Pacman Jones suspended for all of 2007 - How will this affect other sports?

[Poiuyt]

The Titans Pacman Jones was suspended for all of 2007 and the Bengals Chris Henry was suspended for the first 8 games.

http://sports.excite.com/news/04102007/v7195.html

It seems the new NFL commissioner is going to be taking a hard stance. Do you think that Bud Selig and David Stern will follow suit? What if Bud Selig decided to get tough and suspend Barry Bonds? (BTW, the ruling body of Track & Field took away a world record in the 100 meters from Tim Montgomery with only circumstantial evidence, so Selig would have some precedence).

[nickgutierrez]

1. Incredibly dangerous precedent.

First - I'll be watching the inevitable legal challenge with great interest. It probably won't happen right away, for Henry or Jones, since the court of public opinion has already come in so loud, vicious, and clear on those two. But let's say somebody gets four games, and the charges end up being a case of mistaken identity, or the player being blamed for something he clearly did not do. I could see a defamation of character action being brought against the league for the suspension, with the player recovering his lost wages plus quite a bit extra.

Quite frankly, I think the new rule is indicative of a certain trend toward vigilante justice that is starting to take hold in this country. We don't need a guilty verdict, it says, because we know he did it. So, let's just punish the guy and get it all over with.

Convicting an innocent person is a thousand times worse than letting a guilty person walk, because in the former case, you are depriving a citizen of his fundamental rights as a human being, for the sake of holding him responsible for something he is not responsible for. Vigilante justice - and this disastrous new policy - ignores this. They're more interested in looking strong, in making a point to those uppity players, than any concept of truth or justice.

The thing that horrifies me, above all else, is that nobody else is saying what I just said. It's an awfully one-sided debate, yet I know I can't possibly be alone. Actually... I'd be interested to see what Dan LeBatard has to say. It's weird - I don't like the guy, personally, but I agree with just about everything he says. I suspect he might say something similar, too.

[LisaM]

3. I think if I had ten run ins with the law

I would consider myself lucky to be suspended from my job for a year, then hired back. It's not as if everything they have on the guy is pure speculation.

[nickgutierrez]

4. One thing we don't have: a guilty verdict.

Nobody, in any of these cases, has yet taken the role of a trier of fact in a court of law and said that yes, he did these things beyond a reasonable doubt. Could he be guilty? Sure. I'd even say probably, on at least one or two of them. But I can't decide until I hear both sides of the case - and criminal charges are, by their very nature, one-sided.

[LisaM]

5. I didn't say he should go to jail

But if I were arrested repeatedly, particularly if I was a representative of an organization that paid me in the millions, I don't think I would be able to keep my job. Heck, companies won't even let women take a year off to have a baby with a guarantee of getting their job back.

Pacman Jones was warned last August that he would be held accountable for his frequent arrests. BTW, I don't know that most people who are arrested for drinking or fighting in public get a court trial.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2560810

[nickgutierrez]

7. Maybe a decent compromise...

...would be to set it up so that these suspensions would be put in place by an arbitrator, rather than the commissioner. The commissioner would still have the power to invoke the rule, and to call for the arbitration hearing, but putting it in front of the arbitrator would more or less eliminate the possibility of a power-hungry commissioner doing whatever the hell he wants for whatever reason.

[LisaM]

9. Well what's wrong with Pacman Jones anyway?

Why can't he stop getting arrested?

[nickgutierrez]

11. He's an idiot who surrounds himself with other idiots.

But you still can't have an unchecked commissioner with the power to hand down these kinds of suspensions. The suspensions might be justified this time, but who's to say they will be in the future?

[Mike Daniels]

8. I don't think most people who get busted for fighting or drinking in public contest the charges

Kind of hard to claim you weren't doing either of those particular offenses if you were caught.

Drinking or even drunk in public - I know you can just walk up to the courthouse and pay the fine (no need for a trial whatsoever).

Fighting in public - I don't know if that's a walk-up and pay fine or if you have to go to court on that one. If you go to court I imagine that the majority of those cases are held strictly in front of a judge.

[rinsd]

10. Defamation of character? Uppity players?

Were Henry and Jones leading a charge against the NFL in regards to minority hiring or the pension system that I must have missed?

Seems to me, they're two overpaid douches who think they are way above the law.

"Quite frankly, I think the new rule is indicative of a certain trend toward vigilante justice that is starting to take hold in this country. We don't need a guilty verdict, it says, because we know he did it. So, let's just punish the guy and get it all over with"

The Court of Opinion has been with us for quite some time now.

