A new era of scientific discovery?

[beam me up scottie]

Intrigued by the spectacular claims made for Live Blood Analysis? Don't be. It doesn't work

Edzard Ernst
Tuesday July 12, 2005
The Guardian

According to its supporters, Live Blood Analysis marks "a new era of scientific discovery" which is presently conquering the UK. One of the growing number of websites advocating this latest diagnostic tool describes its impact thus: "As the horse gave way to the horseless carriage, so must science now accommodate a new understanding of the body as a whole."

The principle of LBA is fairly simple: a drop of blood is taken from your fingertip, put on a glass plate and viewed via a microscope on a video screen. Despite the claims made for it, LBA is by no means new; using his lately developed microscope, Antony van Leeuwenhoek observed in 1686 that living blood cells changed shape during circulation. Ever since, doctors, scientists and others have studied blood samples in this and other ways.

*****
So why are holistic practitioners becoming so fond of it? Seeing one's own blood cells on a video screen is, admittedly, a powerful experience. It gives patients the impression of hi-tech, cutting edge science combined with holistic care. And impressed patients are ready to part with a lot of money. American websites explain how a practitioner can make $100,000 (£57,000) annually by purchasing the equipment necessary for performing LBA. The bulk of this money is made not through charging for the test itself but by selling expensive nutritional supplements to the patient with the promise that these will correct whatever abnormality has been diagnosed.

In other words, patients are potentially cheated three times over. First, you are diagnosed with a "condition" you don't have; then a lengthy and expensive treatment ensues; and finally the bogus test is repeated and you are declared "improved" or "back to normal".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1526339,00.html

One born every minute...:rofl:

[Pepperbelly]

1. why would anyone pay for this?

My HMO probably wouldn't cover it anyway. :7

[dwckabal]

2. Hmm..Gee, I wonder why?

For the very same reason they pay astrologers, homeopaths, naturopaths, osteopaths; the same reasons they fork over tons of cash for training and/or guidance in ESP, PK, astral projection and dianetics; and the same reason people spend $$$ on "miracle" waters, magnetic wine enhancers, reflexology, tarot card readings and talking to dead relatives:

Their knowledge filter has quit working. In other words, they don't know bullshit when they see it.

[Celebration]

3. And we pay

Even more money for miracle cures like Vioxx, Bextra, Rezulin and the like. My new favorite miracle cure is cocoa/chocolate. That's MY cure all and I am sticking to it!!

http://newark.dbusinessnews.com/shownews.php?newsid=35975&type_news=latest

Much tastier and cheaper than the other stuff. Reflexology feels great though. I thought osteopaths were mainstream??? LOL that you would put osteopaths in the same paragraph with astral projection. I recently went to the Minor Emergency Center affiliated with the largest private hospital in the city, and saw the Osteopath they had hired to be in charge. I don't remember him doing anything harmful or even out of the ordinary.

[dwckabal]

4. Osteopathy

From wikipedia:

Osteopathy was founded by Dr. Andrew Taylor Still, who was born in 1828 in Virginia...Dr Still had been employed as an army doctor during the American Civil War on the abolitionist side, the horrors of battle field injury and the subsequent death of his wife and several children from infectious diseases left him totally disillusioned with the practice of medicine. He had previously trained as an engineer and the achievements of civil engineering at that time, the great rail roads crossing the American continent were in contrast to the state of medicine. This no doubt prompted his enquiry into viewing the body from an engineering perspective. Still approached the study of the human body as one would approach the study of a machine. In the intervening century some of the philosophies developed by Still have been found wanting, others have persisted and developed. The evidence base for osteopathic manipulation is poor but improving, as an area of research it is unattractive to mainstream medical funding bodies/drug companies.

Over time he and his followers developed a series of specialized physical treatments, for which he coined the name Osteopathy. Dr. Still founded the American School of Osteopathy (now the Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine) in Kirksville, Missouri, for the teaching of osteopathy, on May 10, 1892. Kirksville was one of few places where he wasn't figuratively "chased out of town" by other doctors. While the state of Missouri was willing to grant him a charter for the awarding of the M.D. degree, he remained unhappy with the practices of his peers and chose instead to grant his own D.O. degree.

