18.44% Voter Turnout Increase from 2000 vs. 2004 GA... FISHY????

[rigel99]

I wonder if anyone calculated quite simply the difference in voter turnout in their states.. or the total increase in voters US wide?

I did a quick analysis on GA voter turnout and found it was 18.44% over 2000, and 7.26% over Cathy Cox's predicted voter turnout.. again extremely high...

PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES
Votes Cast Percentage
George Bush (R) 1,914,254 58.03%
John Kerry (D) 1,366,149 41.41%
Michael Badnarik (I) 18,387 0.56%

2004 Actual Difference % Diff.
Total Votes Cast 3,298,790
2004 Predicted 3,059,137 239,653 7.26%
2000 Actual 2,690,624 608,166 18.44%

This seems extraordinarily high to me... anyone can give either US wide or statewide voter turnout increases states by state, that would be extremely interesting to me...

thanks!

[rigel99]

1. Link sources

oh yeah, here are the link sources..
Source1: http://www.sos.state.ga.us/elections/election_results/2004_1102/summary.htm General Elections Summary
source2: http://www.sos.state.ga.us/pressrel/102604.htm Voter Turnout Predictions

[merwin]

2. What was the voting age population increase there?

Also, there was very heavy GOTV efforts all around the country, so that would have made the increase higher.

[rigel99]

3. Good question..

how do I figure that voting age population increase.. I guess
census data?

also, where can I get GOTV info. on where they spent most time/money/by state?

[NationalEnquirer]

49. Look at the birthrare in GA.

I dont know what it is, but I suspect its one of those damn bunny-f*cking red states, where they are breeding like weeds. If thats the case, I suppose this could account for the fact that there was substantial increase. STill, 18%? No way..

[rigel99]

51. OK let me SET THE RECORD Straight..

drove to Douglasville today....


black as night as black county, I totally love douglasville cause it's the next gwinnett.. the next big build those bullshit houses that cost nothing and grow like a banshee..

so guess what Bob akers told me today?

that douglasville has grown from 10K in the last election to greater than 40K voters in the 2004 election. can you realize what this means? 400 X (or 400 times the voters) of the previous elections.

I have the evidence of 4 X voter turnout. ok. so do you think Douglasville is Bush country.


I bought the precinct maps. And I ask a question of Cathy cox on thursday. what question should I ask? it's too easy. this proving the bush machine is full of crap. it's like taking candy from a baby.

please tell me there is something harder than this?

bob akers is a very honorable man, by the way, only made dishonorable by a diebold voting system. and in 2006 Diebold gets the last laugh cause every county has to pay $92/Diebold machine as a warranty, and counties cannot afford another Bush Unfunded mandate...

great ideas that break down in practice, Bob's parting words..
he is a man of honor and I"m honored to have met him today.

god damn these fucking electronic machines that make fools of honorable men?!!!! and makes obsessive, those who want to prove their falsehood...

[NationalEnquirer]

54. I was suckered by the evoting too.

Happens to the best of us..

[TruthIsAll]

4. Watch close: 59% of new voters to Kerry. Now you see it, now you don't.

	2000	2004	Pct	2000	Pct	2000	Pct	2004	Pct	2004	Pct	2004	chg
State	Votes	Votes	Chg	Bush	Vote	Gore	Vote	Bush	Vote	Kerry	Vote	Bush	Kerry
Total	104,339	122,171	17.1%	50,456	47.87%	51,000	48.38%	62,029	50.77%	59,026	48.31%	2.90%	-0.07%
(in thousands of votes)

HI	365	429	17.6%	138	37.79%	205	56.28%	194	45.26%	232	54.01%	7.47%	-2.28%
RI	405	436	7.6%	131	32.23%	250	61.59%	169	38.77%	260	59.57%	6.54%	-2.02%
NJ	3,168	3,610	14.0%	1,284	40.54%	1,789	56.47%	1,668	46.21%	1,911	52.95%	5.66%	-3.52%
AL	1,652	1,883	13.9%	941	56.97%	693	41.92%	1,176	62.49%	694	36.86%	5.52%	-5.06%
TN	2,063	2,437	18.1%	1,062	51.46%	982	47.58%	1,384	56.80%	1,036	42.53%	5.33%	-5.05%

CT	1,442	1,579	9.5%	561	38.92%	816	56.61%	694	43.94%	857	54.31%	5.02%	-2.30%
NY	6,755	7,389	9.4%	2,403	35.58%	4,108	60.81%	2,963	40.10%	4,314	58.39%	4.52%	-2.42%
OK	1,219	1,464	20.1%	744	61.08%	474	38.92%	960	65.57%	504	34.43%	4.49%	-4.49%
MA	2,669	2,905	8.9%	879	32.92%	1,616	60.58%	1,074	36.97%	1,804	62.09%	4.05%	1.51%
WV	643	756	17.6%	336	52.36%	295	45.98%	424	56.06%	327	43.20%	3.71%	-2.78%

