Waldam about the Democrats and the heartland.

[Mass]

Great read and totally in relation with the thread yesterday.

http://gadflyer.com/flytrap/index.php?Week=200621#2746

Get Off Your Knees
Paul Waldman (5:55PM) link

...

Goldberg describes a wince-provoking incident in 2004 in which a well-intentioned Theresa Heinz Kerry urges a gathering of Missouri farmers to consider going organic as emblematic of the sort of comment that gives Dems an elitist image. Claire McCaskill, a Missouri state auditor who is currently in a close race for U.S. Senate explains the problem this way in Goldberg's article:

I think it's a tone thing. It's the 'We know better' thing. Some of it is completely unfair, but there's a critical number of people from the East Coast or West Coast who don't think that people in the heartland are smart

...

The truth is that if anything, Democrats work too hard to be "respectful" to the people of the heartland. Yes, they talk to them like they're children. But not because they're looking down on them - no, it's because they're trying so hard, after being prompted again and again by the press, to be "respectful." I love you and your heartland values! You people are so down-to-earth, so real, so genuine, so posessed of common sense! Please, please vote for me - look, I can hold up a hunting rifle! Was that good enough for you? No? Then let me milk this cow! Did that do it? No? Then I'll go to a stock car race! Will you vote for me now? Will you, huh, will you?

Democrats need to stop the pandering. The way you treat people in the South and Midwest with respect is to talk to them like adults. An essential part is not to pretend you don't believe what you believe. Because when, out of "respect," you try to hide who you are, guess what happens? People come away thinking you're a weak, pandering politician who doesn't know who he/she is.

...

[wisteria]

1. Good article. I agree, we need to stop pandering.

People can see right through that. I can also see how Teresa's well meaning suggestion could be taken the wrong way.

[karynnj]

2. It's also not a good example of pandering or being elitist

I would need to know more of the circumstances. Was it a speech? It sounds more informal and it could well have been the basis of a real conversation. It also sounds more like a question than a suggestion. Organic farming is more common now than it was decades ago.The fact is that whether in NJ, MA, VT, or IN, I've seen organic food in the supermarket.

I think a lot of the non- organic methods have major enviromental problems. The real question is whether there are means to get the yield needed using more earth friendly techniques at the same or less cost. Having read the NYT article in the food section, Teresa is interested in healthy diet and food. The question is how it was asked, who they responded and how Teresa then went on. Every source spoke of how good she was in both NH and Iowa just meeting people. I assume some of the Iowa people were farmers.

This could well have been a "green tea" story - where the reporter heard the question, thought OMG, and phased out. I would guess that a true conversation of MO farmers on organic vs inorganic could be respectful, non-pandering and informative. (Even if they told her how much easier non-organic farming was, how much more prodictive etc)

[Mass]

3. I dont think Waldam is not saying she is pandering.

I took this as meaning the opposite.

[karynnj]

4. You're right

Even the Golberg article was complaining that she wasn't pandering appropriately. The Waldam one is a great answer to all those recent posts that we need to win the white male Mississippi vote.

[JI7]

5. i agree

i alawys thought it was condescending . "they" can't relate. it's as if they have some inability to take in information and make out what people are saying. "stop speaking in long sentences" stop being so complicated etc.

i remember when one of the opponents in the primary tried to use a vote KErry made against some agricultural funding but people didn't fall for it since they knew that funding wasn't for them (small farmers) but for large agribusiness. pretty much corporate welfare.

people in the heartland were not offended by Teresa's speaking different languages and having an accent as some claim. i wonder if people who say these things ever go to the "heartland" themselves.

the reason Kerry has trouble with some voters is because he is too liberal for them on social issues and some fiscal issues. yeah, some people ARE right wing. that's just the way they are. it has nothing to do with connecting with someone. i read an article during the election which talked of Kerry meeting with some voters in conservative areas. some of these said they agreed with Kerry on fiscal issues. but they just couldn't get past his support for abortion and other social issues.

[JohnKleeb]

6. I believe there was one vote that was said that to have been by Kerry

but it was actually by Bob Kerrey the former Nebraska senator.

[JI7]

7. yeah, that was a different one from the one i mention

i don't think it was a mistake either to use Kerrey's vote against Kerry. thinking people wont get it.

[JohnKleeb]

8. In a way though I believe it was a farmers aid issue

and you'd think that Kerrey would be all for that coming from a heavily agriculture state like Nebraska.

