I knew it, say goodbye to your guns boys

[raysr]

"New NRA Campaign Asks Lawmakers to Pledge Not to Confiscate Guns in Times of Crisis
Ad Campaign Begins Tomorrow, NRA Reacts to Hurricanes Katrina, Rita
Resources

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=1972662&page=1





By JAKE TAPPER and AVERY MILLER

May 17, 2006 — The National Rifle Association is fired up.

ABC News has learned that the powerful gun group will launch a new campaign on Thursday when it convenes its annual convention in Milwaukee, Wis. It will demand that police chiefs and mayors pledge to never confiscate weapons from law-abiding citizens in the wake of disasters such as hurricanes or terrorist attacks.

"We are going to ask every mayor and every police chief in America to take a pledge that they will never go door-to-door confiscating firearms from law-abiding citizens," Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the NRA, told ABC News in an exclusive interview airing this evening on "World News Tonight."

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. How many people are killed each year by A PERSON who has

a GUN in his/her hands, and how many people die in automobile crashes??? Inquiring minds would love to know.


Hang on Laura, you've got competition....

[raysr]

4. Guns, Autos=Apples& Oranges

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. Poison apple, poison orange, same result. n't

[stepnw1f]

6. cars are necessary for everyday LIFE

the other takes it away.

[bvar22]

13. Cars are a convenience, NOT a necessity. (N/T)

*

[stepnw1f]

15. not in this day and age

!

[bvar22]

31. Sure they ARE a convenience.

Nobody dies because their car breaks or they lose their license.
Some are forced to make difficult adjustments.

Necessities are:
*Food
*Water
*Shelter
The Human Race did quite well (some would argue better) before the automobile was developed.

[stepnw1f]

73. Hello...they are a necessity for most people

got it? Nice try.


psssst... for gun nutters: guns are a hobby.

on edit: actually for gun nutters, guns are a necesity as is a "Blankie" for a scared child.

[Leopolds Ghost]

80. Speak for YOURSELF.

If you live in some sort of hellhole subdivision where it is impossible to get around by car, that is your CHOICE. The vast majority of neighborhoods, even in America, are not like that; although most of the newest ones are. Try living without a car sometime, like most people in the world. You might like it.

Cars are an addiction. Guns are merely a commodity.

[stepnw1f]

83. I Grew Up in the CIty

On Edit...

I have lived without a car. But now for me a car is a necessity... not an addiction(analogous). And many others have to travel to make a living. Until we see a society that doesn't need vehicles, I'll play along with your analogy. Shoes are a convienience, so maybe you should walk barefoot...

This topic is done.

[bvar22]

88. Since you once lived without a car,

you have proved that a car is NOT a necessity.

At some point, you made A CHOICE to become dependent upon the automobile for your primary transportation.

You could UNMAKE that CHOICE.

Your post PROVES that cars are NOT a necessity.

NOW, this topic is done!

[KansDem]

91. stepnw1f may have a point.

Granted a car is not a necessity, however, poor city planning and urban/suburban sprawl make it nearly impossible to design and layout an efficient and effective mass transportation system. I visited a friend in a small town outside Zurich, Switzerland, for several months in the mid-80s and was amazed out how mass-transportation aware the Europeans are! Using the electric train and trams, I was able to travel in and out of Zurich (about 20 k. from the town I lived in) and was able to move all around the city of Zurich. By comparison, the USA is far behind in developing this kind of system. Major metropolitan areas like NY and San Francisco come close, but the practice of turning over city planning to developers without oversight has caused major problems. Ever since WWII, mass transit in this country has faltered in favor of cars. Who benefits by the way? Auto makers and oil companies, but that's another story. What does matter is that, with six decades of urban/suburban sprawl with little or no government oversight, it would be nearly impossible to even attempt to put in light rail and trolleys now. The layout of our metropolitan areas wouldn't physically allow it. For example, the small town in Zurich where I live was laid out with mass transit in mind. Practically every home or shop was within walking distance of the railway station. The city of Zurich had, at its core, the train station with trolley lines branching out in all directions like an octopus. With just a little bit of fore thought, one could move around the country and its cities without much effort.

The US has a long way to go to achieve the kind of mass transit system presently in Europe and I suspect other countries as well. We might have been able to do so if we started right after WWII, but ignoring this problem with each passing decade, each passing year, has only made it increasingly more difficult. It will require a major 180-degree turn in thought and attitude to overcome.

[efhmc]

32. I despise that stupid analogy. Take it from a person whose husband, an

owner of many guns, was killed by a car. The automobile is used daily by millions without killing and its sole purpose is not killing but transportation. Guns' main purpose are to kill (I'll give you 1% for target, skeet, etc.). So please STOP comparing deaths by motorized vehicles to death by guns!!!!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

56. Ok.... I have stopped, but I'm gonna look both ways when I cross

the street in front of the sporting goods shop today... fair enough??

[Leopolds Ghost]

82. Depends on the owner.

If a handgun is owned by a racist or closet racist (read: most white people in this country, including some of my relatives and not a few upper-middle-class "liberals", who are, however, less likely to own guns) then it is 99% for "protection", meaning fear of black people.

