Since The Addiction Recovery Forum Is NOT A 12 Step Program

[SPKrazy]

I am more than willing to listen to helpful and constructive suggestions that help people recover.

I found recovery through the 12 steps. Where I lived there was nothing else.

I am supportive of whatever works for anyone.

I will not be critical at all of whatever works, if it works! If it doesn't, then I am sorry it doesn't. I'm happy to share my experience, strength, and hope with anyone. I'm happy to listen to whatever within reason.

However the minute someone starts criticizing what I do, or making global stereotypes about 12 step programs in general based on their experiences with a group, or individuals, then the buck stops there.

I am using one of the tools of DU as a new recovery tool in this forum. The Ignore feature works!

I suggest that this forum be used for discussion of support and help for recovering individuals and not turn into some kind of place where I or anyone has to feel a need to defend their style of recovery.

Don't lash out at people's choices of recovery, don't mess with success.

Ignore works!

:hi:

on edit: If you work it! :D

[NMDemDist2]

1. 'where I lived, there was nothing else'

that is true for so many people around the world.

with that thought in mind, one must ask "Why not?" why aren't there more paths available? why aren't there recovery clinics and groups popping up like mushrooms, when the need is so great?

it must be because only a 'cult' is self sustaining! that must be the reason :sarcasm:

or could it be that there is a group of people who have found a way to recover who know that sharing this knowledge is an integral way to continue their sobriety? I only shudder to think where I would be today if all those people who had found the answer and then went on with their lives hadn't been there when I needed something, ANYTHING so desperately to help me find a way out.

Maybe that is why there aren't a zillion RR groups or MM groups around. Do they teach service as part of the recovery process? I honestly don't know. What I do know is the 'Service' part of the three legacies is why those people were there to hold my hand, kick my ass and love me in spite of my unlovely self at the time.

Sorry to thread jack you here, but I am waxing philosophic today :evilgrin:

Ignore works--If you work it! :rofl:

[SPKrazy]

2. nada where i lived

and i was in no shape to start something on my own

and prolly not bright enough or ambitious enough to do so either.

but service, singleness of purpose, and lack of controversy within the fellowship (as well as group autonomy)

are all things that keep AA up and running, as well as many other 12 step programs

i don't know much about other programs

i don't criticize them if they work for people great

i don't understand anyone having the need to make their "recovery" about bashing another's recovery program, that sounds pretty self limiting.

i know that the "recovery groups" that started around the idea of temperance, and the prohibition movement, failed utterly.

addictions are tricky things. if willpower (or lack thereof) were the problem, then there would be something to address. However, willpower isn't lacking in addicts of any kind. It's the misdirection of willpower that exists. It takes a lot of willpower to keep drinking, using, or whatever the addiction is.

Trying to use that willpower to "stop" the addiction is akin to trying to stop diarrhea with willpower.

However, there are many who have found a way to redirect that willpower in a direction that works.

:hi:

[FloridaJudy]

3. Nothing else where I live, either

But there are a large variety of AA meetings: some large, some small; some highly structured, some more free-form; some dominated by Big Book fundies, some more open to "non-approved" approaches and literature; some open to all, some restricted to those identifying as AA members. Each group votes its own conscience, and I find some groups more compatible with my own spiritually and style than others. I often find myself gravitating to mainly GBLT meetings, even though I'm straight, because I find them more accepting and non-judgmental.

I often find myself promoting AA in cyberspace, which is weird because I often find myself at odds with some aspects of the program. But I can't deny that over all, AA has been good to me. They offered me emotional support when I was feeling particularly miserable and unloved, and only asked what I could afford to donate in return (and many times, that was $0). On two occasions when I was at my financial bottom, I left an AA meeting to discover there was $20 more in my purse than I had when I walked in - someone had slipped the money in while my back was turned. A disabled vet offered me his bus pass when I was having car trouble, even though that would have meant that he would have to walk (I graciously declined).

So I do get a bit bent out of shape when people attack AA as some monolithic entity that's out to take over people's lives. Some people may be ordered to attend meetings by judges or professional boards: I was one at the beginning. But I don't personally know anyone who's been "forced" to accept all aspects of the program unquestioningly, nor do I know anyone who was obligated to work with any particular sponsor (it took me three sponsors to find the right one for me). And I do know at least three women whose lives were probably saved by their sponsors: two who had such overwhelming personal tragedies that it took months of hand-holding to keep them from drinking, and one whose sponsor decided to drop by and check on her when she didn't call. The sponsee was lying unconscious due to injuries she sustained in an accident.

