I'm going to make you my admin.

[Senior citizen]

Or:

Interesting post -- I'm going to make you my mod.


Just a trial balloon here, but what if we used one of the above responses to any post that used a word we find insulting?

Would it go right over their heads, or is there a chance that they might get it?

[Hello_Kitty]

1. It actually took me a second

Gawd, it's getting late. I don't know if they'd get it but it'd be fun to try.

[Senior citizen]

2. Strangely enough, I was able to find my post

even though the entire thread was deleted.

I was responding to someone who didn't seem to "get it," and here's what I said:

I can't help it if teenage boys and girls often don't listen to
older civil rights activists and feminists. With any luck they may survive long enough to understand. When a teenaged boy in a prison or juvenile detention facility tells another teenaged boy, "I'm going to make you my b.....," he may not be conjuring images of abused women in his mind, but he certainly isn't conjuring images of equality.

Context is important. The same design on a Jainist or Buddhist temple has a different meaning than when spray-painted on the door of a synagogue.

The context here on DU is a diverse milieu that should feel welcoming to anyone who isn't a freeper or a troll.

Cyrano de Bergerac made fun of his own nose, but would allow no one else to do so. I have no objection whatsoever to people calling themselves and their friends whatever they feel comfortable with, but if they're going to enter the general population it might behoove them to understand how others feel and how to comport themselves so as not to cause problems. It's a survival thang.

-----------

So that's what gave me the idea of using a different word in that particular context to see if it woke anyone up.

[FizzFuzz]

5. I missed it completely.

Was busy wrangling on another sexist thread....

sheesh.

I'm so wiped out, oy I should have gotten to bed hours ago

good post, SC.
I just want to say, I often really agree with your posts, I don't always reply though, it would just be, me too! I agree!, all the time.


And context, you're so right. (funny one of the guys I was wrangling with was using context against the women saying b--- was harmful. But he was twisting it, purposely ignoring the context he claimed they were misinterpreting)

[Senior citizen]

7. Thank you, FizzFuzz. I usually agree with you too.

The most valuable thing we can do in this group, IMO, is keep each other's spirits up. 5,000 years of patriarchy, and every overpopulation peak and subsequent die-off (for which I happen to hold patriarchy solely responsible) seems to send us back to square one.

Okay (as the musicians say), let's take it from the top, one more time.

:grouphug:

[FizzFuzz]

9. oh yeah I remember that post you did about overpopulation and die off

I've made some enemies on DU for my overpopulation remarks....like sexism, that one pisses people off too

I have a belief that I don't share too often, hope it doesn't get me in hot water here, that its childrearing that holds women back....but I'm really really dead tired right now, and its not a well thought out argument and I would never want to have kids, I see the benefits to women weigh out to far less than the costs.

That and the fact that we mostly can't use a punch in the nose to get our way.

And thanks, glad you agree with my views too, that 's good support.

You're right too about the support here. My first several months here, I pissed off some people who don't want to have their sexism challenged. It got me down sometimes, the feeling that I was getting the silent treatment by some. Or the relentless parade of people so self absorbed, they can't grok that women are people....it astounds me, the hate responses to women who rock the patriarchal boat.

Well, on the other hand, thank goodness there are alot of strong women making their mark, kicking ass, taking names now.

[Eloriel]

12. Is that historically true?

every overpopulation peak and subsequent die-off (for which I happen to hold patriarchy solely responsible) seems to send us back to square one.

(I'm historically chellenged, aka: ignorant of history.)

I didn't realize that. Can you elaborate (for the edification of the historically challenged)?

[Eloriel]

11. That is a superb response, just superb

But the "make you my admin" thing went way over my head...for what felt like several minutes. AND, it's not nearly insulting enough.

Ya gotta come up with something that hurts (in their imagination): make you my John Bobbitt comes to mind (tho could get deleted); make you my eunuch slave; make you my Abu Ghraib electrical termal tester; and the like. I'm not actually recommending any of these, just brainstorming the kind of thing that might -- MIGHT -- capture their attention enough to get thru to them. Kinda like the story about the old mule that had to be whacked upside the head with a 2x4 before you gave them any sort of command: First you've got to get his attention.

In any case, you have to come up with something probably both demeaning and/or humiliating, and something that captures their imagination and attention in a painful way.

[Kenneth ken]

3. I got it

but I don't know if that's necessarily the way to go. Admins and Mods have power here, so they might see it as affirmative rather than derogatory. Or is that the direction you were thinking; trying to equate a haeful word with power and so change the usage and empower the word? That might be too subtle.*

Since I'm now thinking in that context, maybe replying Padraig is that you? Or CubanLiberal is that you?

In case anyone isn't aware, Padraig18/CubanLiberal was a person who posted here for quite a while as two different people. Wasn't all that well liked for some of his/her/its opinions. Finally got banned.

or maybe not.

* I tried to change the N word once when I was in college. I started applying it to the little white plastic ball used in Foosball; a couple other people picked that up, but one day I almost got my a** kicked by a very large person who was not at all amused. So I gave up on that idea.

[Senior citizen]

4. No way.

It is precisely because they have power that they're not going to let anyone else "make" anyone an admin or mod, and certainly not "their" admin or mod. They believe that they are worthy of respect, and indeed they are. But that doesn't make everyone else less worthy of respect.

I'm not trying to change the meaning of the word here, just to remind people that many find its common meaning insulting. And if they think it isn't insulting, then they wouldn't mind being referred to themselves in an analogous manner.

The fact is that in-your-face threads get deleted, so we have no choice but to go for subtle. And to keep trying until we find a way to communicate. As every student of nonviolent conflict resolution knows, communicating with violent or abusive people isn't easy. They're more likely to become violent or abusive than to communicate because that's how they are. But it has been done, it can be done, and we will do it.

On edit: Did that very large person happen to explain to you that the reason many civil rights activists and feminists happen to find both the n-word and the b-word so offensive that they must be taken seriously and not joked about, is that both have commonly been used in the context of human property? Or that those whose heritage includes slavery should not enslave others? Very large people sometimes seem to have a natural gift for nonviolent conflict resolution. At the very least, they are able to "get the mule's attention" without using a 2" x 4" -- their mere presence is usually sufficient.

[Kenneth ken]

6. give it a try.

I'm all in favor of helping people think and learn.


edit: I don't mean that to sound like me giving permission. I just don't know if it will have the effect you desire, but am interested in learning what does and doesn't work in teaching. So, count me an interested observer, possible helper.

[Senior citizen]

8. So noted and duly counted.

Or something like that. Mind if I call you Kool Ken?

[Kenneth ken]

10. call me what ever you want

just don't call me late to dinner; especially if I'm supposed to cook it. :7

[Eloriel]

13. Many find the meaning insulting? Doesn't matter -- dictator is

insulting too, but does the dictator care? Not usually. When you have all the power, the petty complaints of the rabble doesn't need to furrow your brow for a moment.

[Senior citizen]

14. Yup.

They just won again. I'm leaving DU for a while until I can recover from the "unpleasant racist and sexist vocabulary" thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3996668&mesg_id=3996668

Obviously DU is NOT really here to promote progressive ideals. I sent a flamebait alert, but I doubt if the thread will be locked.

Keeping DU as uncomfortable and intimidating as possible to potential new donors, by using unpleasant racist and sexist terms, is not something I can buy into, but apparently the admins do. That's why we have this group. But at the moment the clever, spiteful, hatefulness of the OP in that thread has just won out, and I'm doing exactly what they wanted. I'm leaving DU. I'll be back. Maybe even in a few hours. But many others who aren't as tough as I am, who have never been homeless, never been in institutions, and never hung out with some of the most intimidating people in the country, will never register in the first place. And DU doesn't really care.

This isn't a progressive board, it's an extreme sport.

[Finder]

15. Well DU and the Feminist movement is made up of lots of individuals.

If a thread makes someone uncomfortable then it is easy enough to bite your lip(fingers)and go to the next(I do that all the time). I can't imagine going through a bookstore and pulling books I found offensive and calling the clerks or manager to "take care of it."

The mods and Skinner are pretty good at deleting posts that are flamebait or that are truly offensive.

And don't think the Freepers aren't getting a kick out of the censorship or what they call the "feminazis" over here.

I don't understand why some want to "eat our own"?

[Senior citizen]

16. I think I may have explained it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3996668&mesg_id=3999355

But I don't think the OP will agree with me, and you may not agree with me either. But I'm right and I'll continue to fight for progressive values and ideals while there is breath left in me.

As for freepers, this board is not meant for them, it is meant for liberals and progressives. I don't think it is "eating your own" to fight sexism and racism whereever they rear their ugly heads. Racists and sexists certainly aren't "my own," they are my enemies.

This group should not be necessary. This argument should not be necessary. I can't imagine you going to a white supremacy or pornography bookstore and pulling racist or sexist books you found offensive or calling the clerks and managers to take care of it. You should have known what to expect when you entered the store. But I can't imagine myself not doing so if I found racist or sexist books in a progressive bookstore. They simply don't belong there.

On edit: I guess I'll soon find out if my argument was effective. So long as those defending unpleasant sexist and racist words appear to be winning, the thread is unlikely to be locked. But if those of us who oppose unpleasant sexist and racist words appear to be winning, the thread is likely to be locked immediately. I wonder what that says about DU?

[Lars39]

17. There is no reason for there to be an imperative sentence

using "bitches", in any subject line in any forum at DU.
And there is absolutely no reason why I should ignore it and move on to the next thread.