When does personal conviction become bigotry?

[Az]

When does someone's personal sense of right and wrong become someone else's hate filled bigotry? There are all manner of beliefs running around out there. Some of them seem to posit that their particular beliefs are absolutely right and that any that disagree with them are wrong. Others carry few beliefs but see the views of others as being divisive and destructive to society.

Is there a definable point at which any of these views become bigotry? And even if they can be considered bigoted does that mean they lose any claim to representation or more importantly consideration? Is the label "bigot" simply a term we use to shut down another position or does it warrant usage in specific cases?

And for a full example of recursion does proclamations of bigotry itself become a form of bigotry when codified within a society?

[aspergris]

1. in many cases,

It's bigotry when the name caller doesn't AGREE with the personal convictions of another.

It's an easy way to derail somebody. Call them a bigot or a racist, etc.

Whatever you think of Ward Connerly (who fully support homosexual rights, but is fully against racial preferences), I found it quite amusing when some white kid in the audience yelled out and called him a "bigot" for not supporting racial preferences.

As a person who is pro-choice, am I "bigoted" against fetuses?

etc.

Does my belief in same sex marriage make me bigoted against christian , jewish and muslim people (the orthodox among whom are against gay marriage), etc?

What I find is bigotry is when one applies aggregate probabilistic attributes necessarily to an individual, merely because of his group membership.

There are all sorts of things you can say about groups. For example, men are far more likely to commit any # of violent crimes than women.

Assuming a man is a violent criminal merely because of his gender, would be bigotry.

Same with race, ethnicity, etc. and all the ways the groups differ in the aggregate. I know that west african origin blacks overwhelmingly dominate 100 meter sprinting events. It would be bigoted to assume because one was a west african origin black that one must be a fast sprinter.

Women are, on average, far weaker than men. It would be bigoted if you told me you were a woman, for me to assume you couldn't clean and jerk your bodyweight.

There is immense variance among individuals such that PREjudging an individual based on their group identity is always wrong.

[Warpy]

2. People are told to hate the sin but love the sinner

but damned few of them ever think about what that means.

Loving the sinner means doing that without conditions, respecting his or her right to sin against one's religious laws.

Hating the sin means not doing it oneself.

Anything else is bigotry.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. I think one line can be drawn at the point at which one's beliefs impact (or devalue)someone's life.

Whether that be through action on the part of the one holding the belief, or the actions of society in form of official governmental or social processes.

E.g., if I don't find black women attractive and therefore would never date one, I'm not necessarily a bigot. I'm merely expressing an opinion on a subjective value. Now, if I start going around telling black women that they're unattractive, then that maybe could be bigoted - or it could just be obnoxious assholery. Hard to tell. Or telling others not to date black women might also be bigotry, but might also be the aforementioned obnoxious assholery.

But, if I start to petition the government to make it illegal for black women to date, then that's certainly bigotry. And if the government enacts my proposed legislation, then the government is clearly bigoted.

Or, if I decided that I don't want to date black women not because I find them unattractive, but because I don't find them to be human (or to be lesser humans), then that's also bigotry - a bigotry which, if I keep to myself, hurts no one (except maybe me, and potentially any black women that I might encounter if I act differently towards them); but if I share it, can hurt others or lead others to hurt others.

(And for sake of example, one could replace "don't find black women attractive" with "think that Mormons are wrong" or "republicans are evil")

That's my first quick thoughts on this topic that I hadn't really thought about until you brought up (so if anyone feels the need to flame for being an insensitive asshole or something, please know that I've given this all of five minutes worth of thinking and I'm tossing out some possible ideas).

But, I'm real big on believing that a person's actions speak more and are more important than beliefs and/or professed beliefs.

Good question!

[Evoman]

7. Black women are hot, bigot.

:P

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. Stop oppressing me with your hate speech.

:P

[Faygo Kid]

4. It's not belief. It's actions. Your bigotry is your own problem. It can't be imposed on others.

When bigotry is used to deny the humanity of others, or to exclude them, or diminish their rights, or impose your will - that's when it becomes "hate-filled bigotry."