DE	326	375	15.2%	137	42.16%	180	55.29%	172	45.77%	200	53.36%	3.61%	-1.93%
LA	1,741	1,939	11.4%	928	53.30%	792	45.52%	1,102	56.85%	820	42.31%	3.54%	-3.21%
UT	754	927	22.9%	515	68.32%	203	26.93%	664	71.64%	241	26.03%	3.32%	-0.90%
AZ	1,513	2,013	33.1%	782	51.67%	685	45.31%	1,104	54.87%	894	44.40%	3.19%	-0.91%
KS	1,058	1,188	12.3%	622	58.84%	399	37.75%	736	62.00%	435	36.62%	3.17%	-1.13%

NE	690	777	12.6%	434	62.86%	232	33.58%	513	65.98%	254	32.72%	3.12%	-0.86%
FL	5,923	7,604	28.4%	2,913	49.18%	2,912	49.17%	3,965	52.14%	3,584	47.13%	2.96%	-2.04%
KY	1,535	1,796	17.0%	872	56.86%	639	41.63%	1,069	59.55%	713	39.69%	2.69%	-1.95%
MD	2,013	2,384	18.4%	814	40.42%	1,146	56.91%	1,025	42.98%	1,334	55.97%	2.56%	-0.94%
IN	2,166	2,468	13.9%	1,246	57.51%	902	41.64%	1,479	59.95%	969	39.26%	2.44%	-2.37%

MO	2,340	2,731	16.7%	1,190	50.86%	1,111	47.49%	1,456	53.30%	1,259	46.10%	2.44%	-1.39%
CA	10,847	12,392	14.2%	4,567	42.11%	5,861	54.03%	5,510	44.46%	6,745	54.43%	2.36%	0.40%
GA	2,549	3,299	29.4%	1,420	55.69%	1,116	43.78%	1,914	58.03%	1,366	41.41%	2.34%	-2.37%
AR	909	1,056	16.1%	473	52.02%	423	46.50%	573	54.26%	469	44.40%	2.24%	-2.10%
NM	594	756	27.2%	286	48.18%	287	48.24%	377	49.84%	371	49.05%	1.66%	0.80%

PA	4,870	5,766	18.4%	2,281	46.84%	2,486	51.04%	2,794	48.46%	2,938	50.96%	1.62%	-0.08%
IL	4,712	5,275	11.9%	2,019	42.86%	2,589	54.94%	2,346	44.46%	2,892	54.82%	1.61%	-0.12%
MN	2,405	2,823	17.4%	1,110	46.15%	1,168	48.58%	1,347	47.71%	1,445	51.20%	1.57%	2.61%
TX	6,371	7,410	16.3%	3,800	59.64%	2,434	38.20%	4,527	61.09%	2,833	38.23%	1.45%	0.03%
MI	4,208	4,838	15.0%	1,953	46.42%	2,170	51.58%	2,314	47.83%	2,479	51.25%	1.41%	-0.34%

WI	2,574	2,993	16.3%	1,237	48.06%	1,243	48.28%	1,478	49.38%	1,490	49.76%	1.32%	1.48%
IA	1,302	1,505	15.6%	634	48.71%	639	49.03%	752	49.96%	742	49.29%	1.24%	0.26%
MS	986	1,138	15.5%	573	58.12%	405	41.05%	673	59.10%	457	40.13%	0.97%	-0.92%
VA	2,714	3,193	17.6%	1,437	52.96%	1,217	44.85%	1,717	53.77%	1,455	45.56%	0.81%	0.71%
SC	1,372	1,616	17.8%	786	57.30%	566	41.23%	938	58.06%	662	40.96%	0.76%	-0.27%

WA	2,460	2,857	16.2%	1,109	45.08%	1,248	50.73%	1,305	45.67%	1,510	52.86%	0.59%	2.13%
AK	275	312	13.3%	167	60.84%	79	28.71%	191	61.22%	111	35.61%	0.38%	6.89%
DC	201	227	13.2%	18	9.01%	172	85.72%	21	9.37%	203	89.43%	0.36%	3.72%
ND	280	313	11.9%	175	62.53%	95	34.08%	197	62.86%	111	35.50%	0.33%	1.42%
OH	4,655	5,625	20.8%	2,351	50.51%	2,186	46.96%	2,860	50.84%	2,741	48.73%	0.33%	1.77%

NH	562	676	20.3%	274	48.67%	266	47.38%	331	48.99%	341	50.35%	0.32%	2.97%
OR	1,511	1,828	20.9%	714	47.22%	720	47.66%	867	47.42%	943	51.60%	0.21%	3.94%
CO	1,713	2,128	24.2%	884	51.58%	738	43.09%	1,101	51.76%	1,002	47.08%	0.18%	4.00%
NV	597	826	38.4%	302	50.55%	280	46.93%	419	50.70%	397	48.09%	0.14%	1.16%
ME	644	741	15.1%	287	44.53%	320	49.71%	330	44.58%	397	53.57%	0.05%	3.87%

NC	2,889	3,501	21.2%	1,631	56.46%	1,258	43.54%	1,961	56.02%	1,526	43.59%	-0.44%	0.05%
WY	213	243	14.0%	148	69.44%	60	28.39%	168	69.00%	71	29.13%	-0.44%	0.74%
ID	488	598	22.7%	337	69.06%	139	28.42%	409	68.39%	181	30.26%	-0.67%	1.85%
MT	402	450	12.1%	240	59.78%	137	34.13%	266	59.07%	174	38.57%	-0.72%	4.43%
SD	310	388	25.4%	191	61.61%	119	38.39%	233	59.91%	149	38.44%	-1.70%	0.06%

VT	289	311	7.5%	120	41.42%	149	51.53%	121	38.98%	184	59.22%	-2.44%	7.68%
	

[rigel99]

6. Great chart.. it's really fairly stunning the level

of deception they continue to get away with...

but time is soon coming for a reckoning.. I have so much data , enough to sink a ship.... thanks for chart Truthisall...

[Peace Patriot]

15. TruthIsAll, I wish you would supply a little more text/words explanation.

I'm not a mathematician, and my eyes glaze over when I see a lot of numbers, as above, and my brain freezes up, and my Animus whispers insistently in my ear, "No, you cannot understand this. Never. Forget it." I do try, though. Anyway, those figures along the top that end with "2004 Bush 2.90%," and "chg Kerry -0.07%," are they the totals, the averages of all the states? (It is confusing that they run along the top.) And if you could give just a word or two explaining the more cryptic column heads (f.i., "chg Kerry"), I would be grateful.

Hawaii is shocking. Remember Dick Cheney's odd trip to Hawaii two days before the election? I've often wondered about that (i.e., various election fraud/coup scenarios).

Kerry not only got 59% of the new voters in the nat'l exit poll, he had a 57% advantage in new Democratic voter registrations, who, to believe Bush won, you must believe all flocked to the Democratic Party to register and vote for Bush, urged on by their Democratic friends, family, co-workers, and Democratic grass roots volunteers, saying things like, "A hundred thousand dead in Iraq doesn't matter. Torture doesn't matter. Lies don't matter. The destruction of Social Security doesn't matter. Grand theft doesn't matter. Federal deficit doesn't matter. Prince Bandar doesn't matter. Tax cuts for the rich are great. Vote for Bush!"

Like that. Red Queen commanding the Cards to paint the white roses red. (We're through the Looking Glass for sure.)

-----

I'm having even more trouble understanding Rigel99's numbers.

[TruthIsAll]

41. Here are some explanations ( a little late)

	2000	2004	Pct	2000	Pct	2000	Pct	2004	Pct	2004	Pct	2004	chg
State	Votes	Votes	Chg	Bush	Vote	Gore	Vote	Bush	Vote	Kerry	Vote	Bush	Kerry
Total	104,339	122,171	17.1%	50,456	47.87%	51,000	48.38%	62,029	50.77%	59,026	48.31%	2.90%	-0.07%
(in thousands of votes)

THESE ARE WEIGHTED AVERAGES AND TOTALS FOR ALL THE STATES.
FOR EXAMPLE: KERRY% = 48.38% = 59026/122171

INCREASE IN VOTERS = 17.1% = (122171 -104339)/104339

KERRYS % CHANGE FROM GORE IN 2OOO: -.07% = 48.31%-48.38%
BUSH CHANGE FROM 2000: 2.90% = 50.77% - 47.87%

[berniew1]

5. Georgia's elections have been rigged for at least 8 years now

Lots of the main office elections have been totally bogus/rigged
as shown by poll and exit poll data

2004 EIRS
Georgia TS & DT & Suppr http://www.flcv.com/claytong.html
http://www.flcv.com/georgia.html

[KaliTracy]

7. Ohio went from 63% (2000 ) to 71% in 2004 but lost over 900 precincts

from 1998 to 2000.
(13,079 precincts in 1998 to 12,151 precincts in 2000 (no precinct data for 1999)

2000
total number of precincts….. 12,151
total registered voters………7,535,188
total people voting…….…….4,795,989
turnout………………………...63.6%


2004
total number of precincts….. 11,366 (- 785 from 2000)
total registered voters………7,974,779 (+ 439,591 from 2000)
total people voting…….…….5,722,391 (+ 906,402)
turnout………………………...71.76%


What this Doesn’t tell you, though – is that until 2000 – Ohio had over 70% turnout from 1980-1992.

In 1996 they had 67% turnout – and when Blackwell came into office in 1998, precincts were deleted in by over 900 It is my theory (and only a theory) – that Ohio had such a “low turnout” in 2000 because of these precinct changes, and that Ohio had disenfranchised voters who just decided not to vote rather than stand in long lines, and that Florida overshadowed these problems.

For the 2004 election cycle they got rid of more precincts, even while adding more registered voters – stating “low” voting numbers and that electronic voting machines would make things go faster (but they never implemented them) – when statistically, it had always been 70% or better voter turnout for general elections for over 20 years. I haven’t had the time to research this. It’s just my gut feeling, that’s all.

2000 Districts over 80% None

2000 Districts over 75% 1
Mercer
total number of precincts….. 40
total registered voters………25,079
total people voting…….…….18.848
turnout………………………...75.2%

*****

2004 Districts at 80% or higher 2
Shelby
total number of precincts….. 35
total registered voters………28,460
total people voting…….…….123,287
turnout………………………...81.82%

Delaware
total number of precincts….. 123
total registered voters………100,676
total people voting…….…….81,175
turnout………………………...80.63%

2004 Districts at 75% or higher (26)
Wayne
total number of precincts….. 97
total registered voters………69,797
total people voting…….…….52,695
turnout………………………...75.50%

Warren
total number of precincts….. 157
total registered voters………125,165
total people voting…….…….95,512
turnout………………………...76.31%

Union
total number of precincts….. 46
total registered voters………30,200
total people voting…….…….22,911
turnout………………………...75.86%

Tuscarawas
total number of precincts….. 81
total registered voters………55,656
total people voting…….…….43,760
turnout………………………...78.63%

Summit
total number of precincts….. 475
total registered voters………368,858
total people voting…….…….291,735
turnout………………………...77.75%

Trumbull
total number of precincts….. 274
total registered voters………142,436
total people voting…….…….110,747
turnout………………………...77.75%

Scioto
total number of precincts….. 106
total registered voters………48,005
total people voting…….…….,36,043
turnout………………………...75.08%

Preble
total number of precincts….. 45
total registered voters………28,137
total people voting…….…….21,559
turnout………………………...76.62%

Putnam
total number of precincts….. 35
total registered voters………24,579
total people voting…….…….19,169
turnout………………………...77.99%

Pickaway
total number of precincts….. 53
total registered voters………30,045
total people voting…….…….23,079
turnout………………………...76.81%

Muskingum
total number of precincts….. 85
total registered voters………51,552
total people voting…….…….39,566
turnout………………………...76.75%

Noble
total number of precincts….. 27
total registered voters………8,879
total people voting…….…….6,794
turnout………………………...76.52%

Ottawa
total number of precincts….. 78
total registered voters………30,334
total people voting…….…….23,468
turnout………………………...77.37%

Monroe
total number of precincts….. 29
total registered voters………10,350
total people voting…….…….7,989
turnout………………………...77.19%

Madison
total number of precincts….. 44
total registered voters………23,183
total people voting…….…….17,784
turnout………………………...76.71%

Henry
total number of precincts….. 33
total registered voters………19,685
total people voting…….…….15,405
turnout………………………...78.26%
Hamilton
total number of precincts….. 1,013
total registered voters………573,612
total people voting…….…….433,063
turnout………………………...75.50%

Geauga
total number of precincts…..96
total registered voters………65,396
total people voting…….…….51,059
turnout………………………...78.08%

Green
total number of precincts….. 142
total registered voters………105,079
total people voting…….…….80,602
turnout………………………...76.71%

Fulton
total number of precincts….. 35
total registered voters………28,561
total people voting…….…….22,232
turnout………………………...77.84%

Fairfield
total number of precincts….. 118
total registered voters………91,498
total people voting…….…….68,742
turnout………………………...75.13%

Coshocton
total number of precincts….. 43
total registered voters………22,679
total people voting…….…….17,636
turnout………………………...77.76%

Crawford
total number of precincts….. 46
total registered voters………29,591
total people voting…….…….22,289
turnout………………………...75.32%

Champaign
total number of precincts….. 29
total registered voters………25,376
total people voting…….…….19,081
turnout………………………...75.19%

Clark
total number of precincts…..100
total registered voters………89,721
total people voting…….…….70,124
turnout………………………...78.16%

Belmont
total number of precincts….. 83
total registered voters………44,231
total people voting…….…….34,095
turnout………………………...77.08%
.
******

1996 Districts at 80% or higher (0}
1996 Districts at 75% or higher (67% total voter turnout) (2)
Putnam
total number of precincts….. N/A
total registered voters………21,976
total people voting…….…….16,593
turnout………………………...75.50%

Allen
total number of precincts….. N/A
total registered voters………60,170
total people voting…….…….44,636
turnout………………………...74.13% (closest to 75)


*****

1992
number of precincts 13,738
number of electors voting 5,043,094
Number of registered voters 6,536,936
Voter Turnout 77.14%

Precinct information not available.

From Ohio Secretary of State website http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/11-02-04.htm

edited to add link

[BushSpeak]

10. KaliTracy, here's a link that confirms your suspicions

I too was wondering how much Blackwell has influenced the vote in Ohio and how many of the minority vote suppression tactics were used in past elections.

Precinct reduction in minority areas is one, but I have a gut feeling that many more people showed up at the polls, but their votes weren't counted.

Anyway, here is a link to an fantastic article that confirms your suspicions backed up by the numbers.

If you find any more info on the impact of precinct suppression, please forward. TIA

Questioning Ohio

"Of Ohio’s 88 counties, 20 suffered a significant reduction — shutting at least 20 percent (or at least 30) of their precincts. Most of those counties have Republicans serving as Board of Elections director, including the four biggest: Cuyahoga, Montgomery, Summit, and Lucas.

Those 20 counties went heavily to Gore in 2000, 53 to 42 percent. The other 68 counties, which underwent little-to-no precinct consolidation, went exactly the opposite way in 2000: 53 to 42 percent to Bush.

In the 68 counties that kept their precinct count at or near 2000 levels, Kerry benefited more than Bush from the high turnout, getting 24 percent more votes than Gore did in 2000, while Bush increased his vote total by only 17 percent.

But in the 20 squeezed counties, the opposite happened. Bush increased his vote total by 22 percent, and Kerry won just 19 percent more than Gore in 2000.

If the reduced number of precincts in those counties accounts for the difference, it cost Kerry about 45,000 votes."

[KaliTracy]

11. thanks for that link - I've sent some of this stuff to some media sources

but not the right ones. I'm glad though some of this stuff is coming out. And I agree, it wasn't only supression.

In my District (Bulter County) -- I had the privelege of having LOTs of punch card machines (estimate over 24 just in a 2 mile strip) -- but was surprised that we didn't even make it to the 75% mark of voter turnout -- but I think there must have been precincts that weren't so lucky as us, as a whole contigent of people were at the Jackson Rally on January 3rd from Butler county. I didn't get a chance to talk with them, though.

[berniew1]

22. Is one of points here that this made trips to poll too long for Dems?

[KaliTracy]

23. well, when you have 2-4 hour waits, yes, I think the point is that poll

lines were too long -- there was a video of that day where people stood in line for over an hour, went into an area where multiple precincts were, and found out that their precinct wasn't in the line they were at, it was across the street. So they'd have to do the whole thing all over again, if they did it. Many of them did. Many didn't.

http://460design.net/ohio/

Also the same thing about multiple precincts in one area, if they waited in line, then went to the wrong table (A-3 instead of A-7 for example), they were told they had to get in the long line and start over, not simply move over to A-7.

There was another really good video of clips which showed an above air shot of people waiting in Ohio. Go to Gary's Solarbus site here http://www.solarbus.org/election/links.shtml and Click on the title Election Fraud Video. (there are other places that have this/host this -- it's the one I could remember right now. Faye helped put this together with someone else.)

I had no problems in my precinct -- over 24 machines were available in a 2 mile strip and there were MANY more throughout our neighborhood. No wait. Not more than 10-15 minutes for my DH and my in-laws (same district, different precinct) later in the day. Though in other parts of Butler county this wasn't the case -- and I didn't even know about this until the 3rd of January at the Jackson Rally.

Again, just a theory.

[BushSpeak]

Long trips is a minor point.

Hi berniew1,

If my memory is good, I believe you had a lot excellent posts on election fraud in Ohio.

In this case, the mains consequences were voter confusion and long lines due to many more voters for the same number of machines.

Many voters were not informed where their new polling place was. Thus running around in circles for hours. This all links to Blackwell's edict that a ballot (provisional or otherwise) had to be cast in the proper precinct, wherever the hell it is located.

[berniew1]

45. Not only Congress redistricting but precinct redistricting for political g

gain by those in control- to make sure they stay in control
But doesn't that mean we don't have a democracy anymore?
Majority doesn't rule if there's a way to exclude counting votes of many who would vote for change.

[berniew1]

46. Is your point that bigger precincts in minority areas make it harder to vo

vote??

[berniew1]

47. Did someone find a web site with other states 2000 & 2004 turnouts?

[KaliTracy]

48. bernie1 take a look at this archived thread. the reason it states "voter

fraud" is because I was repeating what someone had posted earlier that day. Note: There was an error in my quick math which I corrected later in a post after it was pointed out to me.

So, in a nutshell - yes, bigger precincts with less machines make it harder to vote.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=232241

[rigel99]

12. This is excellent data...

Your OH data is brilliant.. I will spend time reading it this weekend...
So basically
2000 63.6% and 2004 71.76% DIFF. is 8.16% Difference..

well that seems in line with Cox's prediction of 72% would have been a 7.26% difference, what happened was an 18.44% difference..

WHERE DID THAT EXTRA 11% come from... ??? and more importantly how do we know those many folks actually voted? or was not machine malfunction or worse phantom added votes in the Bush column..

Folks, we should pursue this VOTER TURNOUT cause we have some anchors to judge it against.. meaning we get the extra voters counted per state and see if that adds up to the total # of extra voters listed nationally... and compare state by state the % difference from 2000. I think there were extra voters added per state.....

just another theory, but something getting some crunch time from me...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[keepthemhonest]

9. We know they are fishy

we looking over them still trying to find anything that would be admisable in court.What have you been doing?