If the gun is owned by a non-racist or otherwise ordinary citizen, especially a shotgun or rifle, it is 99% for hunting or target shooting, which is mostly innocuous. I have no problem with that and neither should anyone else. The problem is racism, as Michael Moore demonstrated. Read up on the latest in the Katrina debacle to know how deep America's roots of violence and fear seem to go. It will never end, apparently. :-(

The auto is used daily by millions without killing because the drivers in most American cities have successfully terrorized the pedestrian public. In few communities do people learn to respect large numbers of pedestrians when they drive. Most places I go -- I don't drive, and I live in a very transit-oriented city -- pedestrians are still considered vagrants. When a vagrant or "jaywalker" (one who crosses the street anywhere in the mile between crosswalks) is killed, there is little outrage, especially if the person is non-white. It is considered an "act of god", just like railroad crashes in the 19th century before they had to bother with any semblance of safety. :-(

[KyuzoGator]

127. The purpose of 99% of guns is to kill?

Please cite the source of this statistic. Or did you get that from your Colbertian "gut"?

[bdamomma]

71. just for your information

in 2004, guns murdered:

56 people in Australia
184 people in Canada
73 people in England and Wales
5 people in New Zealand
37 people in Sweden
and


11,344 people in th United States.

[slackmaster]

85. I'm going to have to go ahead and, sort of, disagree with you there

The guns didn't murder anyone all by themselves.

They were misused by people.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

100. What do you expect from a country that glorifies violence, uses

more pharmaceutical/mind altering drugs than most of the rest of the world, and has the most lead lying around in the inner cities and all the baggage that brings. READ.


Low zinc is an indicator of heavy metal uptake and retention in the nervous system.... that's a fact.


1: Arch Androl. 2003 Sep-Oct;49(5):365-8. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Blood zinc and copper concentrations in criminal and noncriminal schizophrenic men.

Tokdemir M, Polat SA, Acik Y, Gursu F, Cikim G, Deniz O.

Department of Forensic Medicine, Firat University Faculty of Medicine, Elazig, Turkey. [email protected]

This study investigated the effects of zinc and copper on the behavior of schizophrenic patients by comparing blood zinc and copper levels in criminal and noncriminal schizophrenic patients. Of the total 88 subjects, 44 were patients with schizophrenia and no criminal record who were being treated at the Elazig Mental Hospital and 44 were schizophrenic patients who had committed a crime and were sent to the same hospital upon a court order for monitoring, detention, and treatment. Of the subjects with criminal records, 31 (70%) had committed a violent crime and 13 (30%) had committed a nonviolent crime. The mean plasma zinc value was 68 +/- 1.55 microg/dL in the criminal subjects and 81 +/- 2.73 microg/dL in the noncriminal subjects ( p = .001). The mean serum copper value was 104 +/- 1.80 microg/dL in criminal subjects and 93 +/- 2.92 microg/dL in noncriminal subjects (p = .02). Mean plasma zinc values were significantly lower in criminal subjects when compared to noncriminal subjects, while mean serum copper values were significantly higher in criminal subjects than noncriminal subjects.

[slackmaster]

115. I hear you

:tinfoilhat:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

124. In America,

The numbers are something like 30,000 shootings and 45,000 traffic accidents every year, I believe - see

http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

Someone higher up the thread has posted only 11,000 shot per year, though.

[MadMaddie]

2. Funny the NRA didn't have a problem when the gov was

confiscating black Americans legally owned guns in New Orleans....

[Cleita]

8. Good point.

:thumbsup:

[mdmc]

23. the NRA should have been all over that madmaddie

but they probably didn't even know about it. I heard about it here on DU. I'm not sure that m$m touched the subject.

[Recursion]

36. As redneck socialist pointed out...

they did sue (and win), but they didn't raise all holy hell like I wish they had.

And where was the ACLU there? Do they still only think there are only 9 amendments in the bill of rights?

[Redneck Socialist]

30. I'll undertake the distasteful task...

of correcting you, even though it will appear that I'm defending the NRA (I'm not. They're vile and responsible for electing all too numerous wing nuts.)

The NRA sued to stop the confiscation.

[RB TexLa]

84. wing nuts like Howard Dean? n/t

[Redneck Socialist]

108. If you really want to play that game I imagine that I can find...

...about a hundred right wing wack jobs that the NRA has endorsed for every decent Democrat.

[RB TexLa]

111. not wanting to play any games

just saying everyone that supports the second amendment is not a right wing nut. From time to time good people are going to be on the same side with bad people.

[Redneck Socialist]

119. There are plenty of good people who support the seconded amendment

The NRA however does not, for the most part, support good people.

[Recursion]

34. I've written the NRA on this matter...

I'm a heretic here and a very vocal supporter of gun rights, and I was horrified at both the confiscations and then at the fact that the NRA (and the ACLU for that matter) weren't there within the hour to fight that. They did sue, they did win, but they could have done a lot more. And where was the ACLU?

Sadly, the NRA is not what it claims to be. The NRA is a "guns for rural and suburban white people" organization. I would love to start a "2nd amendment rights for ALL" organization... anybody interested in joining?

[hootinholler]

58. This rural white guy is in. n/t

[MadMaddie]

101. You know that is an interesting idea.....

The NRA has never really had another gun rights group that has challenged them....very interesting thought.....the country is ripe for change....this would be the time to do it...

[benEzra]

126. As long as it was a REAL gun rights group

and not a front group for the anti-gun lobby, like the "American Rifle Association," "Americans for Gun Safety," "American Hunters and Shooters Association," ad nauseaum.

Any "gun rights" organization that isn't prepared to fight for the right of the law-abiding to own the civilian (NFA Title 1) guns we have left is going NOWHERE.

[aikoaiko]

49. actually they did and filed suit as soon as they found a complaintant

willing to file.

I hate the NRA support of republicans, but they defend the 2nd well (albeit not perfectly).

[MrBenchley]

60. Hey, when Chimpy blocked arms sales to Venezuela

the other day, the NRA didn't say boo. Guess law abiding responsible Venezuelans don't have the same rights as the white supremacists and neurotics that make up their membership.

