Atheists do not believe in anything!

[usregimechange]

Anyone ever hear that?

It dawned on me just how absurd that "reasoning" is. It makes no sense to accuse atheists of not believing in anything when the definition of atheism (or at least strong or positive atheism) is based on a belief that God does not exist. If they believed in nothing they would not be atheists.

[The Straight Story]

1. what does 'belief' mean anyway

:shrug:

[Warpy]

3. Something you think is true despite a total lack of evidence for it.

Atheists just look at the lack of evidence and say "no thanks."

[immoderate]

23. I would simply say...

Something you think is true, or so.

I don't think the nature of the evidence, or lack of it, is relevant.

--IMM

[Warpy]

26. Not quite.

I am typing on a computer. I don't believe I am typing on a computer. I know I am typing on a computer because I have the evidence right here.

Were I to say I know fairies exist, I would have no evidence for it. It would be a belief, not a fact.

Get it yet?

[lib2DaBone]

27. No.. you lost me. Please expand on what you were saying...

[trixie]

54. How about this:

All religious people are athiests to all other religions than their own. Correct? A evangelical is absolutely certain that Islam, Shinto, Catholicism, Buddhism etc is not real. Correct? So according to Islam he is an athiest.

Now take that athiesm of others and add your own religion and that is what I am. I just add one more. We are all athiests but I don't buy your theory either. I, of course, am speaking to a person who believes in a God or The God or whatever.

[immoderate]

45. The words are not mutually exclusive.

Can you say you don't believe you are typing on your computer while you are typing on your computer? Isn't a duck also a bird?

Beliefs are generally applied to notions that are arguable, but not necessarily without evidence. I believe that George Bush is the worst president ever. You can't say there is no evidence for that. Yet, both Harding and Buchanan have their adherents.

As an atheist, I believe there is no god. I have lots of evidence for that. Of course, that depends on the definition of god. Some types of gods are easily refuted. Others, not so much. I think you are confusing belief with faith.

--IMM

[moggie]

51. I disagree with your definition

Are you familiar with the epistemological definition of knowledge as "justified true belief"? You know that, if you turn the faucet on your kitchen sink, water comes out. How is this knowledge?

* It's justified: if someone disputed your claim about the faucet and water, you could explain the principle by which the faucet works, and point to your long experience of turning it and seeing water come out.

* It's true: it is indeed the case that turning the faucet allows water to come out.

* It's belief: you hold the statement "turning the faucet allows water to come out" to be true.

If someone claimed that turning the faucet releases demons, that wouldn't be genuine knowledge, because it would fail on the "justified" and "true" parts. If you're about to roll a six-sided die, and claim that you know you'll roll a 3, that's not genuine knowledge, even if you turn out to be right, because your "justification" won't stand up to examination.

The difference between your computer and fairies examples doesn't lie in the "belief" aspect, but in the other two.

This definition of knowledge does have problems (see wikipedia for "Gettier problem", for example), but I don't see any good reason for making belief imply lack of justification.

[Warpy]

2. Dictionary definitions calling atheism a belief

are undoubtedly written by believers who are incapable of wrapping their brains around a LACK of belief.

Calling atheism a belief is like calling not playing soccer a sport.

[usregimechange]

5. It should differentiate between types of atheism, because positive atheism is a belief

[rgbecker]

7. I'm positively an atheist, believe it.

[Marr]

37. Positive atheism would be the extreme end of the spectrum, and I've met

very few people who fall into that category. I've noticed a real widespread inability among the faithful to tell the difference between the person you describe and the standard, "I have no belief in a deity" atheist. They almost always seem to interpret the latter's statements as categorical assertions that their god does not exist.

[usregimechange]

38. That is likely true.

[rgbecker]

6. Once again, I come to DU to find the truth and succeed!

Right on, Warpy.

[MineralMan]

4. I don't "believe in" any damn thing.

That's a silly expression. Some things I do believe. I believe things that have some rational basis.

But "believe in" is nonsensical. You either believe something or you do not.

