The Difference Between Spirituality and Religion

[Dover]

"Spirituality is not a way of life, it is life.
To truly embody spirituality it must become a verb."
- Julia Butterfly Hill, on Spiritual Activation


A Brief Historical Survey
of Spiritual Traditions

by P.T. Mistlberger


The Difference Between Spirituality and Religion

Before delving into the history of humanity’s spiritual and religious traditions, it will be useful to define and clarify the difference between spirituality and religion.

There is a marked difference between spirituality and religion, with the former being the original “prototype” from which the latter eventually developed. Almost all bona fide spiritual schools, no matter how loosely organized, begin with the impact of a deeply realized or awakened person. Depending on the communication skills and/or charismatic force of this person, a following usually forms around him or her, with the size and quality of the following being roughly commensurate with the depth and clarity of the teacher’s awareness (though there are no fast rules here. Jesus may be said to have been roughly comparable to Buddha in terms of depth of understanding, but Buddha had a much larger following).

In time, if the following grows to a certain number, an organization of sorts inevitably begins to develop around the teacher. The “organization” is usually led by a particular follower, or followers, who are strong-willed and highly devoted to the teacher. In time, after the teacher’s death, the organization may grow in complexity (or dwindle and disappear). In the case of where the organization flourishes, there eventually comes a time when it is run by “second generation” followers who may never have met the original teacher. At this point, the organization is becoming a religion. It teachings usually consist of written “scriptures” that were either spoken or scribed by the original teacher.

In the case of “high impact” teachers who had large followings, there is usually no one spiritual successor. There may often be a group-succession, where a body of close followers assumes administrative control of the organization upon the teacher’s passing.

In other cases, a direct spiritual successor may be appointed, in which case a lineage is begun. In these cases, where the successor is a worthy and qualified leader, the chances of maintaining the purity of the original teachings are good. In essence, what distinguishes spirituality from religion is the focus of the teaching material. In pure spirituality, the focus of the material is on understanding Consciousness and the Present Moment. Everything is ultimately geared toward that. As such, the dignity and integrity of the individual is upheld, above all else. In a spiritual school, the individual is, fundamentally, more important than the organization.

In a religion, the reverse is true....>

http://www.geocities.com/annubis33/HistoryofSpirituality/TEXT1.html

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"Actually, I believe there is an important distinction to be made between religion and spirituality. Religion I take to be concerned with faith in the claims to salvation of one faith tradition or another, an aspect of which is acceptance of some form of metaphysical or supernatural reality, including perhaps an idea of heaven or nirvana. Connected with this are religious teachings or dogma, ritual, prayer, and so on. Spirituality I take to be concerned with those qualities of the human spirit - such as love and compassion, patience, tolerance, forgiveness, contentment, a sense of responsibility, a sense of harmony - which bring happiness to both self and others. While ritual and prayer, along with the questions of nirvana and salvation, are directly connected to religious faith, these inner qualities need not be, however. There is thus no reason why the individual should not develop them, even to a high degree, without recourse to any religious or metaphysical belief system. That is why I sometimes say that religion is something we can perhaps do without. What we cannot do without are these basic spiritual qualities."
- His Holiness, The Dalai Lama in Ethics for the New Millennium, p. 22


"But we love trees, we love the snow, the friends we have, the world we share
And you find magic from your God, and we find magic everywhere"
- Folk Singer Dar Williams from her song, The Christians and the Pagans



"The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of."
- Blaise Pascal



"I'm not an Atheist because I just can't be that certain."
- Mike Rosen, Radio KOA 850 talk show host
Wednesday, December 19, 2007, 10:56 am

[Warpy]

1. I like the definition

of religion as a defense against having a spiritual experience.

Spiritual experiences can be pretty scary for some people. They immerse themselves in ritual to keep them away.

[Dover]

3. So true Warpy!...n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Ain't it the truth

My husband worked for a while for a fundy. He found out the fellow had had a spiritual experience and it so frightened him that he ran to a fundamentalist church so they could protect him.

