Is relationship violence always an issue of misogyny?

[lightningandsnow]

This kind of stems from the thread about Bruce Pardo.

Most relationship violence (at least, in heterosexual relationships) is understood by many feminists to be an issue of societal misogyny. I have to say I agree with this. Relationship violence would definitely not be as prevalent if men were taught to think of women as equals. Although I still think it would occur, which brings be to my next point.

Although women abusing their male partners is fairly rare, there is a disturbing prevalence of same-sex partner violence. This is often overlooked for many reasons, including systemic homophobia and transphobia, and the belief that violence in a same-sex relationship is a "fair fight". It is estimated, from this website (http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/sexual_assault/ssdv.htm) that abusive LGBTQ relationships are about as common as abusive straight ones.

What does a feminist make of this? So, do we consider relationship violence an issue of gender, or one, simply, of power and violence?

[ismnotwasm]

1. Who is in power?

Do I think if women were on equal standing with men violence would drop? In a word, yes.
Misogyny has very deep roots and is integrated in our culture. I'm one of those who believe we live in a rape culture for instance. I also think homophobia (Is there a better word Aspiegirl? "Phobia" indicates obsessive fear, and we are dealing with hate, I want to use a word that expresses that)cannot be separated from misogyny.

Some of the violence seems almost primal (I HATE evolutionary Psych)But even a cursory examination of major religions show a deep fear of women who are inferior and "unclean" fear leads to hate and resentment. I won't get into the whole mommy thing.

I've posted this before I know, but when I attended a forensic nursing conference a couple of years ago now, when intimate partner violence was addressed, they used elements of society people choose to ignore. The deaf community. The undocumented worker community, and the LGBTQ community. I wish I would have kept some of the information, (I hope like hell I can go this year, but I'm taking another certification class that's pretty lengthy)

Anyway, the speaker said that the rate intimate partner violence in LGBTQ community is the same as the straight community. However, the police response is different, one thing the speaker brought up is the stereotype of the "bulldyke" So what if she's a bigger woman who, I don't know, say, does construction for a living. Her appearance works against her in the prejudiced eyes of the law. The speaker made a point of saying it doesn't matter how big you are, or what you do for a living or even if you have some sort of martial arts training. Abuse is abuse. She brought up the same thing you are, the feminist angle of women being frequent victims of sexual abuse as a gender issue, which it most often is, but what about same sex partners? Do we, as feminists ignore that issue because we're not dealing with strict gender roles.

Fuck no. (I say)

The most frightening story she told was of a Gay man who was in imminent danger of his life from his partner, they literally had to use a type of underground railroad to get him away to save his life. He had NO recourse. No help. In my city, there are NO shelters for Gay men/transgender. They won't let M to F in female shelters as far as I know.

It's a damn mess.

[lightningandsnow]

2. Awesome post.

I agree with everything you said. And you're way more articulate than me.

:yourock:

[noiretextatique]

4. in the lesbian community, some women identify as male

some want to be addressed with male pronouns, wear men's clothing exclusively, etc. not all butch women identify with maleness to that extreme, but there are some who do. i've been out in the lesbian world for over 25 years and unfortunately, lesbians aren't any more feminist than straight women.
i've been having a private conversation with bliss-eternal about this because i've been very disturbed by what i see in my black lesbian community.

i was involved with an abusive woman many years ago. she was much smaller than me so she could not physically hurt me when she went on her drunken tirades. but one night when i'd finally had enough of her shit and didn't give a damn about her threats to kill herself and after i'd picked her up and thrown her about 5 feet...she hit me with a crowbar. so much for her being too small to hurt me. my ex wasn't particularly male-indentified, but she did watch her father viciously beat her mother for years.

not all male-indentified women are abusive assholes, but there are some who are.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. yeah, but this presumes that the masculine identified one is doing the attacking

i have known many butch girls who were the victims not the oppressors

there are plenty of female identified lesbians who are violent

[noiretextatique]

7. per my own example, it's not always butch women

who are the abusers. however, i do believe some of the attitude and behaviors adopted by some male-indentified lesbians are sexist and misogynistic. sometimes it's subtle, and sometimes it's not so subtle.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. i find just as much sexism amongst femme women and the only violent ones i have known are femmes

[noiretextatique]

10. i don't find as much sexism among femme women

but i don't find feminism either. i know femmes who are violent too. i am talking about what i hope is a very small subset of butch women. the ones i know are african-american because that's the community i belong to.
these butch women justify abuse of their partners and are generally as assholish as a typical sexist man. i know of one woman with this mindset who beat her g.f. so viciously that her case awakened the DA's office where she was prosecuted to the issue of sex-gender abuse.

our experiences my be different...obviously they are, but please don't insinuate that i am making some blanket statement with no basis in reality. i see this shit everyday in the community where i live.

[noiretextatique]

11. i am saying: there is a problem with butch women beating up their girlfriends

not all butch women, of course, but i see that as a problem in the community where i live. does that mean all butch women beat their girlfriends...um, no. does that mean only butch women beat their girlfriends, no. is that clear? or do i need to be even more specific?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. i am saying your anecdotal experience is very different from my anecdotal experience

should i be clearer or do you get it?

[noiretextatique]

14. i get it...but what is your point?

everyone's experience is different...doesn't mean mine isn't valid, and your tit-for-tat responses seem to imply that. you annoy me for some reason, so you have the honor of being the first person on my ignore list.

[bliss_eternal]

9. oh no...

:scared:

I'm so sorry you experienced this. :hug:

An in-law was shocked when I told her if my relative ever raised his hand to hit her, to grab your child and get the hell out (no matter what). His mother and grandmother made excuses for him (which surprised me). Especially since his mother was abused by his father. Seeing it frequently translates to "this is how I express anger, fear, frustration, need for power, etc." Knowing that informed my advice.

[noiretextatique]

12. because she was smaller than me and never hurt me

i didn't recognize the situation as abusive...until she tried to kill me. of course, this was after i finally fought her back (never wanted to hurt her). she was a 4'11" bully, and i stayed in that situation for all the wrong reasons, but thankfully i didn't stay long. she manipulated me with threats of suicide, etc., but then i finally got to the point where i didn't give a damn if she did kill herself. yes, some people do learn to express frustration and anger via violence, like your in-law and my ex.

[BlueIris]

3. Thanks for bringing up the problem of violence in same-sex relationships.

I've encountered many alleged feminists who think it doesn't exist. Which always leaves me infuriated.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

5. no. its a large part of the problem but not the full problem.