The mormon church is a terrorist organization.

[arbusto_baboso]

Sound like an exaggerated statement?

Consider mormon history.

on 09/11/1857 (ironic date, eh?) Mormons committed the worst terrorist act on American soil, until the Oklahoma City bombing. Google Mountain Meadows Massacre if you don't believe me.

Brigham Young preached death for miscegenation, and actually had young men castrated for offenses against the church. The Danites (or Avenging Angels as they are sometimes known) would track down and kill apostatsizing church members, or those who revealed less-than-flattering details of the underbelly of mormonism.

It wasn't until 1978 - when, bowing to federal government pressure - that a Mormon "prophet" had a revelation that black male members should receive the priesthood in their church.

One recent prophet of the mormon church - Ezra Taft Benson - was Secretary of Agriculture for Eisenhower and considered him "soft on communism". Benson was a member of the John Birch Society, and has been quoted as having said, "It is impossible to be both a good Democrat and a good Mormon".

The history of mormonism is one of violent extremism.

Their all-out support of Proposition 8 is just further demonstration of that fact. Let's spread the word about what bigoted, racist, homophobic a-holes this church and its members really are!

[Not Me]

1. Like Al Capone...getting them on tax charges would be more efficient

nt

[amdezurik]

2. While I hesitate to brand every Morman

the ones who claim to horrified at how their "church" has used and abused the process (this time anyway) I do not see why they should continue to reap tax benifits.

[arbusto_baboso]

3. My wife and I used to be mormons...

She was raised in it, and I converted to marry her.

Thankfully, we learned about that "church"'s history several years ago, and left it and never looked back.

So, yes, I'm not painting all mormons with the same brush, as many of them are good people. But the ignorance and cognitive dissonance among the membership is truly astounding. They believe everything their "leaders" tell them, because they're told that's what it means to be a good mormon.

But far more frequently nowadays, being a good mormon and being a good person are very much at odds.

[amdezurik]

8. I just gotta ask...

what is up with the "holy underwear"? And grats on getting out of that mess :) (pun intended LOL!)

[kestrel91316]

12. Temple garments, they call them. "Garments" for short.

NEVER ever supposed to remove them, even to bathe (they partially remove them to bathe but always keep contact with them. Not sure how the heck Mormons shower without soaking their garments........

Not supposed to remove them for sex, either. How romantic (they are like long johns with separate top and bottom, are white, and extend past knee and elbow.

[amdezurik]

14. so many religions turn to self-hate

as expressions of "faith". Self-flagellation adn wearing hair-shirts. That always made me wonder why people were willing to believe that the god who supposedly made them hated the bodies he supposedly gave us.

[arbusto_baboso]

15. Only the true mormon extremists never remove them for bathing, sex, etc.

Not so many of that sort around anymore.

[Gwendolyn]

31. That just seems so unhealthy. I'm thinking fungal infections. Yuck. n/t

[olegramps]

34. We lived in Salt Lake City and my mom told this:

My mom and dad were Catholics. Dad was transferred to Utah. My mom saw the woman next door hanging out her wash and she said that she was shocked that they couldn't afford new underwear since their's was so worn that it had big holes in it. She laughed herself sick when she found out about it being their holy underwear instead of their holey underwear.

[conscious evolution]

39. They used to be god

Now they are just holey.



Badaboom ching!Thank you very much.Next show is at 10 and don't forget to tip your waitress.

[aska]

40. silly story

With silly stories like yours floating around the net it's no wonder that it's faddish to pick on the "Mormons". Maybe it's time for Mormons to start speaking up for the truth about themselves in forums such as this one??

Active temple worthy Mormons wear white "garments" beneath their street clothes to remind them of sacred covenants they made with God. That's similar to articles of clothing worn by orthodox Jews and some other religious groups.

Today's garments are not like long johns and they do not extend past or even to the elbow. Mormons remove their garments and wash them the same as everyone else treats their underwear. They swim in ordinary swimsuits and play sports without wearing garments. And, sorry to burst your bubble, Mormons shower naked, just like everybody else. (Except of course for a shower cap to keep their horns dry.)

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aska]

52. Is that a threat?

Those are harsh words, please clarify. Is your statement intended to be a threat to me or my family or to any other individual or group?

I'm new here, does this person have immunity from board moderation, or is this kind of statement acceptable on DU?

