Sort of new to group

[gaspee]

I've been reading here for ages, but just got a star due to the generosity of a fellow DU'er.

I posted these words in another thread... but this doesn't have anything to do with that thread, so I'm not calling anyone out here.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I'm almost ready to join the radical feminist seperartist movement.

When I imagine a world without men, I'm quite happy. Maybe I'm getting old. Maybe I'm sick of women being judged by any man as to whether she's fuckable or not, then deciding her worth based on his dick. I'm sick and tired of picking up my newspaper and reading of another woman or child raped or murdered.

I'm sick of turning on my television and seeing the sexual and or sadomachistic abuse of women as ENTERTAINMENT. How many law and orders do we need? How many CSI's -- each another excuse to turn the very real terrorization of women into entertainment for the masses.

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I'm tired of woman being less than. I'm tired of the three major religions blaming women for all the evils of the world. Original sin, anyone?

Like I said, I'm just plain sick and tired.

And I imagine a world without men and then smile.

I know, not a popular opinion, but for now, I'm sticking to it. Ask me again when I'm no longer sick and tired of being sick and tired. If that ever happens again.

About the only men I can stomach these days are gay men. At least they don't base your worth on whether they want to stick their dick in you. It's not asking for much, but it's astounding how few straight men can manage it.

[ismnotwasm]

1. Welcome

I hope you find refuge and solace. We don't all agree here, but I find it comforting to check in here daily, and know that I'm not alone.

Are you familier with this website?
http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/

On of my daily stops, although I've been remiss lately. Soothes the mind and eases the soul.

When I'm really pissed, I reread the S.C.U.M manifesto. So I can go there, trust me.

Again welcome!

[Warpy]

2. I'm old and ugly and no longer have a physical use for them

but there are a few whose company I truly enjoy, whose opinion I value, and whose respect I treasure. At this point in my life, whether a man is gay or straight is completely irrelevant and it shows. I wouldn't trade where I am for being 20 again for all the wealth of the world.

While there have been periods in my life when I wished they would all go away, those periods have been limited by meeting one who is worthwhile or by simply realizing that they're all human, too, and that even hypersexual blowhards can be hurt.

Welcome to the group, but be aware that a few worthwhile men post here, too.

[noamnety]

3. Hi, Welcome!

Everything Warpy said seems to have been written about me. :)

[bliss_eternal]

4. Somehow I doubt either of you

are ugly. Older women are beautiful. I hope neither of you is saying (or insinuating that you are).:(

This may sound weird, but I love to see the way that time, life and experience is expressed in a woman's eyes, the wisdom, experience, etc. Does that make sense?

It seems to only be in America that older women (over 40 here :eyes:) are told they are old or ugly--in Europe it's quite a different story.

Ironically, Desperate Housewives (of all things) seems to be changing some of the over 40 ageism, and at least we're seeing more women over this age in advertising, on tv, film, etc. But I'd like to see this spread to the over 50 and 60 demographic and beyond. I'm sick of seeing women discarded at a certain age. Harumph!

[spooky3]

7. yes, but one issue I have with the Hollywood "over 40" portrayals

is that they find women who, naturally or with a lot of hard work and the help of plastic surgeons, chefs, and trainers, look much younger than their years, compared to most Americans. Then, if the show is successful, the pundits talk about how wonderful it is that the audience is beginning to embrace women over 40 (or whatever the age of the actor in question). When we begin to portray women who actually look their ages, and react to them as lovable, sexy, admirable, interesting, etc., THEN we will be making progress.

[bliss_eternal]

9. Excellent point...!

You are SO right! :applause: Thank you.

A bit off topic, but this is one of the things that turned me off from Oprah. She went from "getting" mere mortal (non-celebrity) women to being the person that endorses (or assumes) "her lifestyle" as something all her viewers can have (or should have). The woman that had weight issues is now telling people,"...hire that trainer, consult with a chef, get the cosmetic procedure--you're worth it!" :eyes:

Sure, we're ALL worth it, but women that are single parents, dependent on a sole income, heck even married women may have other financial priorities, less disposable income and not see such purchases as "necessary."

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. She promotes consumerism and consumption and then

Turns around and puts people like Suze Ormond on the show to scold you about "getting your finances together" by not buying lattes and paying off your credit cards. The next day she'll have yet another wardrobe or home makeover show to make the viewer feel like a loser for not having the latest fashions.

I swear, the woman embodies Republicanism though she may claim to be a liberal.

[bliss_eternal]

11. Thank YOU!

:applause: Perfect examples!

I was nodding along while reading your post! Some on DU have flamed me for saying that Oprah constantly contradicts herself. :eyes:

For example, she goes on ad nauseum about how she loves herself now, and doesn't need anyone or anything outside of Oprah--blah, blah how all women need to get to that point, blah, blah--she stays on the air and has her "periodical" so that she can pursue this mission to help women believe...blah, blah.

