Are you ever encouraged to just give up?

[Pacifist Patriot]

I probably should have vented here in the first place and avoided a huge misunderstanding but the situation goes beyond my activities in election reform and encompasses practically everything I do politically.

I understand feeling discouraged and overwhelmed every once in awhile, but do you have OTHER people telling you it's not worth the trouble? It seems like every time I turn around lately someone is telling me that:

- The Democratic Party is dead so don't bother working your precinct anymore.

- The compromise spelled the death knell of democracy and if you believe otherwise you're deluded.

- I don't know why you bothered writing that letter to the editor. Even if it gets published it won't change anyone's mind.

- The fix is in so don't bother campaigning for your Democratic senatorial candidate in 2006.

- We're beyond the point of being able to do anything about election fraud so don't bother trying.

It's driving me crazy because I am not getting this from Republicans or Indendents, I'm getting it from fellow Democrats. Fine, give me some ideas and constructive criticism, but stop telling me to give up! Sorry if I offend anyone, but I'm going to call a spade a spade. The people who are saying this to me ARE Defeatist Democrats. What else do you call it when they continue to identify themselves as Democrats but have thrown up their hands in defeat?

End of rant. Thank you.

[Boredtodeath]

1. At every Democratic Meetup, yes

But not by rank and file DEMS, party leaders.

I get a lot "shhh, the legislators might hear you" about election reform, but it has never stopped me in my 2+ year battle.

You know why I don't quit? Because a SINGLE leader is trying to shut me up, but the attendees (the on the ground DEMs) are screaming "Go, go, go!"

[Pacifist Patriot]

5. I'm feeling fortunate in that regard.

The Dem leaders around here pretty much all came from the Dean, Kucinich and Kerry campaigns. We had a huge coup in November and ousted the "old guard." We're not afraid to talk election reform or fraud with elected officials. We had a grand time grilling our Supervisor of Elections a few months back.

[Shoeempress]

2. You are completely right, and I hope you point out the revolution

which created our country was a battle between idealists and one of the world's greatest military mights, the civil rights movement was a small group of people who were up against everyone including our government, that the wingnuts came to power by chipping away at our countries strengths.

[SmokingJacket]

3. Never give up!

I haven't seen too much of people saying otherwise; why would they bother posting on DU if they feel that way?

I thought the compromise was lame but hardly the death knell of democracy.

That rang back in 2000, anyway! ;-)

Here's another take: Some of us might be hoping, consciously or unconsciously, that the Dems will stand back and allow the Right Wing to self-destruct.

Part of me thinks that the sooner we hit bottom, the sooner the repubs will eat itself alive. Which will be something to see...

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. Oh I think the majority of people at DU are here because they are

fighters. But there are a hell of a lot more registered democrats than there are regular participants at DU. I'm having to bite my lip with one particular lady at monthly DEC meetings. She never has anything positive to say. I wonder why she is even there at all.

[AtLiberty]

6. The number one reason I fight is for my children...

It would be very tempting to put my feet up if I didn't have this daily reminder.

It's very discouraging when fellow Dems tell me they're offended when I tell them that meaningful election reform is THE issue. The whales can't be saved without election reform...

[Pacifist Patriot]

7. That's why I do it too.

I want them to feel they have some degree of input in their lives. Without election reform they will not have that confidence.

[FogerRox]

8. yes its about the kids---god that is so important

I am proud of my father serving in the Navy in 1945 --(Pacific).

your kids (if we win this overall battle) will be proud ---

the history teacher asks the students if they know about the Bush regime back in the early part of the century----
" my Dad worked for election reform back in "04 and thats how we kicked out the Bush regime in "05" ----

You can give them that legacy. Now thats something to work for.

[Kip Humphrey]

14. I do do it for my kids - That's why "I Showed Up" is an important reminder

that I did what I could to leave my kids a legacy of democracy with integrity. We may not win this year or next. It may take 20 years, but we will win. When I tire or feel frustrated I pull out my "I Showed Up buttons and pi them on.

If you don't have one, get one at The Protest Store
It comes in handy!

[Blue Shark]

9. Because I believe the...

...Presidency and the majorities in both houses are fraudulent, I can understand your frustration, but all of us keep missing the obvious.

...We keep feeling that the Republicans have so sucessfully rigged the vote (and will continue to do so) that nothing will ever change.