Had my first mystical experience at age 17, and found it was something I didn't talk to folks about. But it do allow me to view religion in a different way, and to move away from the constrictions of dogma.

[fascisthunter]

2. I Feel I Am Very Spiritual

however I reject religion because it narrows spirituality and its potential.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. great post

especially the first graphic. Donovan also explained the key to spirituality for me in his song "Happiness Runs In a Circular Motion"

Happiness runs in a circular motion
Thought is but a little boat upon the sea
Everybody is a part of everything anyway
You can have anything
If you let yourself be.

[Dover]

6. Never heard that Ayesha. Thanks.....n/t

[Silent3]

45. Bewilderment also runs in circles...

...but they're wobblier.

[patrice]

7. Religion is more abstract. Spirituality is organic.

Actually, I guess the abstract has to be organic too, so maybe religion is more like the bubbles on waves and spirituality is the waves themselves.

Thanks very much for the interesting read.

[cosmik debris]

8. And the similarity is

They both try to explain things that they don't understand using a highly problematic system of understanding.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Spirtuality doesn't try to explain anything

Spirituality is being.

[cosmik debris]

10. That is semantically meaningless. n/t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Yep, it is

isn't it? :)

[Dover]

12. problematic for whom?

I understand that you don't understand. It's experiential, and has nothing to do with 'systems'. Systems are for the intellect and can only reference the experience.

[cosmik debris]

13. Objective truth is not found through subjective interpretation of

experience. When you say that it is "experiential" you anticipate my argument that it is not universal. If it is not universal, it is only subjective perception rather than fact.

When you use your subjective perception to explain things in a non-factual way, that is problematic. You are welcome to it as long as you don't try to blow that smoke up my wazoo.

[Dover]

14. Actually, it seems you are the one blowing smoke in my...cough...direction.

And yes, I'm quite content, thank you.

[cosmik debris]

15. Once again

Your subjective perception (about blowing smoke) is non-factual perception, not universal truth.

It just seems a shame to me that your satisfaction is reached at such a low threshold.

But that's OK, you do provide amusement.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. Ah, but what is truth?

And who decides? Or is it Hu decides?

[cosmik debris]

17. Pick one

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:truth&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

[More Than A Feeling]

19. One thing that maybe hasn't been pointed out,

is that to say that something is subjective interpretation, or opinion, is not to say that its completely worthless, and should be ignored or gotten rid of. It's merely to say that it describes the person, their deliberate mindset and their identity (and it may serve as part of a hypothesis about how they are likely to act in the future (or not)), than it does about objective things like "what is the universe really like?" The first can still be useful in the right circumstances, but not if your goal is to describe objective reality through reason. It's just a question of knowing what your goal is.

[Dover]

20. In a non-dualistinc reality everything is connected so there is no 'objective truth'

only being. Objective truth assumes there is separation between object and subject.

[cosmik debris]

22. Semantically meaningless. n/t

[More Than A Feeling]

23. No, it doesn't.

What "objective truth" assumes (and in fact, it has been demonstrated. Read "Stumbling into Happiness" by Dan Gilbert for just one example) is that while this is a monistic universe, our brains aren't equipped to fully understand it on their own. Our biases cannot be overcome except working together with rigorous controls such as peer review and competition among and between scientists. That's where objective truth, or as close as we can get, comes from.

[Silent3]

51. What gibberish

Please explain how connectivity results in a loss of objectivity. Further, please explain exactly what you mean by "connected". Connected how? What effects are mediated over these alleged connections? Are some connections stronger than others? Couldn't some "connections" be so weak (like the tug of gravity made by a tennis ball in Toyko on a sparrow in Boston) that they're essentially lost amidst the combined effect of all of the other supposed "connections"?

Oh... if you have answers for these questions, can you manage to refrain from pop-culture misrepresentations of Quantum Mechanics in your response?

[cosmik debris]

21. It may have value

in describing the universe just as a metaphor has value in describing things. But just like metaphors, there is not a 1:1 relationship between the subjective interpretation and the reality.

Confusing the metaphor or the subjective interpretation with the reality of the situation is problematic.