One night while on vacation, I was channel surfing on the hotel tv and encounter Oprah returning from a commercial break. She says,"...today I'm talking with my friend Salma Hayek." (Then she turns aside, and says to Salma, who's off camera...)"You ARE my friend, aren't you?" :eyes: Thought you didn't need anyone's validation, Oprah.

I'll be honest, I used to watch her show from time to time. As I noticed these contradictions, I stopped. The other one that got me is the way she says,"...the American public is celebrity obsessed,...we've got to get away from that." Yet she'll sit on her couch and fawn over the celebrities when they're on her show, ignoring ordinary citizens that are guests--or just being rude to them. She cuts every guest off, to share her "personal experience" with the subject matter, as if she's an expert on EVERYTHING. When there aren't any celebrities on the show she's incessantly name dropping. "When I was at Q's party--that's what we call Quincy Jones..." :banghead:

There may have been a time that she was less "consumption" oriented, but it seems the more success she's had the more she sells women out that way.

[Greyhound]

18. It's the Boomer's, and those of us that follow it are keenly aware of

this. Our whole lives have been subject to incessant pandering to this most heinous generation.

The Boomer's are looking at 60 so of course, getting older is now OK. A case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

My advance apologies to any members of the generation that choose to be offended by this statement.

[bliss_eternal]

5. Welcome, gaspee...!

:hi: Feel free to vent here all you want. Sometimes some will even join in with you. ;) We're always happy to have new members! Hope you enjoy your time here!

[BlueIris]

6. I feel you, fellow feminist, I feel you. I'm not getting my hopes up

about the possibility of ever meeting a non-misogynist male again. Ever. And I'm alright with that. Nothing I can do about the dearth of feminist males in the world, so I've decided the best thing to do is just accept the situation and focus on my own happiness, priorities and health. I wish my life could include relationships, but well, I tried being with women and that didn't work out. (I heard that in order for a woman to be happy in a sexual relationship with a female partner she generally has to identify as gay or bi and well, I didn't get those genes in this life cycle; I guess I'm kinda up the proverbial creek as far as that option is concerned.) Single life suits me well, actually. It's better than exposing myself to misogynists in order to "have a relationship," an "{accomplishment" far too many women continue to see as something all too precious and important to do without.

So, don't feel bad, you're not the only one who is frustrated and sad about the situation feminists face when it comes to our sad, sorry, pathetic excuse for a male populace. 'Cause it's sad, sorry and pathetic.

[ThomCat]

8. Welcome!

I hope we can be here for you.

And I hope the only guys you find in here are those of us who are allies and friends.

[foxeyes2]

12. Man here please don't throw stones LOL!

Hello all, I am new to this forum and relatively new to DU as far as posting goes. I am a card carrying member of NOW.
I have the great honor of knowing the NOW national Officers such as Kim Gandy, Melody Drnach, Latifeh Lyles and Olga Vives. I worked in their campaign hospitality suite in 2005 when they held their nation convention in Nashville and held elections. I know most if not all the Tennessee NOW leaders and the Nashville chapter leaders and members.
I say all of this not to brag but let you know that I am in deed a feminist not just in word.

I can understand being frustrated with all the misogyny, all the anti-woman, anti-feminist, anti-progressive men out there. I know it is rough, it has to be discouraging, and women must be bone tired of having to deal with little boys in grown men bodies. But I urge you not to judge all men by the same bolt of cloth, do not lump all of us together, just like you do not want to be lumped together with all the women of the world,(Ann Coulter).
Do not give up hope and do not let the bad turn you away from the good. Realize that there are good honest men out there who believe in full equality for all people.

Do not allow bigots and ignorants to determine your worth. Your worth is determined by fiat not consensus and no one man can diminish your value. They do not have the power unless you cede it to them.

Let each of us continue the fight for full equality for all.

Peace

Foxeyes

[lukasahero]

13. You are responding to a man. (ThomCat)

Welcome to DU and thank you for investigating this group. However, the groups are run a little differently than the rest of the board and it might behoove you to read the rules here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x1

Primarily among them, "- This is not a group to discuss gender, class or sexual orientation rights and issues. It is specifically to discuss women's rights and issues as they affect women from a woman's perspective and experience."

It's not the best idea for your first post in this group to tout the "not all men are..." meme. We've heard it. We know it. This is the one place we don't have to begin every sentence with it.

[foxeyes2]

14. Wow

I really am not sure how to respond to that. I didn't think that I had violated any of the rules by my post.
If you read my entire post the part about "not all men" is a small part of it. this kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Oh well I wrote what I felt, looking over it I still see nothing wrong with what I said so can't let it bother me.

