Posting this here so as not be be involved in a debate elsewhere!

[saracat]

Just got back from my state convention and it appears that there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the DNC Chair. From the perspective of our DNC people he isn't doing as promised. The report is that many are "trying" to give him a chance, but as I have previously stated, he doesn't appear"liberal" enough for some,(myself included) . I don't think a lot of the pro-life comments played well on the national DNC level. It also appears the much ballyhooed organization skills have yet to materialize, as well as the promises to take input from everyone. The Chair has yet to even meet with the vice chairs. And many of the grandiose plans for networking and distributing influence are allegedly faltering, much to the distress of many DNC members who supported him for chair.
An interesting fact is that my state Arizona, has been picked to host the fall national convention so depending on the state of things in Sept., I will at least have the opportunity to ask the Chair what is going on.

[sandnsea]

1. In my dinky town

I just got the ballot for an upcoming election. After my last local Dem meeting, one would have thought the election was covered, what with all the "build the grassroots" talk going on. I was horrified to discover NOT ONE of the local school board seats is being challenged. And I know several people on that ballot are as right wing as they come. I'm not blaming Dean for that at all, we are just a speck in the scheme of things and he can't do everything. But this grow the party from the ground up doesn't seem to be taking hold here either.

[saracat]

3. Interesting. There was a whole discussion on that. It appears this is NOT

what it was cracked up to be! I wonder what the next step is>

[Name removed]

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[LittleClarkie]

36. It's just so early

What's it been, 4 months?

I was just thinking a moment ago in terms of sports. You hire a coach, you let him build the team, and then after a while you expect to see results. But usually the guy gets about a year. I don't expect Dean to be the Miracle Grow of DNC Chairman. I'll give him time. Hopefully by 2006 and esp. 2008 we will see. But I hope there aren't too many in the party working against him, as that wouldn't give him a fair trial either, and might be a self-fulfilling prophesy.

[XanaDUer]

2. He is not liberal.

I can understand your not wanting to post this outside this forum. You will be, as I was, bar-be-cued alive.

[saracat]

4. As have I . I was careful not to even use names as It would be too

attention getting. I , too have pointed out the conservative background and I been called everything you could imagine! Odd, they kept calling the Kerry people conservative. He is proving himself, as if he should have had too, onnce again to be the "true" liberal!:) But I still have hopes this can be turned around. Our state chair is wonderful and really is pushing the party in the right dorection. He seems to "get' it and fortunately ,he is a millionaire so they are listening. It is really only because of his money that our state has gotten any attention.

[TayTay]

5. Was AZ one of the states that went for Dean early in the process?

My State Con is two weeks away, but I haven't seen any differences yet. I thought Gov Dean was touring the country, especially Red States to try and fire up the grassroots. Wasn't grassroots building the cause for which John Kerry gave a cool million to the DNC? Hmmmm.

Gov. Dean will be addressing my Con in May. I will listen carefully to what he has to say and then listen to the local chairs and see if actions match words. (I got an e-mail from Sen. Kerry before the caucuses in Feb in MA. He asked folks to go out and run for local races and to stand as delegates to the MA Con. I needed the reminder, showed up the caucus and am now a voting member. I wonder if anyone else did the same.)

My headline refers to whole state delegations that wanted Dean for DNC Chair. This has nothing to do with last year's primaries.

[saracat]

6. My impression was they were supporting him but only some of our reps

declared. Most were backing him but only two endorsed him. There was a rumour that our Governor wasn't committed to Dean. She never endorsed anyone to my knowledge. I talked to some people I know on her staff and she ended up neutral.But she was the reason some gave for not committing.I guess you could say we were mixed but Dean had tremendous support.

[sandnsea]

27. What issues are being pushed?

That would be helpful to know, for one thing. What issues seem to have the most agreement, which the most division. What about immigration, how is that debate turning. And religion, is it a hotter topic with so many hispanic Catholics in AZ??