[JI7]

9. Kerrey has always been kind of odd

he has always been popular in his state which is very conservative even when he votes liberal on things like gay rights and abortion.

but his record on these other fiscal issues is mixed. i heard he lost his chance in the 1992 primary when it was found out he didn't provide the health care that he was advocating in his campaign to the workers in his restaurant or some other business he had.

[JohnKleeb]

10. Chuck Robb was odd like that too

Quite socially liberal for a socially conservative state, Robb voted against Defense of Marriage and if I recall he was receptive to letting gays serve openly in the military.

[sandnsea]

12. Oh yeah well

What's good for agri-business isn't necessarily good for the family farmer and not every rural Dem is voting in the interest of the family farmer every single time.

The two votes I recall were on emergency appropriations and changing the Dept of Ag. I don't remember enough about the Kerrey vote to comment, but oh do I remember the Dept of Ag situation. lol. J17 is being quite kind saying "one of the opponents". Anyway, it was about his position on the Dept of Ag and subsidies that could be reduced, cut in half I think it was. Turned out the small farmers knew exactly what he was talking about and I don't know that it didn't go a long way to sealing the dealing. Stupid move by "one of the opponents".

As to the OP, in a lot of ways the environmentalists are way way behind what's going on out here. We've got Certified Green wood programs, truly sustainable logging operations, organic farms selling fresh food to schools, all kinds of things. And they're still stuck on no no no while the people in business are actually changing their ways. My local flooring company for instance, good Democrats that they are, constantly push the most eco-friendly floorings on the market. Right here in ho-bunk nowhere. Instead of the Democratic Party being on the forefront of all this change, we're still stuck with the nono crowd. We either look condescending or flat-out completely out of touch with what is really going on in this country.

[k j]

11. Thoughts from the heart of Rural Red...

"born and reared" (as we say) Midwesterner weighing in here... currently living in a rural red part of Missouri that is even redder (if such a thing is possible) than the state I grew up in-- Indiana.

I think much of the dissidence and disconnect could simply come from the "You're not from here" school of community. Example:
"You're not from here... your hair is too wild." (A comment I actually heard made about Teresa's hair.)

"You're not from here... you don't attend Wednesday night church service." (In this town, no one schedules anything on a Wednesday night, even at the university, because everyone knows, Wednesday nights belong to church.)

And one that was said to me personally,
"I don't understand why those West Coast Liberals don't get behind ethanol..."

There is an "us vs them" mentality that is alive and well, sad to say. Missouri was, and in many ways still is, a border state. I've heard about school districts that won't consider consolidation because of lines drawn during the Civil War... and families who lived here then still live here now.

So, in my opinion it isn't so much pandering or not pandering, it's a defensive behavior when anyone new to the area comes in. I mean, those new people might notice the sidewalks haven't been paved in 100 years or that some areas don't have running water yet (and by god we don't WANT running water!), and they'll want to raise taxes, liberals always want to raise taxes.

I dunno... I used to think there was hope for some parts of the red heartland, but after a few years here, I'm beginning to think it will take a long time to realize real change. Unless it has to do with alternative energy. And I truly think if Democrats don't grab that issue and FAST, they'll lose it to the Republicans.

Just my thoughts. They don't mean nuthin' ;-)


Edited to add: What I was attempting to say above was this: anything that smacks of "progressive," whether it be hairstyles (lol), new sidewalks, etc. etc., is not welcome and is seen as an attack on the way things are (and things are fine here, butt out, stranger), EXCEPT for ALTERNATIVE ENERGY. That is one area where everyone-- red and blue-- comes to agreement. The sentiment I heard was, "We want American Fuel not that foreign stuff." And in that area of progress alone, that's where the outsiders-- the Teresas, the Blues, the Democrats-- can join with the locals and fight the even bigger outsider, "those people" from the Middle East.

That's my sense of the disconnect, at any rate.

[sandnsea]

13. Reinforce their values

Not change them. That's key. We don't talk enough about medically necessary abortions and we should because that reinforces their values. We need science in order to be first in the world on innovation, their values. Repair sidewalks so our children need to be safe walking to school or the ice cream stand, their values.

I know all about the outsider thing, because it CAN be quiet annoying when new people come in and want to make a bunch of regulations over one person in the entire county having a junkyard. For chrissake, don't buy next to the guy if you dont't like it, ya' idjit. I know in Montana it was a weekly conversation with somebody, why in the world do they come here if they just want to turn it into the place they left. Although, having driven through SE Missouri last year, YIKES, it does need some changing. :scared:

[k j]

14. Oh... just a little bit of change...

would be soooo nice. LOL

Even so, I hate to disagree with you Sandnsea, but that was our thought too when we were first here. Reinforce the values and live them... SHOW what a real live blue progressive liberal looks and acts like, don't talk it, show it. Gentle persuasion. Don't mention the sidewalks. And find that common ground and highlight it and slowly bring in the so-called liberal viewpoint on the subject.