In the late 1800s Still believed that diseases were caused when bones moved out of place, and disrupted the flow of blood, or the flow of nervous impulses; he therefore concluded that one could cure diseases by manipulating bones to restore the supposedly interrupted flow. His critics point out that he never ran any controlled experiments to test his hypothesis. He wrote in his autobiography that he could

"shake a child and stop scarlet fever, croup, diphtheria, and cure whooping cough in three days by a wring of its neck." (Andrew Taylor Still, Autobiography, New York, 1972, Arno Press)

Still questioned the drug practices of his day and regarded surgery as a last resort. As medical science developed, osteopathy gradually incorporated all its theories and practices:

"Today, except for additional emphasis on musculoskeletal diagnosis and treatment, the scope of osteopathy is very similar to that of allopathic medicine. The percentage of practitioners who use osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) and the extent to which they use it have been falling steadily." (Source: Dubious Aspects of Osteopathy, Stephen Barrett)

[Celebration]

7. Good info

Next time I go to an osteopath I will try to make sure his/her degree is post 1950 or so.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Here's what Quackwatch had to say about Osteopathy:

The American Osteopathic Association's web site glorifies Andrew Still and asserts that osteopathic medicine has a unique philosophy of care because "DOs take a whole-person approach to care and don't just focus on a diseased or injured part." I consider it outrageous to imply that osteopathic physicians are the only ones who regard their patients as individuals or who provide comprehensive care or pay attention to disease prevention. Another AOA web document states:

Osteopathic physicians frequently assess impaired mobility of the musculoskeletal system as that system encompasses the entire body and is intimately related to the organ systems and to the nervous system. Using anatomical relationships between the musculoskeletal and these organ systems, osteopathic physicians diagnose and treat all organ systems <12>.

This statement strikes me as the same sort of baloney chiropractors use to suggest that somehow their attention to the spine will have positive effects on all body processes. Spinal manipulation may produce pain relief in properly selected cases of low back pain <13>. However, OMT has no proven effect on people's general health.

*****

Cranial Therapy

Practitioners of "cranial osteopathy," "craniosacral therapy," "cranial therapy," and similar methods claim that the skull bones can be manipulated to relieve pain (especially of the jaw joint) and remedy many other ailments. They also claim that a rhythm exists in the flow of the fluid that surrounds the brain and spinal cord and that diseases can be diagnosed by detecting aberrations in this rhythm and corrected by manipulating the skull. Most practitioners are osteopaths, massage therapists, chiropractors, dentists, or physical therapists.
***
The theory underlying craniosacral therapy is erroneous because the cranial bones fuse by the end of adolescence and no research has ever demonstrated that manual manipulation can move the individual bones <17>. Nor do I believe that "the rhythms of the craniosacral system can be felt as clearly as the rhythms of the cardiovascular and respiratory systems," as is claimed by another Upledger Institute brochure <18>. The brain does pulsate, but this is exclusively related to the cardiovascular system <19>. In a recent study, three physical therapists who examined the same 12 patients diagnosed significantly different "craniosacral rates," which is the expected outcome of measuring a nonexistent phenomenon <20>.

Much more at Quackwatch.
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/osteo.html

[DrGonzoLives]

9. You're right!

I don't need my insulin to live! I'll just drink miracle water and eat chocolate and I'll be perfectly fine! :eyes:

[beam me up scottie]

10. BWA!!!

I love your animation !!!

[Celebration]

11. insulin

I think I would take the insulin if I were you, but I would consider volunteering for this clinical trial--

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00099476

"This study will examine whether dark chocolate affects the way patients with hypertension (high blood pressure) respond to insulin, a hormone secreted by the pancreas that regulates blood glucose (sugar) levels. In many people with hypertension, insulin is not as effective in helping the body use glucose. This is called insulin resistance. Insulin also increases blood flow into muscle by opening inactive blood vessels. Laboratory studies suggest that eating dark chocolate may improve blood pressure. This study will determine whether dark chocolate improves insulin resistance or changes how blood vessels react to insulin in hypertensive people."

[beam me up scottie]

12. Are you insane?

He is diabetic and you think he should volunteer for this study?

[Celebration]

14. I don't think so and sure why not??

Are you thinking that people with diabetes shouldn't eat chocolate or something?

First of all, we have no idea what type of cocoa or chocolate this is. It could be unsweetened or sweetened with low calorie sugar alcohols--or even just extracts.

Secondly, carbohydrates (including sugar) can easily be worked into a diabetes meal plan. It is called "counting carbs."