...WRONG!

...Welcome to electoral politics in the 21st century. We can beat them at this game people. If the tabulators are so easy to hack...hack the fuckers. If the exit polls show a smashing dem win...MAKE SURE THEY ARE RIGHT...and much sweeter if the polls show a narrow republican win coming make sure that somehow, mysteriously, all the Dems won the races they were projected to lose. Our response to that..."Get over it".

...Lastly, If we refuse to play the game with today's rules, and let me be clear here...HE WHO CHEATS BEST WINS (and has for a decade), we ARE irrelevant. If we don't have the candidates with the cajones to cry fraud when it is so obviously the case, we will lose now, tommorow, the next time and the next until the Dems go the way of the Whigs.

...Think about it. No way the nightmare in Washington is legitimate. We owe it to America to win and set things right. We can afford to be righteous...AFTER we control the WH, Senate, House, Media, and the Judiciary.

[Blue Shark]

10. Also remember...

...The Dems didn't drag this down into the sewer, the Republicans did. We need to climb out of that electoral sewer by any means possible.

...so before all the flames and hand-wringing over legal niceties ask yourselves if they stole the last three election cycles (or more)how long do we want to be vicitms? There is no white-hatted rangers who are going to ride in and save our democracy. We have to do this ourselves. Don't kid yourselves, we are in a political guerilla war and we have been losing soldiers, and generals for a long time with out realizing it.

The other side holds the White House, the Senate, the House, the Media and the Judiciary by using the very means we decry. After all Gentlemen don't cheat. Well look around at the dry drunk and his band of boobs. You folks see any gentlemen there?

[1956]

11. yes, keep up the fight

FOR OUR KIDS! I mean, if so much can change in 5 yrs of *, then what's America going to be like when they have a chance to vote? I am sometimes paranoid that voting will be completely taken away from all of us! That would truly be the end!! A lot more than just voting is at stake as well!! WE MUST KEEP UP THE FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FogerRox]

12. Right on Brother BLue shark

I am that white-hatted ranger--have 6 gun-- will travel

I am from parents that fought thru the drepression---then fought thru WW2.

I have what it takes to fight the good fight--and win this is what my parents imparted to me as I was raised.

I am in the trenches yelling charge.

we are the front line troops

We are the generals

And just like my father, he fought the Axis allied nazis-- I also fight these NEO nazis.

check this new thread out--its about the KIDS--
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x372210

[starmaker]

13. We will count

We the People of America are united
only when our voices can
be heard through our vote.
We are tired of the voter suppression so
rampant across our country designed
to keep minorities from voting.
We are fed up with the fact that voting is allowed on
machines without a record of the voters intent
We question the honesty of the vote count as
machines tabulate without adequate
hand count verfication.
We understand that the right to vote
and the right to count our vote
is the key to our democracy
and our faith in america.
We intend to illuminate all problems
with our voting system,
support legislative and legal actions
undertaken,and encourage citizen action
in our quest for accessable open transparent
and honest elections.
We will count.

[Peace Patriot]

15. The people who are feeling defeatist, because of the Junta's crude...

...power-mongering, are suffering a form of brainwashing. They are still plugged into this absurd delusion of democracy that the news monopolies create. Its key message is that you are powerless--and people who succumb to this delusion (many) keep going back to it, because it seems to say the opposite: that you are part of "the nation" (and therefore powerful) by virtue of watching TV and participating in this delusion.

The delusion, of course, has nothing to say about 2004 election fraud or about its own falsification of the exit poll data on everybody's TV screens on election night. These things don't exist in the news monopoly-created delusion that you are powerful and part of "the nation." So, the brainwashed don't know about election fraud, or, if they do, they don't credit it. They don't value that knowledge and what it means.

They need to, a) unplug from the delusion, b) study the facts and acknowledge 2004 election fraud (if they haven't), and understand what it means, that we have suffered a fascist coup, and c) get practical and fight for election reform at the state/local level.

Bear in mind that you are dealing with brainwashed people--people who don't really believe in their own power. They need to be supported as to thinking independently, and they need to be EMpowered. They need to be treated gently, not badgered. They are really in a bad state of mind.

