Kerry Looks Like the Caricature They Painted of Him: Waffle Boy

[smartvoter]

He is both for and against a recount. He won't fight but says it's not over. Now, Jackson comes out saying Kerry's in for the fight only to scale back his comments afterward (read Olbermann's latest blog).

Kerry is acting just as the opposition painted him. Where is the war hero, war protesting, organized crime prosecuting, Iran Contra exposing, fight-to-the-finish candidate we expected?

[molly]

1. Who would you say would have done better?

[righteous1]

2. One word....DEAN

[molly]

14. P.S.

noone even wants Dean for ANYTHING in the Dem party.

[liberal al zib]

18. Dean is the best

man to run for President in 2008. In fact Dean is the best man to run for President ever.
GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN GO DEAN.

[mirandapriestly]

29. Why isn't Dean saying anything then? nt

[xultar]

3. Wesley K. Clark n/t

[molly]

54. I still like Wes - he and Edwards were my second choices

[fertilizeonarbusto]

4. Dean or Kucinich or Sharpton or Clark would still be fighting

n/t

[molly]

8. Those people Dean and Kucinich didn't even have a

showing in the primary. It is illogical to think that they would have even gotten an eighth of the votes. How can you SUPPOSE that they would still be fighting?

LMAO!!!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

15. How do you know that they would have done that badly?

may be a candidate would more courage in his convictions would have actually won outright and all recount fights would be moot.

[molly]

43. Did you review the primaries?

[deutsey]

25. I seem to recall that a lot people went for Kerry because

they though he was "electable." What contributed to that belief was his military record and his polished, articulate skills as a debater and campaigner. I think a lot people (myself included, although I very reluctantly supported him) thought Kerry was someone who would dare to stand on principle, speak out and fight back (I based this impression maninly on his Vietnam testimony).

I think when the GOP launched its Swift Boat smear campaign against Kerry, many of us thought he would fire back right away. He didn't. Many of us winced every time he lamely explained his vote on the $87 billion and when he danced around the issue of being a liberal.

Say what you will about Dean and especially Kucinich, but they both demonstrated to me much more of a willingness to fight even when it was clear in the primaries that they weren't going to win.

[Eloriel]

52. What ALSO contributed to that belief

was a campaign including dirty tricks put on by some of his primary opponents:

* The Dean-Osama bin Laden ad, formulated by Gephardt's dirty tricks friends and funded by some of Kerry's rowdy friends (Toricelli) and some unwitting unions (thanks to Gephardt) who later regretted their contribution, and for which Gephardt was promised "a prominent position in the administration, quite possibly the VP slot," according to Gephardt's longtime friend, consultant and all-around dirty trickster go to gal, Joyce Abouzzi

* CONCURRENET editorials in a lot of Iowa papers bemoaning Dean's UNELECTABILITY (thank you, Gov. Vilsack)

* CONCURRENT stump speeches by Kerry highlighting HIS (what else) ELECTABILITY

I think a lot people (myself included, although I very reluctantly supported him) thought Kerry was someone who would dare to stand on principle, speak out and fight back (I based this impression maninly on his Vietnam testimony).

What I and some other DUers tried to point out to people -- and it didn't seem to work -- was that the fighting Kerry, the BCCI Kerry, died or smartened up, or went all self-preservationist or lost/threw away/ jettisoned his spine a LONG time back. People here (and I'm not talking about you, esp. since I don't remember if you fit into this category or not) LOVED talking about his work against the BCCI, but they failed to notice that there was nothing SINCE then that Kerry went after the Bushes about, NOR did he ever, in any way, provide the slightest hint, suggestion, or allusion to any plans to go after the Bushes if in office. I knew in my heart that that's because he HAD no plans to do so, despite the pro-Kerry wishful thinking around here.

I think his current actions (or inactions) are an absolutely perfect indicator of who Kerry really is: someone who just isn't capable of a fight, at all. Oh yes, once upon a time he was a hero -- twice over, once in Vietnam, then later as a anti-Vietnam War Vet. Those days are gone forever.

