I suppose I should apologize for the Ash Wednesday post.

[BurtWorm]

I'm still very interested in an answer, but I guess I phrased the question insensitively.

[Avalux]

1. I didn't read your post.

But I'm willing to give you an answer to whatever it was if you want to ask again. :hi:

[BurtWorm]

4. Well thank you. I appreciate that.

I'll try to ask it in a more serious way this time.

I wanted to know, if you observe Ash Wednesday, how it feels to have the mark of ash on the forehead--how it feels when you're away from the church and in the public square. Are you self-conscious? Are you proud?

[Avalux]

9. From personal experience....

When I was a kid it wasn't anything I thought much about. We would go to church and get ashes after school, so I never went to school with them. I can remember forgetting they were on my head and wiping my forehead, then looking at my hand in terror because I accidentally rubbed them off. It's a big no-no to wipe or wash them off. I also remember it meant I couldn't eat meat on Fridays for awhile and had to give something good up for lent.

The priest applies the ashes in the shape of a cross and says "for dust you are and to dust you shall return". It's a repentance thing.

As an adult, before I became severely lapsed, same thing. Never thought much about it. I had bangs to cover them anyway so they weren't noticeable. ;-)

When it's something you've done every year from as long as you can remember, there's no self-consciousness about it. :hi:

[BurtWorm]

12. I just realized who you were.

No wonder this avalux is such a sweet person!

:hi:

[Avalux]

13. Awww.....

thank you! :hug: Hope I helped with the explanation.

[BurtWorm]

14. You did.

Expertly.

:hug:

[Goblinmonger]

15. I didn't see the prior post either

but it is a valid question. Back in the day when I was Catholic, I grew up in a very Catholic community so it was no big deal. The non-Catholics knew what was up and never made a big deal out of it.

[BurtWorm]

16. Thanks. I do think it's valid.

I probably should have used more tact--not said "schmootz," for example. ;-)

The deeper question is about how one's religion interacts with one's secular society--really, the sorts of emotions that interaction evokes.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. My experience too

Mostly Jewish and Catholic.

Protestants, now... they were the exotic ones.

[JerseygirlCT]

23. Having grown up R. Catholic in an area that was pretty much all

RC or Jewish, it usually just felt normal - everyone else at my (Catholic) school was similarly marked. There was also, to be honest, a bit of a sense of belonging. You were literally marked with your faith.

And you're really supposed to be a bit self-conscious about it - or at least thoughtful. It's a visible sign that's meant to make you mindful.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. It's not an issue for me

I sing in the choir for the evening service, so I go home right afterward. We sing Allegri's "Miserere" as the other people are receiving their ashes, and then it's our turn.

I've never attended a daytime Ash Wednesday service since becoming an Episcopalian. (Lutherans observe Ash Wednesday, but without the ashes.)

[AlphaCentauri]

38. I'm proud of my faith thanks to the catholic church

I may not agree with some other catholics opinions, but ash Wednesday just reminds me of the fragility of humans.
Like many rituals in the church ash Wednesday stimulate us to do good before we became ash.

[T Wolf]

2. It did freak me out a bit going home last night to see all those people "marked" by gawd.

And some of them looked so normal...

[BurtWorm]

5. Where do you live?

I live in NYC, so the marked ones arefairly rare. But one of my coworkers had a very large, thick dark spot on his forehead. I made a conscious effort not to look at it or talk about it. Some other wags were less inhibited. I imagine he must have heard the "Hey, you've got some kind of shit on your forehead," joke repeated over and over.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I don't know what you posted either,

but if you ask your question again I will try and answer it.

[BurtWorm]

7. You don't celebrate Ash Wednesday do you, ayesha?

It's not a Muslim thing, too, is it?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. No

it's not even a Protestant (or at least Methodist) thing :) I have studied major religions, and thought if it was an informational question I might be of service. If your query was directed at those who participate in the ritual, then that explains why I didn't answer the post.

[EFerrari]

6. Are they using more ash than usual? Most of the time,

it comes off pretty shortly and you forget it's even there. I grew up in a Catholic neighborhood and don't remember people walking around with a bunch of ash on their forehead.

[BurtWorm]

8. Do you know what the ash symbolizes?

I don't remember. Is it based on some part of the Easter story? Like palm sunday relating to Jesus's riding into Jerusalem? Is there an ash-related story this date refers to?

[EFerrari]

10. I honestly don't remember. I'm going straight to hell!

[BurtWorm]

11. Wikipedia shalt savest thou, child

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_Wednesday

[Goblinmonger]

17. It isn't supposed to be washed or brushed off.

It should be there for a bit. Depends on the priest. Some put is on like Tammy Faye put on make up and others just lightly make the cross. Had I actually become a priest, I would have been the lay it on type.

