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Please refute and terminate this "with extreme prejudice".

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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 12:34 PM
Original message
Please refute and terminate this "with extreme prejudice".
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/same-sex-miscarriage/

Here's the first part:

SAME-SEX MISCARRIAGE by David Solway

Just about everywhere one looks, countries, states, provinces, and local jurisdictions are falling like dominoes before the same-sex marriage campaign. Yesterday it was Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Iowa. Today it’s Maine. New York State, Vermont, and New Hampshire are preparing the walk down the aisle tomorrow or the day after. Despite the occasional setback, as in California, the movement appears to be spreading. In Canada, the province of Ontario initiated proceedings in 2001 and the rest of the country followed suit, Bill C-38 receiving royal assent in 2005. The Netherlands opened the dikes in Europe and soon Belgium, Spain, and Norway were flooded. South Africa has taken reconciliation beyond the mandate of its original commission.

The UN’s Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing in September 1995 adopted as its mission the obligation “to break down persistent gender stereotypes.” It has met with great success, extending its reach to take in both sexes. As Alexandra Colen, a member of the Belgian House of Representatives, ruefully commented, “The Beijing agenda has permeated the way our society thinks. … There is no doubt that a planned agenda is being implemented.” While many people, especially on the Left, consider this to be an infallible sign of social progressivism, it more likely than not signifies the opposite, the downward spiral of a civilization in decay.

There is a pungent irony at work in the ostensibly enlightened project of regendering our understanding of conjugality. While “advanced” societies are in the midst of legitimizing same-sex marriages, heterosexual unions are drying up. The corollary is that such societies stand little chance of long-term survival. As for same-sex unions, these have been a fact of mutual existence from earliest times. But same-sex marriages breach the premise of the institution of matrimony, which is propagation and child-rearing, reinforced by contractual security and meant to ensure existential continuance. This is a position that has been eloquently defended by internationally renowned ethicist Margaret Somerville, author of The Ethical Canary and The Ethical Imagination, who has no problem with gay unions but vigorously opposes gay marriage. This she does on the grounds that children require both a mother and a father for optimal development, which includes not only full psychological and emotional growth but responsible citizenship and heed for the future. The alternative is what we can see happening all around us: escalating violence, the onset of communal anomie, and the collapse of standards of personal civility and public decorum, a condition which the damaged institution of matrimony can only exacerbate.

Homoeroticism may or may not be contra naturam — the concept is inherently ambiguous, and, after all, human beings have taken to the skies and the seas though nature has not provided them with wings and fins — but same-sex marriage is plainly contra societam. As such it is not only a contributor to the ongoing debacle but, no less significantly, a disturbing portent of a civilization in free fall, an index of what is coming down the pike. Could we take a step back and refocus our cultural-historical perception of, say, imperial Rome in one of its most depraved periods, we would see that this is exactly the pattern of debasement and excess we associate with a civilization inevitably approaching its end. Certainly, the practice of same-sex marriage is no less a mockery of the social dimension of our existence than Caligula vesting his horse with a consulship is a caricature of the political.

***********

My friend Chris has sent me the following email:

"I do not agree with this. I think, too, this one might become a battle royale, so please add your voices. Please give your best arguments and please try to refrain from name-calling, even though you will probably want to – I want this because I feel the urge to call names in response to this particular piece.

Please bear in mind that the usual readers and commenters on this site are mostly open minded, thoughtful and respectful, mostly. This one will bring out some nasty stuff, I predict, so please don't aggravate it; further, please don't take it as the norm. I believe you will have constructive comments and will help to bring understanding to the majority of readers. (I believe that in this case the act of commenting is more to help educate the lurkers as it is to refute or argue with other commenters.)

Thanks in advance."

***********
Well, I just don't know where to start. The blog is a compendium of every lame argument the nasties have come up with, all dressed up in big, fancy words to make the ugliness sound pretty.

Chris is "chrisintoronto" in the comments. So, what ammunition can you give him? Be pithy. Personally, I don't know why he wastes his time with these people, but...
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ask two simple questions...
1. How EXACTLY does offering marriage to everyone affect EXISTING heterosexual marriages, or threaten to derail future ones?