The thing that happened to us all on Nov. 2, 2004 was catastrophic. Here we had created the most fabulous GOTV campaign in the history of the country. We smashed the Bushites in new voter reg, nearly 60/40. We created a 60% voter turnout. We convinced new voters. We convinced independents. We convinced Nader voters. We got everybody out to vote--all the non-voters among family, friends and co-workers. "You've got to vote THIS TIME," was the mantra.

And we furthermore created an unprecedented coalition of the grass roots and the DNC. (ABB!!).

It was an unbeatable campaign, which I am convinced that we won, possibly by a landslide.

And it all got smashed to hell by election fraud. It was a terrible blow. People are still reeling from it--and have reacted in different ways (from denial and defeatism, all the way to the other end of the spectrum, the awakening of a new commitment to democracy, rediscovery of our country's founding principles, and iron determination to fight back).

But do be aware of how bad the blow was--and of how little anchorage people have now. We can't trust the Democratic leadership any more (they let us down long before the election, by their permitting a fraudulent election SYSTEM without protest). We can't trust the news monopolies. We certainly can't trust the federal government. We can't even trust the League of Women voters (leadership pro-electronic voting, rank and file against).

Have patience with people of good heart, even if they seem obnoxiously dense. The chances are they really aren't. They are just in an unacknowledged state of shock.

[TexasLawyer]

16. All the more reason for solving this crime.

When elections can be easily rigged, it saps the entire political process of its vitality. If people perceive that they will be on the losing side (i.e., the side that doesn't cheat) people won't register, people won't vote, the best candidates won't run for office, candidates won't be given campaign contributions, candidates won't be taken seriously by the press, and on and on.

The crime perpetrated against Democracy-- stealing votes and suppressing voters-- is unspeakably huge. It is up to people like us to make noise, keep this issue alive and kicking, to help uncovered who did this and bring them to justice.

[YvonneCa]

17. I'll never give up...

...I believe there's more than one way to serve your country. This is a fight for the preservation of the democracy and country we love. It's about the future for our children and grandchildren. How can it be okay to give up on that ????:patriot:

[KaliTracy]

18. yes... people kind of roll their eyes when I bring up yet another

connection or other information. Do have a couple of real-time acquaintances who understand, everyone else thinks "so what can we do, we're screwed" and leaves it at that.

edit:typo

[autorank]

19. Check out this GD thread to see if I've given up

WAKE the F*CK UP: **Stop Election Fraud** Advice--Rep. John Conyers,D,M I

[emlev]

20. They're just playing back their internal recorded message...

Believing things are hopeless is what keeps them able to justify their inaction.
You threaten that hard-won ounce of comfort by taking action.
On some level, they're begging you to convince them it *is* worth the fight.
Nobody wants to be stuck in hopelessness like that.
Can you translate what they say? When their words are, "It's hopeless," (or some such) can you teach yourself to hear it as, "Pleeeeease tell me there's still hope!"
Can I? Can all of us?

[FreepFryer]

21. Sadly, it'll take more stolen elections to convince many conventionalists.

It's too ugly of a fact for many people to look at directly.

That doesn't mean it didn't happen - and it doesn't mean we're not in the fight of our collective lives as Americans who believe in the rights of the people to choose their leader.

It's a fundamental issue that underscores the corrupt erosion of our nation's governmental process - and like so many other issues in the public dialogue (or indeed, absent from the dialogue) many are too comfortable in the current circumstances to see what is really going on.

[Mistwell]

22. One of those is true

"- I don't know why you bothered writing that letter to the editor. Even if it gets published it won't change anyone's mind."

While the others are false, I have to say that this one is true. Readership of all newspapers has declined to extremely low levels. Reports on what people who actually do buy newspapers actually read in those papers always shows that the letters to the editor page ranks very, VERY low on the readership levels (and few people who read that page read all of the letters). And of those who do actually read the paper, many will already agree with you and just move on.

Combine those facts, and you would do better shouting your opinion in a movie theatre than getting your letter published in a newspaper.

Spend your time calling in to talk radio shows if you want to reach more people. Heck, your message HERE probably reaches more people I suspect.

[Mistwell]

24. What a coincidence

A day after I write that, this comes out:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000935914

[kster]

23. NOPE !

"What else do you call it when they continue to identify themselves as Democrats but have thrown up their hands in defeat"?


Brainwashed by the media.


We are not in this fight to lose. KEEP PUSHING........