[kwassa]

18. You suppose? or do you really care about the way you said it?

you set up your OP to pass judgment on those who observe Ash Wednesday.

[BurtWorm]

21. Are you passing judgment on me?

:o

I'm shocked.

My OP was a question that may have been insensitively phrased but that I was sincerely interested in. I'm always interested to know what believers think.

[Meshuga]

20. The "Jewish beanies" question would be valid too

I am sure there are Catholics who feel funny leaving Church with ashes on their foreheads in a similar way that they would feel funny not having it on if they were at the service.

I see a similarity to Jews wearing kippah since you see people who would not wear it outside of the synagogue but they would feel funny not wearing it at shul.

[BurtWorm]

22. I think it's an interesting distinction, that line between the sacred space and the profane

and what happens to the person psychologically when they cross that line--especially bearing signs of the sacred. That's what my question was about. I guess I asked it in too profane a way. ;)

[JerseygirlCT]

24. At my nephew's bar mitzvah, my BIL

(not Jewish) was loudly and soundly criticized by the rabbi when his fell off while he was dealing with a child. (Yeah, I really don't like that woman. And they hollered at you to sign along, but didn't bother handing out the music...) So I guess in that case, even if you weren't Jewish, you'd feel strange there without your kippah...

[BurtWorm]

26. At the last bat mitzvah I went to, in a conservative temple

the main rabbi was mildly roughhousing (if you can imagine that) with his son (while a guest rabbi led the service), and he accidentally knocked the boy's yarmulke off. I was expecting some kind of look of horror on the rabbi's face, but he didn't even bat an eyelash as the boy took his sweet time retrieving it and putting it back on. Made me think the commandment to keep it on the head in the temple is not quite as dire as I thought it was--at least not for this conservative rabbi.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. Yeah, I think this was really more about control

she really isn't a nice person, from what I've seen... And I've never seen treatment like that before. We're just through all of the bar mitzvahs for this generation though. No more parties until someone gets married!

[Meshuga]

30. Next time you have a chance

Ask this rabbi her view on Talmud Shabbat 127a: "Welcoming guests is more important than spending time with God!"

[JerseygirlCT]

31. LOL!

Well, I'm rather hoping that the next time I see her will be one of the nephews' weddings... and since they're not even in college yet, I think I'm safe for a few years.

But I'll try to remember that!

[Meshuga]

29. I agree

In some synagogues even non-Jews feel strange without a kippah. Some congregations are just ridiculous in the was that its members are so proud to follow ritual commandments but ignore the ones that tell them to act with kindness.

I've had my own share of bad experiences and in those cases I just took my business elsewhere. :-)

[JerseygirlCT]

32. Yes. You hit the nail on the head. That was it, exactly

They were so busy proving to themselves how wonderful they are, and how observant of their traditions, and how great that guitar and singer were and how terrific they all are for singing out loud...

That they made absolutely sure that those not usually part of their gatherings were made to feel quite outside of the in crowd.

Which is peculiar at that sort of event - you think they'd always know there would be "outsiders" there - friends, extended family from out of town, etc. Everywhere else, it's been a very welcoming experience.

Oh well. Nothing really to be done. Just venting, I guess!

[Meshuga]

33. Were they playing guitar on shabbos?

And if the answer is yes, did they actually have the balls to give someone a hard time for a falling kippah? I mean, what a bunch of morons!

[JerseygirlCT]

34. Oh yes...

And yeah, I know. My nephew is a sweet, sweet kid. And he's quite serious about his faith. So it was wonderful to watch him, after all his preparation. (I wouldn't be in the least surprised if he becomes a rabbi himself).

But other than that, we all couldn't get out of there soon enough. (And I felt guilty a few years back and told my ILs to sneak out before the second half of a 2 hour service at Easter vigil for my son's confirmation... Three hours being basically harangued in a freezing room sure was worse than that, lol!)

[Meshuga]

35. I took a different approach

I was a member of a conservative synagogue until recently and the people were nice for the most part (except for the ones who liked to show off their piety while making you feel like you were not pious enough) and the rabbi was really nice guy but the services were from 9:00 to noon. I didn't leave early but showed up after 11:30 so we got to hang out with friends afterwards. :-)

[JerseygirlCT]

37. LOL. There you go!

Three hours is a bit much, I have to say. Were children part of this? I cannot imagine getting mine to sit through more than an hour every week. (This week the older kids were doing a 30 hour fast while raising money for hunger, and the younger ones weren't offered a snack at church school before the service. Boy, was he grumpy!)

[Meshuga]

39. They had babysitting

And a small half hour kids service where the older kids ran the service with the help of a teacher. Most of the time we would just attend the kids service because it was fun to watch. :-)

[Marrah_G]

36. It was pretty rude. Glad you apologized.