CRIDICAL...PLEASE PASS THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW ASAP!!!

[Rainscents]

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/healthfreedomusa/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=7185

FDA Regulators Using Legal Trickery to Kill Alternative Procedures and Products
The FDA is using legal maneuvering to end your access to natural health products (like vitamins, minerals and herbs) and natural health therapies of all sorts. Again. This time, their ploy is to declare the therapies are "Medicine" so any non-physician who uses them will be practicing medicine without a license. Since these practices are "Medicine", any products used would be untested drugs and therefore forbidden.

WE MUST STOP THIS SHIT!!! :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh: :argh:

[mikelgb]

1. THIS IS HUGH!

[Kurovski]

3. The apitamy of a krysis.

[EFerrari]

67. loL

:rofl:

[guitar man]

I know

we're so screwn! :scared:

[mikelgb]

13. What can i say?

everyone is a cridic....

[StinkyMcPinknose]

6. ALL YOUR VIDAMINS ARE BELONG TO US!!!!!1111ONE

[Kurovski]

20. I'm shidding myself.

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

2. Well, those poor pharmaceutical companies need all the help they can get, right?

They're just limping along, barely able to pay for test tubes. :sarcasm:

[realisticphish]

17. you mean the massive multinational corporations

that sell vitamins, etc?

[John Q. Citizen]

34. No, they mean the herbalists, tea companies, and the ancillary health

movement.

[TZ]

55. question for you..

do irradiated zombie bacteria fall under the category of vitamin or supplement? I can't remember....:rofl:
(sorry- I couldn't resist)

[donheld]

35. You guys need to get series about this

:evilgrin:

[lpbk2713]

4. Hold on a minute.

.... while I unwade my patties.

[Canuckistanian]

11. Now, don't be casting asparagus

This is a series post!!

[orleans]

71. i'm toadedly series. the fda are morans! n/t

[Lex]

12. ". . . while I unwade my patties."

Ahahahahaha! :rofl:

[nam78_two]

5. Wha..?

Edit: Wish I could take back my rec. This seems to be a bs alert sorry.

[truedelphi]

10. Nope, this is real --Google "Codex" and vitamins

And you will be allowed to see what has already done in Europe

[nam78_two]

14. Ok I still don't get it.nt

[MonkeyFunk]

15. Tell me what's been done....

you can still buy vitamins in Europe.

[BuddhaGirl]

129. To my understanding, in Europe

you cannot get Vitamin C., for example, in anything over 500mg without a prescription.

That is ridiculous.

[nam78_two]

18. Seems like a debunked urban legend?

:shrug:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/vitamins.asp

I haven't seen democracyinaction post bullshit alerts before (at least if I am thinking of the right group-I am on too many lists).

[Rainscents]

22. Yeah, this is new alert...

FDA wants info from us and if, we just sit back and do nothing, pharma will get what they want!

[Marie26]

21. It's about time for a Snopes reference.

This is just hysterical fear-mongering.

Urban Legend:

Vitamin See

Claim: American consumers risk losing their right to purchase and use vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements.

Status: Multiple — see below:

* In June 2005 the USA will be forced to accept Codex regulation of vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements: False.

* Bills proposing the regulation of dietary supplements are currently before Congress: Not any more.

Origins: This e-mailed alert began circulating on the Internet in January 2005. Although the call to arms is worded in such a way as to convince those who receive that their right to purchase vitamins, minerals, and dietary supplements in the U.S. is about to be lost to them unless they act decisively in defense of it, it is outdated and the facts of what is being considered by American lawmakers and why are radically dissimilar from the red cape being waved.

First of all, this is another case of an issue that is now largely moot due to outdated information. Back in 2003, two versions of a bill that proposed the regulation of dietary supplements (S. 722, the "Dietary Supplement Safety Act of 2003," and H.R. 3377, the "Dietary Supplement Access and Awareness Act") were introduced to Congress. Neither of these bills was ever voted upon, much less passed. They both expired with the end of the 108th Congress in 2004 and have not been reintroduced to the currently sitting 109th Congress.

Moreover, neither of these items of potential legislation was forced on the U.S. by an outside regulatory body, nor did they say anything about restricting the American public's access to vitamins and minerals. Their sole target was dietary supplements, a class of products that has been unregulated since 1994, when Congress passed legislation that exempted them from federal regulation. Claims that your right to take vitamins and minerals is about to be impaired or that you will require doctors' prescriptions to obtain such products should be regarded as attempts at rabble-rousing, deliberate moves to spur you into action against one thing by convincing you that something very different and far closer to your heart is at stake.

Vitamins and minerals are not under the gun. Dietary supplements are. And no outside regulatory body is behind this move: the proposed legislation is the work of American lawmakers looking to safeguard the public from the unscrupulous and the hazardous. If you take nothing else from this article, take the preceding three sentences. .....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/vitamins.asp

[realisticphish]

29. QED

snopes rules :D

[uppityperson]

25. You can buy vitamins in Europe. I have. Recently. Without a Rx.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. oh good lord

is this bullshit STILL making the rounds?

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

28. Can you believe it?

Two years ago: same poster, same claim. It was thoroughly debunked back then. :shrug:

[Lex]

8. Isn't this "Codex" stuff just BS?

Reeks of urban legend.

:shrug:

[kaygore]

44. NO!!!! IT IS N O T BS or an urban legend

Several of the major alternative health related companies (those not controlled by Big Pharma) have been warning about this for some time. One example is the Life Extension Institute.

I can not stress enough what a threat this is.

Snopes tried to say it was an urban legend, but it is not.

[uppityperson]

56. These guys? Link and info here. (I am not impressed, no cures-all. )

http://www.totalhormonegenetherapy.com/

About Us
he Palm Springs Life Extension Institute is the only clinic in the United States offering the unique form of total hormone balancing therapy patented* by Dr. Edmund Chein, who is known internationally for his valued contributions to hormone research and his pioneering work in anti-aging hormone therapy.

Since establishing the Palm Springs Life Extension Institute in April 1994, Dr. Chein has treated more than 5000 patients. In the process, he has developed the most extensive body of growth hormone and total hormone balancing clinical experience in the world.
Photo gallery Before and After Hormone Therapy


There is NO Cure all for EVERYONE, whether it be by "western" or "alternative" medicine, and all need to be regulated.

[kaygore]

58. Wrong one--http://www.lef.org/

The Life Extension INstitute reports on empirical research on alternative therapies and research into vitamin therapies.

