseeable future) an economic need to learn English if they want to move upward socially. Do you have evidence that this has changed?

[Solon]

20. That's just nonsense...

The amount of immigrants, both legal and illegal, in this country, is actually LESS per capita than in the past, and in the past those droves of people didn't speak English either, and you don't need translators to go to the grocery store now do you?

[Saturday]

29. Well, actually....

I went to Sears yesterday (remember when it was an American store?) Well anyway, as I stood in line to pay Pedro (his nametag was on his shirt) 2 announcements were made over the PA and both were in Spanish. No English, just Spanish. So yes, I do have to know Spanish to go shopping.

[Solon]

34. And that's a bad thing why?

First, I don't know the region of the nation you live in. Me, I live in the Midwest, where you go in one place and Mandarin would help, another and Korean would be best, another and Serbian would be best(lots of refugees here). Not to mention the historic section of town is nicknamed "Frenchtown", and the oldest church in town is called San Carlos Borromeo, which also gave my city its name.

[buff2]

37. You can't make phone calls

to businesses anymore......no matter where or what you are calling about it's most always a "Pedro" you have to try to communicate with. Phuck that. Put someone on the phone I can UNDERSTAND. I get sick of having to repeat things over and over because they can't understand English that well and I sure as hell can't understand them.

[BurtWorm]

51. Bueno!

Good for you! You'll get to expand your mind.

:toast:

Salud!

[AlienGirl]

77. Were the announcements for shoppers, or for employees?

I suspect the announcements were for employees, and announcements for shoppers would be more likely to be in English.

Tucker

[flashdebadge]

It cost us more for goods and services when translation is required.

Govt provides documentation in multiple languages for every document. Product manufacturers do the same. More ink is used, more paper (trees are lost), and it costs everyone more.

[Solon]

43. I can explain the most likely trilingual...

but also more languages for products. Most products are now sold internationally, so a can of peaches here in the States could be sent to either Mexico or Quebec, so best to at least use Spanish, English, and French.

[Mass]

59. This is because of NAFTA and because companies want to sell

in other countries than the US.

Or are you suggesting that the rest of the world learns English.

Edited for NAFTA.

[Solon]

67. Don't you mean NAFTA?

Ha! Now we're even on the corrections. :)

[Mass]

69. Thanks

:-)

[Solon]

15. Depends on the REGION...

People seem to forget that little factoid, not EVERY part of the nation has English as the de facto language. Examples include parts of Louisiana, where Creole is spoken, Native American Languages in many reservations, and Spanish in most of the Southwest. Not to mention "ethnic" neighborhoods where a whole list of languages from around the world are spoken.

Besides that, the question is, what would this accomplish, besides demonizing those who haven't mastered English yet, or are too old to bother learning it yet. We have gone along swimmingly without an official language so far, what's changed now?

With an attitude like you displayed in your first post, are you upset that the OFFICIAL motto and banner for the Irish Battalions of Union soldiers was "Erin go Bragh"?

Note, that isn't English either, just in case you were wondering, it means "Ireland Forever".

[BurtWorm]

19. Are you saying English is a disunifying language?

It usually isn't until English Firsters try to shove it down everyone else's throat.

[Solon]

26. I agree...

The thing that REALLY annoys me is that people seem to think its NEEDED at all. It isn't, we have had huge amounts of immigrants come into this country throughout the entire 19th century, from places as disparate as Eastern Europe to China, and we never made English the "Official" language, yet it is still, by and large, the de facto language. Its changed in that time, as all languages do, but we still are one nation, its when the language becomes a sword that it becomes a problem, and that is what the "English-firsters" want it to become. Let it be, it will practically solve itself, you cannot legislate language no more than you can legislate culture.

[BurtWorm]

35. I live in New York City, one of the most popular US destinations

for immigrants and tourists from around the world. Huge Spanish-speaking population and growing. Do they use even Spanish in the subways and other places tourists to make getting around easier for visitors? No they don't. More and more ads in the subways are Spanish, but the announcements are strictly in English.

This doesn't seem strange ordinarily until you visit Europe, where even in the heart of France where French is the official language, you can hear English, German, Spanish and Italian announcements. No Arabic announcements there yet, though you do find Arabic Street signs in Southern Spain.