The NFL is tired of its image as the National Felon League (a good book is your interested). The Bengals had 11 players arrested just in the last year. The league is tired of teams looking past players questionable(at best) off field activities because of their on field contributions.

You think if Pac-Man was a 3rd round draft pick who was a backup, he would even still be employed? The league has had to act because the teams have failed to.

[northzax]

14. but Pacman Jones is not simply an employee

he is a member of a union that has signed a collective bargaining agreement with the League that has good conduct clauses in it. the groundwork for these suspensions are laid out in agreements between the NFLPA and the NFL, the CBA specifically states that the player must inform his team of any arrests while under contract, no matter the result of those run-ins with the law. Jones failed, on at least two occaisions, to do so. this gave the League the legal standing, under the contract he signed, to suspend him. he'll appeal, but he will lose.

on edit: one arrest simply isn't going to get you a harsh punishment, if you are facing major legal troubles, you can certainly take a leave of absence from your team to address them (much as your job might) Jones and Henry have a demonstrated pattern of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Frankly, clubs have a major investment in such players, especially since the majority of pay for such players is in guaranteed, upfront signing bonuses. think of it this way. Your boss signs you to a five year contract, and basically pays you for 4 years upfront, she's got a good reason to make sure you are available to work in 2009, right? I mean she's already paid you.

[erpowers]

2. With or Without Pay

I think the suspension of Pacman Jones could be a good thing if he is suspended without pay. If he still gets paid than it is worthless. He would get a year of pay without having to do any work. In football I think that would be a good thing considering how hard football can be on the body.

I do not think Selig or Stern can be this tough in that the unions are too strong in MLB and the NBA. In addition, the seasons for MLB and the NBA are much longer than the season for NFL. The NFL plays 16 games while MLB plays more than 100 games and the NBA plays about 82 games. Suspending someone for that long in the NBA could be considered a bit harsh and I think money is guaranteed in the NBA so a player would just be getting a paid vacation. I think being able to earn $5, $10, $15, or $20 million in a year while staying home and screwing your women, or being able to travel the world would be a great thing for any basketball player. I could be wrong and the guaranteed money make not carry over to suspensions, but if it does than a year long suspension would not be a good thing.

On the point of Barry Bonds he has never come close to testing positive for steroids so he should not be suspended. It would be very wrong to suspend a guy for a whole season if he did not test positive for a banned drug. Pacman Jones is being suspended because of the things he actually did not for things it is rumored he did.

[Awsi Dooger]

6. NFL suspensions are without pay

That's been the policy in every one I remember. I'm sure Pacman will not be paid for 2007.

Here's the delicious irony from the standpoint of a Canes fan: The two top cornerbacks in the '05 draft were Pacman Jones of West Virginia and Antrel Rolle of Miami. Rolle was generally rated slightly higher on ability, plus he had more versatility to play safety.

When the Titans took Pacman ahead of Rolle (pick #6 to Rolle going #8 to Arizona), the Tennessee organization and many draft analysts whispered they preferred Pacman partially because he was a more reliable person off the field, since Rolle had an incident early in his senior year involving a police officer. Turned out the initial reports of that incident were severely overblown but they were included in every scouting report of Rolle.

[rocktivity]

12. Jones' off-field conduct has included 10 instances in which he was interviewed by police...

But many of these interviews turned into actual arrests, and how many of those have turned into convictions? (Gets off shiftless lazy ass and does her own research):

...Jones is already subject to league suspension for not telling the Titans about a pair of 2006 arrests in Georgia, which violates his contract's personal conduct clause.

...Jones is set to appear in a Fayetteville, Ga., court in mid-May for a February 2006 incident in which he was charged with felony obstruction of police for biting an officer between his thumb and index finger. The police had sought to question him while he was sitting in a car outside the home owned by his girlfriend's parents. A marijuana possession charge from March 2006 in Georgia was dismissed in January.
(link)

...Of (the ten) incidents, five resulted in...(Jones') arrest...

If prosecutors in Nevada do file charges against Pacman Jones (he) could also face charges in Tennessee from an earlier event...(He)...made a deal...that charges would be dropped as long as he could stay out of trouble until July 5th.

The NFL player also faces unrelated charges in the State of Georgia...
(link)

So Jones has two cases pending? What's going to the cutoff point for the NFL--how many police interviews/charges/convictions before you're out?

:shrug:
rocknation

[MrSlayer]

13. This particular guy should be in prison.

And I'm not so sure he won't be after the videotapes come out. Henry too, had many arrests and needed to be made an example of. The NFL can't afford to have people like this fucking up their image as they expand their empire. MLB Baseball and NBA Basketball aren't even close to the brand the NFL is today so they'll probably tolerate more.