[Ian David]

53. No, it's not a threat. But you do not belong on this message board.

You are not a Progressive.

So, save all of us some time and just go fuck off.

[YOY]

50. Oh you're just regular folks darnit!

Except the bigotry and the bullshit.

The "keep your kids away from non-Mormon's" kids.

The insular community to the point where it's actually anti-social yet civil at the same time...kudos for that.

The constant Republican voting.

The racist up until the 70s and constantly sexist bullshit.

The baptizing folks who you have no goddamn right to baptize.

Oh darnit! You're just regular folks!!!

Yeah...horns huh...I knew a Jewish girl who said that Mormons seemed to think she had them.

[yardwork]

51. What is a "temple-worthy Mormon?"

And if only temple-worthy Mormons are allowed in the temples, how did those godless queers get close enough to vandalize one of your sacred temples?

[TexasObserver]

54. 1) has paid their tithe, 2) kissed the right asses, and 3) hates gays

They've gotten rid of 4) hates blacks and 5) loves to marry pre pubescent girls.

[Sheepshank]

41. couple of corrections

We used to call them 'garmies' for short. And while some did not take them off to bathe or have sex, I don't remember that being the norm. I do not remember the sleeves extended to the elbows. More closely described as 'cap' sleeves for women, and about the lenth of a t-shirt for men. I left the cult about 20 years ago, and I don't think garmies have changed to cover more of the body since I left.

[arbusto_baboso]

13. As with everything else in mormonism, it's a "borrowed" concept.

It's got masonic symbols on it, and nowadays it's touted as being a "protection" for the member against the evils of the world, and a reminder of one's temple covenants.

The reality behind it is that the super-secret magic Jesus jammies were once a recognition sign for those who practiced polygamy. See, the early mormon church denied that it practiced polygamy for some time, and even concealed that fact from much of its membership until they migrated out to Utah. The undies were the "pass key" to the celestial swingers club, basically.

[amdezurik]

17. heh I still have my Playboy Club card (from long ago)

I MUCH prefer that :)

[TexasObserver]

55. Everyone who isn't Mormon knows Joseph Smith stole the symbols and rituals from the Masonic Lodge.

But every Mormon I've ever attempted to discuss the history of LDS with has either been completely ignorant about it, or didn't want to hear about it. They're allergic to history and knowledge.

[arbusto_baboso]

4. self-delete duplicate post

[RoBear]

5. Well, as Jon Stewart said,

who better to defend the idea of marriage being "one man and one woman" than a church founded on polygamy???

[Ian David]

6. I heard that they started letting black people join only because...

... otherwise Brigham Young University's basketball team wouldn't be allowed to compete in the NCAA or something.

[kestrel91316]

9. I always wondered what prompted that. It figures.

Plus, it meant fresh meat for their missionaries and tithing system. The Mormon church is ALL ABOUT MONEY AND POWER.

[Ian David]

28. They say that being Black is The Mark of Cain, and if a Black Person becomes a Mormon...

... their skin will lighten and turn white as they progress toward Salvation.

[Sheepshank]

43. Remember the Lamanite immersion program?

I think it was David o McKay (may have been a different prophet) that swore up and down the lamanites were getting whiter when the kids were farmed out to white families to be raised. Of course that was right before they changed the BoM from "White and delightsome" to "pure and delightsome".

[kestrel91316]

7. Tell me about it. My g-g-g-grandfather, William Adams Hickman,

wes head of the Danites, the "law enforcement arm" of the early Mormon church. Blood atonement was strictly enforced.

There is at least one other DUer who is descended from Hickman, lol. He was into that polygamy thing and has MANY descendants. We are legion.

[curse of greyface]

10. No it is a church with some whackjobs... A church that supported something you disagree with.

Brigham Young preached death for miscegenation... What a surprise cause that was so popular in the mid 1800's.

Is the Morman Church Racist and Homophobic... yes The Mainstream Black Churches are also Homophobic I wonder why you don't attack them. Or the Catholics or the Orthodox Jews or the Muslims or the Chinese or the dozens of other groups that came out in favor or Prop 8

Heck why not attack all the Male Homosexuals who couldn't be bothered to vote. (Lesbians were the force behind no)

The Mormon church helped fund Yes on 8 I get that... But seriously making them the scapegoat ignores the people that voted against your interest or didn't bother to vote at all.

