"God's been so good to me. God's blessed me abundantly."

[raccoon]

(Heard that on a local radio station today in a sermon, which I don't usually listen to but I was trolling for another station since the radio station I usually listen to is driving me nuts with Xmas music.)


If a person actually believes that sort of thing...then what happens when their good job goes overseas? When their spouse/child develops a terminal illness? When their family loses their health insurance? ....and so on.

By the logic, if I may use the term, of the quotation, then those bad things indicate that:

"God's been so mean to me. God's cursed me abundantly."


:shrug:

[YOY]

1. Then they blame "liberals". Even if the evidence is not in favor of this.

Haven't you been paying attention the last few years?

If it's good, it's somehow because of God and the GOP and if it's bad it's because of minorities, people of other religions, and liberals.

I'd put a smiley on it but it's gotten painfully obvious.

[fasttense]

2. Don't you know God controls our economic system and carefully doles out wealth

only to the most deserving. See if you rob a bank and get away with it, it is because God has decided you are deserving. If you murder your over-insured wife and get away with it, it is because God has decided you are deserving.

No matter how you come by your wealth, no matter how sinful and corrupt you continually act, if your are wealthy, you are blessed personally by God.

Wealth makes you better than anyone.

That is the message of Jesus Christ.

:sarcasm:

[Cirque du So-What]

3. Google the term 'prosperity theology'

It may be one of the most effective 'tools' for organized religion to recruit fresh suckers.

[donco6]

4. God never gets the blame.

They would just say, "When God closes a door, he opens a window." Even Sarah Palin knows that, silly! >wink>

[Meshuga]

5. I would love to see the person answering your question

I mean, the person who made that claim.

My friend's grandmother went into a depression thinking her 'sinning' killed my friend's father (her son) with a sudden heart attack. That's one response there. But there are people who will rationalize bad situations with the 'God is testing us' or with the 'It is time for God to have my spouse next to Him in heaven' or whatever.

In any case, it would be interesting to see the response from the person in regards to what is the theology involved when bad things happen.

[raccoon]

8. In this case, the sermon was a recording from a minister now deceased.

But I too would like to hear what somebody who says that would say when bad things happen to THEM. Probably something like the examples you gave.

[Chulanowa]

19. "God loves me so much that he's testing to make sure I love him back"

Religious people are weird. :shrug:

[phantom power]

6. Well, you know... "God is testing me" and...

"God never gives anybody problems that they can't handle."

[raccoon]

10. Man, I can't stand that platitude--and it's so untrue.

"God never gives anybody problems that they can't handle."

[tularetom]

7. A kid got buried in a trench collapse a few days ago

He was rescued due to the efforts of his cousin, the fire department/EMT's, the sheriff's department, the medical transport helicopter and the emergency staff at the hospital. But if you read the story in the newspaper, the family felt all that was pretty much superfluous. In their minds, the only reason their son was alive was thanks to God. There were a half dozen references of gratitude to the G man in the story, and no acknowledgment of the taxpayers who funded all these emergency response agencies.

Yet if the kid had croaked, it would never have been God's fault. The response was too slow or inadequate, the EMT's were inexperienced, whatever, but Gid had nothing to do with it.

[raccoon]

9. Same as when some people survive a car crash, or something similar:

"God had his hand on me."

What about the unfortunates who die in car accidents, etc.??

[struggle4progress]

11. It being Thanksgiving week, perhaps this thread deserves "Selfless Gratitude"

Through the mindfulness practice of gratitude, you are able to rejoice amidst all life's suffering.
By Philip Moffitt

... Gratitude is the sweetest of all the practices for living the dharma in daily life and the most easily cultivated, requiring the least sacrifice for what is gained in return. It is a very powerful form of mindfulness practice, particularly for students who have depressive or self-defeating feelings, those who have access to wonder as an ecstatic state, and those with a reactive personality who habitually notice everything that's wrong in a situation ...