[uppityperson]

63. Thanks, that makes me feel better. That looks like an interesting site, thanks.

off to look. Been dealing with a ND who thrives on 1 diagnoses/treatment for all his patients, am getting really annoyed because I went to him because was tired of endocrinologists having their pet treatment only also. It has opened my eyes to the fact that MD/NDs have similarities in some are great, some good, some not so good.

[kaygore]

70. I like LEF because they report on the hard research

[kaygore]

61. Here are some references

http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=6057&query=codex&hiword=codex%20

http://search.lef.org/cgi-src-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&page_id=2003&query=codex&hiword=codex%20

From one of my Yahoogroups:

April 6, 2007

HEALTH FREEDOM ALERT

Your Action is Urgently Needed



Before I tell you why your health freedom is at serious risk right now and
what you need to do to protect it, I want to thank each and every one of you
who responded so generously to the First Quarter Fund Raising campaign we just
concluded. We asked you to cover our operating budget of $85,000 for the
first quarter of 2007 and you did. The amazing thing is that we raised EXACTLY
$85,000 on the nose. We got donations in odd amounts like $7 and of $11 and
round numbers, too. At the end, the total was precisely an exact match with the
amount we needed. In all my time working with humanitarian organizations I
have never seen anything like this. So a heart-felt thanks to all of you.

If you missed our fund raiser and you want to donate now, that's fine, too.
Just click _here _
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=1&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=189)
(_http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.php?page_id=189_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=2&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.o
rg/index.php?page_id=189) )to make a tax deductible donation to natural
health and health freedom! And thank you!



Houston, We Have a Problem!



The US FDA is at it again. They have been notorious for decades for their
biased attacks and uneven handling of natural, non-drug/surgery/radiation based
health options. This time, though, they are playing for keeps.


The goal is simple: through a "Guidance" about the regulation of "CAM"
(which they conveniently define as "Complementary and Alternative MEDICINE" the
FDA hopes to serve the interests of Big Pharma by eliminating all CAM practices
and products. ALL of them.


Here's how this deadly game is played:



1. By using the term "Medicine" rather than "Modality" for CAM practices,
the FDA sets the stage so that anyone who is not a licensed physician is
breaking the law by using these modalities since they are therefore 'practicing
medicine without a license'.



2. By using the term "treatment" rather than "therapy", the FDA limits those
who can perform these practices to licensed physicians and, again, anyone
who is not a licensed physician is breaking the law by using these modalities
since only licensed practitioners can treat. So people using these modalities
are therefore 'practicing medicine without a license'.



3. By using the terms "Medicine" and "treatment" instead of "Modalities" and
"therapy", all substances, including vitamins, minerals, herbs, co-factors,
etc., automatically become untested drugs since they are being used to
prevent, treat, mitigate or cure disease states. Such use can only legally take
place with FDA approved drugs.



Here's How We Protect CAM Practices,
Practitioners and Products



Numbers. Sheer volume of response. Nothing more and nothing less. NOW is the
time to act. Our window of opportunity slams shut on April 30, 2007.



_http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=3&url=http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc)

That is the link which allows you to send a comment directly to the FDA
about their deadly "Guidance". Will it matter? Yes, if millions of people
respond. So I am asking you to take this "viral".


Here is what you need to do
NOW
if you value your freedom:


1. Click on the link below and add your name to the letter. When you click
"Send" it will be electronically delivered to the FDA docket site and posted.


2. Write a brief note (or copy the information in this email) including this
link , _http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=4&url=http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc) , and mail it
to every one you can. In your email please:


a. Include everyone you know and tell them that their freedom to choose
their own health modalities and options is under serious attack.


b. Send the same email to the the companies which make the vitamins,
minerals and herbs you use and ask them to send it out to their entire mailing list.


c. Impress upon the people you contact that we are facing a virulent and
highly organized assault on ALL natural products and procedures because they do
not feed the pharmaceutical coffers and that their help is crucial.


d. Include a link to the Natural Solutions Foundation website
(_www.HealthFreedomUSA.org_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=5&url=http://www.HealthFreedomUSA.org) ). Ask them to become familiar
with the site in order to lend their support to the health freedom battle
which threatens their right to make their own health choices.


NOW!

If you have ever thought about taking action to protect your health freedom,
NOW is the time to do it.

If you have never thought about taking action, now is the time to think
about it and do it.


In my opinion, this is a full blown assault on your rights and mine to opt
for strategies which use natural options and procedures.

5,000,000

That's our goal. Two weeks, five million comments to the FDA, all asserting
our fundamental right to control our own health.
Can we do it? It's up to you.
Here's the link:
_http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=6&url=http://tinyurl.com/2u7ghc)

The future of natural health and health freedom is literally in our hands!
Yours in health and freedom,
Rima E. Laibow, MD
Medical Director
Natural Solutions Foundation

Help Us Stop Codex!
* _Donate_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=7&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/action/donate.shtml)
* _Buy Codex DVD_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=8&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/aboutcodex/dvd.shtml)

* _Buy Codex eBook _
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=9&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/resources/books.shtm
l)
Visit the _Natural Solutions Store_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=10&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/store)
for supplements and natural medicines. All sales benefit the Natural Solutions
Foundation.
_Click here for a quick Codex Summary_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=11&url=http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/index.p
hp?page_id=157) .
To unsubscribe from this CODEX Action Alert, click on the link below and
enter your email address:
_http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/healthfreedomusa/unsubscribe.jsp_
(http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?key=316457834&url_num=12&url=http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/healthfreedomu
sa/unsubscribe.jsp)

[uppityperson]

72. Terminology, jargon, is meant to confuse and impress.

I really hate the word "modality". As a CAM person (massage) I have learned to hate this jargonistic BS. As a nurse, same. "What modalities do you use?" I am a massage therapist and I use massage therapy. Why not say "type", "kind", etc.

No, "medicine" and "modality" are NOT at all the same. People who tell others, advise others, to use a anything, to eat, drink, ingest, orally, rectally, dermatologically, injectibally, anything to attain a relief or to change themselves IS using medicine. I cannot, as a nurse or lmp, advise anyone to take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning. I should NOT be able to advise them to use unregulated herbal/mineral supplements to treat or cure a conditions as this also is practicing medicine.

If "modality" is used in place of prescribe, I don't care, it is practicing medicine, it is prescribing and whatever is prescribed, whoever is doing it, needs the training and regulation to make sure it is done safely.

