gender issue lives on as clinton's hopes dim

[niyad]

(note the use of SENATOR obama, and MRS. Clinton, ignoring her title, but not his. no, of course, no sexism at all)

Gender Issue Lives On as Clinton’s Hopes Dim


By JODI KANTOR
Published: May 19, 2008
With each passing day, it seems a little less likely that the next president of the United States will wear a skirt — or a cheerful, no-nonsense pantsuit.


Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is now in what most agree are the waning days of her bid for the Democratic presidential nomination. To use her own phrase, she has been running “to break the highest and hardest glass ceiling” in American life, and now the presidency — even a nomination that once seemed to be hers to claim — seems out of reach.

Along with the usual post-mortems about strategy, message and money, Mrs. Clinton’s all-but-certain defeat brings with it a reckoning about what her run represents for women: a historic if incomplete triumph or a depressing reminder of why few pursue high office in the first place.

The answers have immediate political implications. If many of Mrs. Clinton’s legions of female supporters believe she was undone even in part by gender discrimination, how eagerly will they embrace Senator Barack Obama, the man who beat her?

“Women felt this was their time, and this has been stolen from them,” said Marilu Sochor, 48, a real estate agent in Columbus, Ohio, and a Clinton supporter. “Sexism has played a really big role in the race.”

. . . . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/19/us/politics/19women.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=clinton+campaign+sexism&st=nyt&oref=slogin

[LisaM]

1. I was just listening to a lead in for Arianna Huffington on our local NPR station

and it mentioned that she got her start writing a book disparaging the women's movement of the 1970s. That tells me all I need to know about her - I think she's a big phony anyway.

I think the women's movement of the 1970s was a heartbreak. They (we, though I am younger) struggled and got a lot of the way there. Now, we are stalled. It hurts me the most to hear women who want no part of it, who dissociate themselves from it.

I do want a woman president, and I think Hillary is the right one. If Obama gets the nomination and tries to throw me a different woman VP candidate for a sop, I will be livid.

[niyad]

4. young women have no idea (thank you, public education) what it took to get them

the advantages they have today. I think, for example, "Iron-Jawed Angels" needs to be required viewing.

agree with you.

[LisaM]

6. I know. It kills me to hear women disparage it.

Though neither has fulfilled its promise, never forget that the Civil Rights Act passed in the 1960s, and the Equal Rights Amendment never did.

[Captain Hilts]

8. I'm not a feminist, but.... women feel a need to disown the term. Why?

You don't hear people of color say, "I'm not in favor of civil rights, but..."

[niyad]

12. because of all the ugly, hateful stereotypes about feminists. "man-hating, child eating,

perverted, ugly, bitter" are just a few of the things said about feminists. listen to rush or any of the reichwing hatemongers sometime. or listen to phyllis schlafly and company. disgusting.

[Warpy]

17. It's just a general shaming we all go through

whether it's voicing our background fear, problems with our physiology, or voicing our need for a more egalitarian world.

Young women learn very early on that feminists are all unattractive to males. Oh, I know it's not true, but that's what's dinned into their young and pretty little heads. They learn to disown the term in order to have any sort of a social network. Owning the term means a certain amount of ostracism and a lot of shaming.

[gaspee]

15. That movie

Is on my all time top five movies.

[PeaceNikki]

18. Thank you for mentioning that film. I watched it last night.

Amazing.

And, I agree, it should be required viewing for everyone as part of American history. Male and female.

[populistdriven]

2. Who is Hillary?

Is she that former presidential candidate? Bless her heart.

Remember how competitive of a race it was?

[LisaM]

3. Nice.

Sigh.

[niyad]

5. just about what I expected.

[3isamagicnumber]

13. It was a tough one

She fought hard, gotta give her that.

[gaspee]

16. WTF?

Asshole. Oh, sorry - passive aggressive asshole.

There, I let you know my feelings about you without having to revert to stereotypical passive aggressiveness expected of women.

State your real feelings, instead of taking the women's role of passive aggressive cattiness, you'll feel liberated.

[iamjoy]

7. You're Really Reaching Here

(note the use of SENATOR obama, and MRS. Clinton, ignoring her title, but not his. no, of course, no sexism at all)

The first time the article refers to each of them by name, it uses their title. Each time after that it was "Mrs." and "Mr."

I do agree that the contest has been unfair, although how much of that is sexism and how much of that is dislike of Hillary Clinton apart from her gender (if we can even separate the two) is debatable.

I do not think Barack Obama has deliberately been sexist or encouraged that sort of behavior from his supporters. Make no mistake, some of his supporters have been obnoxious. It is nothing compared to what the GOP is ready to throw at our nominee. I also have to admit that Obama himself, for all his eloquence may have fallen into some of the old gender traps. I don't see his "you're likable enough, Hillary" as chauvinistic dismissal - I see it as a politician dodging an uncomfortable question. Obama does sometimes come across as supercilious.

However, any woman so upset about Hillary Clinton's unfair treatment who would be inclined to campaign against Obama, or sit this one out and help McCain win is cutting off her nose to spite her face. McCain's presidency would be a disaster for this country, but especially for women.

[LisaM]

9. What frustrates me greatly is that the issue has been pre-empted

it shouldn't be a race to the bottom - is sexism worse, or is racsim worse? It's exciting - or it WAS exciting - to have the first viable woman, and the first viable African-American. However, it's sifted out in a way most women probably expected (for all the talk of Hillary being the presumptive nominee, I never saw it). Once race was injected into the dialogue (refer to the four-page memo that was leaked from the Obama campaign), Hillary lost the battle for a "first". She could not have seriously gone and made a big speech about sex, the way Obama did about race.

I feel, and I'm speaking only for myself, not other women, that the issue was stolen from her. I've frequently been lectured about how racism is worse than sexism. I absolutely do not agree - witness what happened in that polygamy colony if you don't think there is institutionalized rape of women still going on, not to mention virtual slavery - and I think that the issue has been completely hijacked. It's extremely disheartening. Someone here, in an effort to cheer up a woman who is 52 and was depressed about the whole thing, tried to tell her not to worry, we'd probably have a woman president in the next 25 years! (she was accepting the idea that she would probably never see a woman president in her lifetime). 25 years! By then, her working days will be over.

[iamjoy]

10. On That I Agree

It's meaningless to debate which is worse in our society - racism or sexism. In a way it stinks we have had a strong, viable African American and a strong, viable woman at the same time. Regardless of who wins, a large group is going to feel cheated, and that something was taken from them.

[LisaM]

11. Yep. And I do.

And I really hate that sexism is marginalized by racism. It's completely unfair. And it will continue.

We'll continue to hear how Hillary wasn't "the right woman" (of course, never noting that the so-called right women weren't running), how she was too shrill, how she was (in Chris Matthew's words) and "eat your peas" kind of candidate and so on.

As I've stated before, if Senator Obama gets the nod, he'd BETTER not throw me some other woman as a VP candidate as a sop. I would find that incredibly condescending, particularly if it's one who did not endorse Hillary. He should pick Hillary, but I'm afraid she's been too villainized by now.

[gaspee]

14. How dare you

IS going to be the response to this thread. But there's no such thing as sexism, you're going to be told. We all know better.

We all live with it every fucking day of our lives.

Those with even a little bit of awareness see it. Too bad so many just dismiss it as "the way things are."