[count_alucard]

17. 'admisable' in court? lolol

you mean 'admissible'. I see Rove doing even more laughing. Election lawsuits GO NOWHERE

[keepthemhonest]

19. What is lolol?

wow now I caught you making a mistake ,big deal.
we are the ones doing the laughing at any one who is negative. Negative people get no where.who cares what Rove is doing, are you two buddies or something? you seem to bring him up alot.

You still did not answer my question. What have you done to try resolve this matter? Not that I care what any associated with Rove thinks or anyone negative for that matter. some people are looking to legislative actions and some people are looking to legal actions and I support anyone doing anything to oppose this administration or election fraud.

[count_alucard]

21. do you call anyone you don't agree with

an associate of Rove's?

It's my opinion that lawsuits associated with election fraud will go NOWHERE, I still have a right to express an opinion here on DU don't I?

If being realistic is now labeled 'being negative', then the problem is not with me, but with dreamers.

I repeatedly said that John Kerry didn't have a 'covert' plan after he conceded, that Jan 6 would come and go and NOTHING would happen and that John Kerry would not even BE in Washington that day. I was correct 3 times.

I'm also correct when I say that election fraud lawsuits are a huge waste of time.

As for what I am doing, I am making sure right now I don't get fooled again by a fraudulent candidate like John Kerry, who promised to REPORT FOR DUTY but ran like a rabbit 10 hours after the polls were closed.

[keepthemhonest]

26. Well lets see you must have been signed in under a different

name here on DU
because according to your Profile You only just came on Jan 13,2005 so how could you have possibly told us three times what Kerry was going to do if you were not even a DU member at that time?I can't wait to hear the answer.

[count_alucard]

27. you should learn how to read

where did I say "I told DU 3 times?"

You will be shocked, but DU is not the only message board on line.

[keepthemhonest]

28. Why do we care ,here,

what conversion's you have had outside of here? Kicked out of that board for being yourself I presume.

[count_alucard]

29. I am still posting there

and here, and thank you for changing the subject after not being able to come up with an intelligent argument.

[keepthemhonest]

30. First of all,

you were the one changing the subject by pointing out spelling error's,I suppose you think that makes you superior.I have yet to see anything to show an intellectual argument about anything. Just Kerry bashing. I have seen your other "realistic" posts and it appears you have been bringing your reality , as you see it, to some of my respected friends as well. I won't be responding to your antics.

Enjoy your stay here at DU.

[count_alucard]

31. wrong again

I never changed the subject, I kept saying election lawsuits go nowhere. But you don't have an argument against that.

And I have more real, convincing reasons to do my 'Kerry bashing' than you do to defend him.

[rigel99]

13. HOLD ON...

Let me be clear.
1. I left my job to do this full time
2. waiting for ACLU to approve 1st lawsuit
3. found lawyer to proceed with 2nd lawsuit, now doing numerical analysis and 'discrepancy audits' to have reasons to get to next layer of data including the CD which we need to do a full audit
4. sent 2 batches of 159 faxes *by hand to all counties in GA
5. spoken by phone to over 60 of these counties and collecting A-H of the full DRE tapes to the ballot recaps to the provisional recaps, now collecting writein reports cause that's another way to anchor these numbers against those.... the problem is creating an audit when you have nothing you can trust
6. spent over $5,000 of my own money on paying for these open records
7. got the GFAF GA first amendment foundation to send me data on how to use ga. sunshine laws and write better open records requests
8. sent letters from me and citizen activists to cox's office, britt williams and diebold.. all of which are put online at www.countpaperballots.com
9. Captured voicemails proving that Diebold technicians and non-diebold technicians execute elections in certain counties, which according to GA election code is a misdemeanor for the elections officer...

when I put FISHY in there it was merely to get folks to respond... Not only do I know there was fraud in GA, I'm putting my heart and soul on the line to prove it... if you have detailed suggestions great please add them to this thread, we'd certainly prefer your positive suggestions and number crunching ideas....

The challenge I have now, is tons of data and no real idea who to hand it off to for number crunching... I believe the best route is for citizens to try to audit the elections and to video tape this farce.. which will happen this sunday....

any other ideas, I"m all for it.. but my VOTER TURNOUT analysis is plainly and simply to generate DOUBT in the mind of the judge... when I go before him.. to start off firing bullets, with all the problems I can build a story around, I"m off doing this analysis fulltime now....

[count_alucard]

18. oh sure your lawsuit should make Bush resign in disgrace!

ask Gore's advocates if any of their lawsuits went anywhere.

[Trish1168]

20. I appreciate your efforts

I wish you could win, but I feel like they've rigged the system at every turn.

I have faith and hope that the grassroots will demand vote reform in a state by state way.....that these guys will be shamed into changing the laws.

[FogerRox]

25. rigel99 I hear ya loud and clear--fight the good fight my man.