2. If marriage exists for the purpose of "propagation and child-rearing", should heterosexual marriages where propagation is impossible (sterlization, old age, etc) be barred as well?
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
2. When someone starts talking in Latin, I stop listening. Yep, I'm xenophobic like that.
It doesn't impress me, because as a rule anything put in Latin after 1900 is either a lie, or an attempt to make it or the speaker sound more important than it or the speaker actually is. In this case, both.
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LuvNewcastle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. I hate it when these nitwits
blame gay people for the fall of Rome. As if there were no soldiers to defend Rome because they were all frolicking in the bathhouses with one another. Homosexuality was around thousands of years before the birth of Rome and has been around these last thousands of years since the fall of the Western Empire. Is the author trying to say that the acceptance of homosexuality was the cause of Rome's downfall? Maybe the Vandals and the Huns wouldn't have attacked had the Romans not accepted homosexuality. Or maybe the author is grasping at any factoid he can in order to justify his bigotry.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Rome "fell" 100 years after Christianity became the state religion, and homosexuality became a crime
That's why they try to convince morons that it was homosexuals who brought down Rome, when apparently we were the ones holding it together.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I wonder , If Homosexuality likewise gets the credit
for the defeat of the Persian empire by Alexander?
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Somebody stringing long words together, thinking it makes them sound intelligent.
A false premise cloaked in florid language is still a false premise. Is this person a fool, who seriously believes that straight people are simply going to stop having children, or is he a damned liar who wants to cloak dislike of gay marriage in some pseudo-sociological rationalization?
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. It makes me wonder if we're telling the truth
To listen to some of the heterosexuals talk, male heterosexuals mostly, you would think that heterosexuality is a duty which is to be performed while homosexuality is a vice which would take over if not kept out of sight by law. What if they are correct? What if heterosexuality is a false social construct designed for procreation and child rearing, and equal rights laws for gay people would unleash the inner homosexual of every heterosexual man longing to be free? It literally could rip a hole in time and space.
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. That's a good point. I mean, we all know that heterosexuals don't actually enjoy sex.
Its only something they do out of DUTY. :)
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Duty to the Fatherland. Deutchland, Deutchland, Uber Alles....
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Hey, what the hell happened to your blog?
It was fun to read. Particularly the NSFW parts. :D
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Time.
Been too busy to sneeze, let alone keep up a life and then write a blog about it. :P
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sounds like you need to get out more.
Or at least get out of your pants more.

Okay, I'll stop now before I get the thread locked.
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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Is the author suggesting that heterosexual marriages would be on firmer ground...
Edited on Tue Jun-23-09 02:50 PM by GodlessBiker
if there were no same-sex marriages?

Look at this chart: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923080.html

It shows the divorce rate going down in the United States as same-sex relationships gain acceptance.

It also shows divorce rates to be the highest, in general, in states that are quite "red" and disapproving of same-sex relationships.

Ergo, the author is full of crap.
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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. YET ANOTHER IDIOT talking about society having
a greater right to your reproductive choices than you do. We ARE society. It's not a separate thing, and we are not "owned" by what we collectively form.

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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. I passed some of these quite eloquent comments on to Chris.
I thought that he might want to advance some of them himself under his own handle, but he said that he'd kind of hoped that others would weigh in.

So with that said, feel free to sic 'em! Swamp that forum with your opinions!
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-23-09 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. My comment is awaiting moderation.
:eyes:
The premise of your argument is simply wrong. Marriage and procreation are two entirely different concepts. I’m married without children. I suppose you think my marriage is wrong. OTOH, a lot of people are unmarried with children. And they are not all accidents either.

The statement that hetero couples are drying up is factually wrong and I think you know it. A lot of them are unmarried or are divorced and remarried, but they still exist. As far as our duty to whore ourselves out to the state goes, the world and this country are already grossly overpopulated. And you have no evidence at all that 1. there even is a collapse of civility or that 2. it is caused by gay marriage.

Nothing that happens in nature is unnatural. Even if gay marriage was unnatural, so what? If that is a legitimate complaint, then stay away from modern medicine, food products or really everything produced by civilization. It is hypocritical to complain about unnatural unions on the one had and then demand babies for the most unnatural thing of all: civilization.

Bottom line is your prejudices make you uncomfortable with marriage equality and you are looking for excuses to justify it.

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