breakthrough on my real estate issue -- do you pick up

[northernlights]

any insight on how to move forward? Does anybody pick up anything?

Ok, to summarize the dilemma, when I bought my property it was listed as double the acreage it actually contains, due to mistakes made by the town clerk 20 years ago when he recorded the survey of surrounding property. Acreage is not covered by title insurance. The deed specifies stone wall boundaries; not acreage. I have comps from the time period that provide insight as to the financial loss to me, etc. Suing city hall is almost always a losing proposition -- especially with their "empty pockets" in these hard times. I've talked to the realtor involved who was stunned -- all info was provided to him by the sellers. Per discussion with lawyers, cost to sue if they don't settle would be 2 years and half the loss...assuming I even won.

Now I've located the elderly sellers who, it turns out, are not deceased. As I recall, the husband is a retired minister. 6+ months after the deal was done, I got a package from his wife - she nicely sent me all the warranty and maintenance info on appliances that had been inadvertently packed by the movers. I'd always meant to send her a thank you note, but was totally wrapped up in my personal nightmare and injuries. Once things settled down, I discovered I'd lost the envelope she sent the package in, so had no return address. I looked for them in Arizona and New Mexico, but didn't find them. Turns out the phone company has his middle initial wrong in the white pages, but I found them through a google-provided link and have confirmed it is them.

And the bottom line is:
1. they don't appear to have any living relatives, so there doesn't appear to be anybody in particular to inherit
2. they own their home outright -- it's worth more than double what I lost when I bought their property. No liens appear in the county clerk unofficial online records.
3. the amount that they would have overpaid for their property when *they* were deceived, given how long *they* lived there, was very likely a tiny fraction of the amount I overpaid.

So do I contact them to let them know what happened? They are elderly; I don't want to disturb their last years. But, most likely inadvertently and due to a town clerk's mistake 20+ years ago, they mispresentend their property and I paid them a lot more money than it was worth. And although they, too, overpaid, they probably gained 10-fold over their own original overpayment.

And if I do contact them, how do I contact them? Phone? Mail? What do I say? Does anybody pick up anything?

[Why Syzygy]

1. I was surprised

to read that you had blown off the opportunity to sue (would it be the city?). Two years is nothing. But, $20 K to me is a lot of money. One scenario that comes to mind, if you do decide to contact the prior owners, is list all your options for them, and ask what THEY think would be the appropriate way to move forward.

[northernlights]

2. I didn't blow off the opportunity to sue

I don't have the cash to pay an up front retainer and ongoing expenses, and haven't found an attorney that will take it on contingency. $20K may be a lot of money to you and me, but it's chicken feed to them. It's not even peanuts; it's the shells. AND the up front cost of a suit, according to the attorney that finally shot straight with me after I blasted him, would be $15-20K. No guarantee I'd win, and no guarantee if I win 2 years down the road that they'll just write me a check.

I absolutely intend to contact the prior owners.I know that if it was me, I'd want a clean slate before I died. I feel terrible if I cause someone else harm, regardless that it's unintentional, and always repay damage.

[Why Syzygy]

3. Oh sorry.

I misunderstood the situation with the attorney. Different altogether.

[northernlights]

6. nothing to apologize for :)

as I wrote, I think the couple that sold me the property are decent people. Since they don't *appear* to have any heirs, they may want to leave earth with a "clean slate" and return my lost savings, since my loss was their gain.

I realize I'm really wierd by some standards in the normal world. But if I were getting close to death and learned that a large chunk of my money had come to me unfairly and at someone else's expense, I'd want to give them their money back. I'd probably wait until I was gone and was sure I didn't need it any more, but I'd want to know about it so I could 'make it right.' I think its my virgo ascendant...I don't like to leave things unfinished and I never like taking something that belongs to someone else. Even though it came to them by accident, it's too close to stealing for me.

[davsand]

4. This kind of real estate debate has no clean solution.

I know of one dispute (know it intimately, in fact--I got called to testify in the case) that has been ongoing for TEN years. Tens of Thousands have been spent in legal fees, and it involves a tiny triangle of a lot that literally is about big enough to park a compact car on (Because that is what is sitting on it right now.)

While I'm sure you feel like you got ripped off, I have to ask if you REALLY want to get involved in suing some old minister who probably had NO idea that HE got ripped off by somebody? Do you think that is gonna go over well with a jury or even a judge?

If you have been told your title policy doesn't cover this the ONLY damages you will recover will most likely be from some old man that maybe had NO idea he was selling something he didn't own. The clerk's office only records the information--there is probably no guarantee that what they record is accurate, and in may places you can't really sue the government for damages on stuff like that. (Your laws may vary--I only know Illinois law on this stuff.)

Essentially, if you do recover anything from the old minister it is gonna cost you about $20K UP FRONT to pay your lawyer--and you may not win--which means you are out the legal fees with NO return--which is even MORE money you have lost.

Bad as it feels, if it was me, I'd let it go. Get your property surveyed by a reputable company and move forward.

That is my advice.


Laura

Added on edit:

I also just thought about the fact you are trying to sell this property. Filing a lawsuit right now is gonna make it that much harder to sell. I SERIOUSLY would urge you to think long and hard about what you want to do.

[northernlights]

5. um davsand, I have NO intention of suing an elderly minister

I looked at legal options regarding potentially suing the town and the realtor and concluded that I wouldn't recover my losses and that it's not worth it.

I simply want to let the elderly minister and his wife know what happened. They apparently have no heirs. They may decide to do the right thing and compensate me on their deaths, seeing as they received about $40K more for the property than it was worth due to the misrepresentation. Or they may not.

I'm just trying to figure out how to approach the matter.

[NuttyFluffers]

7. a neighborly note saying hi and relating news.

it's gonna be real hard to ask for that money from them, if at all. sounds almost karmic. but relating news and keeping in touch with old neighbors (considering you are all on good terms) should be an easy way to just... give the information. what they do with it is up to them. besides, it's good to be friendly with people, even if they are the beneficiaries of a windfall at your expense.

[northernlights]

8. you're right

also a number of people have brought up the excess taxes the town collected. For my 3 years, it's probably a small amount and I can't even figure it out because at 3 years my taxes went down due to the homesteading rules. But they overpaid for about 17 or 18 years. That could make a difference to them, if they are able to get them refunded.

[MorningGlow]

9. Yes, I was going to say

that if you approach them as being on the same side in this issue--"hey, I've overpaid taxes--you may have, too"--then they could be inclined to respond and you could deal with the situation together...? (Or is that too naive? :rofl:)

[northernlights]

10. we're probably both too naive

but I figure the worst case that is they say, "It's God's will. Tough break pagan heretic." :shrug:

From 2,000 miles away that probably won't hurt too much! :rofl: