My dog fainted.

[undeterred]

It was really scary- I thought he keeled over and died. He's two.

His fur is matted and I asked the vet to prescribe a sedative so that he would cooperate in letting me groom him. She prescribed acepromazine. I used it to sedate him last night and it went ok. He was groggy but cooperative.

This morning I took him to the dog park and he was a little subdued, which I expected. Then he saw a playmate and they started to run around together. All of a sudden he just fell over on his side and didn't move. I went to him and picked his head up- he was completely limp. There was nothing I could do. After about a minute he picked his head up. He stayed lying down for about five minutes and then got to his feet again. He seemed pretty normal after that.

I called my vet about an hour later and have an appt next Tuesday. I discussed the incident with the vet tech and she said it could be a lot of things, including a seizure. But he wasn't moving when he was down. This dog is completely healthy, at least he was until now.

Has anyone ever had a dog faint?

[Zoigal]

1. Gee, that's interesting. Never had a dog faint.

But i know that there sometimes can be adverse reactions to acepromazine, although my dogs have never had
any. Hope your dog continues to be okay. Be sure to post if you find an answer.....z

[Sanity Claws]

2. What were his eyes like?

My dog had a heart attack and was out of it for a couple of minutes and slowly came out of it. I took him to the vet later that day on an emergency basis. He was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy.

He was a boxer, 6.5 years old at the time.

[undeterred]

3. His eyes were glassy last night when he was sedated

and less so this morning. When he was out his eyes were half open, not moving.

The drug I gave him (acepromazine) is not used for boxers because it can cause arrythmias in that breed - is it common for boxers to have heart problems?

How did they treat the cardiomyopathy? Did he ever have another heart attack?

[Sanity Claws]

4. Boxers are prone to cardiomyopathy

At least that was what I was told.

Regular vet gave him a prescription for a human heart medication whose name I just can't remember. My father was on it too.

I then took my dog to a vet who was also trained in Chinese medicine. The second vet gave the dog herbs. The only one I remember at this point (over ten years later) is hawthorne; he also suggested CoQ10.

[spooky3]

6. I urge the OP to get an echocardiogram for his/her dog immediately. These symptoms

could indicate hypertrophic cardiomypathy. My cat exhibited these symptoms and HCM was later diagnosed. The sooner you get this diagnosis (if that is the cause of the fainting) and start treating it, the better chance the animal has to live.

[grasswire]

17. coQ10 has really improved my cat with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy

It wasn't suggested by my vet, but I asked her about it. Kitty was diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago on a night when he was in a lot of distress. He has outlived the prognosis, handily. He takes Lasix and CoQ10 and Omega 3 oil. He was prescribed atenolol, but did not tolerate it -- totally zonked him out.

Kitty is active. He can run up a flight of stairs, and is generally cheerful and observant. I have to help with the grooming occasionally. He goes outside on a leash several times a week to enjoy the garden. He's about 16 years old. About 10 mg of CoQ10 every other day on his wet food.

[spooky3]

7. my cat had several prescriptions that helped--fortunately there is a lot of human research

on this so there are lots of meds. If we had caught it earlier, he would have lived longer than he did.

[Warpy]

5. It sounds like a seizure to me

and might be med related. I'd avoid giving him any more doggy tranquilizer. An "alpha slam" might get him into a more cooperative mood for routine, daily grooming, something you're going to have to be meticulous about this time of year in prime shedding season.

There are all types of seizures and some of them, the complex partial seizures, might involve muscle groups that are difficult to recognize*. They can be controlled by medication if the medication you gave him wasn't to blame and it happens again. The five minutes of grogginess you described is typical behavior coming out of a seizure, called a postictal state.

*I once had a patient they were considering in a persistent vegetative state until I noticed movement in the masseter muscle and managed to convince a doc he was in status epilepticus. We loaded him with anti seizure medication and he woke up. So yes, they can be very subtle.

[jtuck004]

8. Just a little fyi - ace is a pretty common medication given a lot

for situations in which the animal is hard to handle, is scared, etc. It is relatively safe. You should be aware that there have been incidents reported with adverse reactions in boxers and sighthounds - you can read about that here": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acepromazine

Here's an article where they talk about the paralytic capabilities of Ace: http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/AcepromazineChlorpromazine.pdf

Is he a boxer, or a mix with some Boxer?

There was an interesting article some years ago about a study they did back East, or maybe it was a veterinary position paper? Anyway the upshot was that acepromazine has a relaxing effect on the muscles, kind of like paralysis. It does make the animal easier to handle, but doesn't do anything for the anxiety. Somewhat like being awake during surgery - all the scary stuff is there, but you can't really do anything about it. Valium was the drug of choice to deal with anxiety. The problem is that it is very controlled, (DEA) and the vet handing it out to untrained dog owners to be used at the groomer is really asking for liability issues. So you don't see it dispensed much.

Upshot is your dog may have an allergy, it may have been a cardiac episode related to the meds, could have been a reaction to other meds (you mentioned grooming - not supposed to use it while flea dipping). You will not always see the tremors with a seizure, so it may or may not have been one. It is possible that it could have been a cardiac problem related to the Ace. A vet you trust is always a good place to start - but you can do some good reading in Google with searches for "Acepromazine" or "Acepromazine allergy cardiac".

You may want to consult a behaviorist or someone you think is competent and knowledgable with dogs. There are a lot of techniques that can be used to help a dog get used to almost anything. Not saying that is the best for this dog in this situation, but as a general rule you can do a whole lot with little tiny bites of roast beef or chicken at the appropriate times. Not as easy or quick as Ace, but usually you don't have the dog passing out.

And, yes, I have had dogs pass out. The most recent was when an English Setter...got stung by a bee. It appeared much like a severe allergic reaction in a human - panting, swelling of the airway, shaking, drooling - down. Gums still perfusing, heart still beating. I got him up and he kind of rolled his eyes, and by the time we got to the emergency vet he was doing a little better. Nothing like humans getting all excited to stimulate a dog ;)

Hope he's ok!

[undeterred]

9. Thanks for all the info.

We are finally seeing the vet tomorrow so she can listen to his heart, possibly do an ECG and heart xray. Hes an Australian Shepherd mix, pretty headstrong. It took 4 people to do a routine blood draw at the vets office in March. He's really not anxious- just doesn't cooperate with anything he thinks is unpleasant. I can usually get about 1 minute of brushing in before he just gets up and leaves. He's been fine since the day he fainted- which happened about 15 hours after I gave him the drug... but that does seem like a long interval between giving him the drug and him passing out.

[jtuck004]

10. Yea, Aussies can be a handful. Great dogs. Let us know what happens. n.t.

[undeterred]

11. Went to the vet yesterday.

My vet said she heard some slight heart murmurs that she hadn't heard before. That's really not a huge deal. My last dog had a heart murmur and he lived to be almost 16. She said dogs don't really have heart attacks like people do. But they can have stenosis.

The episode was probably syncope(fainting) and related to the acepromazine, but it could point to some underlying problem.

She didn't think an ECG would tell her much more than listening to his heart. However she wanted to get some films of his chest. We did that this morning.

His heart vessels look fine. However, some of the vessels to the lungs appear enlarged and have nodules. Looked consistent with heartworm- but he's been on Intercept for over a year and a half and he tested negative for heartworm in March. So the films are being sent to the vet school here in Madison for a radiologists opinion. Will hopefully hear back tomorrow.

He had to be sedated for the xrays.

$441 so far. Now is the time I'm glad I invested in pet insurance.

[undeterred]

12. So the final word from the radiologist at the vet school is...

there are no abnormalities on the chest films which should have caused him to faint.. no stenosis or anatomical abnormalities. The person doing the consult has more experience looking at these films than my vet, who thought his pulmonary vessels were enlarged.

The radiologist said that he could have fainted because of an arrythmia, and if it happens again I will take him to the vet school so they can check his heart out with more tests.

But for now there is nothing really to worry about. My vet told me to come back again in 3 months or if another event happens. There's been no problems since he fainted 8 days ago. He's been swimming, playing, running like he always does. Its still unclear what role the drug played, but I won't give him acepromazine again.

:thumbsup:

[livetohike]

14. That's good news

:-) It's great you have access to a vet school and were able to get a good second opinion. Hope everything gets back to normal quickly.

[undeterred]

15. Thanks.

[MadMaddie]

20. That is really good news!

[jtuck004]

13. Glad to hear he's ok. Although reactions to Ace are more common

in boxers they can happen to any dog, especially since genes are mixed all over the place.

Thanks for the update!

[undeterred]

16. Thank you.

My vet said that syncope after Ace was uncommon. My dog had actually had it administered when he was neutered 18 months ago also, and didn't have a bad response to it then.

Hopefully it doesn't happen again. :hi:

[JanusAscending]

18. You say your dog had matted hair.

What breed is it? Not by any chance a Bichon?

[undeterred]

19. He's an Australian Shepherd mix.

Probably a livestock herding dog - I got him from a shelter in rural Missouri.