Am I making a big mistake buying from this place?

[RaRa]

I posted a month ago about buying a yorkie for my mom. She's turning 70 and really wants another one. We're having a special family gathering for her and really want to surprise her with one on that day. Hence the urgency to get one now and not wait a few weeks or months.

Anyway, I found an available male puppy through a breeder site. This place is a kennel breeding maybe three types of dogs. This lady made it sound like they're so on the up and up with their guarantee blah blah. But my gut tells me to run. This puppy is the runt of the litter. First bad sign. Second, this isn't a place where you can just go and check the puppies out. They have 2 Saturdays per month where they have two different remote locations where they bring the puppies for viewing. Maybe that's normal, I don't know. She didn't give me the best vibes.
Third, her last name and the name of the kennel is Sunny Mourning. Ugh!

The reason (aside from my desperation to get this done ASAP) I'm even considering this is that I can of course first check this puppy out. Second, after purchasing it I can take it to my vet (whom I really trust) who can tell me keep it or return it and I can with a full refund. My vet said to go with my gut (that I don't like this lady),but did say she could reasonably evaluate whether or not this is a messed up puppy or not.

I'm just looking for a Yorkie that will stay within the breed weight range (no more than 7 lbs) and won't give my mom huge vet bills.

So different from getting my own German Shepard recently - wanted top working breed...but this is a lap dog for crying out loud!

At long last my question (also topic), do you think relying on my vet check is good enough? - or still too risky?

[livetohike]

1. My advice - go with your gut

I don't like the idea that you can't see where the puppy has been living, or see the parents of the puppy.

It doesn't sound right to me, but I've never dealt with a breeder. All of the dogs I have had came from a neighbor's litter, or the shelters.

[yewberry]

2. Too risky for me.

I'd go with my gut feeling. And they won't let you come to their facility? No way would I go for that...could be a puppy mill.

Why a puppy? Have you checked into any yorkie rescue orgs?

[RaRa]

5. That's what

my mom wants. Besides, there aren't many available through rescues. It's not like with big dogs that people realize too late that they can't handle them. Plus, the few I have seen available through rescues have had serious health problems. Not going to give my mom that heartache or expense.

[Lorien]

7. I understand the heartache and expense issue

that's why I ended up with two purebreds after one of my rescue kitties died of a hereditary heart disease. Still, I'd say go with your gut. I went through the same thing trying to find Puck, my Turkish Angora; I simply didn't feel good about the only two breeders who were anywhere close to me. I ended up having her shipped from California to Florida from a breeder who only has two litters a year (if that). Her cats were both pets, not caged breeders, and I think that's very important for producing well adjusted, personable offspring. Puck has just the kind of personality I was looking for.
Have you searched outside of your area? Taking a long drive or having one shipped may be a better option. Your "gut" will speak to you about out of town breeders, too.

Good luck!

[underseasurveyor]

3. RED FLAGS RED FLAGS

Reputable breeders will not keep potential buyers from seeing their kennels. They may not allow visitors into certain areas like whelping areas but if they are only willing to show puppies away from their kennels in remote places, I'd stay far far away.

Do a google search for Yorkie rescues instead. Don't give more money to assholes whose only concern is putting as much money as they can in their own pockets at the expense of suffering and neglected animals.

You might ask your vet if there is an agency you can contact to go check this "kennel" out. Or call your local ASPCA to alert them to possible puppy mill cruelty.

[RaRa]

4. Thanks, I know you're all right. Now I will forget this mill eom

[oregonjen]

6. Don't forget them, report them! Puppy mills exist and it is up to us

to step forward and turn these people in.

[RaRa]

10. What can I actually report?

I don't really know anything, just have my feelings. The lady is providing decent guarantees. Is the fact that I can't see the puppies in their home enough to report them?

The certificate or photo as a gift for my mom is what I'll have to do. It's not the end of the world, I just thought if it could be done in person try for it. But not to worry, I'm not getting anything from this breeder.

