Agnostic or Atheist?

[Neoma]

i tread between the two.

On one hand, I've decided that i simply don't care about there being a god.

On the other, i see that No one can know if there is a god or not.

I find that faith is belief that does not rely on logical proof or material evidence, the idea that the bible tells us about god defeats the faith of God in the bible. In other words; If something explains to us the unexplainable, then it cannot be true.

*sigh*
If i go as a Agnostic, they accuse me of not decideing...what ever that means.
If i go as a Atheist, they accuse me of not believing in any gods...then suddenly accuse me as anti-theists and start argueing with me automaticly.

Isn't It Annoying?

:mad:

I swear, i try to learn biblical shit just to protect myself.
WHY do i even have to?!

Maybe i should just label myself as "not religious" ....gah, i doubt that would work.

[lazarus]

1. A couple of things

First, who cares what they think?

Second, agnostic and atheist aren't competing positions. Theist and atheist are competing positions. Agnostic is simply a qualifier one would attach to the position.

Do you believe in a god?

Yes: Theist
No: Atheist

Do you believe we can know one way or the other, or do you believe you have knowledge one way or the other?

Yes: Gnostic
No: Agnostic

"Agnostic" has nothing to do with whether you believe in god or not.

Being ashamed of, or afraid of, the term 'atheist' is similar to being afraid of being labelled a 'liberal'. I'm proud to be both, and will defend both positions.

[Neoma]

2. Atheist then..

with a slant of agnostic in me.

yay! :party:


I guess i don't care what they think, i just don't want them to try and freaking convert me...etc :scared:

[lazarus]

3. Welcome to the club!

Although I am usually just amused when someone tries to convert me. :silly:

[Neoma]

4. How you manage that?

[lazarus]

5. I've had conversion attempts

by virtually everyone. Particularly the JWs and Mormons.

Eventually you see the patterns they use. They're essentially salesmen. If you can avoid being sold a bad car (particularly when you're not planning to buy one anyway), you can have all sorts of fun.

Just read the Bible and find some fun stuff to play with. Lots in there.

[Neoma]

6. yeah...which version of the bible?

gah..

[lazarus]

7. Here's a good one to get started

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Just surf around there, it's fun.

[Neoma]

8. Thanks

Does This count to?
http://www.thebricktestament.com/

[progressoid]

12. Funny story...

I was looking for a Bricktestament book for an xmas present at our local Barnes and Noble. The employee looked it up in their database and viola, yes, they had two...in the CHILDRENS section!

I laughed and she gave me a quizical look. I just ignored her and thought about some fundy buying this for a beloved niece or nephew not knowing that the true Reverend Brenden Powell Smith.

http://www.thereverend.com

[YankeyMCC]

9. "not religious"

seems a fair label and further than that it isn't much of anyone else's business.

It sounds like agnostic might be the best fit for you but the important thing is what you feel comfortable with not what "they" think.

These are just labels, I generally use atheist for myself these days, but the problem is with us "free-thinkers" (another label I guess) is that our world views don't often fit nicely into any of these labels.

So use whatever you're most comfortable with and works best in your daily life.

[Modem Butterfly]

10. God is irrelevant

If there is such a being as God, I have a difficult time believing it gives two shits about Modem. It's probably got other things on its mind, like keeping the universe spinning. Whether there's a god or not, the end result is the same: I have to live my life in a day-to-day manner that is comfortable and pleasing to me at the end of the day. When all is said and done, I have to look at the woman in the mirror and explain to her the choices I've made and why. I live my life so I am not ashamed or embarassed for myself later on.

[immoderate]

11. Laz pretty much nailed it.

As far a word definitions go, agnostic refers to the depth of knowledge. A gnostic has absolute knowledge of his/her position. If you are a gnostic theist you have direct knowledge of god. If you are a gnostic atheist you have absolute knowledge that there is no god, a difficult position to defend.

(Usually there is an insertion here of "you can't prove a negative," which is self contradictory. E.g. it is itself a negative so if true, it can't be proven.)

In a sense everybody is agnostic, otherwise there would be no need for faith. For myself, I have not come across any description of god that makes sense to me. Stunster kindly provides an example. I wonder if that's the simplest way to express that concept. Otherwise, I'd hate to think that understanding god requires an aspirin.

So, I can describe myself as atheist, agnostic and Jewish. The latter being a tribal identity that manifests itself culturally in such things as a kind of sense of humor, outlook, and a good sour pickle. And knowing that the next time they round up the Jews, they're not going to take the other labels into consideration.

--IMM

[trotsky]

13. You don't have to "know" there is no god to be an atheist.

You just look at the current evidence and decide, "nope, insufficient."

Same as you would do for any explanation, really.

[Neoma]

14. ah okay.

[trotsky]

15. Great sigline, by the way.

:)

[Neoma]

16. :)

[Neoma]

17. i'm thinking of switching the animation with this one actually:

*shrug*

[Modem Butterfly]

19. Hi-larious, both of them

[A HERETIC I AM]

18. Consider this;

When people ask me "You don't believe in god?" I reply with something to the effect "Belief has nothing to do with it. I KNOW gods are mythical constructs. The god of Abraham is no less mythical than the gods of the Roman and Greek pantheons" I am ATHEIST, to wit: I have no gods. I am Without god(s). It is, in my mind, a perfectly noble and justifiable philosophical position. I "Believe" in Mankind and its capacity for Art and music, culture and progress. I believe that science and reason will cure the worlds ills, NOT wishing some grand, transcendent super Deity will somehow make things all better just cause we wish him to make it so.

The best definition for God i have read is basically that God represents to the individual all of the highest ideals and attributes a person can attain. To have perfect knowledge of all things, to be universally good (although the xtian god fails this test miserably) and universally benevolent.

I reject the concept of a thinking, calculative, manipulative, vengeful, transcendent super Deity that has created all the heavens and the earth as childish hogwash, no more worth buying into than the tooth fairy or Santa Claus.

BTW, there is more historical basis for the myth of Santa than there is for the existence of Christ. St. Nicholas was a real person that attended the Council of Nicea.

[wiggs]

20. An alternative: "deeply religious non-believer"

Saw the Einstein show in Los Angeles last weekend...Einstein described himself as a "deeply religious non-believer".....somehow conveyed his awe and reverence for the universe and life without bringing in the supernatural. Struck a cord with me.

[Rhiannon12866]

21. Wow! I will have to look further into this

It's a great point, since something is, obviously, going on, though I don't understand it, religious or not. This strikes a chord with me, as well. Einstein must have known something.:shrug:

[Jamastiene]

22. I guess agnostic.

For me, it alternates between agnostic, atheist, skeptic. I think. I have, at times, had to take on 15 to 20 people or more at one time right by my lonesome just because I pointed out the flaws I see with a religion based argument. With the way I feel right now, I wish there was a contract that I could sign with some devil so I can have what I want out of life. "True" Satanists will say there is no such thing. Christians will say there is. I can't seem to find the damn dotted like. If I could, I'd be licking the tip of my pen in a heartbeat at this point. I guess that leaves me somewhere between undecided and just royally pissed off at society for rewarding the behaviour of proselytizing. And to think, those are the same people who wonder where the "gang" mentality comes from. Uhm, mirror anyone?

[eek MD]

23. The way i think of it.....

I look at it this way.....

If the god that these people believe in is really all-loving, he's not going to send good people to "hell" (not saying i actually believe in all of this nonsense)simply for not worshipping at his feet. As long as you try to generally be a decent human being, and don't go out of your way to screw others over, you should be fine even if they're right about him existing.

I don't feel i have to label myself at all. It's not as if there's well defined lines in religion, like there is with states and countries. If someone asks what my religion is, i tell them religion just isn't important to me. (Unless i feel like really messing with them, and then i tell them that i'm the messiah)/kidding

If you feel you need to label yourself as an athiest, or an agnostic, flip a coin.....in my opinion you can be both... :)

[fshrink]

24. Why would you need a label?

Just answer the zombies' questions as they come and for what they are.

[FM Arouet666]

25. Atheist with out a doubt

"a" without "theist" a belief in a god. I am without a belief in a god. Some will say "how can you know that a god does not exist? I don't, but I perceive the world based on science, not fantasy, religion, or ignorance. Lacking a belief in the god concept does not connote an active belief that a god could not exist. I am open to many ideas. Scientifically support your supposition that a "god" exists, and I will assess the argument in a rational manner.