[arbusto_baboso]

18. You miss the point entirely.

Mormons provied anywhere between 47 and 70% of the funding for Yes on 8, yet mormons only consist of about 2% of the population of California, if that.

Catholics, by comparison, didn't donate nearly that much, except for the Opus Dei/Knights of Columbus nutjobs.

And as to what point YOU are trying to make, you're utterly failing to make one.

[gollygee]

19. Spending money on Proposal 8 is bigoted, but it isn't terrorism

It wasn't physically violent. They're bigots, and they're a political organization (and should be paying taxes because of that), but that wasn't an act of terrorism.

[arbusto_baboso]

20. Wasn't it?

Isn't attacking someone's basic civil rights a terrorist act?

I'd be very interested in hearing your rationale if you disagree.

[gollygee]

21. Physically provoking terror is terroism

Terrorism means making someone afraid of their physical safety. Obviously there are terrorist bigots, and therefore we have hate crime laws. But voting, and trying to get other people to vote a certain way, is not terrorism because it is not a threat of physical violence.

[arbusto_baboso]

26. You have a very narrow view of what constitutes terrorism.

Especially since terrorism means the use of terror to achieve one's ends. Do you honestly think that's not what happened here?

And do you think the Yes on 8 campaign will NOT lead to even more gay bashing? I guarantee you that it will, so it will even fulfil YOUR narrow criteria of terrorism.

[gollygee]

27. No, I understand the definiton of terrorism

There are really bad things that people do that aren't "terrorism". No, they didn't use terror - the threat that someone would be physically hurt - to achieve their means. They used bigotry and hate.

It might lead to more gay bashing - but that's speculation and not a direct link.

[curse of greyface]

23. That is the point I am making. The Mormons didn't vote in large numbers.

They funded it. I get that. But they didn't vote. Over the top demonetizing of them doesn't solve the basic problem. Reaching out to the majority of Californians that either voted to take away our rights or were too self involved or lazy to protect their own rights.

Where was the funding for NO. How many gay couples spent more on their wedding flowers than donated to the cause? How many volunteered to stand outside black churches on Sunday and hand out vote no on 8 literature?

Blaming the Mormons is a cop out.

The true blame belongs to the majority of Californians

[gollygee]

11. They are at the least a political organization that should therefore be taxed

And I don't believe that about all churches, but I do believe it about churches that tell people how to vote, which includes the Catholic church. Remember when they were telling people they had to vote in a certain way or they couldn't receive communion?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. And let's not forget those filthy Joos.

Leviticus was a Joo, weren't he?

:eyes:

[arbusto_baboso]

22. Oh, because I'm not tolerant of institutional intolerance, now I'M the hater???

Please. Keep your delusions to yourself.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. I wouldn't use the word "hater."

It's much too mild.

[hfojvt]

25. tell it to Harry Reid

nice that you had to go back to 1857 for an actual act of violence and that you want to call them bigots while you express prejudice against an entire group.

[kevinbgoode]

29. What has Harry Reid done for the GLBT community?

Has he been instrumental in passing federal protections for us? Has he managed to get ENDA passed? Has he dumped DOMA?

Don't imply that I have to respect the "religious" beliefs of anyone who CHOOSES to belong to an organization which actively campaigns against the constitutional rights of other Americans. Reid is a member of that church by CHOICE. I have yet to see or hear one public statement from him or his office about his church's continuing role in funding these amendments.

[hfojvt]

30. I said that group prejudice is bigotry

I think that's true even if people choose to join a group. (Clearly it is not true of groups like the KKK or neo-nazi groups whose primary purpose is terrorism and bigotry, but I think groups like the Mormon church, the Catholic church, the Republican party, etc. have different and more complicated primary purposes.)

I don't think I implied that any beliefs have to be respected. What I think is kinda ironic is how there seems to be a "with us or against us" black and white mentality. There is no gray apparently. Any person or organization which is against the GLBT community is 1000% fu$%ing Evil. I saw the Mormon church supply pallets of supplies for flood relief after Osawatomie was flooded (I also realized that they buttered their own bread because I think they bought the supplies from the Mormon-owned Albertsons stores). So I would make the case that they do SOME good. Just as I would make the case that Reid has done some good. You seem to imply that people who are not for the GLBT community aren't worth a tanj either. Even if Reid has not done anything against the GLBT community, he is still an a$$hole because he has not done anything for the GLBT community.