Too many examples now and in our history to cite. But that's when we must fight back. Small example: I worked for a state bar association. The association had a rule that membership in affiliated organizations had to open to all. I, for instance, could join the affiliated women's bar association. Or the gay-lesbian bar association. Or the Italian-American bar association. Or the geographic bar association 400 miles away from where I lived. One day a group attended a Board meeting wishing to start a Christian bar association. Fine. Except they wanted to limit memberships to professed Christians only. Oops. Sorry, you can't exclude people on that basis. I do not know why they were concerned that somebody, say, Jewish or Buddhist would clamor to join their organization, but that was their business.

Needless to say, the group was denied affiliation, and accused the state bar of bigotry against them. Not at all. They could have had their Christian bar association recognized as a fully accredited group, but the rules said they could not restrict membership. And that was that.

Not sure I answered your question, but my point is that bigotry is not just an abstract concept. It has real world consequences.

[knitter4democracy]

5. I think it becomes bigotry when hatred and fear get involved.

If someone disagrees, that's one thing. When they are scared that the other group might take over the world or might marry into their own family, they're getting close to the line. When they hate the other group, even without knowing anyone in it, they're getting close to the line. How they act on that and whether they fight that in themselves is what decides the difference.

For example, I'm not a big fan of evangelicals, and I do worry that they'd take over the world. I already married into a family of them, though, and I don't hate them. When I start to think generalized stuff and get mad, I work on it within myself to be loving instead, and I wouldn't act on that anger or fear.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Bigotry is a blanket generalization about a group

It's not bigotry to dislike an individual who is doing something harmful or dishonest or annoying. It is bigotry to make blanket statements about any identifiable group of people and say, "They're all like that."

For example, if I catch Ms. A, who is a member of a group other than my own, rummaging through other people's desk drawers, that's a legitimate reason to be wary of Ms. A. If Mr. B, who is a member of a group other than my own, sexually harasses employees, that's a legitimate reason to be wary of Mr. B. If Ms. C, who is a member of a group other than my own, doesn't bathe often enough, that's a legitimate reason to avoid sitting next to her. If Mr. D, who is a member of a group other than my own, has a chip on his shoulder, that's a reason to steer clear of him.

HOWEVER, to say that the presence of ANYONE belonging to Ms. A's group or Mr. B's group or Ms. C's group or Mr. D's group "makes me uncomfortable" is bigotry. For example, when I was visiting Los Angeles in 2001, I rode public transit all over, on the advice of an acquaintance who has lived there car-free for years. When I mentioned this to some local people, they shuddered. "I don't feel comfortable riding with all those blacks and Latinos." That's bigotry.

It's also bigotry to say, based on bad experiences with Ms. A, Mr. B, Ms. C, or Mr. D, that all the members of their group are no good. "There were Asian gangs at my high school, so I hate Asians."

Projection is another aspect of bigotry, most obvious in the closet case who foams at the mouth at the very idea of homosexuality. You attribute traits that you hate in yourself or your own insecurities to some Other.

In short, bigotry is an attitude, summed up in the sentence pattern "All (insert name of racial, religious, ethnic, sexual, socioeconomic, whatever else group here) are (insert derogatory adjective or noun here)."

It's impossible to legislate against bigoted thoughts, but you can legislate against bigoted actions.

[Evoman]

8. I don't care what the fuck is going on in your head, but when

the bullshit in your head affects other peoples right or freedoms, then a line has been crossed. I guess I really don't care when someone is a bigot unless their bullshit has real world affects. And I don't consider reactionary counter-attacks to necessarily be bigotry, either, though some people would....i.e. if someone tries to stop gay people from marrying, and gay people and their allies fight back to strip the aggressors of power (either politically or with a big fucking boot), it ain't bigotry.

That's why I don't necessarily consider anti-religious sentiments bigotry. If you bring you crap to the floor, then get checked, don't start whining bigotry.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. Every bigotry IS a kind of personal conviction.

An evil one, for sure.

[pegleg]

10. Bigotry is, to me, active, willful, unwarranted, discrimination.

And probably we all engage in it at one time or another. Developing a attitude of tolerance and respect is the only remedy.