[liberal N proud]

13. America - the only developed nation in the world where a majority

of the citizens can only speak one language.

I wish I knew a couple of other languages my self, I grew up in a little community who had the opinion that the kids should only speak english. That danish accent of english that was taught sure sounds different than the english you hear in Boston or Alabama.
So which english are we going to use?

We should be teaching our kids two or three languages so they can communicate with the rest of the world.
Not passing laws mandating one specific language.

[buff2]

17. Don't you think that if people from other countries

come here they should learn English? Or do you think we should have to adapt to THEIR language,their culture,their religion......and so on? Damn,I can't believe some of the crap posted on these boards.

[BurtWorm]

21. By and large they do.

What are you so afraid of Spanish for, anyway? :eyes:

[buff2]

27. Why are you so afraid of people with other

opinions and preferences?

[BurtWorm]

54. Let me turn that around back to you where it belongs.

I'm not arguing for a change in the law that will make it harder for people with different opinions and ideas to express themselves. I'm happy with the way things are.

[Solon]

57. Hey Burt, did you vote in my poll?

It was a sort of tongue in cheek way to see where DU stands, so to speak, should still be on the front page of GD:Politics.

[BurtWorm]

70. I'll go look for it and vote in it.

:hi:

[Solon]

72. Just to show you my inclinations....

Esperanto or Spanglish should be the OFFICIAL language of the country, dammit!

BTW: You know I didn't mean to stick my tongue out, forgot to turn off the emotion icons, oh well.

:hi:

[BurtWorm]

78. Did you see my post?

I voted for Native American, but I posted "Organic American."

That's actually pretty close to how I feel. Whatever language works out to be the unofficial language. I'm really opposed to having an official language in the US.

[Solon]

79. Hey, at least it is homegrown.

:)

Actually, I oppose having an official language at all, but figure that if we were to have one, then the natural result of the combination of English and Spanish, i.e. Spanglish, or using a made up language like Esperanto, or a Native American language, don't know which, would be best.

[Xipe Totec]

46. German Contribution to the Early History of the USA

A large number of Americans have German ancestors. More than 25% of U.S. Americans are either completely or partly of German descent. There was even some talk after the War of Independence about whether English or German should be the national language! In the mid-1700s, Benjamin Franklin grumbled about Philadelphia's bilingual street signs and complained that the Pennsylvania parliament would soon need German-English interpreters. In the late-1700s the parliamentary records of Pennsylvania and new state laws were published in both English and German, and the parliament of Maryland decided to publish a German-language version of the Constitution. The fact that official bilingual publishing of parliamentary business slackened off in the 1800s had more to do with the fact that the German-language newspapers of the US were then reporting parliamentary news in detail. Much of the technical and cultural innovation that has come out of the USA would not have been possible without the contribution of German immigrants, whose influence on the USA began in the 1600s

(snip)

In the 1770s a third of the population of Philadelphia was German. A study by Albert Faust came to the conclusion that in 1775 10% of the population of the American colonies was German, though they were distributed unevenly amongst the 13 colonies. Dr Benjamin Rush (1745-1813), a Philadelphia doctor, signer of the Declaration of Independence, surgeon general of the Continental Army during the early part of the American Revolution (1776-1783) and member of Congress, was curious about the prosperity of Pennsylvania and decided that the German farmers there had much to do with it. He wrote a study listing what he thought were the reasons why the German farmers were better farmers than the non-German farmers in Pennsylvania. When the War of Independence began, Pennsylvania farms were producing enough food to feed the American Army and the allied French Army for the duration of the war. Most of the grain was provided by Pennsylvania-German farmers. Dr Rush wrote that the Pennsylvania farms produced millions of dollars, which after 1780 made possible the founding of the Bank of North America (chartered in 1781).

(snip)

On July 5, 1776, the "Pennsylvanischer Staatsbote" was America's first paper to announce that the Declaration of Independence had been adopted. The text reads as follows (there are some old-style German spellings in it):

Philadelphia, den 5 July.
Gestern hat der Achtbare Cong-

ress dieses Vesten Landes die

Vereinigten Colonien Freye

und Unabhaengige Staaten erklaeret.

Die Declaration in Englisch ist jetzt in der

Presse: sie ist datiert, den 4ten July, 1776, und

wird heut oder morgen im druck erscheinen.


http://www.mckinnonsc.vic.edu.au/la/lote/german/mckinnon/earlyger-usa.htm

Yet, somehow, we survived.