[underseasurveyor]

13. It's not so much that you're "reporting" anything specific or "wrong"

but more of a "heads up" request that they look into very suspicious circumstances regarding this "breeders" seemingly covert behavior in selling her puppies.

You had a gut feeling something was amiss, trust your instincts. If you make a call or two and they check this person/kennel out and everything is cool, then no harm done. But if there is a house of horrors puppy mill found, just think, you will have helped bring an end to the agony of lord knows how many dogs and puppies. Wouldn't it be a relief to know for sure either way, they're safe or they're saved?

And besides if a puppy mill is found, they'd need to find homes for those that are rescued, right ;-)

This "lady" can puff up her 'guarantees' all she wants, doesn't mean they'll measure up to her claims or be legally binding if she's running an illegal operation. I mean what is she going to tell you (or anyone selling anything for that matter), my product is shit, the guarantee is worthless but please buy what I'm selling anyway? Would you still purchase it? Heck no you wouldn't. People will say anything short of the truth, omit part of the truth, exaggerate the truth, and they will flat out lie sometimes to get your money out of your pocket and into theirs.

Please make a phone call or two or if you're not sure you can or want to or you're too busy or that you might feel bad doing so, PM me with any of the breeders info you have and what state and county she lives in and I'll gladly make some calls, K?! :thumbsup:

:hi:

[SW FL Dem]

8. I've been involved in terrier rescue for 3 years now

The situation raises too many red flags. Why can't you give your mom a certificate or a picture of a healthy, well bred puppy , and then give it to her when you find it. I know you want to give her the gift at her party, but isn't it better to make sure you give her a healthy pet??

[RebelOne]

9. Run, Run, Run the other way.

Sounds like a puppy mill to me.

[luzdeluna]

11. I'm sorry to sound hard hearted

but buying a dog from a puppy mill and bringing it as a gift to a party sounds like bad idea to me.

If you consider how many puppies had to die or live their short lives in filth and sickness (not to mention the little dog in rescue who is waiting for a forever home) to make the gift possible it seems heartbreaking.

There are lots of responsible breeders all over the country who breed to improve the health and temperament of their chosen breeds. Many of them are involved in their breed rescue as well.

I wish that everyone would consider adoption but there are circumstances when a family needs to buy a pet. It's up to them to encourage sound breeding practices and kindness in the people they purchase from.

And now to sound like a real grinch....it's also possible that a party is not quite the optimum environment for an infant miniature breed dog that has just arrived. They are delicate little things to begin with and most likely terrified.

Maybe a picture wouldn't be that thrilling but you could avoid scaring it and bring it home to a nice quiet warm bed at a later date.


LDL

[RaRa]

12. Not really a big party

I would have had the puppy for one week, so it should have adjusted to my family. Then it would have been my parents and brother's family. Nobody else. I recall my mom's first yorkie and how timid it was the first couple of days, so I understand your concern. We wouldn't scare it that way!

[China_cat]

14. Your gut is giving you good advice.

Breeders who traffic in more than one breed are usually puppy mills.

They won't let you drop in and see the place and meet the parents...bad sign #2. You don't say she has a contract. Bad sign #3.

Don't rely on their word that you can bring the pup back if your vet says it's too high a risk. I've seen too many people get burned. In fact, the guy who originally owned my Rosie never even saw in his 'health guarantee' the words "health guaranteed only until the first vet visit". In other words, once she was taken in, the guarantee stopped. She has recurrent staph and got dumped because of it.

Find a reputable breeder. Do some research as to the health problems that the parents can be tested for and ask if they've been done. And expect to be put through a wringer before you get a puppy. Good breeders will make absolutely sure that you really want this dog...even if they sometimes make you feel like you'd have an easier time adopting a child.

Oh...one mark of a good breeder; they will guarantee that they will take back the dog ANYTIME during its life. They care not just about where the dog goes but where it stays and they will insist that if anything happens and you cannot care for it, they will take it back even if they have to pay shipping to get it to them.

Good luck.

