Random thoughts on Terri Schiavo, Abortion, etc

[Heddi]

Sorry if this doesn't seem coherent, but I'm just typing off the top of my brain here.

What are the implications of the Terri Shiavo case if the parents were to, god forbid, get 'their way' with regards to her medical care, continuation of life, etc?

I fear that a dangerous precident would be set should that happen. Even if it doesn't happen, I think that the importance of spousal rights is dangerously hanging in the precipice. THIS case is why I'm Pro-Gay-Marriage. THIS is why marriage is such an important 'contract'--the right to make medical decisions on behalf of your spouse in the event that they become unable to make their own medical decisions.

But I fear that after Terri dies...whether sooner or later...we will see a plethora of parents who object to medical decisions made by adult children.

I forsee parents, whose adult daughter or daughter-in-law is pregnant and wants to terminate the pregnancy for any reason. They are hell-bent on becoming grandparents. They petition the court to stop the abortion, to continue the pregnancy. They petition the court for the woman to carry the pregnancy to term and upon delivery, sign over legal custody to the grandparents---hey, if she doesn't want it, WE do.

Or parents who object to their daughter's use of birth control. Or their son's wish to have a vasectomy. Or their daughter-in-law's want of tubal ligation.

Or, god forbid, we have 'grandparents-to-be' who DON'T want their child to have children. Who innundate the courts to FORCE an abortion on a woman or a couple who would otherwise carry the pregnancy to term.

I fear the legal ramifications regarding medical privacy and self choice are just abominable.

I see instances where adult women AND men are questioned legally by their parents or other family members regarding medical care and treatment or services they wish to receive. For surgeries. etc.

Will we, adult women, now have to get Mommy and Daddy's permission before we go on birth control? Before we get a hysterectomy? Before we get breast implants? Before we get an abortion?

and does it stop at Mommy and Daddy? What if they're dead? Do we have to consult every living family member, no matter how distant, before we undergo any medical procedure or treatment? Just in case they 'disagree'?

Are we who are married now FORCED to relay every intimate conversation we have with our sig others to family members---not only so they'll know our wishes are should we become incapacatated, but what types of food we like? where we like to go shopping? our preference for couch fabric?

I'm married. I've had SO many conversations with my husband regarding my future, our future, my wishes for our present and our future, my dreams, my fears, my fantasies, my dislikes...there is NO way any family member of mine, no matter how close they are to me, could EVER know me in the intimate way that my huband does. Even if we WEREN'T married--even if my husband were a woman and I were gay...my mother, my grandmother, my cousins would NEVER know me the way that someone whom I share my life with intimately would know me. NO WAY.

I think this case raises, at least to me, important issues that go far beyond the right to live or the right to die as an incapacatated adult unable to voice their own opinion. I think regardless of your opinion of the Shiavo case, you should really really look hard at the implications that will be made regarding this case, regardless of WHICH side "wins".

[BrklynLiberal]

1. A lot of valid points. I think in this patriarchal, mysogynistic,

Dominionist, Theocracy that these RW Fundies are trying to set up, this will only apply to adult daughters. It is the women they are trying to keep subjugated.
I don't see them pushing for sons having to answer to their parents, only the daughters. Right? Daughters have to get permission for abortionsv or buy birth control pills or an IUD , but sons don't have to get permission to buy viagra or condoms or get that surgery where they can't get you pregnant. (Can't remember the name of it right now.)
EDIT: Got it - Vasectomy.

[Anakin Skywalker]

2. What I Don't Understand Is

why don't the Schindlers just CLONE! (yes, you read that right, CLONE!) Terri already! :)

I am the first to think of this here on DU, so give me my due credit.

[_TJ_]

3. You raise a lot of good points Heddi

But I would be very surprised if the courts ever got involved
in a persons life like this if they were mentally capable.

The Terri Schiavo affair seems like a very rare but very
tragic confluence of events. I would be amazed if it set
any kind of precedent for the reproductive freedoms of
normal people.

At least I sure HOPE so. :)

TJ

[Heddi]

4. I don't know...I'm not so optimistic

I think the extreme right-wing, anti-choicers just SALIVATE at this case not because they have concern for Terri or her wellbeing, but because they see this as the ULTIMATE right-to-life issue---I mean, not ONLY are liberals for killing innocent little babies, but they're actively trying to MURDER an adult woman.

I think they've got something more up their sleeve. Whether Terri passes peacefully in the next few days, or whether her parents get their way and she lingers on for.....ever? I just think that they've seen HOW MUCH attention this has gotten on both sides--how FEVERENT people are about this issue...look, there are people walking around the outside of the hospice center STRAPPED TO CRUCIFIXES.

I see them trying to pull something out of this, above and beyond Terri Schiavo.

These are the people who are so hell-bent on the SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE, yet THEY, in these actions, are destroying the SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE more than 2 million gay couples EVER could. They're undermining the bond between a wife and her husband. They're not allowing a GROWN WOMAN who made a decision regarding her life and death to have those wishes followed through. They're basically saying that there are NO spousal rights if a parent disagrees.

They're making Terri a slave to her parents, even though she's been married for several years before her accident, and 15 years later still married to her husband. The parents are subjugating THEIR wishes above their DAUGHTER'S WISHES. This isn't about what Michael wants--it's what the PARENT'S DON'T WANT, and what they don't want is for TERRI'S wishes to be fulfilled. They even stated in court that had her wishes been in writing, they STILL would have prevented the removal of feeding tubes/life support.

The fundies aren't ones to let go so easily. Regardless of the outcome of this case, they're not going to just lie down afterwards and let this tragic case dim in the sunset. oh no. They're planning....and I don't know what they're planning but it makes ME shiver just thinking about it.

[_TJ_]

5. Everything you say is true

These maggots have absolutely zero respect for the rights of
women. If they had their way I honestly believe women
would be reduced to the status of property.

But there are laws in America yet, and they will have to tear
them all down to really get what they want. They probably have
more power now than they could have ever dreamed of, but still
it won't be easy for them to destroy those rights.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for now.

[skygazer]

6. I think you're too complacent

I think Heddi has made some very cogent points and that these are things we should all be concerned about. Take the case in Ohio where a man who was up on felony domestic violence charges successfully argued to get the charges reduced to misdemeanor assault - the argument used was that the new amendment to the Ohio constitution banning gay marriage prohibits any state or local law that would "create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals."

What has happened in that case is that a law specifically designed to prevent one thing (gay marriage) has been successfully used to undermine yet another right, one that was not foreseen by many people (though perhaps by the framers of the amendment). By presenting only the narrow view of these amendments and laws, they chip away at other things at the same time and people don't realize it's happening until it already has.

I fear for our future - we are taking giant strides backwards in both civil liberties and gender equality.