If others have found a way to stay sober outside of AA, then more power to them. I would enjoy hearing about other ways to recover - maybe I could put them to use myself.

But please, please, don't attack what has helped me.

[Kajsa]

4. Thanks for posting this, Southpaw.

This thread is so necessary right now, when for the first time
since I joined this great group, several people have chosen to use
this forum as a platform for AA bashing.

That's not what this group is for.

I too, don't agree with many hard liners in the program.
Hell, I have attended meetings where I ended up wanting to drink, afterwords!
Why did I post that?
Because, when I heard a fellow AAer share that at another meeting, I let out a huge
sigh of relief, knowing I wasn't the only one, and I needed to find meetings
where I could get help, not more resentments.

I found them and experienced the love and fellowship all of you have described here.
When I needed to talk, someone was there.
When I needed a meeting, there was always one to go to.

And I have a terrific sponsor who, even though she now lives in another state,
I won't replace- she's that good.
I swear that woman has the best BS shredder around. It just disappears when
put in front of her.

I too, would like to hear more about other recovery programs that work for people
here and remember one of our members posting just that, not too long ago.
We were all supportive of her, no one torn it down.

We need to hear more about the SOLUTION .
We know what the problem is.

But when I don't, and only read AA bashing, I question
why certain people are here.

[NMDemDist2]

5. 'we need to hear more about the SOLUTION'

what a concept!!

I had to quit blaming other people, places and things on why my life was a mess. I had to take responsibility for my actions, my thoughts and my feelings. I had to take action to change *me* and accept that life wasn't fair and wouldn't bow to my ideal of 'perfection'.

My childhood was horrible, but who was keeping me there? I was. Those people only had the power of me that I was willing to give them. In sobriety I cut all ties with the toxic family members who weren't healthy for me to be around.

I made amends to *me* for letting them continue to abuse me emotionally years after I was an adult.

It always comes back to me and how I live and what choices I make that impacts my daily life, my emotional health and my serenity level.

I was talking to someone a couple days ago about the 1st step and something they saw in a MM website. This person thought that admitting I was powerless couldn't possibly be empowering. I tried to explain the paradox to this person, but I'm not sure I was articulate enough to make it clear. But I have found empowerment in admitting powerlessness. I am powerless over the past and what other people do. But I do have the power to make different choices today. I do have the power to move on from the past and build a better future. I am empowered today!

:pals:

[Kajsa]

6. You bet, AZDem!

By realizing that we don't have control over every
damn thing in our lives, and who does ?-( No One!)
it empowers us to focus our energy on things
that we can change.

The Serenity Prayer works wonders.
For Everyone!!

hint- I've seen it on many a teacher's desk,
teachers who are not in 12 step programs!


:hi: :pals:

[ellisonz]

7. Harm Reduction

Six Principles of Change

One. The belief that you can change is the key to change. This is not the powerlessness message of the 12 steps but rather the belief in self-efficacy. Addictions are really no different than other behaviors—believing you can change encourages commitment to the process and enhances the likelihood of success.

Two. The type of treatment is less critical than the individual’s commitment to change. People can select how they want to pursue change in line with their own values and preferences. They don’t need to be told how to change.

Three. Brief treatments can change longstanding habits. It is not the intensity of the treatment that allows people to change but rather its ability to inspire continued efforts in that direction.

Four. Life skills can be the key to licking addiction. All addictions may not be equal; the community reinforcement approach, with its emphasis on developing life skills, might be needed for those more severely debilitated by drugs and alcohol.

Five. Repeated efforts are critical in change. People do not often get better instantly—it usually takes multiple efforts. Providing follow-up allows people to maintain focus on their change goals. Eventually, they stand a good chance of achieving them.

Six. Improvement, without abstinence, counts. People do not usually succeed all at once. But they can show significant improvements; and all improvement should be accepted and rewarded. It is counterproductive to kick people out of therapy for failing to abstain. The therapeutic approach of recognizing improvement in the absence of abstinence is called harm reduction.

http://www.peele.net/lib/surprising.html

[SPKrazy]

8. Thanks for the post

Honestly I'm not a Peele fan, I am however not going to knock the principles of harm reduction because that is in fact a realistic approach for some.

:hi:

[ellisonz]

9. I think you really should reconsider Peele.

He's not so much going against AA as he's saying its simply not the appropriate solution for a sizable number of individuals.