[stellanoir]

18. this ought to settle the whole matter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIBfNsPDw1I&feature=related

Seriously Dover, great post. Thanks.

[Evoman]

24. Every now and then I realize how different I am than most of you.

None of this stuff means anything to me. Religion, spirituality, quantum understanding, etc....blah blah blah.

Your amused by meaningless semantics, and pretend you understand the universe by coming up with silly metaphors. Ohhh..look at me, I'm so deep, I am thinking about the sound of one hand clapping.

Who the fucks knows...maybe I am missing some sort of brain peace the rest of you seem to have. Maybe my soul is corrupted. Maybe my eyes are closed to the "truth".

Or maybe your all just full of shit and don't have the capability of adequately scrutinizing your experiences.


I see no depth in this spirituality stuff. No real depth.

[trotsky]

31. Good post, Evoman.

We all have a human need to understand the universe. Evidently some of us also have a need to believe in answers that we desperately want to be true because they make us feel good.

[Evoman]

34. I don't know if it's a good post, but it's how I feel.

I've never really understood "spirituality" and I'm honest about it. Or, I'm honest now anyways. I remember back in first year, there was this woo-woo type girl I was trying to get with who was in one of my classes. For a while, I pretended that I was also "spiritual" about nature, and even used one or two shitty metaphors myself.

But then I realized that it's all crap to me. I love nature (well, some of it), and I do feel peaceful when I'm out in the woods or I go to the mountains. But it's not some sort experience where I feel like "one with the universe" or anything like that...in fact, I've usually got my eyes out for bears that might be thinking of eating me. The thing I like about nature though, unless your in a touristy area, is that there are no idiots around you waxing philospophy and acting like they can see so much more than you (yeah honey, second sight isn't helping you avoid that bear crawling up behind you).

I regret to inform that I never did get busy with that girl though. But I did make out with her friend at a party :evilgrin:

[cosmik debris]

36. Take his word for it, it is a good post

I've been trying to think up a snarky response, but I'll just settle for saying I agree with you.

[Marrah_G]

38. At least you are honest about it- way to many fakes out there.

[Evoman]

41. The only thing that makes you hotter than when you call me honest,

is when you argue with me.

:evilgrin:

[More Than A Feeling]

42. I'm averting my eyes before something profoundly unnatural occurs.

:scared:

[Marrah_G]

44. It's a religious experience

:evilgrin:

[Marrah_G]

43. NIce post HITLER!!

[Evoman]

48. Whatever...nice reply there, Franco

[Random_Australian]

25. "I'm not an Atheist because I just can't be that certain."

the missing other half: "of course, I am certain enough about what I believe that I don't actually have to ask atheists what they believe. I just take it on faith that they are the two-dimensional people that I win arguments against in daydreams. Once again, faith shows us the correct way!"



I guess what I am trying to say is that my mind is currently in a war: Part of it says "I don't really get what they are doing, but they seem to enjoy it so I don't care"

and the other part says

"They actually base their beliefs on other people on faith. Why the hell don't they just ask people what they believe? It isn't difficult to find someone with an opposing opinion, and it isn't hard to ask them."

Ugh. Either that or this Mike Rosen person asks but does not listen. Or was misquoted. Or similar.

[cosmik debris]

29. Aw c'mon

Taking religious advice from radio talk show hosts is a fine upstanding tradition in America.

You foreigners are just behind the curve on that one.

:)

[trotsky]

32. ...

I just take it on faith that they are the two-dimensional people that I win arguments against in daydreams.

:thumbsup:

[Dover]

26. Spirituality and politics

The focus in a religion is more on the preservation of the past (through ritual and tradition), and the anticipation of the future. The emphasis on the Present Moment that was the core of the original teacher’s message, has faded, owing to the fact that less and less people have prioritized inner awakening. With spirituality, the “inner work” is primary, and as such so is the emphasis on the Present Moment. Naturally, this requires vigilance and great sincerity on the part of the practitioner of the teachings, and thus the calling is steeper for those in a spiritual school. In a religion, there is much less of a demand made on the sincerity of a given member. One can, literally, pay only “lip service” to the religious party line, and remain a member in good standing.