[noamnety]

15. Please don't feel insulted

I don't think Lukasahero was attacking you at all. Rather, she's just letting you know the culture of this group is such that we don't feel the need to attach the this-does-not-apply-to-all-men disclaimer to all our posts in this group. We're definitely welcoming to men who pull up a chair here, and if you can quietly assume that disclaimer without feeling like you need to take a stand in defense of men whenever we don't use it, you'll save yourself a lot of needless typing. :)

[foxeyes2]

17. But I was insulted

The problem that I have is that it was my very first post. Now if I said the same thing over and over again then I could understand it being adressed.It's not very welcoming to criticize someone's very first post. Secondly I think that it was pertinent to the orignal message of this thread which I meant to reply to but messed up. Also the rest of my post is being ignored because of it. So yeah I do feel insulted. That won't stop me from working on feminist issues, I won't give up my NOW membership but will have consider whether posting here is worth the trouble.

[lukasahero]

19. I apologize that my post sounded harsh.

It was not my intent. My intent was to get you to consider the rules of this group and to understand there are some assumptions that you will have to make. Since you are also new to DU, I should not have assumed you understood the history here or in the DU community as a whole.

On the other hand, if this reception is enough for you wonder whether posting here is worth your effort, only you can decide how committed to women's issues you are and how much "heat" you are willing to put up with for it.

[foxeyes2]

20. What rule?

What rule did I break? I read the link you posted and I do not understand how me saying "all men are ..." is a violation of any written rule. Especially since the original poster on this thread was saying to the effect she was tired of all men. My post was meant to empathize with her frustration while encouraging her that some of us men are not the enemy. Is that not allowed? Now if the "rule" is an unwritten one then I should not be criticized for "breaking" it.

Now you are trying to question my commitment to women's issues because I don't like being insulted?
How does that make any sense? How does my displeasure for being called out on my very first post make me any less
committed to women's issues and equality? Are you saying that I should take "heat" simply because I am a man?
You don't know me at all yet you feel free to make judgement calls about my sincerity? Maybe it would behoove you to
go back read my entire first post and look for the message that I was conveyin, the whole thing. If you misundertood my intent then I am sorry but to me it was clear what I was saying.

[noamnety]

21. dude, you're digging yourself in further

I've been in the exact same situation that you're in - last month, in fact, in a different circle of people. One of the DUers spent a lot of time privately (emphasis on PRIVATELY) talking me down from it. So I understand where you are coming from better than you know.

However, the rules for this group are that we discuss things as they affect women from a woman's perspective.

If you feel you need to defend men as a group because we did not include a disclaimer "not all men" in a post, that would be a complaint from a man's perspective and would be better placed in GD. While it's the first time you personally complained about the missing disclaimer, it's about the 5 millionth time some of us have been on the receiving end of it. It gets tiresome. Even more than the rules, I think some of the stuff here (particularly G.5.): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=341&topic_id=7654&mesg_id=7747#G. will give you a better idea of the culture here - maybe not strict DU rules, but you'll avoid the most common things that provoke irritation if you read through this.

To come into the woman's space and continue to take up room here (metaphorically speaking) to talk about how our discussion affects you, as a man, is a kind of typical masculine way of dominating a conversation and turning it around so that you are the focus. We aren't here to insult you, but neither are we here for the purpose of soothing men's bruised egos. It's kind of like a supervisor walking into a union meeting and trying to turn the conversation into a discussion about how he personally feels when he's accused of not caring about health benefits. Wrong time and place, that's not what the union meeting is for.

One of my friends refers to this sort of thing as an "energy sink." I like that phrase. With that in mind, I'm going to invite you to message me privately if you want to talk through any of this, because like I said, I really have been in your shoes, recently enough that it still feels a little raw to me, to be honest. But I don't think taking up more space here is the right way to deal with this.

[foxeyes2]

22. Maybe

You know I have read what you wrote and have started to reply several times. There is a number of things that could be said. But if I do say them then some will think I am trying to make it all about me. So if I committed a sin by responding in a way that I felt was appropriate for the orignal poster then I guess I am sorry. I stand by my message in the post though that she or any other woman can not allow men to determine their worth. That all women's self worth is theirs to claim for themselves. That message has been ignored because I used a term, innocently used a term, that is apparently outlawed here. That to me as a human being does not make sense.

[noamnety]

23. One of the great disappointments in my life

is that in the times when I have the most eloquent and heartfelt self-defenses prepared, it seems like others are never appropriately interested in listening to them. :D

[Finder]

24. Welcome to the forum(and to DU). Good first post...

and you will find there are many of us who appreciate and understand your sentiment.

[ThomCat]

16. Yes, what lwfern said.

I'm a guy. This is my favorite small forum here at DU. I post here a lot.

I feel very welcome here and I think I am able to contribute. I'm sure you can too. Welcome.