[liberal N proud]

71. For centuries, immigrants have come to the US not knowing english

What I am saying, we should not restrict ourselves but develop our own language skills.
It should not matter what language we speak.

Bigger point though: Today they will tell you what language you will speak, tomorrow, what church you go to. Then the next thing will be what clothes you can wear.


Freedom of Speech should include speaking in the language of your choice.

[Bandit]

18. No this is now Amerika

not America and what is wrong with the way the country has been going for two hundred years before Bush*? This is all a big campaign issue. Republicans have had total control for almost a decade and have done nothing. all of a sudden it is a few months before an election and guess what? They find a wedge issue to throw out their chest and bellow about..

[Saturday]

33. I agree buff2. n/t

[buff2]

41. You know,it feels pretty damn good

to have someone agree with me instead of being attacked. :hi:

[Saturday]

48. I saw your post above buff2 and .....

I grow very tired of not being able to understand the person at the McDonalds/Subway/TacoBell drive up. It's not just on the phone but everywhere. If I can't understand I leave.

[buff2]

62. I know what you mean

One time we went to a protest in DC and everywhere we stopped to gas up,eat and even asked directions it was all people who spoke everything but English. I told my husband I thought we needed a passport to even be there. (This was in Virginia AND DC.) LOL

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. "America" named after an Italian.

[SmokingJacket]

80. So you agree it's about stamping out Spanish.

English is doing pretty fine on its own, I noticed.

And if people really cared about English, they'd buy more books of poetry.

[underpants]

6. ¿Que?

someone had to

[BurtWorm]

8. Numero 5

But I was too lazy to make a ¿.

[Sugar Smack]

12. Bush may benefit from learning to speak English,

but maybe that's just my opinion.

[anarch]

23. Well I for one am all for it. I think they should also criminalize

things like misspellings, poor grammar, run-on sentences, and questionable metaphors. Spell something wrong, go to jail! Then we really will have Grammar Police. It will be awesome!

[flashdebadge]

25. Harry Reid said this bill is RACIST. Are dems who voted for it racist?

I think Reid should be a little more careful with his choice of words when fellow dems disagree with him.

[buff2]

30. He's a total idiot

This has NOTHING to do about one's color of skin. He should learn to keep his mouth shut...he makes the Dems a laughing stock.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. If it walks like a duck...

[WestSeattle2]

39. Well everyone in the US....

needs one thing in common, it does help to hold a country together. Since we're a melting pot of different cultures, religions and races, the commonality might as well be language.

Look what Quebec has done to Canada. It is a royal pain in the ass to do business there. A previous job of mine required me to interact with Bank of Montreal employees. Many of them would just hang up the phone if I didn't speak French. I'm not kidding.

I can easily see that happening here, except substitute Spanish for French.


Je suis d'accord avec l'amendement, nous ne voulons pas finir par comme Québec.

[flashdebadge]

44. Has any country ever survived after a multiple language invasion?

Seymour Lipset put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy."

[Solon]

45. Actually yes, the United States "survived" it before, and then...

became the pre-eminent superpower after WW2.

[flashdebadge]

47. The history of our country is that those who arrived ASSIMILATED.

[Solon]

52. First, that's a bad word to use...

Second, that isn't universally true, the Chinese that helped build the intercontinental railroad didn't exactly assimilate, Chinatowns are still present in many major cities. Also there are the Chicanos of the Southwest, who were there before the US was even a country, and then we sort of just moved the border to include them. Not to mention the slew of ethnic neighborhoods where it took over 40 years or more for those groups to "assimilate" as it were. The Irish are one example, others include Italians, Poles, Germans, and many other groups.

[flashdebadge]

63. Not if you understand its meaning...

Definition:
1. To incorporate and absorb into the mind. (we don't want peoople coming here with the mindset that its ok to live like the taliban).

2. To absorb (immigrants or a culturally distinct group) into the prevailing culture. (I'd say that's receive them and accept them is a good thing. Also, notice the prevailing culture. That's us dude. Read definition 1 again.)

[Solon]

66. Its a two way street, not one way...

That's something that people seem to forget, now, if you'll forgive me, I'm getting myself a Salami sandwich for lunch.