And the response? "Go cover (as a news story! which btw, I refused to write as news) the "traveling creation show" that denied evolution on a grand scale. I was told to "keep an open mind" as the guy gave his show because you know, maybe evolution really is bunk.

Gays: "Gays are sinners, period." This said by a woman whose own beloved son is one of the outwardly gayest men I've ever met. (He now lives on the West Coast)

My husband hearing a fellow prof telling his science class that "no one believes in evolution anymore."

ETC. If it wasn't so late, I'd compile a list. Which I probably outta do someday anyway. sandnsea, at this point, the only area of common ground I see here, at least in this county, is alternative energy.

Sigh.

[ProSense]

16. All I can say is

I've been to the South (long-term visitor) and I know what you mean from experience. Having said that, I've been to pockets in other parts of the country where similar sentiments prevail. People are sometimes set in their ways and averse to change.

[k j]

20. The resistance is flat out amazing

to witness. Long long story... a few months ago there was a signed contract (since broken by the company) with the local state university and a company from California to joinly have a biotechnology (biofuel) venture. Big, big, majorly huge deal. About 20 scientists and their families, with their large incomes, would be moving to this city of 10,500.

The local city school board (biggest school in the county) had their meeting and it was covered by the publisher of our local county paper. The statement was, "We don't want anyone else to move here."
That was it. They didn't want the venture, they didn't want the new students, the parents or the added revenue from the new tax base. Nothing. Didn't want them here. And, the publisher that relayed the conversation at the meeting to me is a die-hard Bush voting Republican, so I took her word for what when down, since she probably didn't have a bias. (Of course, the school board didn't have anything to do with the venture, but this was a pretty accurate description of the mood of the townies.)

??? Blows my mind. And Sandy's ideas above are right on... they just didn't work here.

Edited to add: And I have no doubt that although the venture was going to involve alternative energy, the fact that the state was involved (omg, taxes!) sunk the deal from the start among the townies.

[ProSense]

23. There is a word

for that behavior: I'm sure some people would dress it up and call it tradition, when in reality it's pure stubborness. How can anyone tell the difference when the reason driving both is that it's always been done that way. The reason is because!

[k j]

30. Because it's always been this way

It worked fine for grandpa and it works fine for me. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

28. See I never had that

The rural MT county I lived in, that voted for Bush, actually has a bio-engineering facility. They did some groundbreaking AIDS work a few years ago, made all the national news. That's the kind of business they seek out, at least they used to. Quiet, no environmental impact, increased revenue. Hell it's what we are seeking where I live now. But if your town gets freaked out over evolution, then I can imagine they wouldn't want them new-fangled scientists with their crazy ideas corrupting their kids. And using tax dollars to do it - gasp - oh no no no.

[k j]

31. The whole deal

would have been a boon to the town, the county and the university. There were some Republicans on board, but it didn't catch on with the locals. Scared of 20 families from California... can you imagine? Brick wall meets hard place = this county.

:hide: the liberals are coming! the liberals are coming!

At least in your area sandnsea, there seems to be more good old common horse sense than stubborness, as Pro called it above.

[sandnsea]

37. Where I live now

We have upper income California retirees, so we don't get much of the stuck on stupid crowd. In Montana, when I lived there anyway, we were always in the top 5 of the country's schools and people were very proud of that. Then Mark Racicot got in the governor's seat, yes that Racicot, and it's been downhill from there. So I don't know for a fact that fundiemania hasn't taken over, I'd just be surprised because that really isn't western tradition at all. Then again, neither is Schweitzer's hickville talk, but he's playing it for all it's worth anyway.

[k j]

42. What do you think of Schweitzer? n/t

The New Yorker came in the mail yesterday and I had a chance to read the "Central Casting" article in full. I thought it was complimentary to Schweitzer, and of course, everyone talks about him as if he has the silver bullet.

[sandnsea]

19. I hear what you're saying

And it may be different in the south, but it isn't that way in the rural west at all. I read an article about that school district in Georgia and evolution, they used to rip the evolution pages out of the school book. Holy criminy, that would never happen in the west. I cannot even imagine what parents would do if their kids came home with textbooks with pages ripped out. So there may be regional differences, but I also think that all it would take is some truth telling for them to turn around. They're basing their current beliefs on what their preachers and politicians are telling them, after all. Just need a different kind of "revival".