Practicing mindfulness of gratitude consistently leads to a direct experience of being connected to life and the realization that there is a larger context in which your personal story is unfolding. Being relieved of the endless wants and worries of your life's drama, even temporarily, is liberating. Cultivating thankfulness for being part of life blossoms into a feeling of being blessed, not in the sense of winning the lottery, but in a more refined appreciation for the interdependent nature of life. It also elicits feelings of generosity, which create further joy. Gratitude can soften a heart that has become too guarded, and it builds the capacity for forgiveness, which creates the clarity of mind that is ideal for spiritual development.

Let me be clear: The practice of gratitude is not in any way a denial of life's difficulties. We live in troubling times, and no doubt you've experienced many challenges, uncertainties, and disappointments in your own life ... Death is certain; your death is certain; the time of death is unknown; the time of your death is unknown. Rather, gratitude practice is useful because it turns the mind in such a way that it enables you to live into life or, more accurately, to die into life. Having access to the joy and wonderment of life is the antidote to feelings of scarcity and loss. It allows you to meet life's difficulties with an open heart. The understanding you gain from practicing gratitude frees you from being lost or identified with either the negative or the positive aspects of life, letting you simply meet life in each moment as it rises ...

http://www.yogajournal.com/wisdom/722

[darkstar3]

12. Selfless Gratitude is a crap doctrine, regardless of its origin.

It places the reward for good things on the shoulders of others while placing the blame for bad things squarely on your own. It's the perfect road to depression.

[Meshuga]

13. I didn't understand the text provided in the same way

The article seems to be more about an exercise in positive thinking in order to achieve well-being than anything. That's why I am not quite understanding where "rewarding for good things" and "placing blame on one's shoulders" would fit. For example, in context with the text presented, who would be the "others" being rewarded for the good things?

[darkstar3]

14. Gratitude is always focused onto someone or something else.

You "give" gratitude, and under any normal circumstances you do not give that gratitude to yourself. Since gratitude is all about positive things, you are therefore being grateful to someone or something else for the good things in life. That someone or something could be God, karma, the Universe, or anything else, but the bottom line is that you take no internal credit for the things you do well in your own life.

Meanwhile, while another entity is getting the credit for the positive things or successes in your life, where does the credit (usually referred to as blame) for the bad things in your life fall?

Most Christians I know practice the doctrine of Selfless Gratitude. The idea is that only God can do good things in their life, and when bad things happen they can blame only themselves for not being good enough in God's eyes.

This concept leads to a perpetual cycle where you constantly treat yourself as if you are unworthy, and incapable of doing anything good on your own. I can think of no greater cause for depression.

[Meshuga]

15. But I don't think that is what the article is addressing

I understand what you mean about being grateful to someone and blaming oneself for the bad things but I don't think this is what the article (or the series of articles) is advocating or even suggesting.

Of course, a person can always be grateful to someone or even to herself but that is besides the point here. The goal of the exercise proposed by the author seems to be "finding something to be grateful for" to lift yourself up and get yourself through life rather than finding someone or an entity to be grateful to. And blaming oneself (or others) for bad things would obviously not be a component here either. I'm sure the author would view this as a counterproductive approach that would defeat the purpose of what he is proposing.

There are studies linking "grateful individuals" to greater degrees of happiness, reducing stress, reducing depression, and to the individual being able to maintain an overall sense of well-being. You don't need someone else or a supernatural being to follow this route. And I could see this exercise being useful in meditation and therapy.

[darkstar3]

18. I understand the article,

but I disagree with a couple of things you've said here.

First, I don't think it is really possible to be "grateful" to oneself. I think it is only possible to happy in the decisions you have made and the outcomes that have been brought by those decisions, but I do not think it is possible to self-grateful.

I know that you're trying to say that this is beside the point, but I don't believe it is, and here's why:

"Finding something to be grateful for" still focuses on external causes for the good things in our lives.
"I'm thankful for the weather."
"I'm grateful to my family for all they have given me."
"I'm grateful to my boss for the wonderful raise he gave me this year."