[flashdebadge]

68. ENJOY :) and have a great day!

[Solon]

73. Hey, didn't take me that long...

Love Salami, easy to make a sandwich out of it, and I can't stand Bologna.

[Mass]

60. I dont think the English assimilated. They exterminated who was here

before them (or deported at best).

[zbdent]

49. Feel-good-do-nothing legislation or complete waste of energy?

You decide . . .

[flashdebadge]

50. It's nice to see that like the repugs, we are also in agreement. (SARCASM)

[Mass]

53. Of course, US communities in Europe or elsewhere learn the local

language. :sarcasm:

I don't want to be too sarcastic, but in my experience, most don't bother, except may be the limited vocabulary that is necessary to go shopping, and even there, not all of them.

It is true, however, that they do not move abroad to take menial jobs, but to become executives abroad, and that they probably can avoid it.

Why is it that US citizens assume the rest of the world should speak English, but they don't have to bother with other languages.

[Sapere aude]

65. Playing to the bigots again for votes.

Who is harmed by not having an official language? So we print things in different languages. We are spending billions a month in Iraq. Where is the outrage?

[Avalux]

74. Corporate media doing it's part -

I'm home today and have MSNBC on in the background. What have I heard today? Border problems, English as official language, Jimmy Hoffa, blah, blah, blah.

Oh, and a scroll at the bottom - most American say it's OK for the government to collect our phone data in order to catch terrorists. :eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. Another sop to the KKK wing of the American electorate.

[Cleita]

76. Didn't they try this in Canada?

The French Canadians to their credit fought back by refusing to speak English until Toronto backed down. English is already the official language by default here in the USA. All official documents are in English. Laws are passed in English. What more do English speaking Americans want?

I think what they want is to destroy the hispanic culture and languages like they tried to destroy the Native American culture and languages in the nineteenth century, and the African culture of the slaves before then. All have had unpleasant consequences.

[WestSeattle2]

81. Oui, ceci a été fait dans le Canada

Oui, ils ont essayé ceci dans le Canada. Tout était beau de 1867 à 1960. Alors pour quelque raison, les gens dans Québec ont décidé qu'ils plutôt feraient sécession de Canada. Qu'a suivi était la Révolution Calme qui a terminé avec la Crise d'octobre en 1970.

Chaque nation a besoin d'un langauge officiel. Les mauvaises choses arrivent avec balkanisation.

[Cleita]

82. Oops! I don't know French.

Anglais si vou plais? I won't insist though.

[WestSeattle2]

83. My point exactly....

Langauge barriers stifle communication at its most crucial level, citizen to citizen. Allowing multiple languages eventually results in Balkanization of a population, which is exploited by self-serving political and business leaders.

Divide and conquer.

[Cleita]

85. No you are wrong there.

Most of the students that I met from eastern Europe back in the early sixties spoke a minimum of three languages and most spoke four or five. They had to learn many languages to communicate and were better educated because of it.

We are an example of a people that have been so isolated in our Americanized English that we haven't learned other languages so when others come from foreign countries speaking another language we are frightened because we don't understand them.

As a bilingual person in English and Spanish with English being my better language I know for a fact that Spanish speaking immigrants who want to stay here want to learn English. If businesses cater to them in their own language for their patronage, are they to blame?

I don't know much French because I have had no reason to learn, but you might be surprised to know that I do know quite a bit from reading cookbooks and I am sure if I went to Quebec, Louisiana or France, that I would pick up a working knowledge enough to understand what is going on.

If you really want an American language as an official language then it should be Algonquin or one of the other three Native American root languages. I suppose now they won't be able to reclaim their culture either. The Cajun now won't be able to speak French and the Minnesota Norse people, Swedish or Norwegian. And how about Yiddish?

Mainstream business in the USA is always conducted in English so why do you need an ammendment for this? You know it's going to lead to Draconian enforcement by bigots that I don't think anyone with a brain is going to like.

[ecstatic]

84. wouldn't multiple national languages lead to more division and racism

I think Americans are divided enough as it is--poor, rich, black, white, etc... One thing we should always be able to do, IMO, is to communicate with each other. I think multiple national languages would create conditions that could lead to civil wars, etc.

[Cleita]

86. Really? And speaking one language has

worked so well for the last three hundred years.