Just a thought. What if the Ohio investigation proves

[saracat]

fraud? Will that make it a slam dunk for Kerry in 08? Forget the nay sayers on this board who scream he betrayed us, what about the general public? I think it would turn the tide in his favor.

[politicasista]

1. Good question

[ginnyinWI]

2. I think it will be almost essential

If he wants to run again, he needs to show the general population that he is not, in fact, a loser. Once that is established, he can spend the next few years showing the leadership position that he is capable of and deserves to have--and then it will feel very natural for Dems and disillusioned moderate repubs to get behind him.

He'd be miles ahead of any other Dems. If he can't or doesn't establish that he did clearly win, then the other side will constantly say, why vote for a guy who couldn't win last time, etc.

The other thing we really could use are some nice Dem wins in 2006--to set the stage for a Dem WH comeback. Go Dean and the DNC!

[karynnj]

3. Not sure if it's necessary, but it would clearly make for a better

argument for trying again. I hope if the "official" investigations don't show a win and if the election reforms really go through, that someone do an analysis of the votes lost to things being a mess in Ohio.

- It should be possible to get a rough estimate of votes lost due to long lines. (Obviously not useful legally, but if you are looking for the likely result in the future where extreme long lines aren't a problem these need to be estimated.)

-There were reports of large numbers of inner city Hispanic voters, with no in language help, possibly feeding their punch cards in wrong. This made them invalid when put in properly for the count. if true votes lost here could be estimated.

But it may come down to what the issues are and who is best suited to dealing with them and who polls best again the likely Republican candidates. I wonder if Kerry's recent move to encourage political activism is not only a response to dealing with how to win on issues if you don't hold the power, but the best way to re-define himself -as himself! (his career fits someone who does what right because its right much better than the Republican flip-flop) If things get blacker, won't more people want the white knight? Which other candidate can play that role?

(flip/flop and the swiftboat stuff was about all they had other than the metrosexual stuff - and Kerry sounds like he is going to do something on the swiftboat thing. Kerry just existing should dispel the metrosexual nonsense. (My husband was surprised that Kerry didn't make more use of pictures or better yet video of him playing hockey with the retired Bruins - he was impressed that Kerry could skate that well and got a goal.)

[ginnyinWI]

4. I think he definitely wants to remain high-profile

He wants to remain out there where people can see that he's doing good things (besides that he wants to do them anyway). I think he hates everything Bush is doing and trying to do to this country, and wants to be a drag on the far-right as much as possible, to slow them down. Everything dovetails together-- being a good senator, a loyal Dem, taking Bush down, and showing people he's one of the good guys.

I know he's up to running again, and would run an even better campaign than before. I do worry about a few things: the stigma of being a losing candidate, and whether the voting machines would again take away his votes. We know it would have to be a landslide in order for them not to be able to steal them another time; could he get that many votes in a divided country? And what would the media do to him in a second run? Would they be kinder or harsher? And lastly, will Dean and everyone be able to find a unified voice to let people know what Democrats in the 21st century stand for?

[politicasista]

5. I sometimes wonder about that too

Especially after all the unfair abuse he and Momma T took from the media.:shrug:

[karynnj]

6. Although I doubt they could be worse

I don't think Kerry ever really had a lot of help from the press last time either to get the nomination or to win the election. At this time, a lot of the press is talking up Hillary.

As a biased observor, I thought that Kerry was better on the SS panel, but that she was quite good. None of the others mentioned seem close.

[ginnyinWI]

7. Hillary and the press

I don't know, something smells fishy to me. It's like the repubs and media want Hillary to be the nominee, but probably for different reasons. The media loves the sensationalism of it, and the repubs think she'd be easy to defeat. Seems I've heard a few too many surprisingly positive comments about her lately. Hmmmm...

[politicasista]

8. Seem like people want the General or Hillary

Interesting.

[karynnj]

9. Only on DU, do people want the General

In the polls, he's at about 1% (Pollingreport.com)

[politicasista]

10. That's interesting too.

:shrug:

[JohnKleeb]

11. It is very

I never saw the big appeal in Clark, its not like hes like Kerry or some governor and he has accomplishments to point to. :shrug: youre talking to the guy who admits he doesnt mind insiders that said.

[TayTay]

12. If I were Hillary, I would not like this

The mainstream media loves, loves to build someone up with all kinds of vague praise and false adulation. Their second favorite thing is to tear that person down. If I were Hillary, I would distance myself from this as fast as possible. (Of course, from my perspective, go ahead, get the build-up. But the ride down is a killer, let me tell ya.)

Kerry is due for a rebuild, according to the mainstream press rules, in the near future. The press also loves a comback. It's all in the timing. (Odd to say, because for those of us here, JK never went away. But there have been hints of a press comeback.)

[ginnyinWI]

13. interesting

The press is funny--build up, tear down. I guess to have some point of conflict or contrast is what they are aiming for. Yeah, JK was always visible to us, but to Mr. and Mrs. Average the election is already ancient history. To me,personally, it's still very near--I'm still feeling the pain.

My 22 year old: "Mom, are you still thinking about that stuff?"

Haha-- but I notice that her stickers are still on her car: "Dean" and "Kerry/Edwards".

[Firespirit]

14. FWIW,

Not everyone in their 20's shares that opinion. This 21-year-old has been in major obsessive mode since grand theft. I'm a software developer and I've been taught good security measures, in fact published a conference paper on server protection. (Not to brag, just to establish my credentials, such as they are.) I'd followed the "BBV" issue since 2001 and done nothing, and so I feel partly responsible for what probably happened to Kerry. So I made a resolution to not sit on my butt again.

Just today I finished (yay, at last!!! though it's a week later than I'd hoped :() my prototypes for secure election equipment. Basically it provides virtually unhackable protection of election data, all the way from the voting booth level to the county tabulator. It *is* possible to have a secure DRE machine, I've discovered. I'm going to get this stuff to Kerry's people, and possibly others, ASAP. I really think I've got something good here and it will make me sick if the ideas in my documents aren't put into practice by 2008 at the *latest*.

I know you're very concerned about it being stolen again. So am I. And if it's any comfort to you, I'm going to be working my rear off between now and then to prevent that from happening. :hug:

[ginnyinWI]

15. and thank you so much for that!

We do appreciate it, and yeah I know not all are like my daughter, who only gets interested when it's time to vote for president. It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of who is a political junkie or not! It can be a fun or an excruciating hobby!

My biggest wish for "next time" is to get the fraud out! :toast:

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. Hahahaha "fun or excruciating"

Oh how true that is.

[Withywindle]

17. Often both at once!

I definitely think fraud being proven would help Kerry's "case" in '08, no doubt. (And likely Gore's as well should he choose to run but it sounds like he's not going to).

I just love him a little more every day for fighting so hard, for not slinking away, for kicking about as much ass in the Senate as anyone can these days. (And it makes me really want to throttle those vicious little punks allegedly on "our" side who are determined to jump through all sorts of ridiculous mental hoops to avoid giving him any credit at all. "NOT A FIGHTER" MY SCRAWNY RED-DIAPER-BABY SAMBA-DANCING HILLBILLY ASS!!:mad:)


But on a related question, why is GDP All '08 All the Time tonight? Disruption? Distraction? We got a loooooooong field to fight across before we get in sight of that particular hill.