Spirituality has minimal, or no, interest in politics. Religion, however, usually has a deep and vested interested in politics, and in many cases interfaces directly with it. Good examples of this are geopolitically driven wars, which often have the roots of their conflicts in religious differences.


I've really struggled with this one. Felt I wasn't doing enough to bring about change and kicking our ineffective system, angry that it wasn't serving me.
Hooked into a system that operates much like a religion. And our government has moved a long way from it's core intent as values and priorities have shifted. However, now it doesn't function either for traditionalists who want to revive the core intent of our system, or for those who have grown beyond even it's purer original core intent and substructure.

Is government ultimately necessary when each person is committed to one's own and other member's inner awakening where all functions support that purpose? Now there's a reality shift! Perhaps there are some remnants of early Matriarchal societies in this shift. Natural systems that are very much connected to the earth and to personal enlightenment. And I also think that this is not something that we can design ahead of where we are spiritually (if we build it they will come). It will be the natural manifestation of the inner work and deeper connections to our world.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. Religions make meaningful (false) claims; spirituality is meaningless waffle.

Religion is an enemy, but it's an enemy one can at least respect and argue with; spirituality is just contemptible, and all one can do is ignore it.

[Dorian Gray]

28. I have no bone in this argument...

spirituality v. religion. To me it's sort of a semantic difference. I consider my religion and my spirituality to be interchangeable.

But, considering the OP and the distinction made there... what about spirituality is contemptible? I could understand you saying silly or even meaningless. But I don't get contemptible.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

30. Because there is no evidence that that is how the world works.

What we have evidence for is a bunch of balls moving in curves, giving rise in some fashion that we are not even close to understanding to self-awareness and minds capable of experiencing happiness, sadness and so on, ceasing to exist when the brain generating them ceases to function.

There is no evidence whatsoever for anything of any kind beyond this. "Spirituality" is willful self-delusion.

Moreover, nearly everyone who claims to be "spiritual" does so in such a way as to make implicit the belief that not being "spiritual" is a failing.

"That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave … Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul’s habitation henceforth be safely built. ~ Bertrand Russel"

I don't agree that it's cause for unyielding despair - we have a whole lifetime first - but I do think that this is a wonderful statement of How The Universe Is, as far as we can tell.

[trotsky]

33. Well put.

Moreover, nearly everyone who claims to be "spiritual" does so in such a way as to make implicit the belief that not being "spiritual" is a failing.

That could be what bothers me the most.

[onager]

39. No, dammit, only atheists and skeptics are arrogant.

:rofl:

[kwassa]

47. well, that's true, of course.

:hi:

[Evoman]

35. Good post..I like this line:

"Moreover, nearly everyone who claims to be "spiritual" does so in such a way as to make implicit the belief that not being "spiritual" is a failing."

And they do it in such a passive aggressive way. And even if you try to learn what they're talking about, they give you a line like , "You can't learn spirituality, you must teach it" or something juast as meaningless and pass it off as wisdom.

No. Real wisdom is what my sarcastic, atheist grandpa has. He's seen how the world works, and he'll tell you if you listen.

[Dorian Gray]

37. Thanks for the answer....

and not assuming I'm trying to start an argument. I'm not. :)

I totally understand WHY you think spirituality is willful self-delusion, though I don't agree. But, coming from an atheistic position, you would almost have to believe that.

I guess that you find that contemptible, whereas I may find someone else who believed in something that I couldn't or don't (for instance, Scientology) maybe deluded, but I think I'd understand it as well.

Anyhow... thanks for the input. I was genuinely curious.