[Maru Kitteh]

15. Why not just

make it possible for some poor little small doggie in a pound not to be put to death for the simple crime of becoming inconvenient or not being loved?

Does it have to be a designer dog? So many good-hearted and healthy animals die every day, why not do what you can for one?

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

16. Try searching for one on Petfinder

www.petfinder.com I just did a search on Yorkies and it returned 217 of them

There are lots of small dogs in shelters. Many of them are purebred. People buy them and then decide its too much work so they drop them off at the shelter. Millions are put to sleep every year.Owner surrenders are usually the first to be put down.

Its true that you don't know their background in terms of health issues,etc .Unless you buy a dog from a reputable breeder (not a backyard breeder such as the one you were talking to) you won't get any background info. But you will be saving a life and - I swear - the dog will know it and be forever grateful

[RaRa]

17. Jesus

I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for trying to make mom happy. She's got enough dealing with serious arthritis and my dad who has Alzheimer's. Pure bred means you know what you're getting. My mom can't easily pick up a 20 lb dog and with the pound you don't know. And yes, I want to give her a puppy. Sheesh.

[underseasurveyor]

18. It's ok RaRa. Sometimes it's hard for the deeply passionate

to ease up when it comes to animals. Myself very much included in that statement. We can't help it :evilgrin: heh heh

But you know that Veganistan's heart is coming from the right place:loveya: Yes?

Thanks;-)

[American Tragedy]

22. There is nothing WRONG with getting a pedigreed puppy.

Although I am a major proponent of adopting homeless adult dogs, responsible pet owners should not feel guilty for offering a good home to a purebred "designer dog" if that's what is most appropriate for them.

Dogs would be far less likely to wind up in shelters in the first place if they come from good bloodlines free of genetic defects, produced by breeders who carefully socialize their pups and educate prospective owners about the unique characteristics and requirements of the breed and the individual puppy. There is no shame in positively reinforcing their efforts.

The only way to tear down the puppy mill industry is for consumers to actively reject them in favor of reputable breeders, which renders their unscrupulous breeding methods wholly unprofitable. That ultimately will decrease the population of displaced animals that flood animal rescues and are often difficult to adopt out due to physical and behavioral problems.

[Lorien]

25. I agree, and another thing we can do

is to urge our local governments to pass mandatory spay/ neuter laws, with fines that exceed the cost of a spay or neuter. Many towns across the country have done this, but not enough. Also, I believe that breeders need to be regulated. I have two purebred cats and two rescues. My purebreds came from small, highly rated breeders that only have 1-2 litters per year. However, I visited one breeder in Ohio that appalled me. She had 3 litters at one time in a home of 35 cats! The home was small and dirty, and the smell would nearly knock a person out. She needed to be shut down (and on top of it, she and her husband had a framed photo of * and Laura on their wall)!

I have a friend in California who keeps meerkats (overflow from litters born at the San Diego zoo). Those meerkats have been very well kept for years in enclosures that rival the best most zoos have to offer. Still, the state springs surprise inspections on her every year. I believe that the same should be done for breeders of dogs and cats. This would reduce a lot of heartache for both owners and their pets.

[Lorien]

19. Many elderly people shouldn't be forced to

roll those dice if they can't afford it, emotionally or financially.

Here's the deal; while most of us would feel better about adoption, some of us who love our pets deeply can get into a lot of trouble when acquiring a shelter animal. Many purebreds in shelters DID come from disreputable breeders, and those animals often have inherited genetic defects which are ticking time bombs. My beloved rescue kitty Peewee was the son of a former show cat who bred with an alley cat. He was born carrying the gene for HCM. When he got older, his health began to quickly decline, one issue caused another...soon I was battling not only the HCM but kidney disease and hyperthyroid. I loved Peewee more than anything, so I would not allow the costs of his treatments to be an obstacle. But my income is paltry compared to what it once was, and the vet bills nearly drove me into bankruptcy. I kept spending, though, in hopes of saving my beloved furbaby. He died. I was so heartbroken, I couldn't eat for nearly two weeks.