[jonnyblitz]

35. who the fuck cares about their P.R. campaigns to look good.,

some of you people will bend over backwards to stick up for groups that hate just because they are a religion or because some clueless DEM leader or some nice person you know who likes puppies is a member. sickening.

[aska]

47. good point

I realize that I'm coming into this thread late but it's an extremely serious charge from my point of view to label a church and its USA members "terrorists", especially in this day when our nation is at war against real terrorists who do everything they can to kill American citizens.

I agree with your comment about the person who opened this highly offensive thread: "nice that you had to go back to 1857 for an actual act of violence and that you want to call them bigots while you express prejudice against an entire group."

[TexasObserver]

32. They are, and they should lose their charitable status.

[ZombieHorde]

33. I don't believe that they are terrorists.

[kwassa]

36. The Mormons are having problems retaining new converts.

Low LDS Convert Retention Rate
The Growth of the Mormon Church Now Relies on People Born into Faith

http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/low_lds_convert_retention_rate

Although the number of baptisms reported has remained fairly steady, most people baptized into the Mormon faith become inactive shortly after joining the church.

..............

The convert retention rate for first generation Mormons is zero percent, according to a Peggy Stack's June 22, 2006 aticle, "Kepping Members a Challenge for the LDS Church" that ran in the Salt Lake Tribune. The Mormon Wiki reports that this makes up 64% of the church total membership. Of the 8 million people who still consider themselves to be Mormon, about half of those are active, according to John Dehlin's presentation "Why People Leave the LDS Church."

[aska]

44. Your sources are less than impeccable.

The 13,000,000 member worldwide Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the second fastest growing church in the USA. In April, 2008 the LDS Church officially reported that there were 279,218 convert baptisms in the year 2007.

It is true that many new members soon go inactive (as is probably the case with all churches and most secular organizations) but the notion that the LDS convert retention rate is "zero percent" is a huge stretch of someone's imagination.

http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/statistical-information

[neebob]

37. Small point of correction

Ezra Taft Benson agreed with the John Birch Society but was not a member, according to his grandson Steve Benson, who left the Mormon church and is now an atheist. He's also the political cartoonist for the Arizona Republic. He posts on a forum for ex-Mormons that I go to. I can't find the post where he said it, but it was fairly recent and I'm sure he said ETB was not a member of the John Birch Society.

[Sheepshank]

42. hey...

I sometimes hang at the same site. ETB, had many many faults, I just don't remember what Steve Benson said about his Grandfathers relationship with the Birchers.

[aska]

48. he didn't join

There's a 2005 book titled "David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism" by Gregory A. Prince and Wm. Robert Wright, University of Utah Press, Salt Lake City. In that well documented book it is mentioned that although Ezra Taft Benson (deceased former president of the LDS Church) was a supporter of the John Birch Society, he never did join.

[Meshuga]

38. My two cents

It would probably be easy for me to conclude that Germany is a terrorist country full of terrorists since they massacred millions of people, including Jews, JW's, gays, etc. But I won't because that's just stupid. I know there were Germans who supported the Nazi regime and the ones who didn't but turned a blind eye to the atrocities. But I still refuse to use emotional generalizations and all the guilty by association bullshit to justify hatred for a group of people and a country.

So don't count on me with your appeal to "spread the word about what bigoted, racist, homophobic a-holes this church and its members really are." I understand that its leadership and some of its members let their bigotry be known with the proposition 8 campaign but I refuse to join you on your own hateful generalization.

I will, however, politely let any mormon who knocks on my door know that it is nothing personal against them but that I am not interested in hearing anything from a person who is speaking on behalf of an organization that has its leadership promoting bigotry against a group of people and trying to take away their civil rights. However, I refuse to make the assumption that the person knocking on my door is homophobe because assuming a Mormon is homophobic just because he/she is a a member of the LDS church is bullshit.

[aska]

45. Please provide proofs.

You have made some extremely serious charges about a group of fellow Americans who freely choose to be members of a specific church and are instigating action against them. Please provide proofs for each of your statements, thank-you.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

46. More like a lie than an exaggeration, to be honest.

Terrorism is a word with a specific meaning. It doesn't just mean "bad".

And "is" means "is currently"; referring to things that happened a century ago to justify a statement about "is" is lying.