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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 10:13 AM
Original message
Edited on Tue Aug-16-05 10:27 AM by TruthIsAll
While the naysayers, those who are still pushing the coincidence theory that Bush actually got more votes, are a vanishing breed.

You will see them show up at DU whenever a spreadsheet is posted showing why the Bush "win" was an implausible, faith-based manifestation of RW intelligent design.

http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/voter_fraud.ht...

No Paper Trail Left Behind:
The Theft of the 2004 Presidential Election

By Dennis Loo, Ph.D.
Cal Poly Pomona


snip

In November 2004 major U.S. media gave headline news treatment to the Ukrainian Presidential election fraud, explicitly citing the exit polls as definitive evidence of fraud. At the very same time major U.S. media dismissed anyone who pointed out this same evidence of likely fraud in the U.S. elections as conspiracy theory crazies. A November 11, 2004 Washington Post article, for example, described people raising the question of fraud as mortally wounded party loyalists and spreadsheet-wielding conspiracy theorists. Tom Zeller, Jr. handled it similarly, writing in the November 12, 2004 issue of the New York Times (Vote Fraud Theories, Spread by Blogs, Are Quickly Buried): he email messages and Web postings had all the twitchy cloak-and-dagger thrust of a Hollywood blockbuster. Evidence mounts that the vote may have been hacked, trumpeted a headline on the Web site CommonDreams.org. Fraud took place in the 2004 election through electronic voting machines, declared BlackBoxVoting.org.

Neither of these articles bothered to address even a fraction of the evidence of irregularities. They did, however, both dismiss the 93,000 excess votes in Cuyahoga County, Ohio as merely an error in how the votes were reported, the Washington Post article offering the strange explanation that in even-numbered years the county posts vote totals from other districts outside the county in the Cuyahoga totals. The Washington Post passed off the exit polls discrepancy as not being based on statistics since the exit polls are not publicly distributed. Both of these statements were untrue. The New York Times article for its part failed to even mention exit polls. Both articles explained away the glaring and unbelievable totals for Bush in hugely Democratic districts as due to the Dixiecrat vote. This would be plausible except for two things: first, Bush did not win over any more crossover votes in 2004 than he did in 2000, and second, these votes far in excess of Republican registered voters numbers occurred primarily in non-rural areas. In just one example of this, Baker County, Florida, out of 12,887 registered voters, of whom 69.3% were Democrats and 24.3% Republicans, Bush received 7,738 votes while Kerry only received 2,180. As Robert Parry of Consortiumnews.org points out:

Rather than a rural surge of support, Bush actually earned more than seven out of 10 new votes in the 20 largest counties in Florida. Many of these counties are either Democratic strongholds such as Miami-Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach or they are swing counties, such as Orange, Hillsborough, and Duval.

Many of these large counties saw substantially more newly registered Democrats than Republicans. For example, in Orange County, a swing county home to Orlando, Democrats registered twice as many new voters than Republicans in the years since 2000. In Palm Beach and Broward combined, Democrats registered 111,000 new voters compared with fewer than 20,000 new Republicans.

The only person in major media to treat these complaints seriously and at any length was Keith Olbermann at MSNBC who ran two stories on it, citing Cuyahoga Countys surplus 93,000 votes over the registered voter count, and the peculiar victories for Bush in Florida counties that were overwhelmingly Democratic scattered across the state. For his trouble, media conservatives attacked him for being a voice of paranoia and spreading idiotic conspiracy theories.

more..


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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent article - thanks for posting. This reminds me of waking up early
and waiting for everyone else to get up.
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Exactly.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kick.nt
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. kicked and nominated
thanks for posting TIA, and great title.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nice article/wrong conclusion.
Edited on Tue Aug-16-05 01:18 PM by Bill Bored
This article, while nicely documenting the corruption of the electoral process, comes to the wrong conclusion: that voting doesn't matter.

Worst case, we might be able to pick up a few crumbs in states with verifiable elections and this could make the difference if Dems can stop defecting on votes on such matters as bankruptcy and CAFTA. If the Dems take control of committees in the House and/or Senate, they can make a difference as well. Imagine Conyers with Sensenbrenner's job!

I am starting to see now why some here think of you as a Freeper TIA, although personally, I don't. But of all the things to post on an election forum, why pick the one that says we should give up voting? Hmmmm....

It's still hard to reverse a landslide and there is always that chance too, as long we don't stay home on Election Day, or those hackable Early Voting Days.

Peace.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. It's worse than that. He makes it seem that optiscan is flawless!
That's a big misdirection.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Still standing.
Not getting over it.

2+2 still equals four.

2004 still equals "stolen".


NGU.


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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. alas...
In political science, most folks aren't bothering to "push the coincidence theory that Bush actually got more votes" because they take it for granted. Not to single out political science... where exactly is this breed vanishing, anyway?

I don't understand why the Baker numbers are in there, since I thought the point was to emphasize what happened in non-rural areas. Looks like about half of Baker is in the Okefenokee Swamp (no, I don't mean this figuratively) -- with about 12K voters, not so cosmopolitan. (This is one of the northern counties that has skewed Democratic in registration, Republican in presidential votes for a while -- which isn't to say that votes couldn't be stolen there, although not very many votes, because there aren't very many votes to steal.) It makes sense to focus more on the largest counties, as the Hout study did.

Does anyone know what the bit about "more than seven out of 10 new votes in the 20 largest counties" means? According to my numbers, in Miami-Dade, Bush 04 got about 37K more votes than Bush 00 (I think these were pre-certified #s) and Kerry 04 got about 54K more votes than Gore 00. In Broward, Bush 04 got almost 59K more than Bush 00, and Kerry 04 about 54K more than Gore 00. Those are by far the largest counties. There are other counties with big vote gains, some of which broke sharply Bush, but I can't see where a 70% figure could come from. I assume the article means something different by "new votes," but what?
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Alas, a political scientist who takes it for granted that Bush won.
Edited on Tue Aug-16-05 05:07 PM by TruthIsAll
"In political science, most folks aren't bothering to "push the coincidence theory that Bush actually got more votes" because they take it for granted. Not to single out political science... where exactly is this breed vanishing, anyway?"

Out of the closet.

Now that it's official that you are a confirmed naysayer, why don't you prevail on your buddies at the AAORP to get Mitofsky et al to release the full, raw, pristine exit data - if it still exists, that is.

Prove it.

Oh, you can't prove that Bush won?
The votes are lost in cyberspace.
And you still believe Bush won?

Did you also believe him when he said Saddam had WMD?
And that he never considered that airplanes would be used as missiles ?
And that he's a compassionate conservative?
And that Jeb Bush had nothing to do with the Florida 2000 theft?
And that he would get to the bottom of the Plame leak?
And that he never went AWOL?
And that he won Ohio?

But you still believe that he got more votes?

HAVA drink on me.







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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. looks like you misread the post
I didn't say that _I_ take it for granted that Bush won. Good golly, how many times do we have to go through that?

Care to try again? Can anyone help on the substantive questions? The writer is quoting someone who is probably citing someone else, but I don't know whom.
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chrisclub Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-16-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. How many voted?
"4) Floridas reporting of more presidential votes (7.59 million) than actual number of people who voted (7.35 million), a surplus of 237,522 votes, does not indicate fraud."

Can someone explain where the "people who voted" number comes from?

Do you have a link that explains it?

TIA
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick - In tribute to his tremendous contributions - WHY??? :( n/t
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kicking for truth, justice, and TIA's invaluable work.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-27-05 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. kick nt
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-05 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick.nt
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