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From the Congressional report, Kerry's explanation on his votes on the PA

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 08:58 AM
Original message
From the Congressional report, Kerry's explanation on his votes on the PA
I think he really thought it was a step in the right direction (improving what was existing before).

I disagree with him and think it is a bad political move, but I am sure he is sincere. (Always the problem between a pragmatic approach to fix what exists and an opposition approach - Democrats will have to chose once and for all whether they want to be an opposition party or not).

Why I believe it is the wrong approach: There is no way to distinguish those who voted this version because it is the most liberal they can accept (like Sessions, Santorum, and Co) and those for which it is the least liberal they can accept (like Kerry, Kennedy, or Boxer). So , in a way, the Republicans can say : Kennedy and Kerry agrees with us that we dont need civil liberties, when it is clearly false, and it will unfortunately stand in the media.


Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, over the course of this week, the Senate has had a series of votes on the PATRIOT Act conference report as well as on a bill amending the conference report introduced by Senators Sununu, Craig, Murkowski, and Hagel.

Last December, I voted against cloture on the PATRIOT Act reauthorization conference report. I did not cast that vote because I oppose reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act--I supported the PATRIOT Act then just as I do now. I voted against cloture on the conference report because I believed that it did not adequately protect our civil rights and liberties. Supporters of the conference report believed that you had to choose between two extremes: taking a tough stand on terror and protecting our fundamental constitutional rights. I thought you could accomplish both at the same time.

On February 28, 2006, I voted against cloture on the Sununu compromise bill, S. 2271, vote No. 22, because of procedural measures taken by the majority to prevent Senator Feingold--or any other Senator--from offering amendments. Senator Feingold's four proposed amendments would have improved the Sununu compromise and addressed more of the concerns I had with the conference report. They would have, No. 1, ensured that section 215 orders to produce sensitive library, medical, and other business records would be limited to individuals who had some connection to terrorism; No. 2, ensured that judicial review of section 215 gag orders and National Security Letter, NSL, gag orders is meaningful; No. 3, sunsetted the NSL authorities after 4 years; and No. 4, required notification of sneak-and-peek search warrants within 7 days of the search rather than within 30 days. I believe that each of these amendments would have improved both the Sununu compromise bill and the conference report. Regardless of whether my colleagues agree with me on that, I believe the Senate should have been given the opportunity to vote on them.

On March 1, 2006, the Senate conducted a series of votes, both procedural and substantive on the Sununu compromise bill and the PATRIOT Act conference report. I voted to support the Sununu compromise. I also voted to proceed to the motion to reconsider the conference report, to proceed to the conference report, and to invoke cloture on the conference report because, in my view, the Sununu compromise and the conference report come as a package deal. I support the two taken together, and for that reason, I also voted for the conference report today.

I support the Sununu compromise bill because it makes some important improvements to the PATRIOT Act. First, it allows judicial review of a section 215 nondisclosure order 1 year after its receipt. Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act allows the Government to obtain business records, including library, medical, and gun records among other things. Under the conference report, recipients of these section 215 orders were subject to an automatic permanent nondisclosure order which would have prevented them from bringing any court challenge. Under the compromise, a section 215 nondisclosure order is now subject to judicial review.

Second, the conference report would have required recipients of National Security Letters, NSL, to identify their attorneys to the FBI. NSLs allow the Government to obtain, without a warrant, subscriber records and other data from telephone companies and Internet providers. The compromise removes that requirement so that recipients of NSL orders can seek legal advice without having to inform the FBI.

Third, the compromise clarifies that the Government cannot issue NSLs to libraries unless the libraries provide ``electronic communications services'' as defined by the statute. Thus, libraries functioning in their traditional roles, including providing Internet access, are not covered.

Even though this legislation does not address all of my concerns with the conference report, these compromise provisions are steps in the right direction and will be important components of the PATRIOT Act.

