Do we know how the military voted yet?

[loveable liberal]

There was a big hubbub about it in November but I really havent heard anything about it since. How did the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan vote? Or is it still a secret?

[ogradda]

1. Still a secret.

Which should tell us something right there I think.:evilgrin:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Give the man a cigar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:evilgrin: :yourock: :applause: :applause: :popcorn:

[bleever]

26. Nice to see you over here. n/t

[boneygrey]

3. Good God

Get over it and move on.:banghead:

[DRoseDARs]

6. God forbid someone ask a legitimate question... n/t

:eyes:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DRoseDARs]

8. Did your mom teach you this...

...or were you born this assinine? People research voting history and statistics all the time across many years of the republic. Who the Hell are you to chide this person for asking?

[mahina]

11. It's not an either or question.

I will not get over it and I am focusing on 06.

[lonestarnot]

14. 2006 meaningless unless we fix 2004!

[patricia92243]

15. Yes, Yes.

[mahina]

10. Get over it?

Get over fair and legal elections. That is a disgrace to the men and women who fought for our freedom.

Right here buddy.

[Chi]

17. Good God don't come to '2004 elections results' ...

if you don't want to hear it.

[MadisonProgressive]

22. Bye Bye Boney

[tritsofme]

4. How would we know?

How would anybody know?

Its a secret ballot...

[rooboy]

5. There was only one place where the military vote was known...

according to Thom Hartmann on his radio show. Apparently one particular state/district/whatever actually did have a split of the military votes for that area, and the vote was apparently 2 to 1 in favor of Kerry.

It's not enough to build a case on, but does make you think...

[Melissa G]

29. Link please n/t

[rooboy]

36. www.thomhartmann.com

go through the show archives and find it. My post said it was on a RADIO show.

[Vektor]

9. The statistic has never been released -

But you know the votes have been tallied. If Shrub got the military vote, you know the Bush-loving MSM, especially FAUX would be SCREAMING it from the rafters. It's quite telling that not a whisper has been heard. A high school friend of mine was in Iraq at the time of the election, and word on the street there is it was 70/30 in favor of Kerry.

They'll never tell us the figure, because Shrub did not get the vote of the troops overseas.

[tritsofme]

12. Who would tally these votes, and how?

Some states may release the overall data from absentee ballots, but these wouldn't distinguish active duty GIs from citizens living overseas.

There's no way to distinguish when the GI is back home from his tour.

I would guess that career soldiers broke heavily for Bush, whereas National Guard types that are having their duties extended ever longer broke for Kerry. But that's as good a guess as anyone's.

[Vektor]

13. I apologize, I did not clarify -

I was referring to active duty enlisted personnel and overseas absentee ballots sent specifically by soldiers from the middle east, which can be accounted for as such. Polling could also help determine voting trends among this group as well. As I said, this was "word on the street" not a proven, reported fact. After all, the MSM isn't reporting. Just what one soldier told me. He is a marine and was referring to all troops in this bracket, from all branches, not just National Guard or reservists.

Of the career soldiers I know, which are a fair number, as my Dad is one, they broke heavily for Kerry. The MSM does not report that most active duty personnel and many career soldiers are highly unsatisfied with Bush's leadership.

The only military types I have witnessed backing Bush are older vets who are no longer active duty, and did not serve under Bush at any time. They may not have any idea how out of touch with reality our current CIC is. The exception is Vietnam vets. They, in my experience, prefer Kerry.


One complaint I have heard from all walks, branches, and enlistment status is that soldiers and vets resent what Bush's policies are doing to veterans benefits.

Of course, it really says something that we have to poll soldiers ourselves to find out what they think because the media won't tell us.

[adolfo]

19. Is it considered Public Record?

If it is a public record then we should demand the results and have the courts fine/discipline any official that stands in the way.

[Vektor]

21. I'm not sure how that works, but -

-since we do have detailed figures on every other demographic known to man, by age, race, education level, geographic location, marital status, gender, whether they are a small business owner, retiree, student, etc, it stands to reason that the stats are available for the military, right? If the MSM can tell us how "white, suburban, married women with a four-year college degree" voted, they know how enlisted personnel voted too. Do you think those gather the statistics would take the time to find out how Muslim small business owners voted, and not how the U.S. military voted?

Unlikely.

[Igel]

37. The breakdowns result from exit poll numbers.

Believe the (final) exit polls, believe those numbers.

They didn't survey the military as a whole: they may have gotten partial results from military folk here, but don't think the pollsters even bothered to ask the question, "Are you in the military?" It would possibly have given an answer to how their vote broke, but not the overall percentage of their vote--and since the exit polls try to facilitate calling the election early, this isn't useful information. (And there's no guarantee that the breakdown for military folk voting stateside match the breakdown for those voting absentee from overseas.)