I don't know where this is all going, this recount stuff, but I seriously doubt it would end up in a "regime change at home." But if by some small chance (miracle, really), the election WERE overturned, it wouldn't be Kerry who would deserve the White House IMO, it would be Cobb and Badnerik. And how pitiful would that be, that two INDEPENDENT candidates (three, counting Nader who definitely played his own critically important part) win the White House for the lame and cowardly losing candidate? Kerry would have MINUS Political Capital going in, and rightfully so. He'd be the equivalent of a lame (dead, really) duck from that start. And rightfully so. He'd better pray no one makes it possible for him to step forward and claim the prize afterall.

[bearfan454]

67. I agree with a lot of what you just posted Eloriel. n/t

[deutsey]

71. Same here...I remember all that crap too.

One of the reasons why I held my nose in supporting Kerry.

By the way, I was a Dean activist. I reluctantly supported Kerry after he was the nominee.

[liberal al zib]

19. Dean for President and Kucinich for Vice President

YES!!!!

[helderheid]

64. Kooch

Kucinich is the only one you mentioned who is actually doing anything about this or saying anything about this.

[Bread and Circus]

17. Dean or Clark

[malatesta1137]

66. even one of the Olsen twins would have done better

[Chimpanzee]

72. They're Republicans

[malatesta1137]

75. exactly

thank you.

[Branjor]

5. Cheez...

Kerry's acting as though he's been lobotomized.

[smartvoter]

6. How about...

Dean or Clark or anyone who would openly fight when evidence of fraud existed.

Gore, too. Say what you want about him, but he knows how to fight.

[Eloriel]

53. Well, you've just tapped Cobb and Badnerik,

haven't you? After all, they're the ones who ARE openly fighting when there's (circumstantial, so far) evidence of fraud?

[smartvoter]

55. Nader, too, from that perspective.

I admit that I am impressed that these people are putting up the fight we need. Makes you feel a little different about the "other" candidates on the ballots. If they weren't on them, we'd be nowhere.

[blm]

7. This way keeps the recount about the recount.

The moment he makes it about him is when the media targets him for the kill, then the recount will be overshadowed.

Right now, the media and the public think Bush won the popular vote by over 3 million votes. They will give Kerry NO benefit of the doubt. They crucified Gore even while acknowledging that he received the popular vote which gave him some moral high ground in 2000.

[molly]

10. I'm so glad you are here, BLM!!!

I am sick and tired of whiny immature people.

[smartvoter]

23. People who disagree with you are immature? THAT's a mature position.

Some of us believe that the Kerry's not coming forward is a problem. We can find fraud all day and cannot get past the argument that that candidate isn't even contesting it. You many not like it, but the position of people like me has a foundation.

[Avalux]

28. Maybe the time isn't right yet??

Look - there's a lot we don't know and there's no way of predicting what will happen in the next weeks or months. Once all the fraud evidence has been gathered and presented and our case has been made, if Kerry STILL hasn't said anything, then go after him.

[smartvoter]

31. Fair enough.

I'll buy that.

[Avalux]

37. Yay!

:hug:


Oh - and if Kerry doesn't speak up after everything comes out - I'll be one of the first in line to kick his ass.

[Eloriel]

56. Here's the problem with that line of thinking

Kerry is contributing NOTHING to this recount effort. Nothing. Oh, sure, they say they are "observing," but that's NOT a contribution.

Why is he letting someone else carry his water for him? I could MAYBE buy the argument that he's laying low until all the evidence is accumulated, but the approach he's taking is just cowardly, IMO, letting someone else (3 someone else's) fight his and The People's battles for him when he's the one who should be doing it, at least at SOME level. Plenty of people contributed money they didn't really have to that recount GELAC fund of his -- and he's sitting on it while some of us had to contribute AGAIN to Nader, Cobb and Badnerik just to get the recounts done.

Doesn't seem like such a fighter to me, nor does it seem like a strategy for anything other than laying low until it's safe to come out, til others have cleared the mine field and done the heavy lifting.

[smartvoter]

58. I am inclined to agree, but we'll find out soon enough...

If he really does have a strategy for this that we can't see. You are absolutely right in that if hell freezes over and he does get in, he'll have opposing candidates to thank.

