The Declining Influence of God

[BridgeTheGap]

Writing for Religion Dispatches about the debate between the Christian faithful and the so-called New Atheists, Davidson Loehr suggests that the “controversy” feels stale and uninteresting. He notes that the Christian church doesn’t represent a pivotal element in many American lives anymore:

Christine Wicker, author of The Fall of the Evangelical Nation, and David T. Stone, author of The American Church in Crisis, are among the authors citing research that shows a dismal picture of American religion:

http://www.utne.com/Spirituality/Christian-Church-in-American-Life.aspx?utm_content=06.11.10+Spirituality&utm_campaign=Emerging+Ideas-Every+Day&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email

[dmallind]

1. ...and yet strangely the very title is biased the other way

To presume to speak of the influence of "God" is to not only take as axiomatic that theists are right and atheists wrong, but that a specific subset of theists have it right and everyone else is wrong.

God has no more influence than Conan the Barbarian. It is the influence of those who believe in gods that is the question.

[rrneck]

2. The greatest threat to religion

is not secular humanism, atheists, satan, communism, socialism, or modern life. It's sports. You can get the same thing from doing "the wave" at a baseball game that you get from religion. And everybody can wear a special hat if they want to.

[groovedaddy]

3. Not to mention imbibing their favorite spirits! n.t

[humblebum]

4. This subject has been addressed before in history:

Is the Position of Atheism Growing Stronger? By Joseph McCabe (1936)

“No wonder they hated and libeled Russia! For the news is spreading, and is triumphing even over reactionary opposition that Russia is doing the finest and soundest reconstructive work of our time, and it is doing this, not only without God, but on a basis of militant Atheism.”

[trotsky]

6. And indeed it has.

More Americans identify themselves as non-believers than any other time in the past. In Europe, countries either have large groups of non-believers in their populations, or even - gasp - a majority! In such abusive and terrible countries like Sweden and Denmark. :sarcasm:

McCabe had nothing to do with it, though, as much as you LIVE to disparage non-belief.

[Cleobulus]

7. Plus it was in 1936, McCabe wasn't the only admirer of the Soviet Union, is this poster...

going to disparage, let's say, Helen Keller? At the time, the abuses of the Soviet state were largely unknown outside it, or haven't taken place yet. People saw a country that dissolved a tyranny, and they were perhaps too optimistic, but this was a time when capitalism was at its lowest point, revolution was in the air, even in the United States, and there was reason to be optimistic, at least at first. I find it ironic that we mythologize the Czarist state today, when the regime there was extremely oppressive, impoverished millions, and considered itself God ordained.

[trotsky]

8. Great point.

People forget there were active Socialist and Communist parties in the US at that time - no, they weren't necessarily atheistic, and no they didn't want to imprison or kill believers. They had seen the worst abuses of the capitalist economy and wanted solutions and/or alternatives.

Some people though love to be "faith fibbers for Jesus."

[Cleobulus]

9. Such as Francis Bellamy, Baptist Minister, author of the Pledge of Allegiance, and Socialist.

I do find it somewhat ironic that it ended up being adopted, in the original version, at first(no under God), and only changed later to distinguish the United States from the Soviet Union.

[humblebum]

11. Actually, to be a member of the Communist Party required one

to be an atheist. One of the irrevocable principles of Marxism.

[trotsky]

12. Actually, you are wrong.

But that's never stopped you before.

http://www.cpusa.org/faq/

What about the Communist Party and religion?

Communists are not against religion. We are against capitalism. In fact, the Party has its own Religion Commission which seeks to build positive relations with religious people and communities in the struggle to make life better for working people. Most religious people believe in justice, peace, and respectful relations among the peoples of the world, and many are motivated by their faith to work for those goals.

Membership in the Communist Party is open to all who agree with our program, regardless of religious beliefs.

I eagerly await your admission of error.

[humblebum]

13. I am referring to the Marxist Communist Party during the Soviet era

which also had card carrying members in the United States and many other countries. Not all communists are Marxists. There are even Christian Communists. But to be aligned with the Soviets, who were Marxists, in that era meant to be an atheist, if you belonged to the Party.

“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion”
(Karl Marx)

Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

[trotsky]

15. So yep, you were wrong.

And now you're moving the goalposts as usual.

[humblebum]

16. Pretty obvious what era we were talking about. I think you moved the goal posts.

you have a habit of that when you get yourself cornered.

[trotsky]

17. Just another Faith Fibber for Jesus.

I showed you were wrong, that's good enough for me.

[humblebum]

18. Um. You showed you own ignorance. That's for sure. nt

[trotsky]

19. It's fascinating watching you become so un-Christ-like when you get shot down.

Just bitter, angry, lashing out, insulting, downright nasty. Jesus must be so very proud of you!

[humblebum]

21. Now, now, now, if I hurt your feelings I'm sorry.

[trotsky]

23. You make baby Jesus cry. n/t

[humblebum]

10. Helen Keller was hardly an admirer of militant atheism and yes,

the bulk of the abuses had taken place by 1936 and word of what was happening was out. William Henry Chamberlin had already written several primary source books on the subject, the forced famines had already taken place, the League of Militant Atheists had existed for almost 2 decades, the first 5 year plan had transformed the country, and Trotsky had been exiled - so yes many of these things were largely known.

[Cleobulus]

20. Why do you confuse the communism with militant atheism?

Helen Keller WAS an admirer of the Soviet Union, she wrote about it herself, and she was a Communist as well. This has NO REFLECTION on her religious beliefs.

[humblebum]

24. Helen Keller wasn't a communist nor atheist. She was a socialist.

Big difference. And I am not confusing militant atheism with communism. One is anti-religious, the other anti-capitalist. But it is a fact of history that Soviet Marxist Communists were admittedly militant atheists. That doesn't mean that all militant athbeists are communists.

[laconicsax]

14. Come on trotsky...

Everybody knows that Sweden and Denmark are two of the most repressive countries in the world. In fact, the only country that is harder on Christians is the United States. Why just recently, a huge statue of Jesus was burned to the ground in Ohio.

[laconicsax]

5. So magic is less effective than in the past?

:shrug:

[saltpoint]

22. Is it still currently so that megachurches are increasing their

numbers of congregants and that mainstream Protestant and Catholic churches' congregations are shrinking?

There are churches in our neighborhood with two or three services a week. They have a school, a day care place, and who knows what else.

A farmer's field used to be there where the megachurch complex stands now. I sure liked it better when it was corn and soy beans.