That said, I also hate big pharmaceutical companies that really don't give a shit about anything except making money. Buy out smaller places that come up with affordable medicines/treatments that work and then never put the product out for people to use.

[nodehopper]

135. did you actually read the text?

no one is taking your vitamins away. And if the FDA wants to REGULATE herbal supplements, the way they regulate vitamins, meaning that certain STANDARDS have to be met in terms of production and quality of facilities, then awesome. I'd like to know that my Chinese herbs actually contain the advertised product, and that they haven't been sprayed with rat fertilizer.

[MonkeyFunk]

115. yes it is

as has already been said, you can still buy vitamins in europe.

What's wrong with makers of supplements having to certify that what they sell is in fact what they claim it is?

And believe me, the makers of vitamins and supplements are NOT mom & pop operations. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

[Marie26]

9. Good for the FDA! nt

[realisticphish]

16. why is this bad?

if they are treating medical problems, they should be afforded the same regulation as normal medicine. What makes them magical or special, that they shouldn't be regulated?

[Rainscents]

19. If this goes into effect, you can NOT buy vitamins over the counter.

Whatever you buy over the counter, it'll be so water down, it'll be worthless.

[uppityperson]

23. Look up to post #21, SUPPLEMENTS, not vitamins. You can still buy

vitamins otc. Supplements will be regulated. Hey, did you know that you can buy ibuprofen otc too? Even the watered down stuff that means you have to take 3 rather than getting a Rx filled? Over reaction.

[Rainscents]

27. What do FDA consider supplements?

I do NOT trust FDA to do right thing! Vitamin IS supplement, because, you're supplementing what your lacking!

[uppityperson]

33. OMG! So is food, and water! and Air! No, sorry, vitamins aren't "supplements"

vitamins already are regulated. It is stuff in the "supplement" category that is unregulated.

[Rainscents]

50. That's right... that is my point!

[uppityperson]

57. wtf? You are saying exact opposite of what you are agreeing to

(you) "Vitamin IS supplement, because, you're supplementing what your lacking!"

(me) OMG! So is food, and water! and Air! No, sorry, vitamins aren't "supplements"
vitamins already are regulated. It is stuff in the "supplement" category that is unregulated.

(you)That's right.

Now, back to me. Vitamins are regulated, supplements aren't. There was some calls out a couple yrs ago about this and same thing. Supplements, acting as medicine, need to be regulated. Vitamins already are. Based on your definition of a "supplement", even air could be considered that. However, the definitions that are used are: vitamins are already regulated. Supplements are a defined class of unregulated vegetable and mineral things that act as medicine and are unregulated.

[uppityperson]

77. Quick research gives me this definition from FDA on definition of "supplement"

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/dietsupp.html

1994
DEFINITION OF DIETARY SUPPLEMENT

FDA traditionally considered dietary supplements to be composed only of essential nutrients, such as vitamins, minerals, and proteins. The Nutrition Labeling and Education Act of 1990 added "herbs, or similar nutritional substances," to the term "dietary supplement." Through the DSHEA, Congress expanded the meaning of the term "dietary supplements" beyond essential nutrients to include such substances as ginseng, garlic, fish oils, psyllium, enzymes, glandulars, and mixtures of these.

The DSHEA established a formal definition of "dietary supplement" using several criteria. A dietary supplement:

* is a product (other than tobacco) that is intended to supplement the diet that bears or contains one or more of the following dietary ingredients: a vitamin, a mineral, an herb or other botanical, an amino acid, a dietary substance for use by man to supplement the diet by increasing the total daily intake, or a concentrate, metabolite, constituent, extract, or combinations of these ingredients.

* is intended for ingestion in pill, capsule, tablet, or liquid form.

* is not represented for use as a conventional food or as the sole item of a meal or diet.

* is labeled as a "dietary supplement."

* includes products such as an approved new drug, certified antibiotic, or licensed biologic that was marketed as a dietary supplement or food before approval, certification, or license (unless the Secretary of Health and Human Services waives this provision).

So, my take on the vitamin part is that the production of vitamins is still regulated (yes, vitamin factories are watched and have standards), but they fall under the supplement category is labeled "dietary supplement.

[kaygore]

65. This is NOT an over reaction

People need to take this seriously.

[MonkeyFunk]

116. No

they don't.

This is a bullshit claim that's been making the rounds for years.

[Lurking Dem]

108. From the FDA site

What Is a Dietary Supplement?

Traditionally, dietary supplements referred to products made of one or more of the essential nutrients, such as vitamins, minerals, and protein. But DSHEA broadens the definition to include, with some exceptions, any product intended for ingestion as a supplement to the diet. This includes vitamins; minerals; herbs, botanicals, and other plant-derived substances; and amino acids (the individual building blocks of protein) and concentrates, metabolites, constituents and extracts of these substances.

[uppityperson]

117. please see post #77 for the full definition, full criteria.nt

[realisticphish]

26. but

how do you know what you're buying NOW isn't so watered down it's worthless? It's NOT REGULATED. You could be getting powdered chalk for all you know. Natural Medicine companies aren't magically immune from fraud or exploitation of customers.

[uppityperson]

30. shhhhh. But they WORK! because they must! because they cost a lot and have latin names

I am glad to have this stuff regulated.

[Marie26]

31. People have died from these supplements

Because they were totally unregulated, there was no guarantee that the dosage was correct, or that the ingredients were safe. 100's of people died from ephedra supplements until they were finally taken off the market. This is a safety measure. The hysteria seems to be stoked by these "alternative medicine" distributors who are worried that they might get lose money once consumers learn that the "MIRACLE CURE-ALL" pill isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[Rainscents]

36. Yeah, just like pharma drugs... cure for ALL!

:crazy:

[realisticphish]

41. BUT THEY HAVE BEEN TESTED

no one claims that evidence-based medicine has cured everything. But that's exactly what "natural" medicine proponants claim much of the time.

[Rainscents]

46. I almost died 16 years ago from pharma toxic drugs,

If it wasn't for the alternative medicine, I would NOT be here today!

[realisticphish]

49. that sucks

but you know what? most people *gasp* don't die or have significant negative reactions from evidence based medicine. And, there are plenty of people who have died from alternative modoligies.

[sendero]

102. I'll bet you ANY AMOUNT..

... that more people have died from prescription drugs than "dietary supplements".

Any amount you've got. It's not even close, it's not even within an order of magnitude.

I don't worry about this too much because any congressman that votes for this nonsense will be signing his political death warrant.

[uppityperson]

118. Find the numbers, don't think they are there. And, are you saying that

supplements, even ones like ephedra, should NOT be regulated until enough people die?

[BuddhaGirl]

122. more people have died from pharma drugs

than alternative therapies...they are safe when used properly.

Ephedra (ma huang) has been used in Chinese medicine for 500 hundred or so years to treat asthma. I have used it myself with no side affects.

[TZ]

123. want to cite a study on that?

I myself tried ephedra once or twice and had some really scary side effects. I say again herbs are UNREGULATED and therefore no records can be established.Considering that the Chinese have a bad track record with keeping food stuff/environment clean I would say there are a lot of UNREPORTED issues with herbs and supplements.

[BuddhaGirl]

124. check out this article for scary pharma statistics

http://www.wnho.net/deathbymedicine.htm

[TZ]

125. National Toxicology Program

Not sure where you got your "data" from. I don't know the source. I was looking for a comparison. However because there is great concern about your "safe" herbs in the scientific community I thought you might be interested in seeing some of the safety testing that is going on with them. And substances only get nominated for this highly reputable program if enough scientists feel concern is necessary.
Gingo Bilova:http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objectid=07147A76-BDDF-1362-3F2A444D51DE02C2



Echinacea:http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objectid=071422F0-BDAB-221E-5C57077AA2A4AE88

Skutellaria:http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/index.cfm?objectid=BD0FEABA-F1F6-975E-7EC3B1B65AE962BC

[Random_Australian]

126. Oh, dressed up to look all formal. Well, here's one person they won't fool so easily:

1) That is not a publication from a peer review journal, in fact, it's not half as factual as it would like to appear.

Even without "in a telephone survey, 1,207 adults were asked to indicate how effective they thought the following would be in reducing preventable medical errors that resulted in serious harm" and such, it's a little difficult to miss this:

"

ANNUAL UNNECESSARY MEDICAL EVENTS STATISTICS

Unnecessary Events People Affected Iatrogenic Events
Hospitalization 8.9 million4 1.78 million16
Procedures 7.5 million3 1.3 million40

TOTAL
16.4 million 3.08 million

"

And where is the intrernal correlation statistic, I might ask?

(As in, how many times did "hospitalisation" and "procedures" overlap)

It happens all through the article. Straight arithmetic sums. No attempt to make them accurate at all.

Furthermore, did you even check who was originally publishing that crap? Look:

" http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/THE_FOUNDATION/About_Dr_Matthias_Rath/publications/pub12.htm "

Now, play "spot the accounting for correlation/causation error"

:)

And what modesty!

"During his career Dr. Rath has made scientific discoveries that rank among the most important discoveries of all time in the field of medicine.

Most importantly, his groundbreaking discoveries in the field of medicine will improve the health and life of all people for generations to come."

Why is this important? Of course, usually bieng an arrogant prick would have nothing to do with the validity of his arguments, but then look at his 'discoveries'

"Among the discoveries made by Dr. Rath the following rank highest:

1. The discovery that atherosclerosis, heart attacks and strokes are an early form of scurvy caused by a chronic vitamin deficiency of the vascular wall.
Read about it in Dr. Rath’s book ‘The Heart’. (PDF, 1.43 MB)
2. The discovery that long-term vitamin deficiency is also the primary cause of high blood pressure, heart failure, circulatory problems in diabetes and other related cardiovascular diseases.
Read about it in Dr. Rath’s book ‘The Heart’. (PDF, 1.43 MB)
3. The discovery that cancer growth and metastasis can be prevented by the optimum supply of lysine and other natural substances blocking the enzymatic digestion of the connective tissue by cancer cells.
Read about it in Dr. Rath’s book ‘Cancer’. (PDF, 655 kB)
4. The foundation of Cellular Medicine, defining the optimum supply of vitamins and other bio-energy molecules as the medical breakthrough that will allow the prevention, treatment and eventually the eradication of today's most common diseases."

That's right, vitamins are good for you, and they cure cancer. Specifically vitamin C.

Anyway, look at his ideas and look at his references; that is, the person you are relying on quotes references whos data do not lead to the conclusions he makes, for example in his book on how cancer is cured by vitamins, he quotes "reduced mononuclear leukocyte ascorbic acid content in adults with insulin dependent diabetes mellitus consuming adequate dietary vitamin C" (From the journal "metabolism" in the second page of his references for the book http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/cancer_book.pdf )

Furthermore, he states that vitamins are the basis of modern cancer therapies, when in fact derivatives of cis-diammine-dichloroplatinum(II) are! And what's more he states that people do not tell patients that chemotherapy damages all their cells, when in fact they do!

How could anyone trust a proponent of such outrageous falsehoods?

Pah.

[BuddhaGirl]

128. can you find statistics that show

how many people have died from supplements, other than ephedra? I be it won't be as many that have died from pharma drugs.

I would imagine that some of the ephedra deaths were due to people who abused it as a diet/energy supplement. As I stated previously, it has been used in Chinese medicine for over 500 years.

[TZ]

130. thats going to be hard to do

because its not regulated by the FDA there is no database for reporting that kind of thing. I would suspect its MORE than you think. Just as many people misuse supplements as they do OTC's or other drugs which is usually where the problems come in.

[Random_Australian]

131. Actually, the fact that few die from them is evidence AGAINST their use.

Remember, if it has no change in effect over the population, then there is no effect to change.

Simple.

No effect means no point; you are just taking extra drugs.

In other words:

"fewer deaths for the same effect, good, fewer deaths for no effect, bad"

:)

[PVnRT]

127. That's because "alternative therapies" don't actually do anything

Placebos tend not to kill people.

[uppityperson]

60. How many people got sick and/or died from unregulated ephedra?

I tried alternative medicine to treat my thyroid problem and almost died. If it weren't for traditional western medicine, I would not be here today. There is NO ONE RIGHT THING FOR EVERYONE. We are each different and yes, I will be the first to say that traditional western medicine does not work for everyone. BUT neither does alternative medicine. Why do you fear alternative medicine to be regulated?

[Rainscents]

66. I believe 37.

How many people died from pharma drugs each year? Pharma is regulated and still, mass people die each year from drugs and horrible side effect goes with it.

[kaygore]

69. Because this is a ploy of big pharma

Why can't I take vitamins if I wish? If tobacco is legal and alcohol is legal, then why can't vitamins be legal? More people have died from OTC and prescription drugs by many time over those who have had negative reactions to vitamins?

[uppityperson]

73. Vitamins are legal. You CAN buy and take vitamins. Not a problem.

Vitamins are regulated. Supplements are the ones that are not regulated.

[rodeodance]

109. not really. The USDA set daily requirements, but Companies can or can

not put the amount in a certain pill.


Some have more of the daily requirements. some have less or none at all.

[uppityperson]

119. Perhaps monitered would be a more accurate term.

Who makes them, what ingredients are in them (active and extra), how they are coated, what dosage is in each (if it says "xyz mcgm" it needs to have "xyz" mcgms), this is what is regulated. Like aspirin is. Or other medicines. Supplements? Not monitered/regulated like this.

[nodehopper]

137. OMG VITAMINS ARE ALREADY REGULATED BY THE FDA

and yet you can buy them over the counter. the same would happen with supplements. it would ensure quality control, and not make them prescription or whatever it is you are paranoid about.

repeat after me: VITAMINS ARE ALREADY REGULATED BY THE FDA.

[Marie26]

42. Eh?

Is there a point there?

[uppityperson]

43. What pharmacerutical cures all? What one says it does?

No, there is no cure for all, and it is good to get supplements regulated so they don't promote this.

[Rainscents]

52. My comment was sarcasm...

[Rainscents]

40. PROVE IT!!!

Have a link??? Bought into another pharma lies???

[Marie26]

51. LINKS

Ephedra Tied To Pitcher's Death - http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/17/eveningnews/main540848.shtml

Haller C, Benowitz N (2000). "Adverse cardiovascular and central nervous system events associated with dietary supplements containing ephedra alkaloids". N Engl J Med 343 (25): 1833-8. PMID 11117974.

Court Green-Lights Ephedra Ban -

"A federal judge allowed a nationwide ban on dietary supplements containing ephedra to take effect Monday.

U.S. District Judge Joel Pisano refused to grant a temporary restraining order sought by two ephedra manufacturers that would have prevented the U.S. Food and Drug Administration from banning the products.

Pisano's decision does not effect medicines containing ephedra, such as prescription or over-the-coutner cold remedies.
...
Ephedra, once hugely popular for weight loss and bodybuilding, has been linked to 155 deaths and dozens more heart attacks and strokes.

After years of fighting manufacturers over ephedra's risks, the Food and Drug Administration announced in December it would ban sales of the amphetamine-like herb — the first such ban of a dietary supplement — and urged consumers to quit using it immediately.

Research shows the herb can speed heart rate and constrict blood vessels even in seemingly healthy people, but it's particularly risky for those with heart disease or high blood pressure or who engage in strenuous exercise.

Ephedra sales already had plummeted because of publicity about the risks, which peaked after the ephedra-related death of Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler during spring training last year. Three states — New York, Illinois and California — have prohibited the stimulant on their own.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/02/06/health/main598394.shtml

[Rainscents]

53. Yeah, and how many died from pharma drugs?

[Marie26]

54. Now, was that the point?

No - you asked for links proving people have died from supplements; I provided them. Now you're doing some weak attempt to shift the argument.

[kaygore]

68. Ephedra was also in OTC sinus and cough medicine

More people have died from OTC and prescription drugs than from vitamins and supplements. If alcohol and tobacco are legal, then why can't vitamins be legal?

We are becoming a nanny state.

But big Pharma is behind this. Vitamins and minerals are safer and more effective than many of their expensive drugs.

[Marie26]

111. More like consumer protection

The bill to regulate supplements was written & introduced by that well-known tool of Big Pharma - Henry Waxman. Vitamins ARE LEGAL, and are also regulated. The only pills that aren't currently regulated are supplements. The bills, that didn't pass, wouldn't do a thing to make vitamins illegal. Try reading the Snopes reference before panicking.

[Rainscents]

32. I don't buy my vitamins from drug store.

I buy it direct from my natural Dr.

[realisticphish]

37. and where does he or she get them?

unless he/she grows the plants themself, they could be getting ripped off just like you could be. I'm not saying they are, but there's just no way to know.

[uppityperson]

38. vitamins are regulated already, this hysteria is about supplements.

and no, vitamins aren't supplements. They are a different category and ARE ALREADY regulated. Ephedra, L-tryptophan, whatever that liquid fungus stuff is. Those are supplements. Things that would be labeled medicine, except they fall slightly outside the already in place definition.

[truedelphi]

48. But some of us happen to like supplements

There was never an overall problem with L-tryptophan - it was a particular batch that was grown on contaminated GMO material that had the problem. (and it was serious - thirty seven or more people died.) But the genetically modifed food crowd did not want that to get out so the media slammed ALL l-tryptophan.

As far as ephedra = I first started using ephedra about eighteen months before it was banned. I found that I could get to work (graveyard shirt) on one third of an ephedra pill and not have the caustic stomach feeling that I got from caffeine. But so many stupid Americans over dosed themselves on it that that too was pulled.

[uppityperson]

62. There is no 1 right answer for everyone. Medicines need to be regulated

I am not comfortable drinking willow bark tea, but will take an aspirin. If I wanted to make willow bark tea from willow bark I bought in a store, I sure as hell would want to know it was grown, harvested, treated under good conditions and that the dosage I got was what it was supposed to be. I really don't see any problem with having it regulated.

[truedelphi]

78. I agree with your remarks but my concern is that

Big Pharma will do this in such a way that my access is restricted.

Also I object to the pendulum that exists in America.

When I was taking Ephedra - I simply strolled into a drug store with $ 3 or $ 4 and bought it.

Since I am someone who does quite a bit of research before I put somethingin my body, I was nothurt by Ephedra.

But obviously other people didn't share my approach and paid with their lives. So then the government banned it.

Now I can see the reason for some regulation. But I certainly hope we don't get to a point where we need a prescription for evey gram of acidophilus that we wish to consume.

[uppityperson]

80. Indeed.

I hate CAM people/companies that are out for the money rather than actually doing decent work with decent products and they are out there. I hate the part of the legal/insurance system that has made health care almost unaffordable and difficult for providers to be able to do it well.

I also hate big pharmaceutical companies that really don't give a shit about anything except making money. Buy out smaller places that come up with affordable medicines/treatments that work and then never put the product out for people to use. Insurance is legalized gambling, but pharm cos are greed driven machine.

Rules, laws, regulations are there to protect people from the greedy, the nasty, the unscrupulous ones, as well as from their own ignorance, fears, stupidity which each of us is capable of.

I've been in traditional western medicine for 25 yrs, CAM for the last 7 so have seen all sorts of sides in it. Just got back from getting dental work done in Mexico (crowns for $200!) and an acquaintence asked if I was really comfortable doing that because what if I wanted to sue the dentist. Trying to explain that I wouldn't try to sue a dentist, that I find ones that are good and decent and if a mistake is made it happens and he looked at me like I was nuts.

The system has problems. It is cridical! Sky is falling doesn't help though either.

[Djinn]

89. So you're for the legalisation of cocaine right?

I also research before putting anything into my body - I have no problem with taking a small amount of cocaine a few times a year but because some idiots don't think before they indulge, the government bans a highly useful drug.

There is no such thing as "good" or "bad" chemicals. ALL should be LEGAL and REGULATED.

That way some deluded hippy who thinks taking a slug of vitamins/supplements is going to have any effect of them can do so, and I can take clean amphetamines when I want.

[donheld]

39. What is a natural Dr.?

:shrug:

[uppityperson]

45. Naturopathis Doctor, ND.

Just like MDs, some are great, some are good, some not so good.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

47. C'mon, everybody knows Dr Natural

Oh. Wait.

Nevermind.

[progdonkey]

86. it's a common bias in the altie crowd...

Big Pharma is purest evil, and the "natural" practitioners are purest good.

I'm no fan of the pharmaceutical companies by any means (I especially think ads for prescription drugs should be banned, and that's the least of the sins by Big Pharma), but these people who have this irrational hatred of them and their products inexplicably have this huge blindspot when it comes to the natural medicine companies. All a company has to do is call their concoction "natural," and these people will trust it with their lives; but if it's been through numerous tests, quality control, and subject to regulation, it's suspect. It makes no sense.

What's the difference between these "natural" cures, and some random Chinese guy saying, "Eat this tiger penis, and it'll make you strong in bed!" In fact, that's a perfect example of the nonsensical mindset of this crowd: if it were some big fat white guy named Biff saying, "Here, eat this Tiger penis," they'd be horrified at the idea, but give the guy a Chinese accent and exotic shop, and all of a sudden he's an expert in human physiology and medicine. It's no different than hating a drug because it's made in a lab, but willfully taking anything that has all the little meaningless exotic bells and whistles and has the word "natural" on it.

Maybe a few people on this thread should check out the classic South Park episode, "Cherokee Hair Tampons," with the lovely Miss Information and her natural Native American cures. ;-)

[lizerdbits]

121. OMG I love that episode

They had a rerun last week and having visited this forum I was dying laughing.

[SidDithers]

100. So, it will then be homeopathic?...nt

Sid

[nodehopper]

136. um...you do realize that FDA already regulates vitamines, right?

and yet you can buy Vitamin C, regulated by FDA, over the counter! Wacky!

[Marie26]

24. Because they're magical & special! nt

[kaygore]

64. This is a ploy of Big Pharma to outlaw supplements

The problem is that it takes millions of $$$$s to fund research on any "drugs." Most of the supplements have been used for years with no adverse effects. There are no big dollars in supplements, so there is no motivation to put together large "drug" trials.

We are becoming a nanny state. More harm is done by OTC drugs than by minerals and vitamins. If I want to have expensive urine, then that should be my prerogative.

[TZ]

74. So drugs should be regulated but not supplements?

Sheer hypocrisy. And have you ever heard of a pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles named Steve Bechler? He and many others died and/or had heart damage done by the UNREGULATED ephedra. Also FYI- the government is in the middle of years long (pre dating Bush) studies on supplements like ginkova, melatonin, St. John's warts ect to see if they do what they claim. So far most are showing to have NONE of the claimed benefits. They are also part of some long term TOXICOLOGY studies (again pre-dating Bush) because there is starting to be scientific evidence that the overuse of these herbs and supplements can be harmful. This is why the FDA was established in the first place to keep unregulated medicines from making outrageous claims and putting harmful crap in it. If these remedies are so "good" then Pharma companies would do well in selling them their selves, not keeping them off the market.

[uppityperson]

76. Supplements are not regulated. Are supplements acting medicinally?

Then why should they not be regulated.

Vitamins are regulated, so comparing OTCs to vitamins is a non-argument.

[PVnRT]

99. You're right. Why do we need the FDA at all?

Let's go back to the days of peddlers selling sugar water from town to town as "Doctor Midnight's Miracle Cure" while we're at it. No harm ever came of that kind of stuff, right?

There are no big dollars in supplements? Have you heard of a thing called "sports"? I hear it's all the rage now.

[nicknameless]

59. Thanks for posting this.

K&R

[REP]

75. This Just In: Sky Is Falling

[TZ]

79. LOL!

Good one!

[REP]

82. Don't Just Stand There - PANIC! FLAIL! GESTICULATE!

You might not be able to buy tiny bottles of expensive water homeopathic remedies if the FDA regulates quakery natural supplements!

(Full disclosure: I do take chromium picolinate)

[TZ]

84. my sister had an actual MD...

tell her chromium picolinate was okay for an issue, so you are excused...:rofl:

[Random_Australian]

81. Hmmm. Things with potential health effects are to be regulated, even tested. The horror.

Oh dear, oh no.

You mean, like they do with vitamins already, they'll actually have to have standard doses and such? They'll have to certify that the pills were made properly?

But I mean really, who tests drugs for their effectiveness? Why not take random chemicals and hope? (I've got bagsies on that 5 M Sodium Hydroxide I saw yesterday) :)

[realisticphish]

83. i snort powdered chlorine tablets

good for the sinuses

[TZ]

85. I have dibs on

the Methanol that is in my lab! Yummy!:9

on edit (because I refuse to let RA top me) I usually enjoy a good peanut butter and Tris-Glycine "gellie" sandwich as well.:)

[Random_Australian]

88. You say tris-glycine tops peroxydisulfate? That's it: I pick the single most

complicated molecule to be made exactly by man, the one and only palytoxin. To use as snow when I go skiing. And to be made into a jacket for skiing as well. and I'll make the mountain out of it as well.

(LD50 of about 9 billionths of a gram per kilogram as well, IIRC)

Well, that's the most oxidising and the most complex, what are you gonna do now?