[k j]

25. A different revival

is exactly what is needed. Well said! ;-)

I still have hope. Maybe not for this county, but there are other counties that might be further along.

[k j]

15. And oh lord,

don't ever mention abortion, period.
God, Guns and Gays. It worked here.

[sandnsea]

39. In my email

Here, this is the kind of thing I was talking about, just in my Feminist News email. Most rural people don't realize that they may have doctors who don't even know how to do an abortion and some day their wife or sister or mother may need a medically necessary abortion and the doctors will all stand around and look at each other. This is just as true of doctors as the rest, they aren't required to learn how to do an abortion and many don't because it's one less course to take.

May 15 2006
Half of Health Professionals Receive No Training in Abortion Care
A recent study of advanced practice clinician (APC) training programs, which train nurse practitioners, physician assistants and certified nurse-midwives, found that nearly half of such programs fail to offer training in abortion procedures, options counseling, or post-abortion care

http://www.feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=9664

And it's actually worse because the methods used in complicated cases aren't always written up in medical journals because the doctors involved don't want to be labelled as abortionists. It's been a sort of handed-down practice. So there's a whole treatment protocol being lost as these older doctors die.

[k j]

41. I know

sandnsea, I'm not one to give up, stuborn and all that, but I don't know what it will take to change this county. The population keeps decreasing, and everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off about it, but despite some "downtown beautifcation" and the lost opportunity to bring a biotech firm here, nothing is changing.

There is a slight (probably 1%) chance we will stay here, but we're both hoping to move on. I often feel like our time here was a waste, because the wall against knowledge is still as tall and hard as it was when we got here.

I don't think all rural areas are like this, for example, where you live.

[k j]

17. Claire McCaskill

is a dynamo. She is Missouri's Great Blue Hope.
(And pretty much our only blue hope, except for the next generation of Carnahans.)

[JohnKleeb]

18. I am hoping she does well

I think she could beat Talent. She nearly beat Blunt in 2004 I know.

[k j]

21. Came SO close

to beating Blunt. I'm thrilled to bits she's running against Talent. She is well respected here, even among Republicans I've talked to... I hope they cross over and give her their vote.

[JohnKleeb]

22. Hope so

Missouri needs Democrats in the senate again, their most famous senator and president Harry Truman is one of my favorites.

[k j]

24. We've got to turn this state blue

and from the bottom up. Tired hard to convince a judge (and/or his wife) to run for State Rep. There were four of us who would have worked the campaign 24/7 for nothing, and that didn't take into account what the local party would do. They said no. :-(
So it's up to Claire and the Carnahans for now. We'll have to go top down.

[JohnKleeb]

26. We're trying to do the same here too

It's going to be a challenge but I think we got the right stuff with Governor Kaine.

[k j]

27. How does Virginia look these days?

Red, Blue or Purple? As in actual designations in office?

(Missouri is top to bottom to sideways Red and I think it's backfiring on the Republicans)

[JohnKleeb]

29. I'd say Purple in state elections and Red but leaning Purple in Nat'l elec

We've elected Democrats for the last two elections and the state senate has been going Democratic in elections too.

[k j]

32. Is it just me

or do you sense a tidal wave (of blue) by the time the 08 election rolls around?
I don't know about 06, maybe some change, maybe not enough momention yet, but by 08? Certainly there has to be a groundswell by then.

[JohnKleeb]

33. It's possible

We're at the right moment to see a realignment of how people vote.

[k j]

34. Hope so

Always thought of Bush as an Eddie Haskell sort. Couldn't wrap my head around him getting the vote from his own boomer generation, he was such a no-good bum for the bulk of his life, why and how and who could respect him?

But, for whatever reason(s) he made some feel safe and comfortable.

I think now maybe now a few Bush voter's inner-adults are waking up and they're saying, "For god's sake Harriet, we let this kid have the keys to the car?!?"

JohnKleeb, I like the word "realignment" and hope this is the right moment for a lot of realignment. :-)

[JohnKleeb]

35. I don't think we'll know the impact of the election until later

I wrote a piece last month on the ten most important elections and some of them like the 1936 election's long term impact wasn't seen until later but others like the election that made Abe Lincoln president showed their impact immediately.

[k j]

36. Very much interested

in reading your piece. Can you link it here? Or send via DU's email?
I get up very early in the mornings and so crash early, so will sign off now in the hope that you have a link to your piece.

Trends and patterns are fascinating, much more so when we're living them, I think. And history does have blueprints that we can learn from.

Thanks in advance!

[JohnKleeb]

38. Yeah gimme a second I'll post it here

[k j]

40. I see you posted, will go read, thanks! n/t