For that matter, when Kindasleeza Rice said the other day that governments have the right and the duty to control pirvate arms ownership (in connection with Iraq), they didn't say "boo" either.

But then this gun rights crap is nothing but right wing craziness and racism giggling to itself under a new sheet.

[michreject]

65. Where does it say in the 2nd amendment

that the US guarantees the right to own guns in Venezuela?

[MrBenchley]

68. Hey, if you want to get into THAT

all the Second Amendment says is that states can have well regulated militias (as the Founding Fathers, the courts and the ACLU all agree)......it's the NRA that says every beebo has an inalienable right to stick a popgun in his pants and strut around like an imbecile, babbling about his cold, dead hands (can't gun loonies find any mittens?)....

By the way, in 2004, Chimpy went in front of the National Guard Association and mentioned that the National Guard was the Constitution's well-regulated militia (as everyone but the Randy Weaver wantabe club knows). What did the NRA say? Nothing. What did the Gun Owners of America say? Even less.

[nolabels]

87. Hehe, MrBenchley debate with fools seems like so much fun

I like to come across them people who argue that I can't know that the sun the has came up today is the same sun that came up yesterday.

Btw does Constitution say anything about upholding treaties with other nations? Umm, guess not, good thing we got guy like Bush to help us interpret the thing.

Let's just nuke anyone who speaks out of turn :woohoo:

[benEzra]

89. Weren't those for the Venezuelan military?

Hey, when Chimpy blocked arms sales to Venezuela the other day, the NRA didn't say boo. Guess law abiding responsible Venezuelans don't have the same rights as the white supremacists and neurotics that make up their membership.

Since Americans can't own those guns, either--a position which the NRA supports--I wouldn't expect them to get bent out of shape over a ban on shipments to the Venezuelan government.

Think the Venezuela ban was probably just politicking, but I don't see sales of restricted military arms to other countries as having much to do with the right of Americans to own civilian guns.

[MrBenchley]

94. Nope...but keep flailing desperately

to support the NRA, who ARE the actual scum of the earth....

"As we reported recently, he has formed a militia of ordinary Venezuelan citizens to mobilise against the threat of an ‘invasion’ by unspecified enemies."

[benEzra]

98. ...who were to be armed with older guns in-country, NOT the new AK-47's

that were purchased from Russia for the Venezuelan army, as I recall.

There was a thread a couple weeks ago on the Venezuelan citizen militia. There was a photo posted showing once citizen with a FAL or CETME, as I recall (a .308/7.62x51mm). Those date from the '50's, and are also popular here in the USA, though over here they're built on new-production civilian receivers.

[MrBenchley]

122. Keep flailing desperately, Ben.....

The gun rights movement is nothing but right wing craziness and racism hiding under a sheet, giggling that nobody can guess who it is.

[benEzra]

125. If I wrote a Perl script...

that pulled random sexual and racial insults and non sequiturs out of a hash file and posted them in GD whenever the keyword "gun" appeared in a thread, I think it might actually pass the Turing test... :eyes:

[MrBenchley]

130. Hurry up and write one, Ben....

It sure doesn't seem your current script is passing much of anything except flatulent gas....

[mdmc]

3. Go get em, NRA!

Look! Someone fighting for our civil rights! Get a camera!

[raysr]

7. For all those who

are "OK" with wiretapping this was an obvious conclusion.

[mdmc]

18. what is?

what is the obvious conclusion?

[raysr]

20. First they tap your phone

then they take your gun, seems like one would follow the other.

[mdmc]

26. Holla!

Thanks for the clarification and I agree. Peace!

[hogwyld]

9. Good! I hope they take them all

And why wait for a disaster??? Hopefully, as a nation, we have outgrown our juvenile "yippee kaiyay" mental illness, and joined the civilized world community in firearms control. We are the only nation that romanticizes roundin' up the posse to git them thar bad guys. What isn't romantic is the horrific slaughter that goes on in every part of this country due to guns.

[The Jacobin]

16. Good Lord

You do know we have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms, right?

The jingoistic crap shoveled by the ton by the right is the problem, tossing our constitutional rights is not the solution.

[hogwyld]

44. Well, the 2nd amendment does say

"A well regulated militia...." So, if you are in the state militia, you are welcome to them. My main point is that I really wish humanity, as a whole, would evolve to the point that we didn't feel the "need" to have them. Not meant to attack you personally, just a dream of peace and safety for all in my twisted little mind.

[Doctor Venmkan]

50. Nice dream, ain't gonna happen.

Someone said they'd be happy if all guns would disappear. How about making all the people that would use force against others to take what they want, disappear???

Till that happens, I'm keeping my gun. IMO, any guy who doesn't take every step he can take to defend his life and ESPECIALLY that of his loved ones, isn't a man. I'm not saying you have to own a gun to be a man....

But I am saying if you DON'T, you'd better be such a badass fighter that Chuck Norris wets his pants at the mention of your name! ;)

Jeez...where you get this whole 'yippee-ki-yayy' bit at? Sure, I target shoot for fun and to keep my skills sharp, but carrying a gun for defense is a responsibility I take VERY seriously.

[TNC4DNC]

79. It could happen

..if people would wake up and see how irrational it is having guns in this modern society. We call ourselves "Western-1st World" but still have "Third World" thinking on this issue. You must be getting in a lot of fights if you feel you have to have a name more feared than Chuck Norris, just when you think about not having a gun.

[Doctor Venmkan]

95. I feel like I'm talking to a friggin' brick wall here...

How hard is it to understand?