(I already have another ready and waiting, though it isn't *that* special, it's just pure evil)

[TZ]

91. you chemists,

can't see the solution (diluent) cause you are too busy looking at the molecules (forest for the trees much too simple). I was attempting to top you punwise with pb and tris-glycine "gellie"! But go ahead fire away with your evilness.:crazy:
I am all ears:)

[Random_Australian]

93. You see, metallic mercury is pretty unreactive. Someone once drank several

kilograms (not that that is much mercury) without suffering much ill effects.

Because metallic mercury is perfectly insoluble. (chemically insoluble, not mechanically)

However, there are certain bacteria that can change it from the metal to a +1 or +2 oxidation state.

In the human body, there is a certain derivative of a vitamin (methylcobalamin) that can, in fact, transfer whole carbanions (CH3 minus groups) to the mercury, making first methylmercury, then the evil chemical in question, that is

dimethylmercury <<<<<<< evil

Properties:

1) Highly volatile: Quickly vapourises at room temperature.

2) Lipophilic (this is important later)

3) Goes straight across the blood brain barrier

4) Accumulates, especially in myelin in the brain (from 2). Almost impossible to remove by any method.

5) Incredibly potent neurotoxin.

In other words, it is death in a bottle. Nasty, evil stuff.

[TZ]

94. well theres a nice thought

actually some other thread two posters were having a bit of a debate on mercury's effects. Also a couple of years ago a high school near me had a couple of kids steal a whole bunch of liquid mercury and splatter it everywhere including taking it home with them. Yikes. The school was closed for months as they tried to decotaminate everything and I remember (this was a poor school in inner city Washington DC) some parents complaining about the length of cleanup...:hide:
btw- good job dude- I have insomnia cause I am nervous about drinking barium tomorrow and you WOULD have to share that with me (although I did ask):crazy:

[Random_Australian]

95. Oh! Oh! I know about the exact barium complex they'll give you!

Oh wow is it cool!

You see, barium free in the body would be almost as harmful as free copper, which kills in tiny doses (the body carefully keeps it inside stable complexes the entire time)

And the barium-with-various-ligands they give you is almost - almost - stable enough that effectively no barium would get loose in your body.

But that wasn't good enough for the chemists, who specifally added large amounts of an unstable iron complex to add enormous amounts of the ligands that barium is using, driving the equilibrium toward the barium complex and making for one hell of a safe mixture.

:patriot: It's awesome. You're so lucky to be living in this day and age, I tell you!

I just have to say, you need not worry about barium. That mixture is cool in the way only science can be - because it works, everytime. :)

[TZ]

96. oh I know its safe.....

here is what I am afraid of with drinking the barium...:puke:
And holding my nose probably won't work...:silly:

[Random_Australian]

97. Ah yes, that is something. Oh well, just try to appreciate the chemistry.

:silly:

Just remember to not think about it for the half hour before - building up negative ideas about it before you even start is not a good idea! :)

[TZ]

114. Its yummy banana smoothie flavored barium!

So now I have to drink all 450 ml of this stuff tomorrow (pushed back) 40 minutes before testing. Bad part- I have to drink it all in 15 minutes. Ack. Okay, mr. chemistry I will try to visualize the chemical make up as I struggle to down this stuff tomorrow. I had my choice of banana, citrus or berry. How yummy! FYI its labeled as Barium Sulfate Suspension (2.1% w/v ,2.0% w/w):9

[dropkickpa]

132. Why can't they do fake chocolate flavor?

That would be loads better than the fruity flavors, I think, they don't go well with the weird thickness of the contrast solution.

Fake chocolate and it would be like thick YooHoo, which I would totally be down with.

[TZ]

133. ever hear of perfume on a pig?

I don't think anything would improve that stuff. FYI- I had to sip that same crap with CARBONATION right before the CT scan.UGGGHHH!
Talk about the ultimate diet drink- one sip and you never want to eat again.....:puke:

[dropkickpa]

134. Carbonated? ewwww!!!

:puke:
I think the texture is almost as bad as the taste, and I LIKE smoothies, there's just something not right about it :shrug:

[Random_Australian]

87. I prefer peroxydisulfate.

One of the strongest oxidants known to man, with a pE of 34.4 .

(pE is a bit like pH, except it measures how good something is with oxidising/reducing rather than bieng basic or acidic; that is, each one step up is a power of ten, and peroxydisulfate is 34.4 steps up from the zero) :)

[Garbo 2004]

90. Actual "guidance" doc link below. Why didn't the site link to it, let people see

what they're being asked to protest and respond to? It's publicly available.

Given the dramatic assertions and claims, one would think they'd be interested in having people actually see for themselves the guidance doc, which is available here: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/06d0480/06d0480.htm

[nicknameless]

92. Thank you for posting that link. .. (n/t)

[uppityperson]

120. Thank you for posing the link.

I bet I will be hearing more of this from people/clients/patients I deal with. And thank you all down here for your postings too.

[PVnRT]

98. The stupidity in this thread is overwhelming

Proving once again that right-wingers aren't the only ones who ignore science and rationality.

[rasputin1952]

103. LOL...Why don't you just call it like you see it?...

Beating around the bush again...tsk, tsk...:rofl:

[PVnRT]

106. I know, I need to learn to be more assertive and direct

At least that's what was revealed to me last night by the mystical entity who did my horoscope in the 7th Dimension.

[rasputin1952]

107. Ther's a discount going on in the 6th dimension, if you

care to drive over there...;)

[TZ]

104. did you see the thread about food irradiation

makes this one look quite tame (zombie bacteria!):rofl:

[Marie26]

112. It really is. nt

[cgrindley]

101. Good

All alternative therapies should be subject to refereed scientific review and regulation. The psychotic claims made by some vitamin and herb manufacturers must be subject to actual scrutiny and the products' reliability confirmed by real testing. All of this half baked non-scientific horseshit has to stop. Too many people are paying through the nose for crap that simply does not work. It's about time the FDA stepped in. They've been negligent not doing it sooner.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

105. Cridical?

Ah, a new word for the DU polidical lexicon.

[jberryhill]

110. Can they do something about the commercials for "Natural Male Enhancement"

WTF *is* "Natural Male Enhancement" anyway?