I am proud to support this legislative package and am pleased we have reauthorized and improved the PATRIOT Act. I believe there is still more work to be done and will work with my colleagues; such as Senator Feingold and Senator Specter, on further improvements. For example, in a perfect world the PATRIOT Act would provide for more meaningful judicial review of section 215 gag orders as well as NSL gag orders. There is no reason to have a conclusive presumption against recipients--one that can only be overcome by a showing of Government bad faith. Nor is there any reason to prohibit judicial review of those gag orders until a full year has passed. They should be immediately reviewable, and, if there are any presumptions, they should be in favor of the privacy rights being invaded rather than the Government doing the invading.

In a perfect world, the Patriot Act would require the subjects of section 215 business record disclosures to have some link to suspected terrorists. As I mentioned earlier, section 215 is expansive, and it allows the Government to obtain very sensitive, personal records. Simply requiring those records to be relevant to an authorized intelligence investigation, as the conference report does, is simply not enough. This standard will not prevent Government fishing expeditions.

And, in a perfect world, the PATRIOT Act would have required the Government to notify victims of sneak-and-peek searches--unannounced and secret entries into the homes of Americans--within 7 days as the original Senate bill did. The 30- to 60-day timeframe is simply too long. People have a right to know when the Government has been in their house, searching through their things.

Thus, I understand why some of my colleagues are disappointed with the compromise. They say that it does not go as far as the original Senate bill which was passed by unanimous consent, and they are right. But the fact is that the compromise does improve the original conference report. I believe the compromise was the product of good faith negotiations. It is not a perfect bill, but it is a step in the right direction. And I will continue to work with my colleagues so that we can create a more even balanced PATRIOT Act.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. I liked this.
I think it points to the practical approach that we suspected as well as several issues that need work. That seems to be a decent explanation to me. There are flaws in this bill and I was glad to see them spelled out. They do have to do more work to make this bill more aware of civil liberties. (I like that, I really do. It does acknowledge that this is not the end, but is what was possible, with this Rethug House and Senate, right now. It doesn't mean the work to improve it stops.)

These were submitted remarks, right? I'm glad they were in there. It helps me understand more about this confusing series of actions this week and says that the work is not finished. I satisfied with the explanation.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Same here
With the current Congress, this was likely the best they could get.

As to political ramifications, it would be a problem either way. If we get a more Democratic congress, these things can maybe fixed in 2007.

One benefit for Kerry if these issues are fixed is that he might be more able to point out that he authored (I think) all the international money laundering legislation. (which may be the only thing that worked at all in the WOT) I assume he stayed away from it last time, as claiming part of the Patriot Act (even though his part wasn't the problem) is because there were people who would only hear "Patriot Act" and scream.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Your points are well taken, diminishing civil liberties are not to be
Edited on Fri Mar-03-06 09:36 AM by wisteria
taken lightly, however, when weighed against protecting lives and keeping America secure,I think most Americans will opt for the latter. As an example, examine the responses to the wiretapping issue. Many people seem to think some surveillance is necessary in this day and age and don't see themselves as being affected or put out by the whole issue. I can't count the times I have heard the statement, this doesn't bother me, I have nothing to hide. please see links below,

Americans overwhelmingly support aggressive government pursuit of terrorist threats, even if it may infringe on personal privacy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/10/AR2006011001192.html

Americans are willing to tolerate eavesdropping without warrants to fight terrorism,

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/27/politics/27poll.html?ex=1296018000&en=d6f80d348c3ed000&ei=5088

All this does not mean that I support Bush's actions of ignoring the law and deciding that he has the right to do wiretapping or anything else without checking with Congress first and abiding by the laws of land. That is just plain wrong. I do however, think that with frequent dialog and oversight, many of our rights as citizens can still be protected and we can remain a safe and secure nation. And this is MHO.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It is a tradeoff that has to be negotiated carefully.
There are a number of issues on the plate that will deal, again with safeguarding constitutional liberties. The NSA wiretapping issue has not gone away, it is still there in Congress, despite the best efforts of the Rethugs to make it go away. There are other issues, such as permitting torture and so forth that have not gone away.