There are bad people in the world - FACT.
Bad people do bad things to good people - FACT.
Good people need to be able to defend themselves from bad people - DUUUUH!!!!

Point out any irrationality there.

[michreject]

64. The militia is the people

not military. Gun ownership is a individual right, not a collective one.

[TNC4DNC]

78. Back when that amendment was created...

IT DID MEAN THE MILITARY. There was no military even dreamed of back then like we have now. America was still a very young and small country, so the Founding Fathers felt like it was needed at the time to help with defense, NOT from fellow citizens, but from the Brits, Spanish, Indians, etc. WE DON'T NEED IT NOW, and I would bet that if they could get a view of the future of where we are right now they would agree. They weren't thinking about us shooting each other they were looking at how vulnerable the U.S. was at the time despite winning the Revolutionary War.

[michreject]

81. Very opinionated reply

but nothing based in fact.

If we could foresee the future, they would agree with you. :puke: Sheesh.

[benEzra]

99. If you read the Federalist #46, you will see that it wasn't outsiders

they were worried about defending against; it was the Federal government itself they were concerned about. Hence an armed populace as a deterrent to a tyrannical Federal government.

Don't take my word for it, read the Federalist #46 for yourself. Run the numbers against the population of the U.S. at that time, and you'll see Madison is projecting a Federal standing army vs. the entire U.S. population capable of bearing arms.

[Recursion]

39. Umm...

You really want George W. Bush and Dick Cheney deciding if you have the right to own a firearm?

[hogwyld]

45. If the violent mindset of people in general

were to be tempered, people wouldn't have been so quick to rush off to war. All the violent movies portray the hero blasting away with his big gun, without ever getting shot, or the consequences if he's wrong. If nobody had guns, we would be force to "gasp" talk, instead of shooting first and asking questions later.

[mongo]

96. Then we'd better confiscate all the TV's too

So that no one can watch violent movies.

Sheesh. It's the gun grabbers like you that give the Dem party a bad name.

Without the 2nd ammendment, we would have turned into a facsist corportocracy a long time ago.

[RagAss]

40. as opposed to the government sponsored slaughter of the....

unarmed when they take the guns away.....

[hogwyld]

48. Puleeeeez...

Japan, and other civilized countries have some of the most restrictive gun laws on earth, and have some of the safest societies in history. I don't see trainloads of people heading off to the firing squads. Besides, do you really believe, if you stand your ground like Dirty Harry, that A1 Abrams tank driver is going to blink? If the government really wants to get you, not a lot you can do about it.

[RagAss]

105. really?...you mean like US troops occupying us????

How's that working out in Iraq?......

[tridim]

10. But but but Clinton! Guns! Take. Cold dead hands.

And all that crap.

[hopeisaplace]

11. If every gun was removed from the planet that would make me very happy

I hate guns.

[Recursion]

41. Me too

And I also hate vaccinations, but I get them. I hate war, but I enlisted in the Marines because I hate war so much that I couldn't tolerate the idea of someone else going to one for me.

Similarly, I hate guns enough that I realized I need to know how to use them because of all the people out there who don't hate them as much as I. Those who do not use the sword can still fall on one.

[hopeisaplace]

42. I'm justing dreaming of a planet free of violence

I know its a dream.
I absolutely hate guns. We don't own any (I'm from Canada),
wouldn't own them, wouldn't allow them in my house. I'm grateful
that pretty much everyone I know around me here where I live feel
the same way, so that when my kids go to the neighbors house I don't
have to worry about them accidentally getting shot or something.

You know, I've never ever seen a real gun (seen hunting riffles)..but
never seen a handgun or something like that. I have 4 boys and I try to counter balance
all the violence that goes on in this world by educating them to be
peaceful people, to resolve issues in non-violent ways, etc. With the
constant stream of violence on TV and videos, it's hard..Was just having
a conversation with my 14 year old tonight about how much violence there is
in the world and how he, as a songwriter (his passion), should consider
words that reflect ANYTHING other than violence, death and hate. I quietly
mentioned that the world is in dire need of positive messages, and music is
a great way to start/continue delivering those messages.

Sorry for babbling, lol!...anyway, I just hate guns. I hear what you're saying
about feeling the need to have one, or to be prepared. The military of course,
the police of course, they need guns in this world. It's sad the kind of mess
our planet is in. In all that's bad, there are some wonderful people trying to
make a positive difference though.

[slackmaster]

86. Here's a Web site you'll probably appreciate

http://www.non-violent.com/

[hopeisaplace]

112. oh my goodness thank you...it's right up my alley, fabulous!

thanks again :)

[slackmaster]

114. I've corresponded with Marilyn - We have many differences

But I respect her.

[LiberalPartisan]

12. I don't own a gun, and

I used to be anti-gun. That was until this pack of crooks took over. Since then I have become a very staunch supporter of the 2nd Ammendment. Those Founding fathers knew a thing or two.

[bvar22]

14. The 2nd Ammendment was writtne so that WE....

...can protect ourselves from the GOVERNMENT.

[The Jacobin]

19. I do own guns

But I have no illusion to the freeper fantasy of "headshots to ATF agents" or any other ability to "defend" myself against the government if it puts its full weight against me.

[Recursion]

28. 100% agreed

If any of you think it's inconceivable that the day will come in the next few years where we will need guns to defend ourselves against our own government, then we've been reading different newspapers.

[earth mom]

37. Exactly and I don't like guns, never have.

However, there was a very good reason why the forefathers wanted people to have guns or arms-to protect themselves and also to protect themselves from a tyrannical government.