[physioex]

8. I am surprised you talked about....

Atheist without mentioning reasoning. I would rather learn about how our universe works from the likes of Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Issac Newton.

[cyborg_jim]

43. I'd rather learn about how the universe works from the universe

[Titus Andronicus]

9. I'm agnostic on this Atheism thing.

[HeresyLives]

10. I don't think pink unicorns exist either.

Or fairies, or elves, or pixies or leprechauns or probably a thousand other things I've never given the slightest thought to.

Is this a belief system, or a series of beliefs? No.

[GoneOffShore]

11. Are there atheists in foxholes?

Of course there are.

[Silent3]

41. But are there foxes in atheist holes? n/t

[JVS]

12. we believe in nothing lebowski

No Donnie, these men are nihilists.

[HeresyLives]

15. Nihilism

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position that argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Nihilists generally assert that objective morality does not exist, so subsequently there is no objective moral value with which to logically prefer one action over another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

[lib2DaBone]

28. I think I see what you are saying.....

but I lose context when you talk about 'subjective' vs 'objective'. Wordsmith? What is the meaning of 'subjective' vs 'objective' as related to belief?

[HeresyLives]

30. It means atheists aren't nihilists.

Different kettle of fish entirely.

[Forkboy]

13. I find that rather hard to believe.

[Arctic Dave]

14. Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Any takers?

[Lex]

16. Atheists believe in reason.

Religious people believe in faith.

[TexasObserver]

22. True. Atheists believe in reason

Religious people believe in faith.

Faith is believing in something you KNOW can't be true. Virgin birth. And such.

[Gwendolyn]

17. Of course it makes no sense to accuse atheists of not believing in anything.

Atheisim only describes the part of what a person ISN'T, that is, a believer in the concept that a supernatural being created us.

It doesn't describe what we ARE... the belief system we subscribe to, which could be anything from humanism to nihilism to existentialism, and including a myriad of others in between.

The mistake is in thinking that atheism is a religion in and of itself. It's simply a component. No one would say that a christian shares the same religion as a muslim, even though adherents of both believe in a supernatural creator.

[Cleita]

18. They believe they are right and every one else is wrong, who

doesn't believe as they do. That's what I've found anyway.

[immoderate]

24. Yeah, but that's only because it's true.

:)

--IMM

[enlightenment]

34. Would that be the atheists or the religious folks?

Because your statement applies to the religious just as easily.

[Cleita]

35. It applies to both. They share more similarities than

opposites.

[nodster]

42. No, that's just what you wanted to find.

Because atheists have the gall to combat those who TRULY believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. Atheists dare to hold theists accountable for their extraordinary claims, and that offends you.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. However, many atheists here say that is quite true

in respect to God. They don't like the term "belief" because that implies something they don't have and (correct me if I'm wrong please) something they feel is illogical and unreasonable to have. I have been told that they prefer "worldview", though some like the term "God concept" as well. I do try to accomodate, as I feel this shows respect and an attempt at understanding how they think about suce things.

[Odin2005]

20. No, Atheism is the LACK OF BELIEF in god,

But theists somehow take this wrongly to mean that we must be nihilists, which is wrong and insulting. I'm an Existentialist and a Secular Humanist. "Atheism" simply means the lack of belief in God, nothing more, our positive affirmations come under other labels, such as "Humanism".

Calling Atheism a religion is like calling "bald" a hair color.

[skepticscott]

21. Why do people swallow this fundamentalist crap?

Here is: The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles, which are adhered to by many (though not exclusively) atheists.

We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=affirmations§ion=main

It defies comprehension that anyone could read this and claim that atheists "believe in nothing"

[HeresyLives]

25. Well, that's very nice, but

it's also secular humanism, not atheism.

[Gwendolyn]

31. It's not simple to grasp.

Atheism is not a belief system or religion in itself. It's a word used to lump all kinds of people together who have varying world views but who share a common disbelief in supernatural dieties.