This isn't the end, just the passage of this one bill. I really think this is going to be revisited again and again. The Dems have a real opening with the ports issue to delve into the real meaning of national security and what it means. I have some hope that the frame that security means more than just being wiretapped by the government or having the government follow you around the internet and so forth gets taken up.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. You are right, the Democrats have a real opportunity to frame
this issue correctly and present it to the American people. This could actually start turning the issue of security into a Democratic strong point. It has to be handled very carefully though, and right now I am not at all thrilled at who is at the forefront on the ports issue. This could turn out looking like a political stunt and turn off Americans instead of keeping them on our side. IMO, the Clinton's need to shut up now along with Schumer and we need to find another spokesperson. I am not referring to John Kerry here, but someone who can't be accused of personally gaining something from this issue. That said, I have been wondering why Kerry has had very little to say on this topic other than referring to possible conflicts of interest in the deal. is it possible they-Reid, has asked him to take a lower profile right now?
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jenndar Donating Member (911 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Do you listen to Ed Schultz?
HRC and Barbara Boxer were on a couple of days ago, both talking about port security. The contrast was interesting.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Nol, I missed it. Can you give me a some info on what was said?
Is there a transcript?
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. delete- dup
Edited on Fri Mar-03-06 11:14 PM by wisteria
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Kerry is running with what he knows best: GOOD governance issues.
Edited on Fri Mar-03-06 01:48 PM by Mass
And this is the major issue in the UAE deal. Like Iraq, like Katrina, this is a butchered deal that was done in the back rooms without taking all the information and precautions necessary". In fact, we cannot say if it is a good or a bad deal because once again, it was poorly dealt with (it could be the best deal for this country and we still would not be able to tell).

The port security issue needs to be taken globally (not limited to the UAE deal) and dealt as such. It will not be finished if the UAE deal disappears tomorrow.

Actually, Schumer could be a good speaker because he has been involved in these issues for years and knows what he is talking about, but he needs to back up from the "Arabs are evil" talks and begin to talk about how we cannot outsource this issue, be it to the UK.

I don't think Reid has to do with the fact that Kerry is silent, for once. I think it is more the fact that Kerry is dealing with the issues of "good governance and cronyism" and letting the other issue for people who are more involved with that in their day to day business. Good governance is not a small issue. It is a PRIMORDIAL ISSUE: we have a government that screws everything it touches. Why are we not running with this for 06 (and 08 for Kerry). It is a recurrent issue and somebody needs to point to that. He has been taking this role as he has been since the 1970s with each Republican administration.

(If anything, his advisers have been stupid to ignore this aspect in 2004 - What do you want in a president: somebody who will govern well. Bush is bad at governing).
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I wasn't totally aware of Schmer's background. I do agree that he
should begin to approach this issue using the alternative angle you provide- it just makes sense. As for this administration incompetence, I agree we need to capitalize on this a lot more. It is very true that Bush has gotten very little correct since he has been in office. Why not address his failures and use them to our advantage, they are certainly more devastating that a vote for then a vote against something or other.
You will get no argument from me on our party promoting Kerry in 2008. This forthcoming election should be based on the premise of the best qualified man (or women) for the job. It should not be a popularity contest. Or about who comes from a Red state and who can raise the most money.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Also passing this DIDN'T diminish civil rights,
It returns some rights the original bill impacted. It is worse than pre-Patriot Act, but better than where we've been since late 2001.
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. Gets down to difference between Senator and President
We've seen many times where Kerry bashers oppose Kerry for various votes, but these are typically poor ways to decide upon a Presidential candidate.

We can agree or disagree with Kerry on how he voted on the Patriot Act, IWR, etc. The real issue in supporting him for President is not how he voted on these but what his actions with regards to civil liberties, national security, and war would be if he was President. If Kerry was President we would not have this Patriot Acgt (and he never would have gone to war as Bush did).
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-03-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. The last point says it all.
It's a work in progress that is heading in the right direction. It's not set in stone.
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