[Chimpanzee]

73. I agree - but let's hope we're ultimately proven wrong

[smartvoter]

74. Amen to that.

[saracat]

79. What I have a problem with is the constant criticism without any information

We don't "know" whether Kerry is doing anything or not. The fact that he is not, is as open to speculation as that he is. As far as the Green and Libertarian candidates go, they have absolutely nothing to lose by this effort, and everything to gain. Look how much great PR they have racked up so far! And it is only going to get better for them. They are advancing themselves and their parties. But they NEVER had a chance to win, or a serious reputation to injure. I am thrilled with what they are doing and appreciate it, but they are as much opportunists as they are heroes, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. It is just a who benefits element. It could be everybody. Kerry ultimately looks better if this rises up out of the population. It would look like a real voter inquiry as opposed to self interest. I , too, am very frustrated and wish Kerry would speak out, but I don't know , nor does anyone else what he is doing , if anything, or whether it is in his interests ,or ours ,to do so. I do know this, much as they used to call him "live shot", and much as he likes to talk, this is unusual, and can't be what he wants to do. He has got to be chomping at the bit. This is a guy that wants to over explain everything and he is keeping his mouth shut? He doesn't like the Democrats that much.He isn't voting with them, that is for sure. I say, chill out a bit longer. If he never does anything, and this is it,he will be history. He has to know that.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

30. Precisely, thank you

Letting your vote be stolen is not my idea of maturity. It's been over a month, the evidence keeps seeping out and getting smellier-and nothing from our standard-bearer.

[molly]

39. If you don't believe that a lot of DU threads these days

are immature, take a look at the thread titles.

[Avalux]

16. Agreed

Happen to catch Michael Moore last night? He was Brilliant!!

[marions ghost]

38. Agreed...keep the recount up front

It's too early to judge Kerry. Sometimes it's best not to give the other side an inch and withdrawal is a temporary strategy. There will come a time soon when Kerry's behavior can be judged, and it will become clear where he really stands. And then we all can choose whether to stay or ditch. But right now, emphasizing the recount strikes me as the best strategy also. It's at a delicate point.

BUT...I do agree that this election has clearly become a test of the Democratic leadership. And no matter what Kerry does, the Greens and other voting rights groups will get A LOT more of my support in future. Whether I will also support the Dems does depend on how this plays out. It's a clear challenge to them, as far as I'm concerned. Time will tell. We ain't there yet. Am still givng Kerry a 50-50 chance to come through. Meanwhile am putting my frustration about it into other areas during the wait.

[Karmadillo]

82. Stop making sense.

n/t

[noamnety]

9. When I see posts like this

It makes me think the neocons are still concerned about a Kerry win and a legitimate presidency for Bush.

I half expect to see the swifties running commercials again.

[righteous1]

12. So you think Kerry is doing all

he can and should be doing?

[noamnety]

57. He's got lawyers on the ground

That's really all I know right now. If you don't think it's enough, and you think he's being dismissive rather than reserved, that's fair.

But to jump from that to a full-on character assassination based on Rove's black-is-white up-is-down talking points is ... well, I'm not finding polite words for it.

[smartvoter]

13. How so?

[KittyWampus]

22. Short Posts To Run Up Your Post Count?

it's transparent.

[smartvoter]

33. Barking up the wrong tree.

I accumulated more than 2000 posts at the ABC boards before coming here because this is where the best voting fraud data was coming from when ABC shut down the election board. And I've always been on this side of the fence. But you can believe what you like.

[righteous1]

34. ie smartvoter. so anyone who has an opinion a bit

different than yours is automatically something different than they appear. Nonsense, the retort of a lazy mind. The only thing transparent is the arrogance of your single minded intolerance of diverse views

[smartvoter]

40. In some ways, there is less tolerance here than at mixed blogs.

[righteous1]

50. Yea, I believe you are correct

Someone needs to tells some of these folks that the Gestapo was disbanded in 1945

[Eloriel]

61. lwfern

That really is, IMO, a completely unwarranted and wrong-headed attack on the poster. I've been here for several years now, and I feel exactly the same way as SmartVoter. Are you going to accuse me of being a neocon too? If so, I could put you in touch with several DUers I now know personally who could set you straight on that point.

[understandinglife]

11. W 2: Democracy O - ver ?

I am seeking as many comments as you care to offer by 4pm EST today.

"W 2: Democracy O-ver" -- Two questions:

-- 1. Are we prepared to let that happen?

-- 2. Who is the only person who can lead an effort to change the score to W out: Democracy, the Winner?

I can answer the first question only for myself, obviously. The answer is No.

In my opinion the only person who can lead all of us to the only victory that matters is Senator Kerry and it is better to make a valiant attempt now rather than deluding ourselves that we are going to get another chance. Because, foul ball, strike 1 was 2000; foul ball, strike 2 was 2002; foul-tip was 2 Nov 2004.

The opponent truly controls the scoreboard, owns the field, and has been showing our Democracy the exit since 9 Dec 2000. We must refuse to leave; we must insist that the third pitch was no different than 1 and 2 -- spitballs.

Thus, Senator Kerry and all of us need to focus on:

The only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are supposed to be the stakeholders, the citizens, who irrespective of what happened to their candidate, got to swing at legal pitches and didn't have the score changed from 3 to 0, and reported as a mandate.

Senator Kerry cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or..., happen to be.

Let's reflect on what would it mean for Senator Kerry to "win" the current "election"?

What exactly would he and our Democracy be winning?

An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that he'd not be able to reform because of the intransigence he'd face from a Republican controlled Congress; a media that has shown zero interest in finding the truth, in defending the disenfranchised, and on and on.

He'd get to 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1994 look like child's play.

In my opinion, he and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option - declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

-- 1.Audit shows Bush 'won,' so be it;

-- 2. Audit shows Senator Kerry and Edwards 'won,' they demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and they abide by the outcome.

I am suggesting that Senator Kerry and Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue our democracy franchise.

They need to call the spitball for what it was in 2000, and in 2002 and on 2 Nov 2004 -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

They, and all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy, should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot legitimately be 'won'; the other team not only breaks the rules, they control the scoring process, the umpires and the media.

Senator Kerry and Edwards should lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise.

From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, they might just convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all those whom you prevented from voting, let them vote, now."

Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.'

Just imagine what would happen if Senator Kerry and Edwards said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

And, just imagine the power and credibility they would have if they first said - 'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then 'wins' will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.'

I may be very much off the mark here, and for the sake of our Democracy I hope my assessment of the situation is incorrect - on nothing before in my life would I more want to be wrong. But, based on what little I know, if I were Senator Kerry I would see nothing worth 'winning' in the current situation: instead I would seize perhaps the remaining opportunity to save our Democracy.

Thank you.

"Hault, Audit, & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[comradebillyboy]

21. if anyone is waiting for kerry to stand up and lead,

you may have to wait a very long time.

kerry was nominated, ran a shitty inept campaign and lost. we don't need to recycle this loser. the dems need a fighter with some vision (that he/she can actually articulate in an understandable manner). we need to nominate a person who can move the voters, not the demo careerists in the washington establishment.

[nashville_brook]

26. radical, but not off the mark

the premise of the thread is that Kerry's a wuss and then everyone chimes in with their favorite alternative (dean, clark), but i wonder, where IS dean and clark and michael moore, for that matter?

something else is afoot. and the allegations that the Ukraine situation is a Repuke engineered Florida 2000 part 2, only make me wonder further. see thom hartmann's article on commomdreams from yesterday: How To Take Back A Stolen election.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm

i think what you say about re-voting and by extention focusing on democracy instead of the election is an elegant solution.

i'm not sure what it would bring, but it seems to be Right Action.

[understandinglife]

36. Thank you and it is my contention....

...., possibly incorrect, but one that I've given several weeks of constant thought that no matter who the Democrats had nominated, they would all be facing exactly the same outcome as Senator Kerry.

NO ONE who cares about our Democracy and was willing to 'play the current game' could win. The fix was in by 2000; any Democrat was only going to face spit-balls, biased umpires and a complacent, or worse, media.

That is the way it is. I'm not making it up -- just look at the 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of comments on sites like DU, dKos, atrios, brad blog, .............. !

The only choice Senator Kerry and each of us have at this moment is to slump and crawl out of the stadium (perhaps continuing to delude our selves that we can 'reform' before 2006 or 2008) or we can charge the mound and bring the farce to a full HALT.

Senator Kerry has nothing to 'win' no matter what happens in FL or OH or NV -- those situations are all about understanding that all the Republicans have been throwing are spit-balls and all their umpires have Blackwell 'modus operandi.'

Senator Kerry can lead us to fully uncover the fix, ban the spit-balls and umpires, and hold a valid election. Whomever wins that election will truly have won. The fact that someone 'loses' in a Democracy is ok as long as they know the franchise is healthy and they have a fair shot at another try.

Thank you.

"Halt, Audit, & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[Stand and Fight]

65. To understandinglife:

You know what? You really want to know what I think about your post? Well, I'm going to lay it on you! It's radical. It's reaching. But hot damn, it makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it is a Solomon like solution to our current dilemma. I must commend you on your excellent presentation of your ideas in a concise, well-organized, and thoroughly well thought-out persuasive argument. I'd thought that I was nuts for thinking the very same thoughts and ideas that you express so very well. I commend you from the very fount of my soul. I only wish that that our Johnnies would have your wisdom and fortitude, because while it would be an up-hill fight, it would solidify them in the public mindset as being true champions of the people! I only wish that our media and our country-men would go along with what is surely the most viable and completely honest solution to a baneful problem. I would like to say more, but I can only end with this - In a word, your post was:
BRILLIANT!

[understandinglife]

76. Your comments are gratifying and much appreciated...

....but, as you undoubtedly realize, they re-enforce my realization that I have so little to offer at a time when the only hope is that those with stature and resources lead the charge to the mound, take the ball away from the pitcher, and halt the game.

Then, they need to send groups of experts into every location connected to the scoreboard and audit exactly what happened, as comprehensively as possible.

They need to expose many of the umpires for what they are and either prosecute them or at least recuse them from further participation in the electoral process.

They need to give our 'free press' no alternative but to serve the Constitution that protects its very existence and, stop them from treating our Democracy as some flag-waving, valueless episode of Alice in wonderland.

And, only after doing the above, make a decision how to proceed.

I am convinced that Senator Kerry, as well as every other honorable member of Congress, have zero chance of effecting legislative reform of our electoral system in the next 2 years, because we have plenty of evidence of successful resistance during the past 4 years.

And, by 2006 SCOTUS will be so entrenched in the service of a neocon, tyrannical agenda that our current Constitution will be rendered even more meaningless than what was done to it on 9 Dec 2000 by Scalia.

We have to act now, but we need the one person who has the authority and duty to lead the charge to the mound, Senator Kerry.

I will keep trying to convince him and all those who have any access to him to deliver the message -- Senator Kerry we must halt the game or our Democracy is lost.

Thank you.

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[understandinglife]

83. Letter to Senator Kerry, on official letterhead...

....signed & fax'd to both his Capitol Hill Office and his Boston Office:


Honorable Senator John F. Kerry
US Senate
BY FAX: [phone] & 617.248-3870

30 November 2004

Dear Senator Kerry,

Subject: W 2: Democracy O-ver ?

I ask you two questions:

1. Are we prepared to let that happen?

2. Who is the only person who can lead an effort to change the score to W out: Democracy, the Winner?

I can answer the first question only for myself, obviously. The answer is No.

In my opinion the only person who can lead all of us to the only victory that matters is you, Senator Kerry. I urge you to realize that fact and the fact that it is better to make a valiant attempt now rather than deluding ourselves that we are going to get another chance. Because, foul ball, strike 1 was 2000; foul ball, strike 2 was 2002; foul-tip was 2 Nov 2004, and we can't wait for the next pitch for several obvious reasons.

Our opponent truly controls the scoreboard, owns the field, and has been showing our Democracy the exit since 9 Dec 2000. We must refuse to leave; we must insist that the third pitch was no different than 1 and 2 -- spitballs.

Thus, Senator Kerry we all need to focus.

We must assert that the only 'winners' in a franchise of democracy are supposed to be the stakeholders, the citizens, who irrespective of what happened to their candidate, got to swing at legal pitches and didn't have the score changed from 3 to 0, and reported as a mandate.

Senator Kerry you cannot truly 'win' no matter what the numbers in OH, or FL, or..., happen to be.

Why do I say that without reservation -- well, let's reflect on what would it mean for you to "win" the current "election"?

What exactly would you and our Democracy be winning?

An HR and Senate controlled by Republicans; an intractable Iraq; a close to collapsing debt structure; a fanatical bunch of neocons who'd never let up; a voting system that you would not be able to reform because of the intransigence you would face from a Republican controlled Congress; a media that has shown zero interest in finding the truth, in defending the disenfranchised, and on and on.

You and your fellow patriots would arrive at 2006 and face a disaster that would make Newt's ravage of the Democrats in 1994 look like child's play.

In my opinion, you and Senator Edwards have only one realistic option - declare the current election process invalid, demand a comprehensive audit and commit to one of two outcomes:

1. Audit shows Bush 'won,' so be it;

2. Audit shows you 'won,' then you demand a re-vote using a fair and legitimate system and you abide by the outcome.

I am suggesting that you and Senator Edwards take the type of courageous and selfless action that might just rescue our democracy franchise.

You need to call the spitball for what it was in 2000, and in 2002 and on 2 Nov 2004 -- a systematic attack on our Constitutional rights and our value proposition to all of humanity.

You, along with all of us who are dedicated to our Democracy, should not waste another second trying to 'win' something that simply cannot legitimately be 'won'; the other team not only breaks the rules, they control the scoring process, the umpires and the media.

Senator Kerry you must lead from a position of selfless service to the franchise.

From that vantage, with that sudden jolt to everyone's attention, you will have earned the moral and patriotic authority required to convince millions of Americans to shout -- "Halt, prove to us our vote was counted as we intended. And, for all those who were prevented from voting, let them vote, now.

Rev Jackson got a bit of attention yesterday by saying 'fine with win and lose, but let's count first.'

Just imagine what would happen Senator if you said 'we have nothing to win, we have everything to lose if we first do not determine exactly what happened in this election and if we do not insist that those who were disenfranchised are permitted to express their vote before anyone claims to be the Next President of the United States of America.'

And, just imagine the power and credibility you would have if you stood before all the Nation, at Independence Hall in Philadelphia and committed pledged yourself to this commitment:

'Even if the numbers swing in our favor, the current system is so bankrupt that we will insist on a re-vote, using a fair, legitimate process to ensure that whomever then 'wins' will truly have done so knowing that every eligible voter is confident that they had equivalent access to vote and confidence that their vote was counted exactly as they intended.'

Senator Kerry history is happening and it is a broad, black stroke being painted over our Constitution, our heritage and our credibility -- if you do not lead now, in a way no less dramatic and courageous as the Founders, as Lincoln and as FDR, our franchise is over.

I will be there next to you; I will take as many hits as I can withstand to protect you; I will die at your side and, at 57 years of age and having witnessed as an MD exactly what death is, I assure you, these are not idol or idealistic words. This is a commitment from someone who fully recognizes that we either halt the next pitch or what we call "America" will no longer be a democracy franchise.

Awaiting orders, Senator Kerry.
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[NVMojo]

20. woooohooooo!! Big shot. It's always easy to throw rocks at someone

when we sit behind a computer screen. Chicken.

[smartvoter]

27. ??? What do you want me to do?

I've given money, I'm out here, I'm out in media blogs, I write letters, I tell everyone I know there were problems. The one argument that none of us can trump is the candidate isn't challenging the result. Olbermann has said in his own blog that Kerry's silence is a huge part of the media "black out."

I am fighting with my time and my pocketbook. That's all I've got.

[Spiffarino]

68. Keep on keepin' on

...and keep up the fight to save our democracy.

I like Kerry and think he's doing what he can. You disagree. That's fair and you are entitled to your POV same as me.

Let's ALL agree on one thing, however, and that is that our democracy is in deep, deep trouble and needs all of us to band together to fight for it.

smartvoter, I've got your back. You got mine?

Peace

[smartvoter]

69. You bet.

[hlthe2b]

24. I think there is a story there that is not being told. I don't know what

it is and I don't know yet how to feel about Kerry in light of recent weeks, but I am convinced there is much we don't know.

I'll only say I am overwhelmingly frustrated. I'd love to be stuck on an elevator for a few hours with a talkative Theresa-- that's for sure.

[Career Prole]

32. LOL! I hear ya!

I'm sure there's much we don't know about what's going on behind the scenes as well. I think a bit of patience is in order.
I've noticed some posts from newbies since the election which make me wonder if they're even all that much aware of what's going on in plain sight, to tell you the truth.
There have been some strange posts.:eyes:

[molly]

42. AMEN!!!!

I visit DU every day and a lot of days lately, I don't even bother - just look at the thread titles. What ever happened to intelligent discussion here?

[Career Prole]

48. Scapegoating's easier.

Doesn't take as much thought...just a lot of :grr:'s

I've no doubt much of it is freeper subterfuge.
Not this one in particular, of course...but much of it.

[Eloriel]

59. Oh, there's a lot going on behind the scenes all right

but none of it involves Kerry.

Dream on, folks. We'll all know soon enough if Kerry steps up to the plate at all. My bet? Not -- unless things become VERY clear and, as I've said many times already, it becomes perfectly safe to do so. Given how fiercely the Repugs will fight this (are starting already) once things begin to hit the fan, my guess it'll never be "safe enough" for the Senator to get in front of the parade and pretend to be the leader.

[molly]

63. Do you know something the rest of us don't - behind

the scenes, I mean?

[Eloriel]

70. Yes, a little

I most certainly do.

There's a LOT going on behind the scenes, thanks to DUers IdaBriggs (who discovered the NH anomalies) and hedda_foil, co-founder of the National Ballot Integrity Project and ALSO co-founder of the new 527, Help America Recount, which was formed at the speed of light, nearly, once Nader agreed to ask for a NH recount -- which happened thanks to many other DUers and Randi Rhodes listeners who faxed Nader in a mad flurry on the Friday afternoon of the NH recount deadline. Nader submitted his recount request with barely one MINUTE to go before the deadline. DUers did that. Then Nader was talking about OH, and eventually Cobb and Badnerik stepped up to the plate.

Here are some links:

www.helpamericarecount.org

www.ballotintegrity.org/

Help America Recount was formed specifically to help fund and promote these recounts, and Hedda is very much in the thick of things, as is IdaBriggs.

Now there's a brand new organization, a coalition called Audit The Vote. It just went public yesterday:

www.AuditTheVote.org

I had a chance to talk to Hedda on Sunday (I think it was, maybe Sat.) and knew that NV and NM were a "go" -- and it would likely be announced Mon or Tues. I was surprised and delighted that the news broke yesterday, via the Cobb campaign.

She says both Cobb and Badnerik are both terrific men and real patriots, really committed to this, and that they've become friends as a result of working together on this. She has the highest regard for both of them.

That's about all I feel comfortable revealing of what little I know (since I try to stay out of Joan's hair because she's so busy).

Oh -- and here are some links that provide a little background. I didn't keep the furious and urgent "FAX NADER!!" link, tho I suppose it could be found via Search if someone were interested and had the time to dig.

Want to Help America Recount? The website is UP!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1344801
Link: www.helpamericarecount.org
National Ballot Integrity Project http://www.ballotintegrity.org/

***** Donations for the Recount" Fundraising Kit > > >
(Use this to send to your friends -- enormous amount of info -- pick and choose what you need)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x37833


BACKGROUND:
DU INFO ALERT: Why Recounting in New Hampshire Could Save Democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617155

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843

[mirandapriestly]

35. Yes, I would love to hear what Theresa has to say

and I am going to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt. He is not stupid, that is the one thing I know, and I really doubt he would intentionally "throw" an election for any price, certainly not for money.

[SueZhope]

44. I agree

we should give him the chance to come out the way he sees fit, considering his history and the way those that know him say he is the type to work quietly behind the scenes...let him do his thing and in the end if he never steps up to fight this Fraud then we judge him and judge him harshly

[molly]

45. Being as outspoken and "out of control" as Teresa

has been, she is subdued for a reason.

[ROakes1019]

41. Kerry the Warrior

I've been thinking the same thing. As a reply further down says, Kerry was nominated largely, I think, because Dems believed he was a fighter and knew we would need a tough fighter against Bush et al. Yet, what I saw in Kerry was a politician who does waffle to please the electorate. He immediately, after concession, said he planned an '08 run. He's already trying to appear statesman-like. In some ways, seeing him so weak, I don't feel quite so bad about his defeat, although like Gore I don't think he really was defeated. Right now, the Dems don't have a champion. Yes, I think Dean or Kucinich would have been like bull terriers after Rove and Bush. To say neither did well enough in the primaries begs the question: whoever the Dems nominated would have had the same strong support Kerry had. The only thing I see from all this is that if Kerry doesn't fight, and it may be too late for him, he should not ever be considered in '08.

[molly]

46. Please look up BCCI and tell us Kerry lacks fortitude

and courage. Then go look at his Viet Nam record including his appearance before Congress.

[smartvoter]

47. We know. Where is that person now?

[w13rd0]

51. I've looked at both...

...and wonder why that kind of fortitude went out 20 years ago. Kerry is a great closer. But usually the "closing" occurs before the final bell. I'm not second guessing his actions if something is going on behind the curtain, but if we just fizzle into a second Bush term, I'm going to be mad as hell for another 4 years. Furthermore, if we don't demonstrate that we will fight to ensure the integrity of elections, it's going to be very hard to get people to donate their time, their money and their vote come the next election cycle.

[Eloriel]

62. What you just keep missing about his "record" is that

it's ANCIENT HISTORY.

He's done NOTHING courageous since then. Nothing whatsoever.

We;ve had this discussion since the primaries. You keep clinging onto a 30-year old record as if it is an indicator of his CURRENT courage level, while his CURRENT record resoundingly points to NO!!!

[saracat]

80. Elorial, You keep saying that he had done nothing, but

unless you have a special link to inside workings of his campaign , I don't see how you would "know". I agree that is what it looks like, but we know we can't trust that because all we have is MSM and internet speculation. Tell me how you know this for a fact. We all feel that way, but "know"?

[keepthemhonest]

49. guys don't forget that

Kerry was able to get more votes than any previously elected president in history.I think that says a lot. However, that is not including the votes that were stolen from him(us.)

I think Kerry did a great job ,he is an intellectual and he worked hard for those votes. The only con I can see was the Swift boat,lack of response to it.

[delphine]

60. I getting sick of hearing about Dean

I voted for Dean out here in CA where it didn't matter but I wanted to vote for him. It was painful to see his campaign crash and burn.

But it crashed and it burned.

And he wasted $40 million without producing one good ad.

In the meantime, he was labeled as "angry" and "unbalanced". The jok on the blog was media hysteria because of the daily headline "Dean said something."

Can you imagine the mincemeat Rove would have made out of his every move?

And at this point his insistence on recounts when he's 3 million votes behind and there's no firm evidence of fraud would be used as further "evidence" that Dean is "unbalanced" and "angry".

Kucinich would look shrill and nutty like he often did on the stump.

Clark would likely be a bit more forceful than Kerry but still not doggedly pursuing this like many here wish.

I do agree wholeheartedly that Kerry is being a total wuss about this. He has his fortune and his houses and his legacy and he doesn't have anything to lose by taking a strong stand against voter fraud, intimidation, disenfranchisement, discrimination. His silence has doomed his political future anyway. He could redeem himself with a vehement statement against this mess and a course of action regarding counting the votes - by ending this political self-protection and stand up for the nation instead of his career. Ironically, putting his career on the line to set things right is the only thing that will save it.

[Shalom]

77. We Know In Our Hearts and Minds There Is Fraud, But....

There is no hard evidence yet that PROVES it....

[Spiffarino]

78. And there won't be

...unless and until the neocons are forced to show their hand.

It will require coordination. We need a powerful voice. We need the Democratic Party, the Kerry campaign, MoveOn.org, Soros, and anybody else who has the means to coordinate marches, protests, phone banks, LTTEs. We have to make ourselves a downright nuisance or they just won't listen.

We cannot let this go away. We must be heard, but we can't do it by ourselves in time to make a difference. We need help. Jesse Jackson's protest was a start, but it was a small one.

DNC, Kerry, I hope you are listening. We need a higher profile.


Editted for speling and grammer. And a run-on sentence.

[politicasista]

81. I can't believe he is going to let Smirky get away with this.

[dzika]

84. "...you've literally got to beat the shit out of John Kerry..."

From: Washington Square News
Issue date: 11.29.2004

http://www.nyunews.com/news/campus/8429.html

Kerry aide pans nasty Bush run

by Jesse Greenspan
Contributing Writer

-snip-
Trbovich has known Kerry for more than 30 years, he said, and
even worked as communications director of Kerry's failed 1972
congressional campaign. He said the Massachusetts senator has
more integrity and intelligence than almost anyone else he
knows. He added, however, that unlike Bill Clinton, Kerry's
intellect is at stronger than his political ear.

"Excuse my language, but you've literally got to beat the shit
out of John Kerry sometimes to get him where you want him to
go," he said. •