Roj ----workin on his own jihad---just as rigel99
is---

Peace rigel99 and good hunting

[rigel99]

33. roj my main main

you my main man! thanks roj...

with a little help, we can outfox (out feaux) those working hard to prevent election from being 'real'.....

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[skids]

24. Nationwide...

It depends if you are talking registration versus ballots cast, or just total number of ballots cast. The national average for the latter is easy, as about 16% more ballots were cast in 2004 than 2000.

It seems you have been pretty busy. You probably still are, but if you were to post a list of the data you have, some of the DU folks or maybe even the USCountVotes statisticians might be able to run through some of the numbers and tell you if anything they see is particularly strange. Especially, do you have precinct-by-precinct "Group" reports that separate out absentee/early ballots? Counts of provisional ballots by precinct?

And what form are each of the results in? Naturally the audit tapes from machines will be hardcopy, but are the results as well?

[rigel99]

34. THANKS for your good questions...Need Number Crunching..

I do need help from number crunchers.. all my data is in paper/hard copy form. Here's what I have collected for about 8 counties so far,

DRE Tapes (election summary and Accumulation Total)
Ballot Recap sheets (absentee, provisional DRE)
GEMS Reports (SOVC, Election Summary)
** asking for registration database per county
Write-In Report

the website countpaperballots.com will have the county data listed on the right hand side of the main homepage... sorry this site is so detailed, but it's more like a working webpage, as I have not advertised it formally yet. and will redesign before I do...

I'll put clinch county up for ya'll review.. because it's a small county. I just fax the data to get it in electronic form.. I know eventually I need to scan it in, but there are only so many hours in the day.....

look for clinch data sometimes tomorrow.. there should be some nuggets in that county to count!

[skids]

35. Some SOVCs available online.

I've managed to download digital (PDF SOVC) copies for four counties from the county websites for the 2004 general:

Chatham Glynn Gwinnett Lowndes

In addition I'm downloading SOVCs for the two elections which the GA sos has them posted for all counties (2004 primary and 2002 general)

Of course these will need to be doublechecked, but that should be done anyway and it is easier than dealing with OCRing hardcopies.

I'm actually still in the middle of writing code to deal with PDF SOVCs, but when I get done I should be able to create a spreadsheet for these four counties merging the elections data.

[keepthemhonest]

36. good job Skids

do you think we could use your spreadsheet? It would save us time from having to make one up ,time that could be used elsewhere.

[skids]

37. Certainly...

...when I get it done. I can also arrange to transfer what I downloaded to you whenever.

I did try poking around the SoS website to see if they had the SOVC files online just hidden, but had no luck.

There may be a few more counties that have posted SOVCs but are hiding from google. If I have some spare time I'll look more thoroughly.

[keepthemhonest]

38. This is great

We could certainly use more people looking at the numbers here in georgia.Since we are all Diebold here,this should be the most obvious place to find mistakes.

[skids]

39. Well...

I haven't seen anything that would convince me fraud in Deibold counties was more common than in ES&S or (proportionally) any of the other vendors.

But being all Deibold does keep things simple, as you don't have to deal with as many differences in the reporting formats/standards etc.

At the same time, though, it also means there is no other system to compare things with. So a large-scale operation that hit everywhere in the state would not leave telltale inconsistancies when compared side-by-side.

We'll just have to see what can be dug up.

[keepthemhonest]

40. Yes keep digging

Maybe they covered their tracks but I hope there is something obvious. I hope we get our hands on a copy of the disc so we can see for ourselves instead of searching through some of the secondary and tertiary data. Plenty of mistakes seen already with that. Good luck in your search

[rigel99]

42. Your help is awesome...

SKIDS... you're the best...

send the spreadsheets to [email protected], I'll get them to keepthemhonest and others on our audit committee... we are glad you did chatham and gwinnett, but cobb has alot online and if you can do the PDF conversion for that county too, that's awesome.. their website is
www.cobbelections.org

I tried to do that PDF conversion myself and it was ugly, had to put in into word, create a text to table and then word to text file then into excel and then I lost so much data/columnar formatting.... aaaccckkkk...
you are the best!

thanks!
we are getting more data everyday... I will be posting as soon as I can some smaller counties.....the DRE tapes are worth everyone taking a look. GOOD NEWS. I got a county admitting there are no real ballots but that they are in the 'DRE machines PCMCIA cards' which should be justification for us to get access to the CD that captures that data in Court... the ballot images are a critical 2nd source of the data we need to compare to the tertiary source of data in form of reports.... in other words.. more fodder for a judge today!

[skids]

43. OK, it'll be a little while.

I had coder's block today, so I didn't get much done. DL'd Cobb;
thanks for the link.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[rigel99]

44. FRAMING THE FRAUD

FOLKS.... I have an idea.. I'd like to start framing the terms we use in the Diebold world to explain the data we've collected from our open records request..