Now think about Rara's mother. It would be better for her to have no pet at all than to experience what I did with Peewee. Rara is not killing a pound puppy by buying a purebred, he or she is trying to provide companionship for his/her mother that comes with a bit of insurance. A pet CAN extend the life of it's owner, but grief and poverty can end the life of an elderly person. I understand your feelings about shelter pets; I have two rescues myself. I also own two purebreds. The pedigreed pets I have are ancient, naturally vigorous breeds with healthy bloodlines. I hope to have them for 20 years or more-they're my insurance. The rescues I took in because they would have died otherwise. You can condemn me as well if you like, but two rescues are all I feel financially and emotionally capable of handling. Please try to understand the position Rara's mother is in; a pet will be a healthy thing for HER to have, and in this case, the issue really needs to be about her well being at this stage of her life.

[SammyWinstonJack]

20. Try this site

www.yorkiepup.com I have a little Yorkie girl and am thinking of getting a companion for her. This is a great site!

[flvegan]

21. Jeff Dane? I don't think so.

Let's see...he breeds yorkies, shihtzus and poodles hand over fist for money. He uses the ACA as his registry.

Google his name and see how "great" he and this site are.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. Thanks for the info

I just came across this site and read some of the comments from people who had purchased his pups. They seemed quite satisfied with him and the fact that he did follow ups and was available for advice. :shrug: My Yorkie didn't come from his operation.

[radfringe]

23. go with your gut

my mom lost her dachshund after a month or so she realized she missed having a dog around -- so she went on the internet and found what she thought was a good deal on a dachshund

she was told the dog was 2 years old, AKC registered and in good health...

so they made a deal and my mom picked up the dog, after giving the dog a week or so to settle in she took it to the vet for a check-up and make arrangements to have the dog neutered

-- well the vet told her the dog wasn't 2 years old - too much tarter on the teeth (which needed attention because there was a rotten tooth in there too), the dog also had ear mites soooo bad they needed to be treated with shots instead of the ointment and cleaning, and he also had seborrhea on his ears.

meanwhile - my mother sent in the paper work for owner transfer into the AKC -- she got a letter back from them saying that the dog was NEVER registered with them in the first place

she kept the dog because she would never send him back to that place and of course she was already attached

this was over a year ago -- Fritz is doing well, and my mom is on a one woman crusade to get the kennel shut down

[Rhiannon12866]

24. My question would be about the age of the owner.

My two most responsible friends, in animal rescue, will never place a kitten or puppy with an older person. I would hope that this breeder is as responsible, or I would really ask questions. A cat can live for 20 years, and small dogs almost as long. I lost my cocker, Barney, sadly, at 18. My two dogs, Sheena, my cocker, and, Meneken, my tiny Brussels Griffon, both became homeless because both of their owners, older ladies, died, and both were very nearly euthanized, though they were also purebred dogs, but they had no provisions made for them. I caught Sheena by a week and my tiny Meneken, by a day. Despite being a tiny rare breed, nobody wanted him. I would never give an elderly lady a puppy, unless you know that she has 20 years to see this dog through. God willing, I sure hope your Mom does. Sorry, but I have seen what can result with this. Just my advice, but it is through experience. And I do hope your mother has a great birthday, Consider getting her an older pet. There are many in rescue, even Yorkies. Sheena was eight and Meneken was nine, when they found me. Here are my guys who lost their original moms.;(

Meneken and Sheena:

[RaRa]

27. Update

Ok, I found a male yorkie. My vet was impressed (as far as she is able to be with a small breed - she's a German Shepard lover). So he's healthy and feisty. My mom's going to see him in about an hour (surprise). This dog will not be without a home. Should it survive my mom, and she doesn't have a preferred place for him, we would take him with no question.

[Odonata]

28. Run away

from breeders that don't let you visit their breeding site. Also breeders who deal with more than one breed can be a little iffy. It sounds like it could be a puppy mill to me. I think it would be better to take the time to find a reputable breeder and surprise your mom with an announcement that you're looking for a healthy new companion.