Of course, they aren't empty vessels and among this group of people, some enjoy a very spiritual outlook, while others have a more intellectualized vision of existence. Many Humanists for example, embrace atheism into their belief system. But while we call ourselves Humanists, Theists refer to us as Atheists, because it's difficult for the believers in the supernatural to conceptualize the idea of ethics outside the realm of divine authority.

[htuttle]

33. Please describe the difference

[dmallind]

46. Humanists have a manifesto (above). Atheists do not

Secular humanists are a subset of atheists (there are a small number of non-secular Humanists) who agree to the principles of Humanism posted above. Not all atheists do. I have a problem with one or two of them myself, although I very much agree with the general gist. Hence I am an atheist but not a Humanist.

[Gwendolyn]

47. But you have your own set of beliefs.

Of which atheism is a subset. You simply can't live without your own moral, ethical code. Not believing in the supernatural isn't the end all, be all, of what you do believe is your ideal for living.

[dmallind]

48. Sure - but we all choose our own

For example I would clasify as an act/rule utilitarian as far as moral philosophy goes, a Logical Empiricist as far as basic approach to reasoning, and so on.

Other atheists could be hedonists and Nihilists, or anarchists and Existentialists, or pure act utilitarians and Humanists, and so on.

There is no unifying belief shared by all atheists except their lack of belief in gods. There IS a unified belief shared by Humanists - their manifesto. Hence the difference.

[Gwendolyn]

49. But that's my point.

There is nothing unifying in claiming all atheists are alike. Spilling every atheist into a stew is the same as saying all orthodox Jews and new agey Christians are the same because they they believe in a supernatural being. Atheism is just one ingredient that many people who otherwise have nothing in common, share. Those who believe in a supernatural being, don't get that. They would though, if everyone just started calling them monotheists, and claimed all Christians, plus Jews are the same as Muslims. Or pick a combo. :)

edited for typos. I'm sure I missed some.

[dmallind]

52. Maybe we're trying to make the same point in the end.

All I was doing was pointing out the difference between Humanists and atheists, in that Humanists have a unifying manifesto and atheists do not. Since you obviously agree with the latter, and it's difficult to disagree with the former since they post it on their website exactly AS a statement of their beliefs, I would say that the difference is then clear, which is why I got into this thread.

[skepticscott]

36. And as I said

many secular humanists who subscribe to these principles are atheists, but not all. To make the blanket statement that no one who is an atheist believes in anything is simply idiotic on its face, for this among many other reasons. Atheism itself is not an all-encompassing worldview, the way that Christianity is for most fundies, and it need not justify itself as such in order to be valid. Most bashers of atheism are completely unable to grasp that simple concept.

[IDemo]

29. An unprovable concept can't be reasoned away, but it can be dealt with intelligently

The burden of proof for any extraordinary claim, whether it be by free energy adherents or theists, lies entirely on those making the claim. If my belief system does not include your infinite miles per gallon car or your god, feel free to convince me, using scientifically provable arguments. But don't tell me I am practicing a religious belief by failing to adhere to yours.

[htuttle]

32. I wish that logic 101 was a required course in high school

:eyes: :shrug:

[bemildred]

39. Critical thinkers don't believe in anything either.

Oddly enough, that doesn't seem to have any pernicious consequences, unless you have some religious nut trying to "convert" you. And it can have positive effects on your life. And you won't fall apart without some sort of "belief system" to prop you up. Nothing happens. It's just simpler.

[FarCenter]

40. I don't believe in 5000 lb gorrillas, i.e. King Kong

But these are all special cases for the general proposition that not all things which can be spoken of in language correspond to things that can be observed or deduced from common shared experience, i.e. which exist.

[cosmik debris]

44. We are all atheists to some extent.

Unless you believe in every god ever imagined.

And the OP is just pointing out another stereotype used to denigrate atheists so that they are easier to hate and discriminate against.

[ZombieHorde]

50. "Atheists do not believe in anything!" - I don't believe that.

[Deja Q]

53. Do you really believe that?

:rofl: