Nothing else matters

[Carl Brennan]

but straightening out this collossal mess of a voting system.

There are alot of people on these message boards trying to get the focus off of the election fraud 2004. They are talking about campaign 2008, the Lacy Peterson trial, Fallujah, etc. They 're saying a recount or revote will never be done, Kerry is a coward (coincidently what they tried to label him in the campaign), etc. It sounds alot like the "get over it", or "move on" conservatives from Selection 2000. Cleverly Moveon.org was named after the " move on" and "get over it" crowd of Selection 2000. Some of these people calling for an end to contesting this election have alot of posts, maybe some are simply tired of it all, and think Kerry is copping out, etc. that is understandable. But others might have simply rung up a large number of posts and are just now making their move as part of a Psy-ops effort by the Bush-boy to shut us down.

I posted a topic on the CIA's tampering/rigging elections. As someone who read it said about this topic; it by itself is a justification for an investigation into the voting system.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x47274


There really isn't any point in talking about future elections, or, in my opinion, participating in any more of them until we straighten out the voting system. The only way that is going to get done is to find out what happened in this one first. And the only way that is going to get done is to continue with the process now in progress. We must insist, most reasonably, there be no certification until all the votes are counted. In addition there is a case to be made for re-voting for those who, for one reason or another beyond their control, were denied the opportunity to cast their ballot.

Don't be distracted by the naysayers. There is nothing else to do but investigate what happened during this election and correct it. Nothing.


The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which all other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery. - Thomas Paine

[FullCountNotRecount]

1. Halleluja!

And amen, my fellow citizen!

[saddemocrat]

2. I think..

people are just expressing their frustrations (myself included). The fact that the MM has not only NOT picked this up, but has basically invalidated this story can caused even the most arduent believers to pause and wonder "Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?"

It is incumbent upon us to simply understand that 'doubt happens' and to remind people of the facts.

[Cocoa]

3. that's the wrong way to look at it

people should be concerned about the voting system, very concerned.

But you're crossing a line when you say everyone MUST focus on this to the exclusion of everything else, and that anyone who doesn't is in some other category of person, a "naysayer" and they should be shunned.

That absoulutist attitude is seriously freaky, and, frankly, to me, suspicious.

[Carl Brennan]

8. I think you may have misunderstood me.

I never said "all" people who don't focus on this topic are naysayers. Take another look at the topic.

And I did not say that voting is the only subject of relevance. The quote by Thomas Paine is my take as well. :hi:

[Cocoa]

10. actually you did

you explicitly said "nothing else matters" and titled your thread that way.

And you do suggest taking a dim view of dissenters, a hallmark (and red flag) of the BBV discussion on DU.

So I think I understood you correctly.

[Carl Brennan]

11. actually I didn't.

nothing else matters is only half the sentence. It's in the obvious context of a political discussion.

Trust me. ;)

[m berst]

12. I disagree very strongly with you

"And you do suggest taking a dim view of dissenters, a hallmark (and red flag) of the BBV discussion on DU."

Your post does precisely what you accuse the op of doing. His strong advocacy of focusing on the election fraud to the exclusion of anything else right now carries with it no implication - "red flag" in your words - of suppression.

This is very strange, as you are raising the specter of suppression, supposedly being done by others, in your attempt to suppress them.

[Minstrel Boy]

4. Without integrity of the vote, Americans need to STOP voting.

You're right - nothing is more important.

Posted some thoughts on my blog a few days ago:


Mock the Vote

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre." - Frank Zappa


It would be quaint in hindsight, if the naiveté weren't so heartbreaking: eminem's rebel army clad in black hoodies, moshing through the streets, charging up the steps and straight through the doors of the...polling station?

Oh yeah, about that. Funny thing....

If it's true that this election was stolen, then it was the third straight theft. It was a relatively crude operation in 2000; 2002 was the first occasion for unaudited ballots to be counted by unregulated Republican machines, and bizarre returns saw Republican candidates win surprising victories. If 2004 was stolen (and let's get this straight: it's not a "conspiracy theory," it's a working hypothesis), then there's no comfort in presuming the theft an anomaly. This isn't better luck next time. The machinery with their backdoors are in place, and the means, motive and opportunity to steal will persist. Rather than a one-off, or three, this is the future of American electoral politics: a technological upgrade of Mexico's of the last century, with the GOP essaying the role of the Institutional Revolutionary Party.

The normalization of fraudulent elections - even elections which simply cannot be verified due to faith-based proprietary software - means American democracy is now a sham. Americans of good conscience who see Zappa's brick wall, and who hope to strip the Right of its fraudulant mandate, need to stop lending it the cover of their engagement in the hoax. Participating in a fraud provides it with de facto legitimacy, while what the fraud really deserves is delegitimizing.

If Americans fail to win back the integrity of their vote, then Americans need to stop voting.

This isn't a call to opt out. A boycot of electoral piracy is not the same as encouraging voter apathy. Rather, it's taking the compromise of one's vote so gravely that it is withheld in protest.

What would become of the Democratic Party if a good number of Democrats withheld their votes? Certain loss, undoubtedly. But what will become of the party if Republican machinery counts its vote in perpetuity? Of course, if the trojan virus of the DLC wins the day, and the party tacks further right, it will cease to matter whether the vote is rigged or not. Even East Bloc states boasted minority parties, which gave their constitutional assemblies the semblance of plurality. Left unchecked, this is the fate of the Democratic Party.

True despots rarely allow themselves to be voted out of office. But in the end, every despotic regime has only as much legitimacy as its citizens are prepared to confer upon it. When the people recognize the regime's claims as illegitimate, suddenly its hold on power melts away. People have taken back their countries in relative peace. And just like fascism, it too, can happen here.

There is no more important fight for the Democrats than that for a verifiable vote. Republicans have their own answer for voting "irregularities": an end to exit polling. If the status quo, or worse, is in place next election, then Democrats ought to make their own democracy elsewhere.

Get out the vote? Fuck that shit. Get out your pots and pans, like the people of Belgrade, and bang them loud and long until America's Milosevic receives the message.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/11/mock-vote.html

[IronLionZion]

5. Moveon started in the late 90s

to get the assholes off Clinton's penis. That man was doing so much good for the country, and the wrong wing tried to destroy him for getting a blow job. That's why they wanted to "move on"

And yes, we need to reform the elections system or we we won't have fair elections in 2006 or 2008 either. I would strongly support a more standardized, simpler, way to vote where there is a paper trail for recounts and is very accurate and affordable and so on. And election day needs to be a holiday.

Face it people, in a fair election, people in poor urban and rural districts will have the same opportunity to vote and be counted as the rich suburban districts. Working people should have the same opportunity as their employers and other rich people. Then the Democrats will dominate.

If we can throw in some real campaign finance reform that gives our candidates a fair playing field, we can finally flush the shit out of our corporate-dominated government. pigs will fly out of my ass before that happens though. :(

[Carl Brennan]

9. My bad, I heard about Moveon from Rhandi Rhodes.

[havocmom]

6. The fact that the coup was allowed in 2000 set the stage for 04

Anyone who didn't see it coming needs to lose the rose colored lenses.

The junta flew the trial balloon of 'possibly needing to cancel election
due to terrorist threat' and that was shot down. So what they did was to cancel it due to 'technical difficulties' but the went through with the charade of letting people vote, well some of them anyway.

There was no election in 2004 in America. There was a really nasty campaign and a pre-arranged result but there was no election. And if we let that stand, there never will be an election here again.

I stand amazed: Americans wonder how the German people let Hitler rise to power. They wonder about how tyrants manage to stay in power. They marvel at the Iraqi people putting up with Saddam until the PNAC 'liberated' them. And then so many just shrug off the usurping of power by criminals in the US. Just too awful to think of it. Too horrible to interrupt their daily diversions.

All it took for evil to triumph was to pretend it won fair and square so we could all get back to our favorite reality shows and ignore that the nation needs to be defended on a daily basis.

[dkofos]

14. It started before the 2000 selection

Was it Hagel in Nebraska (CEO of the voting machine company) in 96 senate race. First repug senator in Neb. in 25 yrs or so.
Wouldn't doubt if that is is how b*** was selected Gov. of Tex. in 94.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[havocmom]

16. You are correct, of course. But 96 was sorta Hagel strutting his stuff

to show what was possible.

Anybody doubt he will be front and center in 08?

[scarletwoman]

7. Major factual error in your rant, btw.

MoveOn was founded during the Clinton administration, in response to the impeachment fracas. They were calling on the country to "move on" from the b.s. I hope you will correct your post.

I totally agree with the prime importance of cleaning up the U.S. election process. I also believe that it is just one piece of the huge work ahead of us to take back our government.

sw

[marylanddem]

13. I think I know what you mean

There is an urgency about dealing with this that we're feeling - that until this is resolved it's hard to care about Scott Peterson or any of the other nonsense...except for the horrific thing going on in Iraq - which is why we have to do everything we can to seek the truth about the election, even if there's only a glimmer of a possibility that the smirking chimp cheated his way into a second term...

[floridadem30]

15. Well said

[godblessthebeastinme]

17. keep it in the news

Whatever we can do to keep this issue interesting to the press, we should do.

Forget trying to change this election. The only thing that can change the election at this stage would be a photo of Dick Cheney and Karl Rove peeing on an Accuvote machine while a group of naked second graders cheer them on.

But if we keep the conversation going long enough, people will start to doubt the legitimacy of the republican manddate.


Which is good for us because it undermines them. We're going to have some nasty battles ahead of us.

So fuck the truth, think like a PR person, and get the story out there.

-trevor

-

[TheNonPanderer]

18. The signal has been given

Shut EM DOWNNNNN!!!!!

Time to call these naysayer "Theorists" and let them have the arsenal.

All we are saying is check the totals...

Don't listen and carry forward...

[bullimiami]

19. exactly. nothing else matters.

we can do or say anything and if the system isnt fixed we will just keep losing.

if we fix it we are the majority and we have the motivation.

[dewaldd]

20. Absolutely!

[EndElectoral]

21. Excellent Post Carol!....Below are the media's definitions of us

Conspiracy Theorists = DU wackos

Voter Fraud = something only to be spoken about before the election

Glitches = Those wild and crazy things that we all know happen to computers, and who really cares why or how?

Errors = Things only a few senile senior citizens make at the polling place, and c'mon most are volunters so give them a break Everyone makes errors.

Irregularities = Isolated incidents that happen in every election. Sort of like those a bad bowel movements that crops up once in awhile every four years. Everybody knows these things only happen in the rare county. How do we know? We simply never check sufficiently anywhere else.

Investigative Journalism = The latest on the Pederson case or Janet Jackson's boob.

[dissenting_voter]

22. I whole-heartedly agree with Carl Brennan

This is the biggest event in our lifetimes. The possibility of election fraud, as evidenced by so many inconsistencies in exit polling against "actual" vote tallies, gross inconsistencies between number of registered Democrats and votes cast, vote counting machines giving thousands more votes to Bush, and ALL of these things and more consistently giving the advantage to George Bush should make us all confidently assert that foul play has occured. Simply dismissing the issue a massive, overarching and muli-state coincidence is utter foolishness.

Getting most people to see these facts is our chief mission. This is not merely about Kerry becoming president, it is about MUCH more. If the vote count in Ohio proves in favor of Kerry or gross irregularities are brought to light in Florida as proof of tampering:

1. This could can into question the results of many other Senate and House elections, possibly turning THEM over as well. If there is vote fixing, the presidency is not the only box on the ballot. Why would the Republicans stop at fixing ONLY the presidencial vote if they could steal other races as well?

2. The media, left included (i.e. Michael Moore, The Nation, etc.) would be forced to self-examination, and possibly we could see a revolution in the media, from the Right, to the "fair and balanced" as each would question its collusion with the Bush Administration and Republicans after those entities had been thoroughly discredited...

3. The Right/Republicans/Bush Administation would be thoroughly discredited. When tampering of the election system is found the Right will inevitably be viewed as the perpetrators, not computer hackers or zealous Republican poll workers. If, let's say the Ohio vote is overturned, it will lead to other states being reevaluated as well. If that happens more fraud will be uncovered and the whole thing will crash down around the ears of the Republicans. They may not rise from the ashes for DECADES. Because of their part in the crime, the "moral" party would be viewed for what they are: a cabal of organized criminals. The Repubs righteous followers would reevaluate their support of such moral crooks and in the process reevaluate themselves, turning their backs on people who will be lumped with the Richard Nixons of the world. In place of Republican leadership, Democratic Party, whom everyone is critical of right now, would rise up as the party who condemned such crimes, the party moral party who conducted themselves with honor...

4. The Democratic Party would gain the high ground. Not only would all talk of the LOSS by the Party immediately stop with a Kerry victory, but all talk of a Democratic Party reformation would halt as well. We would have won. Our efforts to get out the vote and Kerry's campaign would be viewed as the success that it was. This moral mandate the Right is now claiming would be null and void should the mere 137,000 vote Bush margin in Ohio be closed then overtaken by Kerry. Even if uncovered results did not come out in favor of the Democrats in the House and Senate, the Dems would now hold the moral high ground. With that would come a new confidence to stand up to Republicans in government. Our party would find its voice again and boldly go forward with its most progressive policies.

5. American Democracy would be saved. If the election is turned around, WE would have saved nothing less than American Democracy itself by our efforts. If elections are allowed to be fixed in this election, they WILL be fixed in the next election and on into the future. Ask youself, why would the Neo-Conservatives allow a free election next time if they stole this one? Soon we will be controlled completely by a single party, whether the PERCEPTION of representative government is maintained by a House and Senate or not. And that, simply put, is a tyranny, a totalitarian system not unlike Stalinist Soviet Union, Hitler's Germany or Saddam's Iraq.

Therefore, indeed little else matters in these times except exposing the election fraud that occurred on November 2. Our responsibility is to keep the issue fresh and in the minds of as many people as we can right now, and try to stay focused. Already the mainstream media is acknowleding our efforts, albeit in a disparaging way. What matters about that is that we have made an impact already, and with enough gadflies buzzing the ears of enough people the story WILL rise to the surface, we WILL see results. We have been a part of the Nader recount in Hew Hampshire when we flooded his fax machine with our outrage. Our data has been used and cited by John Conyers in his GAO investigation request. We have sparked enough interest in the issue to give the Greens and Libertarians inspiration to call for a recount. Our donations are are now nearly enough to call tha recount. It is US who have helped Bev Harris, Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy in her efforts to keep this message on the Air America Radio. It is US who have kept Keith Olberman talking about the issue on MSNBC with our positive e-mails in spite of the rest of the media refusing coverage. WE are the heart and soul of this movement, and it is up to US to stay with it, put a good portion of our energies into it and see it through to the end.