I just looked at my dark chocolate bar with 65% cocoa content. One serving has 19 grams of carbohydrates. Most diabetics now use or have available short acting insulin that can take into account the number of carbohydrates eaten. And a meal/snack plan can substitute one type of carbohydrate for another.

It could be that this study may exclude those on insulin, however. That it is studying insulin resistance gives us an indication that there are people who strongly suspect that the flavanols in cocoa can have a positive effect on insulin resistance, and are looking for scientific proof of same.

[beam me up scottie]

15. You didn't even read about the study,

did you ?

sigh...

[Celebration]

17. yes I did

It just didn't make clear if those on insulin would be accepted or not. It didn't address it. It said "cocoa drink" but we aren't sure what it is sweetened with, the number of carbohydrates, etc. It could be flavoring, aspartame plus extracts and water, and few carbohydrates, or it could have more--like regular cocoa you buy at the grocery. However, carbohydrates of any type can be worked into a meal plan. He could offer to be part of the study but it is possible that he would be excluded.

[beam me up scottie]

18. Really ? You read it ? In English ?

EXCLUSION CRITERIA
Subjects will be excluded if they have diabetes, pregnancy, liver disease, pulmonary disease, renal insufficiency, coronary heart disease, heart failure, peripheral vascular disease, coagulopathy, actively smoked tobacco within last two years, in treatment for any form of cancer, positive tests for HIV, hepatitis B or C, or take systemic corticosteroids. These conditions are all known to adversely influence insulin sensitivity.

[Celebration]

19. Oops

Too bad. Excluded.

[DrGonzoLives]

13. Let me drop the big 4-1-1 on you

My pancreas doesn't make insulin. That's why I get to inject it.

A little knowledge can be helpful. Especially for whatever Congressman attached this rider to an appropriations bill.

[Celebration]

16. insulin again

Since your pancreas makes no insulin, I will assume that you were being facetious when you suggested that you were going to stop taking it and try an unproven alternative.

It is interesting that insulin resistance can actually be a big problem in Type 1 diabetes, though (no insulin producing islet beta cells). Agents that lower insulin resistance may either decrease the amount of insulin needed or improve glycemic control, as was shown in this study.

"Eur J Endocrinol. 2003 Oct;149(4):323-9.


Metformin as additional therapy in adolescents with poorly controlled type 1 diabetes: randomised placebo-controlled trial with aspects on insulin sensitivity.

Sarnblad S, Kroon M, Aman J.

Department of Paediatrics, University Hospital, Orebro, Sweden. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Metabolic control often deteriorates during puberty in children with type 1 diabetes. The aim of the present study was to investigate whether addition of metformin for 3 Months improves metabolic control and insulin sensitivity. DESIGN: Twenty-six of 30 randomised adolescents with type 1 diabetes (18 females, eight males) completed a double-blind placebo-controlled trial. Their mean age was 16.9+/-1.6 (s.d.) Years, mean glycated haemoglobin (HbA(1c)) 9.5+/-1.1% and daily insulin dosage 1.2+/-0.3 U/kg. The participants were randomised to receive oral metformin or placebo for 3 Months. HbA(1c) was measured Monthly, and peripheral insulin sensitivity was assessed by a euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp at baseline and at the end of the study. RESULTS: HbA(1c) decreased significantly in the group treated with metformin, from 9.6 to 8.7% (P<0.05), but was unchanged in the placebo group (9.5 vs 9.2%). Peripheral glucose uptake divided by mean plasma insulin concentration was increased in the metformin group (P<0.05) but not in the placebo group. Initial insulin sensitivity was inversely correlated to changes in HbA(1c) (r=-0.62; P<0.05) and positively correlated to changes in insulin sensitivity (r=0.77; P<0.01). CONCLUSIONS: In this double-blind placebo-controlled study we found that metformin improves metabolic control in adolescents with type 1 diabetes. The effect seems to be associated with an increased insulin-induced glucose uptake."


So, if cocoa, or some other agent, was shown to increase insulin sensitivity, its benefits might not be limited to those diabetics who are still producing insulin (although it certainly would not be a substititute for insulin).

[Ian David]

20. That sounds cool! I used to use clinical trials page every day for work

It's an amazing site.

[beam me up scottie]

6. Don't forget the

full body scan you can get at the mall.

Many a scam artist have made their fortune by betting on the gullibility of Barnum's children.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.