What we did is put together 5 action groups. Environment, health care, education, funding government, and candidate grooming. I think that's right. They do their own work, and hopefully keep on top of issues, and then report back. But we don't have the block by block organization that Bradley talked about, so we still don't have something in place to be let loose on a moment's notice. And we still have way too much underlying tension, even in a dinky little town.

[saracat]

28. Immigration isn't quite as hot as they would have you believe. Many think

while the Minutemen are jackasses, we DO have to do something about our borders.Religion isn't that big an issue. Mant think it is being made an issue and has NO place in our platform or politics. Reproductive Rights is hot! And so is being more agressive in the Dem view! There is also some support for the Lakoff reframing stuff. Interestingly that support is evenly split between those who were formaly "really" liberal and the moderates. The Kerry Dems seem to have joined forces with the more liberal Deaniacs who are disappointed in their former leader. Those longtime DLCer's are firmly approving of Dean.Politics makes strage bedfellow's indeed!
We are doing a lot of emphasis on candidate hunting and "grooming" but with no DNC support. However they do say they will be sending a panel down to judge if we are "worthy" of a $100,000 in DNC support!
The "tension" that you are experiencing is nationwide according to our Reps. There seem to be three positions and none are melding and business is not being tended to. Sigh.

[Name removed]

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[JI7]

9. not really

because i know some of the attacks she would get for it. and i think she just wants to talk about it rather than people attack her personally as happened in some of the threads where she was critical.

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[JI7]

12. so start your own thread on it in another forum

saracat has a right to say what she wants on here. she HAS expressed her disagreements in the other forums and has been personally attacked by some over it. she has a right to come here and talk to us about what she wants. she didn't say anything which violates the rules. Dean is a public figure and will get criticism. and it's not as if she is attacking him in horrible ways.

and there were Dean supporters who bashed Kerry and set up websites which mostly bashed Kerry when he started winning the Primary.

there are many boards out there which allow and seem to enjoy attacks on Democrats out there and those boards claim to be liberal/democratic.

[Name removed]

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[JI7]

15. nobody was "attacking" anyone

there were people who attacked saracat personally in the other forums though because she said she disagreed .

she is discussing the party and disagreements, she isn't bashing anyone.

[Name removed]

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[JI7]

17. i didn't see that either as she said she will try to take it up with the

Chair himself if she gets the chance. her entire post was about disappointment and disagreement with how things are going. but she never advocated against anyone.

she has done the same things with others including Kerry when she disagreed with them.

[WildEyedLiberal]

19. There are Dean supporters

Who proudly refused to be pro-Kerry - merely anti-Bush- in the general election?

What's your point?

This is the Kerry supporters forum, not the bickering forum. If you can't respect the rules, perhaps you should post in a different forum.

[Name removed]

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[WildEyedLiberal]

18. I think most Kerry folks

Agree that she posted it here to avoid the haranguing of people like you.

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[JI7]

13. and Saracat supported Dean for Chair

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. Saracat's opinions are as valid as yours

Do you troll in here looking for stuff to stir up? I certainly wouldn't think of bothering you in your DFA sanctuary. She has a right to express disagreement with how things are going. It doesn't "hurt the party." Please stop arguing this point in our forum or someone will probably alert on you.

[Name removed]

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[Moderator]

25. Unlocking

DU Moderator

[saracat]

26. Thank you

[WildEyedLiberal]

29. Glad to see this thread back up!

What you post is interesting. Truly, I haven't seen much follow through with the DNC's grandiose plans either. Honestly, I have a hard time believing that the chair could be responsible for igniting the grassroots, anyway... isn't the very definition of "grassroots" bottom-up, as opposed to top-down?

[saracat]

30. I think the idea was to "ignite ' the grass roots by both inspiring them

and by funding them. The complaint "seem' to be that neither of those things is being done. They say that Dean has promised to meet with everyone, especially the assistant chairs and he hasn't met with anyone. They say he isn't fulfilling his pledge to be open to input.
I am not saying this is true. I am merely reporting what some of the DNC people are saying. The most disappointed of all are those that supported Dean both in the primary and for Chair. Our DFA chapter is really upset with Dean. The abortion remarks alone caused quite a dust up.Many folks I know are of the opinion that we need to be drawing broader strokes to define ourselves and not blurring the lines. I has an interesting chat with our state chair in which we discussed the many Republicans who are turning from Bush and begging us to take a stand. I even had one who asked us "why we didn't have any balls" ! They said they need a choice and someone to give it to them!The Chair said he had heard the same. Both of us are unlikely to be mistaken! Personally, I think Kerry offered them a choice, but they felt his message was blurred. I think the DLC didn't let Kerry go far enough, but that is JMHO.
I think Dean has got to stop the "waffling "and appeasing of the right.That is not what most expected when they supported him.

[TayTay]

31. This is the 'fight for the soul of the Dem Party'

This fight to find the backbone and fighting spirit of the Dems is what the whole 'soul-searching' after the election was about. There are powerful and monied interests that do NOT want the Dems to go left. (Going left in the sense of shaking off corporate money and influence and becoming a grassroots driven 'Party of the People' again.) These monied interests have deep tentacles inside the Dem Party. It's not just the somewhat phony 'DLC vs. non-DLC' fight. It's much murkier than that.

There were many articles after the 2004 election that posited that the reason the Dems lost was because they went too far left and that Kerry was perceived as too liberal. (I emphatically don't buy this. At all.) The critics argued that the Dems needed to be more centrist and play ball with the Rethugs in order to avoid being marginalized even more than they are now. (* thinks this is happening and is going with that war line in his speeches on Social Security. He has said that the Dems need to do what he wants or there will be repercussions at the polls. I disagree.)

There is the Thomas Frank side as well (aside from his Kerry criticisms, which aren't really Kerry criticisms anyway, at least IMHO) The Frank side is unbelievably difficult to implement. It requires big labor imput to replace the big money from corporations. Labor is in decline. Laws supporting labor are being deleted from the books. While I think this is the way to go, it is going to need a tough multi-year plan to get going.

It is not that easy to let go of power and all the sweetness that the powerful interests bring to a candidate and embrace the grassroots. It is also not that easy to turn a political party around. I will give Gov. Dean a little more time and try to listen and see if I can get any good tea leaves as to where the problem lies. Is it with Dean? Is he capable of doing the grassroots work and reaching the folks he needs to reach. (I think so. I find him effective.) Is it with the institutional opposition to what he is doing from entrenched interests in Congress who like things the way they are? What's it going to take to return the Dem Party to the people?

[Dr Ron]

32. Dean a victim of his primary strategy

Dean campaigned as from the far left, and now must pay the price. Indpendents think of him as a far left liberal and are less likely to support him, while people on the left gradually realize he is not one of them.

Dean might have needed this strategy to get notice in the primary battle, but in the long run he would have likely had more success as the middle of the road politician he really is.

I think it might be premature to evaluate his performance as DNC chair. The post is really one of organization rather than ideology. The real question will be whether Democrats are better organized in time for the 2006 elections.

[LittleClarkie]

33. What if all the organization skills were with Trippi

Oye. I hope not. I'm still giving him a chance. It's still early. And I think bopping around the South is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Dr Ron]

34. I fear much was from Trippi

Especially the use of the intenet.

I figure the decisions been made. He was a competent Governor and the post is largely administrative. Despite opposing him in the primaries, Dean has also made many good points (often forgotten with all the coverage of his gaffes). I'm just watching and hoping for the best.

[LittleClarkie]

35. I fear that some were being unrealistic in their expectations

of what he was and was not going to be able to do.

And for me, he is still on his honeymoon.

I worry about some of his comments lately. But hey, that's Dean for ya. It's an indication of why he didn't make it as Prez material. Even so, it's sort of red meat for the base.