Seriously folks-This crap gets worse by the day. :scared:

[TNC4DNC]

75. If Government wanted to take us over they could!!!

In a MINUTE!!!!!!!! Our pitiful little handguns could not stop government from totally taking over and turning us into a police state if they wanted to, so that agrument about having guns to keep government at bay is not very realistic. Besides do you really think if we didn't have guns among the population that all of sudden the next wanna-be Stalin would come to power?

[raysr]

25. Whatever guns anyone has

would do them absolutely no good against a government takeover. This ain't "Red Dawn"!

[Recursion]

33. You'd be amazed

While it's true that most of the characteristics that make a weapon useful in actual combat have been made illegal by the AWB (people keep asking about the "protuding pistol grip"; that's quite clear to me: you can keep it pointed roughly on target while running in advance or retreat), the experience in Iraq should tell us that even a fairly under-equipped but well-motivated resistance can accomplish a lot.

(And, let's not forget, those insurgents were the guys who were shooting at me and my friends 2 years ago, so praise coming from me may well mean something....)

[Renew Deal]

47. Hasn't the AWB expired?

I thought so.

[benEzra]

90. The Federal AWB expired in 2004...

but it didn't ban rifles with protruding handgrips; it just prevented guns with protruding handgrips from having a second feature that Ms. Feinstein doesn't like, such as a screw-on muzzle brake, adjustable-length buttstock, or flash suppressor, if the gun in question was manufactured after September 1994.

A couple of states have outright bans on protruding handgrips (California is one), but the attempt to pass such a ban nationally in 2000 and 2004 fell flat on its face, and deservedly so.

[mdmc]

29. man, i agree

and call the top bunk at gitmo. I am hereby kicking and recommending your reply to this OP.

[NNN0LHI]

17. The wingnuts are getting concerned about Bush's snooping around

How would the government know who's guns to confiscate if there is no master list of gun owners somewhere just for such an event?

Hey NRA. You have been punked.

Don

[lies and propaganda]

21. Im for this. Why should only mercenaries have guns?

They made it where you couldnt protect yourself, but you could get shot at any moment by gun weilding mercenary freaks.

First time Ive ever agreed with the NRA, Im sy=ure Heston is spinning.

[Union Thug]

22. Geez...I'm always torn in two when this debate comes up...

I own guns, quite a few, truth be told. But I'm certainly not the kind of redneck buffoon stereotype that many try to paint all gun owners. I don't mind waiting periods, I don't mind background checks. I don't mind this kind of inconvenience if it is for the greater good of society.

But, on the other hand, I collect antique and historically interesting firearms. With the exception of a production Makarov, all my guns are pre-1960 vintage. I really hate the arrogant assholes at the shooting range that bring their over-decked out AR15s, dressed in camo and wearing their god bless america t-shirts.

It's hard to be a rational gun owner in this society!

[TheCowsCameHome]

24. Not this shit again

I love my gun, I hate my gun, I love my gun, I hate my gun, I love my gun, I hate my gun....................................

[zanne]

57. Am I permitted to say I'm anti-gun?

While reading this thread, it struck me that it's very intimidating and just begs for dissent of some kind. You're all patting each other on the back about being gun'totin', fun-lovin', freedom-lovin' Americans. I know I can't utter the name of that other website, but it's just like being there. The gun-totin' group reminds me of the rabid right-wing; if you dare oppose them, they'll shout you down. Please don't form a posse, guys! I'm also a freedom-lovin' American who hates hearing about kids being killed by idiots who don't lock up their guns because they're too irresponsible to OWN one. If you want a toy, buy a Gameboy.

[MrBenchley]

61. So is pretty much all of America

according to the NRA's imbecilic "enemies list"......

The plain fact is, DU is trolled constantly by gun loonies who drum up their imbecilic cause...and then go back and brag about it in their online cesspools. For a hilarious example, check out thsi thread, from 193, on....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2191657

[TheCowsCameHome]

72. The whole pro/anti gun debate crap is just so tiresome..........

[global1]

27. Hey People - Lay Off The NRA - They Are Coming To Our Side....

we're going to need them and their guns to protect us from *Co. The NRA is finally getting it. They know that they are the next target. When their guns are confiscated we'll be helpless to protect ourselves from the coming police state. *'s poll numbers are going to go much lower now that the NRA has his number.

Time to form an alliance.

[madrchsod]

35. what the fuck? big dam deal

it`s a fund raiser for the nra.they know dam well there is no way any public servant is ever going to pledge this bullshit. it`s this years scare tatic to raise funds for this bunch of wack jobs. i used to belong to the nra before these fuckers took over.

[raysr]

38. What's a few freedoms and rights

lost when "W" is keeping you save from "terra"?

[gatorboy]

43. So was this a serious issue or was-- Oh wait! It's election year!

I can't wait to see what the "Dems are gonna take yer guns away" bill looks like this year! :eyes:

[aikoaiko]

51. just as a reminder: Here's the 2005 AWB monstrocity

All we have to do to lose the 2006 and 2008 elections is to bring this up again.
Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)

S 645 IS

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 645

To reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 16, 2005

Mr. LAUTENBERG (for himself, Mr. CORZINE, Mr. SCHUMER, Mrs. BOXER, Mr. KENNEDY, Mr. DURBIN, Ms. MIKULSKI, Mr. SARBANES, Mr. REED, Mr. AKAKA, Mr. DODD, and Mrs. CLINTON) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

A BILL

To reinstate the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. RESTRICTION ON MANUFACTURE, TRANSFER, AND POSSESSION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS.

(a) RESTRICTION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after subsection (u) the following:

`(v)(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon .

`(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of enactment of this subsection.

`(3) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm that--

`(A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, level, or slide action;

`(B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or

`(C) is an antique firearm.

`(4) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to--

`(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);

`(B) the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an onsite physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee onsite for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;

`(C) the possession, by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving a firearm, of a semiautomatic assault weapon transferred to the individual by the agency upon such retirement; or

`(D) the manufacture, transfer, or possession of a semiautomatic assault weapon by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.

`(5) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer a semiautomatic assault weapon to which paragraph (1) does not apply, except through--

`(A) a licensed dealer, and for purposes of subsection (t) in the case of such a transfer, the weapon shall be considered to be transferred from the business inventory of the licensed dealer and the dealer shall be considered to be the transferor; or

`(B) a State or local law enforcement agency if the transfer is made in accordance with the procedures provided for in subsection (t) of this section and section 923(g).

`(6) The Attorney General shall establish and maintain, in a timely manner, a record of the make, model, and date of manufacture of any semiautomatic assault weapon which the Attorney General is made aware has been used in relation to a crime under Federal or State law, and the nature and circumstances of the crime involved, including the outcome of relevant criminal investigations and proceedings. The Attorney General shall annually submit the record to Congress and make the record available to the general public.'.

(b) DEFINITION OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON - Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after paragraph (29) the following:

`(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) RIFLES- The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof--

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;

`(ii) AR-10;

`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;

`(iv) AR70;

`(v) Calico Liberty;

`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;

`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;

`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;

`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;

`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;

`(xi) M1 Carbine;

`(xii) Saiga;

`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;

`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

`(xv) SLG 95;

`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;

`(xvii) Steyr AUG;

`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;

`(xix) Tavor;

`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or

`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

`(B) PISTOLS- The following pistols or copies or duplicates thereof--

`(i) Calico M-110;

`(ii) MAC-10, MAC-11, or MPA3;

`(iii) Olympic Arms OA;

`(iv) TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, or AB-10; or

`(v) Uzi.

`(C) SHOTGUNS- The following shotguns or copies or duplicates thereof--

`(i) Armscor 30 BG;

`(ii) SPAS 12 or LAW 12;

`(iii) Striker 12; or

`(iv) Streetsweeper.

`(D) DETACHABLE MAGAZINE RIFLES- A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a pistol grip;

`(iv) a forward grip; or

`(v) a barrel shroud.

`(E) FIXED MAGAZINE RIFLES- A semiautomatic rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, except for an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

`(F) DETACHABLE MAGAZINE PISTOLS- A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;

`(ii) a threaded barrel;

`(iii) a barrel shroud; or

`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) FIXED MAGAZINE PISTOLS- A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) SEMIAUTOMATIC SHOTGUNS- A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

`(ii) a pistol grip;

`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(I) OTHER SHOTGUNS- A shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

`(J) FRAMES OR RECEIVERS- A frame or receiver that is identical to, or based substantially on the frame or receiver of, a firearm described in any of subparagraphs (A) through (I) or (L).

`(K) CONVERSION KITS- A conversion kit.

`(L) MILITARY OR LAW ENFORCMENT WEAPONS- A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

(c) PENALTIES-

(1) VIOLATION OF SECTION 922(v)- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `or (q) of section 922' and inserting `(r), or (v) of section 922'.

(2) USE OR POSSESSION DURING CRIME OF VIOLENCE OR DRUG TRAFFICKING CRIME- Section 924(c)(1)(B)(i) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting `or semiautomatic assault weapon ,' after `short-barreled shotgun,'.

(d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS- Section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `The serial number of any semiautomatic assault weapon manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which the weapon was manufactured.'.

(e) RELATED DEFINITIONS- Section 921(a) of such title is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(36) BARREL SHROUD- The term `barrel shroud' means a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel, but does not include a slide that encloses the barrel, and does not include an extension of the stock along the bottom of the barrel which does not encircle or substantially encircle the barrel.

`(37) CONVERSION KIT- The term `conversion kit' means any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a firearm into a semiautomatic assault weapon , and any combination of parts from which a semiautomatic assault weapon can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

`(38) DETACHABLE MAGAZINE- The term `detachable magazine' means an ammunition feeding device that can readily be inserted into a firearm.

`(39) FIXED MAGAZINE- The term `fixed magazine' means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm.

`(40) FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK- The term `folding or telescoping stock' means a stock that folds, telescopes, or otherwise operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability, of a firearm.

`(41) FORWARD GRIP- The term `forward grip' means a grip located forward of the trigger that functions as a pistol grip.

`(42) PISTOL GRIP- The term `pistol grip' means a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip.

`(43) THREADED BARREL- The term `threaded barrel' means a feature or characteristic that is designed in such a manner to allow for the attachment of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. 5845(a)).'.

SEC. 3. BAN OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES.

(a) PROHIBITION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(a), is amended by adding after subsection (v) the following:

`(w)(1)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

`(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed in the United States on the date of enactment of this subsection.

`(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to import or bring into the United States a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

`(3) This subsection shall not apply to--

`(A) the manufacture for, transfer to, or possession by the United States or a department or agency of the United States or a State or a department, agency, or political subdivision of a State, or a transfer to or possession by a law enforcement officer employed by such an entity for purposes of law enforcement (whether on or off duty);

`(B) the transfer to a licensee under title I of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 for purposes of establishing and maintaining an onsite physical protection system and security organization required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee onsite for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials; or

`(C) the manufacture, transfer, or possession of any large capacity ammunition feeding device by a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.

`(4) It shall be unlawful for a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, or licensed dealer who transfers a large capacity ammunition feeding device that was manufactured on or before the date of enactment of this subsection, to fail to certify to the Attorney General before the end of the 60-day period that begins with the date of the transfer, in accordance with regulations prescribed by the Attorney General, that the device was manufactured on or before the date of enactment of this subsection.'.

(b) DEFINITION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(b), is amended by adding after paragraph (30) the following:

`(31) The term `large capacity ammunition feeding device'--

`(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but

`(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.'.

(c) PENALTY- Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(c), is amended by striking `or (v)' and inserting `(v), or (w)'.

(d) IDENTIFICATION MARKINGS FOR LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES- Section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 2(d), is amended by adding at the end the following: `A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows that the device was manufactured or imported after the effective date of this subsection, and such other identification as the Attorney General may by regulation prescribe.

(e) BAN ON TRANSFER OF SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPON WITH LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting at the end the following:

`(z) It shall be unlawful for any person to transfer any assault weapon with a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

(2) PENALTIES- Section 924(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(8) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(z) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

`(9) Whoever knowingly violates section 922(w)(4) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.'.

SEC. 4. STUDY BY ATTORNEY GENERAL.

(a) STUDY- The Attorney General shall investigate and study the effect of this Act and the amendments made by this Act, and in particular shall determine their impact, if any, on violent and drug trafficking crime. The study shall be conducted over a period of 18 months, commencing 12 months after the date of enactment of this Act.

(b) REPORT- Not later than 30 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall prepare and submit to Congress a report setting forth in detail the findings and determinations made in the study under subsection (a).

SEC. 5. UNLAWFUL WEAPONS TRANSFERS TO JUVENILES.

Section 922(x) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)--

(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon ; or

`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'; and

(2) in paragraph (2)--

(A) in subparagraph (B), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and

(B) by adding at the end the following:

`(C) a semiautomatic assault weapon ; or

`(D) a large capacity ammunition feeding device.'.

SEC. 6. EFFECTIVE DATE.

This Act and the amendments made by this Act shall take effect on the date of enactment of this Act.

[MrBenchley]

123. Just a reminder, 80% of America wanted that bill passed....

Even the scumbag Republicans who blocked it had to hide behind procedural excuses...

But let's play your silly game--show us which Republicans are running around reminding voters they put assault weapons back in the hands of neurotics and losers. I'm sure since it would "cost us an election" the GOP must be trumpeting it from the rooftops (snicker)

[NashVegas]

70. Exactly!

Here comes the NRA to the rescue of the GOP.

The NRA intends to make this a major issue in the midterm elections this November. The NRA said that starting in October, it would buy television time in targeted states to run an NRA television show that would include testimonies from Louisiana gun owners about gun confiscation.

Think they'll show any black gun owners?

[Renew Deal]

46. Here's a post on this from the other day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1180907#top

[iconoclastNYC]

52. Wow....i support the NRA on this one

I smell a wedge issue that the Democrats will of course ignore.

[Stand and Fight]

53. What did the Founders have to say about gun control? Listen up!

So many on here scream about how our civil liberties are being taken away, yet at the same time they are so anti-gun. Likewise a lot of people here would agree that the Founding Fathers had a pretty good damn idea what they were doing. So, here's what a few of the Founding Fathers had to say about guns and then a final quote from Hitler:


A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.
--- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them.
--- Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

We established however some, although not all its important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
---Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

To model our political system upon speculations of lasting tranquility, is to calculate on the weaker springs of the human character.
---Alexander Hamilton

the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
---James Madison,The Federalist Papers, No. 46.

To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws.
---John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788)


As to those who are so for gun control, I close with this quote from Adolf Hitler:

"Jews (§5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 1333) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority."
— Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons 11 November 1938
Adolf Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933


See thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1222931

[Spiffarino]

54. Seriously, we need to listen to our forefathers

They knew this day would come, and they prepared us for it. And no, I'm not advocating violence, but vigilance.

[Canuckistanian]

55. I'm for the NRA for this reason

And it has nothing to do with guns.

If the 2nd Amendment can be so easily ignored (and the 2nd is the easiest to understand and one of the hardest fought for), what about the other Amendments? Specifically, the 4th Amendment.

The right to bear arms is not one of my favorites, but it's there. And it has just as much right to be there as all the others.

And it deserves the same respect as all the others.

But, once the Amendments begin being reasoned away, for whatever trivial leagal rationalizations, that's the end of the Constitution.

Have Congress and the states change the Amendment, that's one thing. Interpreting the Amendment on the fly is another.

[MrBenchley]

59. Yeah, that was what went wrong with Katrina....

There weren't enough armed loonies shooting each other.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

62. Good. The 2nd amendment was a huge mistake

Way to many have lost their lives over this embarassment.

When we get back the house, senate and whitehouse, fixing this problem needs to an item on the list (albeit after ending the war, fixing the economy and healthcare)

[anewdeal]

120. Nothing keeps the government in check ...

like a well armed populace.

The authors of the Constitution knew this. The 2nd ammendment is very important and has kept you free. Don't take it for granted.

[sendero]

63. Nothing would seal..

... the doom of the right wing faster than attempting a gun confiscation. Not even they are that damned stupid, it's not going to happen.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Can we say goodbye to the NRA too?

Whining rightwing adolescents playing at being tough guys are annoying.

[zulchzulu]

67. It's about goddam time the NRA got off their hind legs on this issue...

Why they weren't screaming when martial law was declared in New Orleans and people were getting their guns taken away...oh wait, that would have made Chimpy look bad....nevermind.

Maybe now that they see blood in the water and maybe opened their eyes to recent events like the NSA story, they got off their butts. Go NRA go... let's see some fireworks.

[buzzard]

69. This may seem odd but I don't know anyone who owns a handgun, not

a single person.