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. The overseas ballots were counted

in with all the other absentee ballots. Very few preciencts published stats that even show the oversea vote numbers separately.

Part of what happened is that they made it as easy as possible for the folks overseas to vote in 2004. People could either fax, email or send their ballot back via regular mail. The result was that most of the overseas ballot was recieved prior to election day.

From what I remember, in Florida, the ballots that were counted in after election day went about 50% Bush - 50% Kerry.

[loveable liberal]

18. Thanks! The lack of info seems to have answered my question.

[super simian]

20. Consider me officially....

.....NOT OVER IT! And, quite frankly, will never get over the blatant hijacking of America by the Bush Reign of Terror. How do they get away and keep getting away with it??

:wtf:

Wake up America!!!!

:nuke:

P.S. Thanks for your question. How DID the military vote?

:shrug:

[Wilms]

23. Here

http://www.nationaldefensecommittee.org/MAV2004.htm

[garybeck]

24. we will never know, but here are some numbers

that information is not made public. the closest you can come is in some areas, the overseas federal numbers are shown separately, and most of those are military. Here's New Jersey for example

[Wilms]

25. Gary, there's more detail in this recently released report.

http://www.nationaldefensecommittee.org/files/reports/LEO_Report_2004.pdf

[Corey_Baker08]

27. Not To Change The Subject

But isn't your picture trashing Al Gore and the Democratic Party when it says Sore Loserman?

[Wilms]

28. No. A picture of their vote being trashed.

Perhaps to subtle, though.

[Helga Scow Stern]

35. Cool sticker, Corey.

Nothing like planning ahead.

[Melissa G]

30. Hi Wilms, For those us with really tired eyes

who are having a tough time with 33 pages...could you post a short verbal summation?

[Wilms]

31. My Bad

That's not the vote, but a report on how the process worked. And poorly at that.

Says a lot about why we haven't seen numbers.


EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

24% Disenfranchisement Rate Is Unacceptable

The National Defense Committee (NDC) faxed a military/overseas absentee voting questionnaire to the
nation’s 7,838 local election offices (LEOs), and 761 of them returned completed questionnaires. Those LEOs
reported receiving 131,772 completed Federal Post Card Applications (FPCAs) from active duty service members,
spouses and adult children of service members, and overseas Americans. Only 4,363 of those absentee ballot
applications (4%) were rejected, either for lateness or for procedural deficiencies.

A total of 126,952 absentee ballots were mailed to the 131,772 FPCA applicants. Only 94,359 of those ballots
came back on time and were counted—meaning that 37,413 FPCA applicants were disenfranchised. That figure
includes marked ballots that came in on time but were rejected for procedural deficiencies. Also included are ballots
that came in late and ballots that never came back at all, as well as the 4,820 rejected applications. Finally, unmarked
ballots returned to the LEO, by the Postal Service, as “undeliverable” are included in the 37,413 disenfranchised
voters. The 761 LEOs also reported receiving 10,845 completed Federal Write-in Absentee Ballots (FWABs) and
counting 5,363 of them. For purposes of this report, we are assuming that persons who were among the 131,258
FPCA applicants cast the 5,363 counted FWABs. Adding in these counted FWABs reduces the overall
disenfranchisement rate to 24%, an unacceptably high rate.

Our report probably understates the problem, because we depend upon voluntary responses by LEOs. These
officials certainly understand that the NDC is not a government entity, and that they have no legal obligation to
complete and return our questionnaire. Those officials with good news to report (all the ballots came back on time
and were counted) are more likely to respond than those with bad news to report.

http://www.nationaldefensecommittee.org/files/reports/NDCmavexecsumfinal-33005.pdf

[Melissa G]

32. Thanks Wilms!

[garybeck]

33. yeah, I did see that but I don't see any numbers there

that reflect how the people voted. Am I missing something?

The original question posted was about who they voted for, not disenfranchisement, I think. Still that is a good report. I seem to remember seeing a 1-page summary too if people are interesed we can probably find it. I think it concluded that something like 35% of the military vote was trashed.

[Wilms]

34. You've got it right, Gary.

No tallies, just a survey.

But there may be a little more to this story.

These are dated stories, 2003.


Accenture elects VeriSign for e-voting
Troops overseas üto use online system for absentee ballots
http://www.washingtontechnology.com/news/18_15/emerging-tech/22023-1.html


Offshore company captures online military vote
By Lynn Landes
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/072103Landes/072103landes.html