Let's frame that Diebold creates 2 kinds of fraud:

INTENTIONAL
and
UNINTENTIONAL

These fall into these kinds of categories:

INTENTIONAL:
1. Vote rigging by changing the software Setup files to default to certain candidates (This causes the vote to change to Bush even when voters choose a straight Democratic ticket- documented well in their Georgia EIRS system)
2. Diebold software changing the intent of the voter from touchscreen enroute to PCMCIA card
3. Changes in data 'after' PCMCIA cards dumped to CD
4. Shaving of votes (percentage creep by literally placing the voter data in the wrong database fields)
5. Modification of election totals enroute (or at the SOS office, or at KSU center for elections)
6. Same person certifying multiple precincts or other 'fishy' activities
7. denying provisionals or absentee voters to have their votes count for minor technical reasons versus substantive ones (i.e. showed up at wrong precinct, etc.)
8. Using stolen Diebold equipment or hacking into the servers where Diebold data is stored using networking protocols of Diebold to modify/manipulate the totals and outcomes.

UNINTENTIONAL:
1. A Diebold technician or worse yet, a technical consultant, makes a mistake like forgets to reset the database to 0 before an election (such as Cobb County where they had to 'recertify' their election because of this very problem.... what's so hard to believe is that this database tweaking is all we have left of our votes.. how do we know their fix of the mistake did not also create MORE mistakes? Where is the citizen counting in all of this?
http://www.cobbelections.org/results/pdf/nov05-02/nov05-02Explanation.pdf
2. User Fills out wrong #'s from DRE screens to Ballot Recap sheets (DRE, Absentee or provisional)
3. Accidental 'resetting' of the system counter by a novice user
4. Mistyping the total registered voters (we have evidence of this in Clinch county), making it unclear which is correct # of registered voters
5. Corruption of database files from viruses or other network problems
6. Error in computer (Faulty memory, etc.)
7. Persistent problems with Cards being cast with no results (making those votes in 'limbo' with no idea if they are partial votes , representing a voter's intent or just a computer glitch )
8. No Votes/Undervotes not properly characterized by the computer (this is a whole new theory I have that what Diebold calls a novote or undervote is not same as what SOS calls one), and how these get created, etc.
*** the list goes on....

When talking about DRE results.. let's talk about the 3 forms of data.

PRIMARY data (REAL and Computerized) (is the vote as registered on the touchscreens) as primary. The REAL version is the vote as shown on the touchscreen before hitting cast ballot. Nowhere is this data, the actual screen contents captured. The Computerized version is a capture of the fields entered, and a "ballot image" is stored on the PCMCIA cards, but this is not guaranteed to accurately capture the voter's intent. This computerized version is never released to the public and requests to access this data have been denied.

SECONDARY Data (this is the DRE Tape and all associated 'Election Summary' , SOVC Statement of Votes Cast, etc.) this is the database data (the fields voters chose on the touchscreen) reformulated by a software program into a 2nd form of the data. This requires you trust the software program to tabulate the data accurately. Incidentally, in the Diebold system, there are about 10 forms of Secondary Data...
1. GEMS REPORT -Election Summary (Totals)
2. GEMS REPORT - Election Summary (precincy by precinct)
3. GEMS REPORT - SOVC Statement of Votes Cast
4. DRE Tapes - Election Summary
5. DRE Tapes - Accumulation Totals
6. Write-In Report - (one includes only Valid Write-Ins, and the other includes Valid and Invalid write-ins)
7. County Website - Election Summary as listed on the website (this may be different than #1 depending on when you asked for a certain report and how intelligent they were in giving you the proper certified report)
8. SOS Website - This is yet another tally of the software (in 2 basic forms, for each race a statewide total, and for each county a race by race total)
9. BALLOT RECAP Sheets - (For DRE , Absentee and Provisional)
10. Voter Registration Databases (which may or may not match the registered voter totals entered into the DRE systems)

If I forgot something, please give a shout!.....

My challenge is to create a master AUDIT spreadsheet cross checking numbers all across the spectrum, highlighting the forms of FRAUD it indicates.... wish me luck, ideas welcome!

[berniew1]

50. Does anyone know quick site to find voter turnouts by State in 2004 and 00

how did other states turnout compare to Georgia's?

[rigel99]

52. easiest case is voter turnout for 2000

as a benchmark.

it will surprise you that so many democrats TURNED OUT ,
and so many votes got either suppressed or 'switched'.

What do you ask someone who perpetrated the fraud.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING FUCKING WITH MY DEMOCRACY...

sorry.. i'm just a little angry tonite.....

where's malcolm X when you need him... by any means necessary kind of thing?

[KaliTracy]

53. Need to look by precinct, unfortunately. Ohio had several close to or over

100% turn out (still waiting for explainations on that, though they might have been stated and I missed it). I think when you look at that USA map that is "all red" with fringe blue states its a misnomer. And IF something happened, it wouldn't have happened in every precinct -- but select ones. That's why it was so frustrating during the Ohio Recount that almost all of the districts did not choose a true random 3% sample. Even if the majority of these BOEs is on the up and up it doesn't bolster confidence when they all refuse to provide the information needed to make honest assessments of the voting patterns.