Every sentence I've ever heard uttered or read in print that began with the phrase "I am grateful" focused on some external provider.

I think it is healthier to find things in your life to be happy about. Achievements you've made in the last year, successes you've had at work, at home, or in games and sports. It all comes down to the same concept of "focusing on the positive", but when you can take pride in a job well done or a game well played, then when the chips are down you can remember that you are still the same person who accomplishes things, and you will accomplish things again.

In my mind, it's all about self-esteem.

Make any sense? :shrug:

[Meshuga]

24. Actually,

I think you are right about being "happy with decisions you have made..." being more appropriate to say than saying one is "grateful to oneself". But going back to the subject we are discussing...

Perhaps you don't believe the "grateful to" is "besides the point" because of your background (I am assuming, of course) but I can see it being "beside the point" and realizing the author also sees it this way. And I mention background here because I was never taught by my parents or family to believe that what happens in my life is purposely influenced by a supernatural being. For example, saying "thank god!" in my family never really had supernatural connotations. It was just an expression. So maybe that's why I don't see the big deal in saying I am grateful for good things that happen. And that's probably why I have no beef with the article.

If I don't believe in a supernatural force influencing my life I can still say, "I am grateful my healthy child was born without any complications." I understand there are many parties who deserve my gratitude, and these include the team of doctors, my wife taking care of herself during the pregnancy, etc. But it doesn't matter who gets credit in the exercise proposed by the author of the article because, by following it, I would be searching for reasons to be grateful and not looking to assign credit. If I am going to assign credit as consequence then I hope I will be fair to those who deserve my gratitude but that is beyond the scope of the exercise. :-)

But the whole point of the exercise (as I understood it) is looking to say things like, "Shit, I am grateful for being able to realize that this terrible thing is happening so I can think of ways to help myself pull through..." The focus is on looking at the bright side of things especially when bad things are happening as opposed to rewarding and assigning blame.

Like you, I think it is healthy to find things in life to be happy about and what you said with the examples you gave makes sense. But I think it is just another good methodology toward wellbeing that can co-exist with being a grateful person.

[darkstar3]

25. "Well spoken, sir."

I'm not sure I agree with you, yet, but well spoken, nonetheless.

[Jim__]

17. Interesting article. Thanks for posting. - n/t

[stopbush]

16. Xians never stop to think that the flip side of, "there but by the grace of god go I"

is, "there by the grace of god goes that poor SOB!"

[FiveGoodMen]

20. Verily!

[immoderate]

21. He'll fuck you up.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20109&version=NIV

--imm

[Blue State Blues]

22. From experience with people who spout those sorts of sayings ...

Some believe in a god who is capricious and must be placated constantly -- they must always be thankful, must always find the glass half-full, or else what blessings they do have will be jeopardized to teach them a lesson.

Some believe in a god who is all powerful and yet is insecure enough to require constant, unquestioning adulation.

Some believe in a god who is older than the ages, and yet somehow not enough of an adult to be able to take criticism or questioning or anger at the manifest unjustness in the world.

If they read the Bible, it also means they have managed to read the Psalms and somehow not notice that the psalmist spends at least as much, if not more time, on complaint than praise.

It is a juvenile sort of faith. Then again, they appear to take great comfort in their style of faith. And not all of the "God's been good to me" sayers are the selfish god-blesses-me-but-not-you types of people. Some of them are, but others are the pillars of the community, the first to volunteer to help a neighbor or even a stranger in need.

And for some people, it's just a culturally-reinforced habit of speech ... a reminder that for all of the things in life that aren't what they would wish, they can be thankful for the good things in their lives.

So I guess I don't really have a point, just a few mildly incoherent observations.

[gorfle]

23. They can rationalize anything.

Recipe for people who talk to invisible men in the sky:

Anything good that happens to you was God's blessing.

Anything bad that happens to you was just God working in mysterious ways to really help you.

[humblebum]

26. And you wonder why atheists are so popular?

SARCASM

[mrbarber]

27. You are suggesting that external issues can effects someone's inner peace.