[Orrex]

113. That's a two-part answer

1. If it worked, the guy would get a big prick.

2. It doesn't work, so the guy is a dumb prick.

[FlaGranny]

138. In case anyone is interested

in exactly how many deaths are caused by prescribed medications, please check out the following. It seems prescribed medications and/or errors in prescribing them are the FOURTH LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH in the US. It's not hard for me to believe, when I've seen more than 60 doses DAILY of various medications prescribed to just ONE elderly patient - and I've seen it happen many, many times. I can't help but believe that this many medications is worse than dietary supplements or no medications at all. I can only imagine the outrage if 1000 deaths were caused by supplements. The medical profession needs to get its act together and concentrate on prevention instead of concentrating on treating disease symptoms.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/drugReactions/default.htm#ADRs:%20Prevalence%20and%20Incidence
---
However, other studies conducted on hospitalized patient populations have placed much higher estimates on the overall incidence of serious ADRs. These studies estimate that 6.7% of hospitalized patients have a serious adverse drug reaction with a fatality rate of 0.32%.2 If these estimates are correct, then there are more than 2,216,000 serious ADRs in hospitalized patients, causing over 106,000 deaths annually. If true, then ADRs are the 4th leading cause of death—ahead of pulmonary disease, diabetes, AIDS, pneumonia, accidents, and automobile deaths.

These statistics do not include the number of ADRs that occur in ambulatory settings. Also, it is estimated that over 350,000 ADRs occur in U.S. nursing homes each year.3 The exact number of ADRs is not certain and is limited by methodological considerations. However, whatever the true number is, ADRs represent a significant public health problem that is, for the most part, preventable.

Edit: Because I left out a word.
---
(By the way, ADR stands for adverse drug reaction.)

[TZ]

139. Tell me how you "prevent" genetic disorders?

Or a bone marrow issue like I have? Diet and exercise have little effect. And I need meds to keep my risk of a stroke down. Yes human error in prescibing meds makes a difference, but supplements either a) have no effect so are useless in treatment or b) are MORE dangerous becuase there are NO guidelines on how they are to be used. Even vitamins can be toxic if used correctly. You get your stats on ADR because the FDA regulates the drug industry. Since supplements aren't regulated there are very likely adverse events that will never get reported because there is no database to collect them.

[FlaGranny]

141. Well, actually,

Sue, my point wasn't that medications are useless. My point was that sometimes too many are prescribed and most of them have side effects, sometimes severe and dangerous. For instance, my husband was taking a medication for his cholesterol, which threw his liver out of whack and gave him bad joint problems and I don't know if they will improve or if he will have to suffer the rest of his life with them. That's only one instance of a common problem with cholesterol medications. Many other meds can cause liver problems. Some medications can cause blood disorders and bone marrow suppresion. Some can cause nasty skin disorders. Medications can cause just about any problem you can think of, some fatal. Many, many medications cause side effects and doctors just give another medication to counter the effects of the first, and so on, until some poor old souls are taking so many drugs, they have no room in their tummies for nourishment.

My other point was that the medical profession needs to concentrate more on preventative medicine rather than concentrating on problems after they develop. Genetic disorders are a bit different and you do what you have to do to control them, but perhaps many of them could also be prevented in the future (stem cell research?).

As a person who has worked in the medical field for many years, I know medications are necessary, but personally, I will not take any drug unless absolutely I have to, as I've had some pretty unpleasant side effects from them. Many doctors are just too quick with the prescription pad. Many problems can be solved with lifestyle changes. What M.D. did you ever see in your life who asked you about your dietary intake, your exercise, and your stress level?

I agree that most supplements are useless, but a handful are already proven to be helpful, and a few are being tested and showing promise. I take my vitamins and minerals and some extra fiber. I try to eat right and stay healthy. So far, so good.

Also, when a supplement causes problems, it's not really very long before you hear about it: ephedra and L-tryptophan come to mind. There isn't an epidemic of illness in people who take herbs and other supplements. If there were the drug industry would make sure it was well publicized.

The worst case scenario for prescription drug manufacturers is a healthy citizenry with no need for drugs.

:loveya:

[TZ]

142. okay sorry, you make excellent points

And I am very lucky that my hematologist is very responsible with me. I was on a med, Hydrea, for about a year and my doctor was very unhappy about it. In fact, he took me off it last July and I did very well until just recently.
Yes, we should emphasize prevention. I talk about exercise and stress isssues with my hematologist quite frequently. But too many doctors just throw pills at people, see Anna Nicole Smith for that!
Smart pharma companies are researching some of these supplements too, to look for potential new ways of treatment (GSK is I think).
I do know that one of my favorite charitable groups Doctors without Borders is constantly complaining about Pharma companies spending too much time on things like Viagra and not enough time on genuine needs, especially in the third world.
If I was snarky, I just have gotten tired of certain folk telling me if I just drink green tea (which does seem to be very healthy, with plenty of anti-oxidants) I will be all better!:)

[FlaGranny]

144. Yes, green tea is

good for ya, but it won't cure anything. ;) What it can do is help give your body nutrients that might help your body heal itself. No matter whether we are sick from an infection or injured, ultimately it is our own bodies that cure us and many times we can heal on our own without help. That's why I believe in supplementing with vitamins and minerals to make sure I get what I need, but there's no need to take huge mega doses.

Pharmaceutical companies would do us all a favor if they would stop their TV ads and stop inventing new diseases to make people think they need their drugs. Their main concern, though, is the bottom line so they concentrate on medications to control disease symptoms and even non-disease "symptoms." Many of these meds are good and necessary, but it would be a lot better if diseases could be prevented.

Don't worry. I didn't really think you were being THAT snarky. Besides, snarkiness prevails around here.


:hug:

[DemExpat]

145. This is basically what my eye specialist told me last week.

Medications are great for short term intervention, but in her opinion they don't heal, they mask symptoms for some and often cause side-effects, so she advises the usual fruit, vegetable and fatty fish diet focus, and a high-quality supplement - not in mega-doses - to help insure appropriate levels of nutrients not obtained from diet.

I seem to be encountering more and more medical doctors here coming around to the importance of more holisitic and "natural" approaches to healing - certainly for preventative approaches, for supportive treatment along with medical treatments, as well as for chronic conditions not helped by medical science.

A very heartening development, IMO.

DemEx

[SarahB]

140. I'm torn on some of this.

Some natural products can be dangerous along with some pharmaceutical drugs. There be something to insure people are informed about risks. For example, taking garlic supplements is fine- safe for most with potential heart benefits, BUT when taken with blood thinners like Warfarin, there can be bleeding complications.

I'm more for stadardization of the industry and better public education- something like "drug labels" along with the products sold.

[Joanne98]

143. They've been trying to do this for years. I don't think they'll make it.

To many Christians sell vitamins..