[MedleyMisty]

40. I like to think of myself as a spiritual atheist

I think I'm totally missing the religion gene. Got more than my fair share of the self-actualization and peak experience genes, though. :)

And "experience" is the key word there. I'm not trying to make a factual statement about existence. I'm just happy and at peace and feeling like I'm one with the universe and minding my own business. How can I be blowing smoke at you if I'm not trying to blow any smoke? I wouldn't even know where to get weed. ;)

I love science and reason. I read a lot of esoteric non-fiction and try to keep up with the new theories in physics and such. I don't see why one can't strive to know actual facts and also be into happiness and peace and love. It's not magical thinking, like religion. There are no gods or demons or angels or supernatural realms or anything like that. There is just existence, and personally to me it's beautiful and good and true in all its unconscious and uncaring randomness. I've never understood the desire to believe that there's some supreme being out there that cares about you and makes things happen - I don't need a point or a meaning. I just like to be.

If you don't feel like that, that's cool with me and doesn't threaten me any. We just have different genes and were nurtured differently.

[Silent3]

46. It's like the difference between believing in The Invisible Pink Unicorn...

...Who will punish you when you fail to observe The Sabbath, and believing in invisible pink unicorns which you can see once you're attuned to their vibrational energies, who will help guide you to Deeper Awareness and Self Actualization.

[moggie]

49. What colour are these vibrational energies?

Unless they're violet-purple, I don't think that's true spirituality.

[MedleyMisty]

52. I think we have a different definiton of spirituality

I used to wonder why people argued about semantics so much and what the big freaking deal was about "labels", and then I realized that everyone has their own personal language.

When I think of the word spirituality, I don't think of vibrational energies and all that sort of thing. Sounds like you're thinking of what I see on the usual astrology site. I would define that as superstition and the same sort of magical thinking as religion, not spirituality.

Are Maslow's theories about self-actualization not generally accepted as decent science? I thought they were, but hey, I can be wrong.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. The widely different definitions for 'spirituality' are a huge problem with the word

You don't think of vibrational energies; but it's not clear what you do think of. Something to do with Maslow and self-actualization ('decent science'? Well, it's a idea in psychology, but there are loads of those. I don't think there much that's 'settled'), but what?

As a starting point, do you believe in a 'spirit' that is distinct from a 'mind'?

[CatholicEdHead]

50. More like religion a dogmatic blind following of the rules

Which spirituality does not have. With spirituality there is no follow the leader or be cut off from above.

[Desertrose]

54. Nice, Dover.

Religion is for people afraid of going to hell....

Spirituality is for people who have already been there.

...and I must say I like this, too....

"Spirituality is not a way of life, it is life."

Once on that path, life is completely different.

:hug:
DR

[More Than A Feeling]

55. That's very Zen of you.

Ah, but then you get to the even tough question: "what is god, (if you use such language)?"

[Desertrose]

60. We do not have language to describe that concept.

.....besides, everyone has their own idea of what god is or isn't, right?

(Not like there is a *universal truth* on that topic, so why make yourself crazy trying to define something we have no words to describe it with.)


Some things truly are experiential...and if you don't have that experience...well, guess that's still your experience.

We are all where we are, right? Not good or bad....just the way it is...

:)

[Dover]

56. Hey DR! How are you?

Yeah, never thought my little thread would be so popular! I posted it especially for the Atheists to give them something useful to discuss...hehehe!

Good to see you my friend.:hug:

[More Than A Feeling]

58. *chuckles* Always lookin' out for us, eh?

[Desertrose]

59. Tryin' to stay sane in a world full of crazy...

How bout you, hon?

Nice thread...I see they have also enjoyed it.;)

Always good to see all your lovely posts.:hug:

DR

[greyl]

57. Guess what.

That's my line.

[Dover]

61. Churches in Crisis - some religions and/or individual churches find 'spiritualism'

very dangerous and threatening (mainly to their own survival).

http://tinyurl.com/2avowg

[IsItJustMe]

62. Thank you for the post. I have been seriously thinking about this for most of my life, in one way

another.

I spent most of my life contemplating religion and all I got was delusion. There was no truth in it for me. Over the last two years, I have been looking into spirituality (not in an American pop culture way) but rather studying eastern traditions. I have found much truth in it.

I kind of look at it like this. All rivers eventually lead to the ocean. Some are straight and wide and others are narrow and winding. They are methods and not truths in-and-of-themselves, but help to lead you there.