How far does the snooping really go?

[Jersey Devil]

In addition to the telephone database, reports are that government spying on Americans may also include "the illegal use of space-based satellites and systems to spy on U.S. citizens."
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=34075

This would not surprise me but I doubt that is the end of it. My bet is that in addition to satellites, it includes information on who buys what books, subscribes to what magazines, contributes to what charities, bank deposits, etc.

The paranoia that led to the phone databank simply cannot be limited to phone information imo. They would want more.

I have had a personal experience this year that I have wondered about since it occurred. I am an attorney and as a part of my legal practice I do real estate closings. In NJ, doing so for a buyer usually involves getting the mortgage proceeds wired into my Trust Account on the date of closing or receiving a bank check from the lender for the mortgage proceeds. I also collect the balance owed to the seller from the buyer and all kinds of closing fees for escrows, payoffs of the seller's mortgage, recording fees, etc. I deposit the money in my lawyer trust account the day of closing and write the checks for these items the same day, using an overnight credit deposit slip available at all banks for the deposit of certified or bank checks. I then send out the mortgage payoff checks by overnight delivery. I have done this hundreds of times without any problems.

In January of this year I had such a real estate closing and collected the money for deposit on the day of closing, slightly over $1.2 million for a home purchase. Once again I deposited the funds at the bank personally with an overnight deposit slip on the day of closing and send a mortgage payoff check to the seller's lender for approximately $800,000 by overnight delivery.

Two days later I received a call from the seller's lender telling me my check had been returned by my bank because the funds were "unavailable". I immediately called my bank and was advised that there was now a "3 day hold" on all deposits of over $5,000 at the bank regardless of the source of the funds and whether or not they were deposited with an overnight deposit slip based on bank or certified checks. When I asked where this requirement came from and when it was enacted I did not get an adequate explanation. I told them this requirement would make it impossible for me to conduct real estate closings as I had for the past several years without charging the sellers with additional interest to cover the "hold" period.

Then I read a story about some individual who paid about $2,500 to payoff his credit card but was charged late fees and additional interest because a "hold" had been placed on his payment since it was for an unusually large amount considering his payment history.

In light of the recent revelations about NSA spying, are these things related? I think so. I can only conclude, based on my personal experience at this point, that every financial transaction that trips some red flag on an NSA database now brings the scrutiny of the federal government into play for us personally and in our businesses.

I am wondering if anyone else out there at DU has noticed strange happenings of this type in their own businesses or personal finances. I don't think it's paranoia on my part.

[woodsprite]

1. I believe that also.

And you know that it's never done for our protection. It's only being done because they want to control the money, know who has the most, where the vulnerabilities and loyalties are, and who is collecting the money. It has nothing to do with protecting the American people from "terrah". How these dufus, blind, koolaid drinking followers are still believing this is beyond me.

Unfortunately, I'm beginning to think that the Dems (especially w/ Pelosi's recent comment) are backing stuff like that also. Is it to late for America? I'm getting an awful uneasy feeling about the answer.

[unblock]

2. i had a problem with a credit card balance transfer once

i get offers for low-interest balance transfers all the time. the only actual debt i had was my home equity line of credit, but they would only to a balance transfer to another credit card. so i transfered what i could to another credit card, resulting in a large credit on the other card, then asked them to send me a check, which i would then send to my home equity line.

the last time i tried this, the receiving credit card REFUSED to accept the balance transfer. they said that i am not allowed to have a large credit balance on my account due to some provision in the patriot act. so i had to unwind the whole deal.

i am baffled as to how having a credit balance on a credit card has anything to do with fighting terrorism.

:wtf:

[FloridaPat]

3. This is starting to get scary. There is definately something

rotten in the USA. But you would think that with all the home closing done in the last couple of years, more real estate people and lawyers would have this problem.

[Jersey Devil]

4. Perhaps the amount triggered it

Though this is considered a fairly well to do area, most of my real estate transactions are in the range of $500,000 or less. Perhaps that after a database analysis of my past banking transactions, a $1.2 million deposit tripped a red flag, an "unusual" transaction for me. I have asked other lawyers about it since and none were aware of it. It could be, however, that their mortgage payoff checks did not hit their banks as quickly as mine did (the next day).

[PATRICK]

5. Shadows that need lighting

As with e-voting fraud we see figures scuttling here and there among the tabulators, visiting precincts to change software, etc. But we never get a picture of who or how many would be involved in the schemes and, in an organized way, what the team would be doing.

So in the NSA case there are the amassers ordered form their appointed bosses. Many of these are coming out or oppose this illegal harvest. But who has access to the information? Who in particular from which agencies or government sector gets to play around with the search engines, cross references and data arrangements? Does this allow a political operative to slip in and listen?

Hoover had a select group of pals he would share his tapes with. The President of course and any other person who might later be in position to take Hoover to account. They share Abu Graib photos they don't want us to see. Do they share select portions from particular Americans of interest? Wouldn't that spread out to GNC planners and operatives and others? Or is the inner circle very tight in this case? Don't look for the stunted imagination and MIA curiosity of MSM newshounds to stop simply shifting the barrier of the Unthinkable to new lows and covering their eyes.

Eventually one knows how this will turn out even if some "benevolent" law abiding president takes over this abuse and makes it work against terrorism only or some such benefit. In a world where scientific and news information is powerful and swiftly spread among a vast number of very educated global citizens the concern among the Old School is to warp the freedom into a new tool of oppression. Match, set and game. They do this with all progress, every discovery or invention and every advance in human civilization or religion. Warp it back to tyranny and darkness. Ignorance and brute power must rule.

But it can't. The bad guys are running around the inside of a nuclear plant desperately throwing switches. For sure the radiant truth will destroy them. But it may destroy the rest of us as well.

[FrogOne]

6. Actually, I'll bet direct marketing agencies...

Actually, I'll bet direct marketing agencies have more intelligence on who buys what books, subscribes to what magazines, contributes to what charities, bank deposits, etc.

[blondeatlast]

7. They also know you haven't paid up your HF dues.

You're in trouble now...

And Agent Mike knows, too.

[newyawker99]

8. Hi FrogOne!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[FrogOne]

9. Back at ya

Hi!