[benEzra]

92. Do you live in Canada?

Where I live, it'd probably be easier to count the people I know who don't own a handgun...

[hopeisaplace]

113. me either, not one.

In fact I've never seen a handgun (other than on TV).
(from Canada)

[Craig3410]

74. But I thought KERRY was the one that was taking away the guns!

Ooh boy; this should be fun.

[warrens]

76. I'm with the NRA on this one

I oppose the gun show loophole, but otherwise, you want a gun, you have a right to own one. Particularly in a world that is creeping toward outright fascism.

[Poll_Blind]

77. Straight up! I support Second Ammendment Rights! n/t

PB

[Renew Deal]

93. The left has changed an aweful lot on this issue.

And I think for the better.

[Doctor Venmkan]

97. I concur...

Guess Bush IS a uniter, after all! ;)

[benEzra]

103. Returning to its Enlightenment roots on the topic

The left has changed an aweful lot on this issue. And I think for the better.

Actually, the left is returning to its Enlightenment roots on the issue, after a brief 1980's/1990's flirtation with authoritarian police-statism on the gun issue. If you go back to the 1930's, to the writings of H.L. Mencken, you'll see that it was the LIBERALS standing up for the Second Amendment and the corporatist conservatives trying to take guns away from the non-elites.

Thankfully the communitarian neomedievalism of the '90's has gone down in flames, replaced by a renewed sense of post-Enlightenment respect for individual liberty. It is immensely encouraging to me to see the backlash against crap like the Patriot Act, against the militarization of policing, and against the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch.

FWIW, John F. Kennedy was a life member of the NRA and a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and IIRC he owned one of the first AR-15's (they hit the civilian market in 1961).

[karlrschneider]

107. Damn right. I hope we never need them for that reason, but

I'm not giving up mine...I've owned guns for over 55 years.

[ThomWV]

102. I Would Not Give Up My Guns ... Would You?

[canichelouis]

104. Hell no

[benEzra]

110. Hard question, but probably not...

if you grok Plutarch, he sums the general sentiment of most gun owners I know pretty well:


Пάλιν δ̀ὲ̀ του̑ Ξέρξου γράψαντος 'πέµψον τὰ ὅπλα' ἀντέγραψε 'µολὼν λαβέ'

--Plutarch, Moralia, III, Apophthegmata Laconica, "Sayings of Spartans"


"To Xerxes' demand, "Hand over your arms," (Leonidas) replied, "Come and take them."




I'm VERY glad the NRA is pushing to head off nonsense like this...hopefully the ACLU is or will be on board as well, since this is also so chilling from a Fourth Amendment standpoint.

[-..__...]

121. Molon Labe...

:evilgrin:

[slackmaster]

116. I used to have a couple of guns

A Ruger 10/22 semiautomatic rifle, and a Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver. Both were family heirlooms, but I lost them in a tragic ocean kayak accident.

[TheFarseer]

106. Is that all they worry about?

If a cat 5 hurricane hits their town and floods it under 10 feet of water, I suppose they're be on their roof with their shotgun mumbling, "no one can take it, no one can take it, they ain't got no right" Get a grip, you freaks

[benEzra]

109. Well, it happened...

If a cat 5 hurricane hits their town and floods it under 10 feet of water, I suppose they're be on their roof with their shotgun mumbling, "no one can take it, no one can take it, they ain't got no right" Get a grip, you freaks

While people were drowning in the 9th Ward, the California Highway Patrol, some DEA, and a few Oklahoma National Guard were busy in high and dry neighborhoods cuffing homeowners in the street and ransacking their houses for guns. Guess disarming peaceful homeowners was SO much more important than saving 9th Ward residents from drowning...

There is not a Bad Weather Exception Clause to the Fourth Amendment. None. If the police don't have a warrant or probable cause that a serious crime has been committed, they CANNOT legally barge into your house and steal your guns. In New Orleans, a few officers did anyway, under illegal orders from Chief Compass (who has since resigned), and THAT is indeed worrisome.

Is this the kind of America you want to live in? (ABC News, 9.73MB video). It starts out talking about forced evacuations (also illegal), but comes around to sweeps for gun owners. The remark by the National Guard soldier at the end, freshly back from Iraq, about having to "shoot Americans" was chilling.

The last thing you need in a crisis is to have some would-be petty dictator start a civil war because he wants to kick in people's doors and take their guns...

[MrBenchley]

131. LOL!

"Guess disarming peaceful homeowners was SO much more important than saving 9th Ward residents from drowning..."
It sure was to gun owners...they got the bigoted piece of shit president they voted for. They even made Dick Cheney their man iof the year in 2004.

"The last thing you need in a crisis is to have some would-be petty dictator start a civil war because he wants to kick in people's doors and take their guns..."
L O L!!!! So what happened in Lousiiana, Ben? Don't tell me all those gun owners were weenies who surrendered without a shot....

[slackmaster]

117. Personally I'd get the fuck out of town before the hurricane hit

But that's just me.

[TheFarseer]

118. just don't forget your guns n/t

[slackmaster]

129. Guns, cats, dog, turtles, camera, and computer backups

Not to mention food, water, clothing, and medicine.

[benEzra]

128. Me, too...

Personally I'd get the f*ck out of town before the hurricane hit...But that's just me.

Me, too...assuming I had the opportunity to do so. But if, by circumstance, I ever find myself in an "emergency" (or the entire country is declared an "emergency zone" due to Terrah, or the War on the Bogeyman Du Jour, I certainly don't want the police trying to barge into my house, cuff me in the street, and rummage through my gun safe.