Just had a Thought

[BeFree]

I've had many thoughts over the years and some of them actually helped produce something useful out of matter that was lying about.

But this thought I just had.... it matters, but is has no matter in its construction.

Now I've got a headache. <grin>

[Jackpine Radical]

1. No matter.

Never mind.

[BeFree]

2. Never mind?

No, it was because of mind. Never mind would lead to no thoughts.
If there was never a mind would there ever be any thoughts?

And can a thought be thought of to contain matter?
If not, is a thought anti-matter?

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Where is Random Thoughts when we need him?

Perhaps he has gotten the beer and travel money he is due.

[BeFree]

4. Heh.. are ya missing him/her?

I cheated. This OP is in response to this linked thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=271972&mesg_id=271972

After having read 90% of it... I had a thought. Just some background in case you're interested.

[Jackpine Radical]

5. I was just taking all this pretty lightly.

In the vein of MIND, which is defined in the old saw as "a British philosophical journal, entered at the Post Office as fourth-class matter."

[BeFree]

6. Well

You would.

Someone of your elite caliber and woodiness; such things may never faze you.
But to those in the lower worlds such matters carry some weight?

The idea being that there is more to life than that which is matter.

[Jackpine Radical]

7. I wouldn't necessarily make assumptions about my beliefs

or practices if I were you.

You never know--I might turn out to be some sort of crazy pagan/buddhist type who has a sense of connection to a larger consciousness in the universe but recognizes the futility of discussing matters such as that with people who do not have such perceptual experiences, and doesn't particularly enjoy wordy debates about personal experiences that produce feelings of awe but defy analysis or coding in human language. And maybe I've had a lifelong attachment to the natural world because I find that contact with that world greatly facilitates an awareness of oneness with the universe.

But these only a possibilities, of course. Most likely, I'm just another reductionist materialist like you imply.

[BeFree]

8. Eh?

Well, the ""...a British philosophical journal,.." bit does leave some room for petard hoisting.

But you are right, thoughts leading to assumptions about posters should not matter and in utopian fairness do not.

Still, what matters is: what is matter? Since we know matter and we know thoughts are not matter, but do matter, then what do thoughts consist of?

Thoughts matter even though they are not matter. Right?

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Are you familiar with the writings of Amit Goswami?

He is a physics PhD who postulates a physical system in which matter is secondary to mind. His model seems to resolve certain long-intractable problems in the conventional model.

[BeFree]

10. No, I hadn't

But some may argue, if there is no physical mind to manufacture a thought... there can be no thought.

What comes first? The mind or the thought?

[Jackpine Radical]

11. That is a statement of faith.

Why must matter precede mind? Why can't mind be primary and matter secondary? Read Goswami.

Here is the Amazon blurb on Goswami's Visionary Window:


Does God exist? Can spirituality be integrated with science? Is happiness possible? Do miracles really happen? Not only does The Visionary Window answer " yes" to all of these questions, but it skillfully combines the fields of philosophy, cosmology, religion, and psychology to form a new way of thinking about science and spirituality. Stepping beyond the classic work of prominent seventies physicist Fritjof Capra, Goswami details his own pioneering exploration of science and spirit, revealing the complete integration between modern science and spiritual traditions. Using stories and colorful examples from pop culture, Goswami addresses complex issues in language and terminology easily accessible to the lay reader. He provides quantum physics-based theory and new experimental data verifying the metaphysical truth that exists when employed in the context of a new science, science within the primacy of consciousness. With a new holistic worldview, Goswami also discusses the creativity of the body to self heal; the power of spiritual practice and how to choose a meditative path; and the five stages of spiritual growth, culminating in the ability to transcend the physical laws of nature. Readers, scientists and spiritual leaders alike will find answers to many of life’s deepest mysteries.

[Angry Dragon]

12. Thoughts are energy

If energy contains matter, then yes..............

[BeFree]

13. Maybe....

..just maybe, matter is matter because thought made it matter?

The only real frame we have is the time frame.

All matter at one time was not what it is today.

[BeFree]

14. I should say

The matter we see today, will in the future not appear to be the same at some point in time.

And at one time did not look like it does today.